whatsinaname
Innovator
Car & Bike When buying car, should one go for loan even when able to pay full ?
- Thread starter raksrules
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Being.smart
Galvanizer
None of them reports it, as they don't want to loose their customer
. This is the first thing i always confirm before putting hard cash down, also my friend owns 3 - automobile showroom, the same has been confirmed by him, they didn't even ask to furnish PAN detailsMy friend is waiting to buy an car in pure cash. First of all, he thought he'd buy from 3rd party as they won't ask for PAN.
Up on researching, i found that many dealers won't ask for PAN, though some do and you know how to deal with them
edge111hussain
Forerunner
None of them reports it, as they don't want to loose their customer
Bro aint you registering the vehicle? Isnt it an asset? Aint all your details going to the RTO? Dont you purchase an insurance cover for the car? Dont you pay yearly premiums? Dont you give an address for car registering and insurance? Do you do all of this using your original name and proper residential address or you use a fake name and fake details? Being smart, some common sense bro...
There you go, your data has already gone through and its recorded, i.e reported.
Being.smart
Galvanizer
so do you think that IT guys will check a run on each person buying car ?? , in India approx 1 lac car is sold each month, and are being registered, and don't count how many insurance gets renewed every month. So you think that IT guys will run a check on name and address instead of PAN number ??, and how they are going to differentiate different person with same names, i think this is the only reason why PAN has been introduced, to keep track on someone's financial transactions.
The same goes with buying gold
abracadabra
Galvanizer
hotshot05
Herald
If the IT people have access to the RTO database(I find it very unlikely that it is still paper based. Atleast in the metro and Tier 2 cities, it will be computerised), it will be very easy to set a trigger/filter. The high value transactions will be flagged automatically.so do you think that IT guys will check a run on each person buying car ?? , in India approx 1 lac car is sold each month, and are being registered, and don't count how many insurance gets renewed every month. So you think that IT guys will run a check on name and address instead of PAN number ??, and how they are going to differentiate different person with same names, i think this is the only reason why PAN has been introduced, to keep track on someone's financial transactions.
The same goes with buying gold
The same thing happens in the banking system. No one needs to sort through each and every transaction. Just set a trigger for transactions above a certain amount and they will be reported to the required department automatically.
Being.smart
Galvanizer
Bank does work on PAN system
, filtering transaction is very easy via RTO online db, but how they come to know which is loan/check/cash/DD/ Hawala / kala-money payment, from registration / insurance ,
First time u had posted something that has made me think over it..Bank does work on PAN system
Smart Boy
edge111hussain
Forerunner
Well if you had read above properly. Ill try to explain this in most simple terms to you. Hope u follow the link.Bank does work on PAN system
Anyways, again, only registrations of 10L + get flagged to start with.
Ur mode of payment is irrelevant here at this stage.
This is cross checked with your database, i.e the returns you have filed, ur it you pay etc.
If everything comes clean here, nothing is done, file closes. This is obviously done via filters and is not done manually.
Now for eg, you being smart decided to buy a car worth 15l and i bought the same priced car. But you bought it on a lumsum payment whilst i paid 30% and balance by bank loan. Here its assumed that banks checked all my documents hence im cleared and my file closes but u sir, u move on to the next stage.
Now its goes without saying that it would be foolish of anyone who is buying a 15l car to pay in cash and hence most people pay by cheque or DD. But as you mentioned ur friend takes cash and it doesnt get notified, lets assume u paid in full in cash to this friend of yours. Now he obviously has written in his books cash since he hasn't received a cheque or DD so he doesnt have a chq or DD no to add to database. Now this is where u Sir get flagged.
From here an IT officer gets ur entry and he manually cross checks you. If your IT returns show a 60 l income, its auumed ur clean and he closes ur file but say you have showed an income of 8 L, Whoooppsssss. 15l car with 8L PA income doesn't make any sense.
Im sure from here what happens next, u get the drift.
Hence people who file less returns show entries for eg, husband taking a cheque from wife, father, mother etc and puts it all into one a/c and pays to the dealer from that same a/c.
Im not saying that every single person who gets flagged gets into trouble, but this is how they easily identify you.
@Being.smart i could tell you how it works @ other transactions too.
Being.smart
Galvanizer
i am noob here, but can you please clear some doubts ?
1) Ur name A Hussain, my name A Hussain, both of us bought Audi A4/ Bmw 320d , 1000's other people are with name Hussain (Kids, Childs, old aged people, IT filers, non-IT Filers), so how the IT department will zero down on Hussain who has bought the car (untill and unless PAN is mentioned) ??, since there might be Hussain with 100 crore turnover, and many hussain's who never bothered to file ITR.
2) How does a person's car buying transaction can be linked with his/her transaction, bank note-down transaction and report to IT firm, but they don't note down whether the transaction is meant to buy car/flat/chaddi
3) Yes i do agree they might enter in their register as cash (in 99% case they adjust here and there), But in register also there will be only name and not PAN number, this is reason all dealers are supposed to furnish PAN details for cash transaction, so do you think, IT department will take a name and start searching his/her ITR history
, in extreme case if he decides then move to CASE 1, same loop repeats , what if the car is being gifted to someone and registered under his/her name * also forgot to mention one point, a dealer book is only checked if IT department raids him for not paying his income tax, sales tax properly.
hotshot05
Herald
I am still some years away from buying my own car. So do not know what details are provided during RTO registration and insurance sign up. But isn't the insurance premium based on the current valuation of the car?Bank does work on PAN system
Daya kuch to Gadbad Hai...
I assume CID may throw in some more light in this case
edge111hussain
Forerunner
* Yes, things are only checked if there is a raid or notice given. not otherwise. A dealer never faces a problem, not once. Because the price of the car is with all necessary taxes added to it, and till in his book of accounts, sales tally with Rs there can never be a problem for him.i am noob here, but can you please clear some doubts ?
1) Ur name A Hussain, my name A Hussain, both of us bought Audi A4/ Bmw 320d , 1000's other people are with name Hussain (Kids, Childs, old aged people, IT filers, non-IT Filers), so how the IT department will zero down on Hussain who has bought the car (untill and unless PAN is mentioned) ??, since there might be Hussain with 100 crore turnover, and many hussain's who never bothered to file ITR.
2) How does a person's car buying transaction can be linked with his/her transaction, bank note-down transaction and report to IT firm, but they don't note down whether the transaction is meant to buy car/flat/chaddi
3) Yes i do agree they might enter in their register as cash (in 99% case they adjust here and there), But in register also there will be only name and not PAN number, this is reason all dealers are supposed to furnish PAN details for cash transaction, so do you think, IT department will take a name and start searching his/her ITR history
* also forgot to mention one point, a dealer book is only checked if IT department raids him for not paying his income tax, sales tax properly.
1)The IT officer doesnt come in the picture unless there is a problem, thats when he checks and does an inquiry. This is all system generated and checked.
For RTO registration done by the individual or dealer, the individual has to give a proof of address that matches the address of your registration. This happens incase of dealership of honda, hyundai, maruti, VW, Skoda. These r the brands we have owned and their dealers have asked for specific address proof every-time.
Also when you file your returns at the end of the yr, you will have to mention where did 37 L that you happen to transfer from your account to xyz go.
Incase of cash, i dont know of any dealer or individual that has taken or given cash of that amount.
Incase of cheque or DD. No bank makes a DD of more than 1 lac without a cheque from the same account. And incase of cheque, every bank in India will flag a transaction of more than 2 lacs. Its a guideline that every bank has to follow.
So whilst you dont have to give a pancard for making a car purchase. It all links together.
2) Check your a/c statement. It will mention the name of transaction. Also say u wrote a cheque to me and handed it to me. I went and deposited the cheque. My banks not taking the cheque to your bank and asking for money. There is a process at place and every transaction is recorded. And all high value transactions are flagged.
To Understand how it works, try making a transaction of say 60,000 rs consequently for 5 days (ie more than 50k), someone from the bank will immediately call you asking for clarification of the transactions. If they fail to do so, RBI can and will really jack em up for waving away the money laundering guidelines.
3) Sir, if i can get my hands on your pan no. Forget pan no, if you invest in MF's and i get hold of your kyc no, within 2 mins a banker can remove your entire janam kundli. Now think what an IT officer is capable of.
In my ex work place a senior private banker was fired because he kept his draw unlocked for 2 days consequently. Why? cause in the draw was a clients a/c payee cheque and another clients pan card xerox. Banks and high end customers take these things very seriously.
rdst_1
Juggernaut
The only mistake over here is you are considering that bank is involved. I don't want to go OT here so I will stop now and so should others.
As being.smart mentioned, only a few dealers he knows will take payment as cash and they would certainly know how to make it work without anything coming back to the customer.
Party Monger
Juggernaut
The reason people buy them on Loan is Liquidity. Especially if you are in a business. That money will roll a hundred time before you pay it if you are in a fast turnover business or play smart. I have seen cases where the car instalment has roughly come from the money on loan and used in business. These are very less people, to be one you need to be smart and in the right business. Not only cars, but even home loans are used for business purposes all the time and earn a huge profit.
No one from Income tax is actively monitoring you. Cars are very popular now, its not the 90's. But yes, multiple cars or high value cars, above 20-25lacs raise a lot of eyebrows. Mostly since Indians are stingy and more over cars are really bad investments that lose value over time.
No one from Income tax is actively monitoring you. Cars are very popular now, its not the 90's. But yes, multiple cars or high value cars, above 20-25lacs raise a lot of eyebrows. Mostly since Indians are stingy and more over cars are really bad investments that lose value over time.
newuser990
Discoverer
If you havent provided PAN and paid all of it in cash then it is going to be difficult(not impossible) for IT dept to pin point you and then check your returns and expenditures.BUT the thing is "will any dealer accept 10L as cash payment and not ask for your PAN card?"....I don't think so.
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