WhiteHatJr got the twitter account of a suicidal employee blocked for tweeting about the working condition.


alekhkhanna

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Have been reading about these for a while.

Their recent actions are so scumworthy that I am surprised no legal action have been taken so far.

One of the recent recorded videos shows a computer teacher explaining what CLOUD is - "it is invisible like air. All your data goes to the air."
I would lose my cool if somebody taught this shit to my kids. These assholes don't deserve any money. The Ken also did an expose on how Byju sells it's subs by fear mongering the parents.
 

ssslayer

Well-Known Member
Adept
Govt can't do jackshit about such cases.
Whenever a firm/company/corporate expects you to put in 80 hours or work per week and no weekends or offs - it is a culture there.
And the employees are themselves to be blamed for all this. It is the massive competition internally within the employees that typically lead to such situations.

The usual thing is that in a large corporate the most competitive people with career prioritized, who are willing to lose everything else in life, rise up to the top. So CXO level person will be putting in 80 hours or even more (since they are connected even while taking a dump).
As you descend down the hierarchies, you will come across less competitive employees - and therefore a more rational sounding work-life balance.

In a startup kind of organization, there is very shallow hierarchy, and therefore the ground level employees are expected to put in as much passion, dedication and time as the Owner/CXO/Management. Now in usual established business (lets say a traditional shop), the employee pool have fixed priorities, and personal lives factor high up, even compromising on the pay, because the trade off is low. But in the "new sectors" where monies flow like the River Amazon, and the employees have large monetary incentive to get obsessed with their jobs, the culture changes.

What you must do? Change your organization and join the one that matches your life priorities.
 

dpandey

Well-Known Member
Adept
I don't know why you are even bringing up babus.
Wasn't she requesting government intervention? Check her tweets (that *you* posted). Here are some samples:

Requesting transparent investigation of all the harassing managers and team leaders in the company who is torturing and harassing at work, please @rprasad @india_doj @pmo @LabourMinistry and @CMOMaharashtra @whitehatjunior ...

Please take necessary action against @WhiteHatJr a company owned by #byjus founder @realkaranbajaj
its Exploiting employee and forcefully make work 15 hours every day for 7 days. its been night mare work req government for investigate @LabourMinistry


This is so bizarre I can't even think of a word to describe it. 'insubordination' comes to mind, but this is way beyond. No organization will tolerate this kind of behavior.
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran
So complaining to the govt against illegal working hours more than govt mandated limits is insubordination?
 

calvin1719

Well-Known Member
Disciple
This is so bizarre I can't even think of a word to describe it. 'insubordination' comes to mind, but this is way beyond. No organization will tolerate this kind of behavior.
To be frank, I find your analysis and views here to be so bizarre I can't find words to describe them.
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran
To be frank, I find your analysis and views here to be so bizarre I can't find words to describe them.
Look at it this way. He's not the only person who thinks this way in our country. There's definitely thousands more who think like him. At least thanks to him we're able to see how these people think.

Explains why shit like this is so common here.
_______________________________________________
There's this whole attitude like companies are doing their employees a big favor by giving them a job in the first place and a salary is just icing on the cake. It's just a modernized form of slavery.

Back in the day, slaves were given food shelter and clothing by their masters. Beatings etc. we're just part of the game. Hey they couldn't even get work elsewhere. So their masters were doing them a big favor. Beatings meh. Get the drift?
 

alekhkhanna

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Look at it this way. He's not the only person who thinks this way in our country. There's definitely thousands more who think like him. At least thanks to him we're able to see how these people think.

Explains why shit like this is so common here.
_______________________________________________
There's this whole attitude like companies are doing their employees a big favor by giving them a job in the first place and a salary is just icing on the cake. It's just a modernized form of slavery.

Back in the day, slaves were given food shelter and clothing by their masters. Beatings etc. we're just part of the game. Hey they couldn't even get work elsewhere. So their masters were doing them a big favor. Beatings meh. Get the drift?
Unfortunate outcome of overpopulation, too many "graduates" and lack of employment.
Someone will always be there to do the 15-18 hour workday even if others raise a voice.
I had a working holiday this week (took a week-long off due to Diwali - but had at least 10 hour long work days). When my manager, who is Australian, came to know that I was attending back to back meetings during my leave, he literally called me up asking not to do it since it's not setting a good precedent - but if I don't take the meetings, I'll be subtly given a jab/bad remark from the India side of things that I'm not a team player and am not available when others are, and that it's business critical to do these meetings.
It's a catch 22 situation.
Indians have the worst work ethic of most of the nations because they know they can get away with it as there's always someone else to do your job - maybe not so good, but you are always replaceable, and work life balance means jack shit.
Have seen great work cultures get "Indianised" as assholes manager have moved it and destroyed what it means to be a healthy workplace. There is a visible shift on how people do things when the company goes from caring about them to not giving two hoots. You can feel productivity waning.
Last year, said **** it and literally switched off my phone while on vacation so that nobody from work could come in contact and spoil it. Had already left instructions to other team mates in case emergencies arise. Extreme situation, but there wasn't a way around it.
And this is only going to go worse, thanks to the expectation of running "agile", like a "startup".
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran
Unfortunate outcome of overpopulation, too many "graduates" and lack of employment.

This is so true for so many of our problems.

Indians have the worst work ethic...
Many of my friends who worked in the US have mentioned this to me. It's the Indians who try to prove whatever by working excessive hours and spoiling the party for everyone. And the Indian managers are the worst. The 'firangs' are chill and aren't even asking for this.
 

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
What you must do? Change your organization and join the one that matches your life priorities.

This is the perfect suggestion. All those people who are comparing these jobs to slavery are also taking it too far. Some companies will inherently have a a very competitive structure where everyone is expected to care and derive pleasure from their work. If you are not of the same mindset you shouldn't continue working at such a place. Apparently Amazon too has had similar complaints made against their work culture and it all stems from Jeff Bezos apparently.
OTOH, there is the other end of the spectrum as well where people are very inefficient and still get paid like in most common IT companies like TCS, Infy etc.

FYI, my brother left his first job within 3 months because he wasn't comfortable with how less work he was being given. Such cases are there because some guys are very passionate about their work and there are a lot of guys like that out there and some companies only want employees like that. I find nothing wrong with it as long as you are not being forced to work in such a company.

As a dairy farmer, I expect my workers to be at work by 4am in freezing cold. People can call that inhumane as well, but that's what the job is. No one is forcing anyone to take that job but people still do due to the renumeration they get for such kind of work. Lots of Indians work 42 hours in a week for as low as 6k a month and that is why the basics such as food are so cheap in India. I am not saying that is right but in a country where there is no shortage of manpower, getting paid appropriately for manual labor or any sort of work is a distant dream and in most cases even unsustainable because of the low prices of our products.
 

Julian

om nom nom
Veteran
This is the perfect suggestion. All those people who are comparing these jobs to slavery are also taking it too far. Some companies will inherently have a a very competitive structure where everyone is expected to care and derive pleasure from their work. If you are not of the same mindset you shouldn't continue working at such a place. Apparently Amazon too has had similar complaints made against their work culture and it all stems from Jeff Bezos apparently.
OTOH, there is the other end of the spectrum as well where people are very inefficient and still get paid like in most common IT companies like TCS, Infy etc.

FYI, my brother left his first job within 3 months because he wasn't comfortable with how less work he was being given. Such cases are there because some guys are very passionate about their work and there are a lot of guys like that out there and some companies only want employees like that. I find nothing wrong with it as long as you are not being forced to work in such a company.

As a dairy farmer, I expect my workers to be at work by 4am in freezing cold. People can call that inhumane as well, but that's what the job is. No one is forcing anyone to take that job but people still do due to the renumeration they get for such kind of work. Lots of Indians work 42 hours in a week for as low as 6k a month and that is why the basics such as food are so cheap in India. I am not saying that is right but in a country where there is no shortage of manpower, getting paid appropriately for manual labor or any sort of work is a distant dream and in most cases even unsustainable because of the low prices of our products.
This is from your experience working in how many IT/ITES companies exactly?

Most companies are the same. It's a very small fraction that actually have good conditions. In fact, the bigger the company, the worse it is. But never seen on the outside. I've worked in a few BPO/ITES companies and have experienced first hand some of this ridiculous shit which no sane person would tolerate. And i've quit a couple jobs because i didn't wanna work for a-holes, not because the work was too hard. So where exactly is a person supposed to go and how many jobs will he change? Running away from a bad situation is not the answer. The problem must be solved, not avoided. And condoning companies will never solve it, just embolden them.

You're just taking working conditions from extremes of the spectrum and putting the onus completely on the employees. And if you can't believe the conditions amazon employees are working in, then there's clearly no point in discussing this any further with you.

And what's that in your last sentence? It's not right, BUT. There you have it...
 

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
You're just taking working conditions from extremes of the spectrum and putting the onus completely on the employees. And if you can't believe the conditions amazon employees are working in, then there's clearly no point in discussing this any further with you.

And what's that in your last sentence? It's not right, BUT. There you have it...

I am not putting the onus on anyone. I am just giving a reality check. As someone mentioned above, as long as someone is there to work in place of you, companies are going to have the upper hand. That's the main difference between overpopulated countries like India and US. And this cheap labor is one of the main reasons our IT jobs are sustainable. Most of our so called engineers are unemployable and many of those who are employed don't really care about their job and would like to get away with as little work they can do. This attitude is there in people across the spectrum, right from ones getting paid 6k a month to those getting paid 1L. At least it is understandable in people getting paid meagre wages.

Even I have 100s of friends working in IT companies and most of them are happy. I knew I couldn't survive in such a setup so never went for a job interview. You seem to be off similar disposition to me so finding a good place to work will definitely be difficult for you, but most people are willing to compromise and that's why our work cultures are like this.

Also, if you see this guy/gals posts, he/she has more to say than just work culture. Most of her posts are against the way the company is selling it's overhyped products when actually they have a very incompetent product as are the teachers who are teaching. But that is the story of every engineering college in India. And despite that everyone just wants an engineering degree. I used to take up this issue during college as well where the teaching standards were abysmal but just because the rest of the crowd was satisfied or did not care enough so my complaints had no worthwhile effect.

Same happens with me on road when I am the only one bothered enough to try and get others to follow the rules. Have had some pretty scary incidents because of this.

Unless the majority of population is going to be united against a cause, not much is going to change in India is what I have concluded from my experiences. And majority won't ever unite, especially in cases like these because most of the people working there would be incompetent and just thankful that they have a job and they will always keep pulling people like her down.

So yes, definitely one should fight and raise voice against such things but plan things a little better and garner some support inside the ranks first if they really want to fight and make a change and even then success won't be guaranteed.

I may sound defeatist but that's just what my experiences have taught me. Most of the humans are unredeemable, especially in India and I'd rather not waste my time any longer trying to 'sudharofy' 1.3billion of them.
 

iPwnz

Brutally Honest
Veteran
Just gonna leave this here without any comments.

Wow that's worse than I thought. I had no idea they gave him direct legal threats.
Unfortunate outcome of overpopulation, too many "graduates" and lack of employment.
Someone will always be there to do the 15-18 hour workday even if others raise a voice.
Might be OT but what Poonia said here is so true:
WhiteHatJr will just create a huge crowd of below-average coders who won't even be employable.
The same way we have many below average "engineers" whom many companies found to be unemployable. [Source: IndiaToday]
Many of our engineers and "business students" are simply not good enough.
I believe this is also the reason why our daily wage here is crap.
 
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red dragon

Justiceforall
Veteran
Shall I send this to Joshua Fluke? If motivated, he can call up the CEOs of these retched corporates. He is focused on India for now.
These things should stop. I have worked 100+ hours a week for months, but those were desperate times, needed desperate measures directly related to life or death. And I was paid insane amount of money.
How much these young people are getting 1-2L INR at most!! This is beyond ridiculous!!!
If a start up needs every employee to work 15 hours a day, close it down and put the owners in jail with hard labour.
Start ups my ass!! I know how most of them operate and how much they pay to the employees...but it's India, some educated people will praise these assholes after getting 80k INR salary a month ( 15 hours day)
This is worse than slavery. I would rather dig a ****ing hole for 15 hours and strike oil or gold or hope for it.
WTF is startup anyway..just another business where the owners dress like hipsters, drink the piss aka Starbucks coffee with their fancy MacBooks with faulty keyboards trying to scam unsuspecting people. Ask for their educational certificates, 99 percent of time you will see a diploma from some private engineering college and the obligatory MBA from some suitcase University in US.
I don't understand technology, but understand proper educational qualifications ( each and every certificate soaked with sweat, blood and tears) That's ****ing education, it breaks your back, permanent dark circles, bags under your eyes...proper education leaves physical battle scars in your body.
If you're appearing for an interview without work experience, drown the interviewers with your degrees, diplomas, publications, watch their jaws ****ing drop ( that's the highest satisfaction for all the hard work, not the money) they won't ask you many questions, they will ask you why have you applied here!!
Now you drag them by their balls and mention your worth for your professional service ( not yourself)
I didn't have any teaching experience, but I just drowned those old hags interviewing me in some German universities.
Trust me it works. My post may sound very rude, but I'm not a rude person in real life. They asked about my teaching experience twice ( very politely told I've none) but the second respose was slightly different. I simply told them that I've been working in Community medicine for close to 15 years and possibly have more papers published in indexed journals than all of them combined. Then I just drowned them... interview ended in next 2-3 minutes, received the confirmation letter within an hour.
We are all selling our services, don't sell yourself cheap. You were the best child to your parents, you still are...work ****ing harder..study harder ( even if you are in 40s)...
DON'T BE AFRAID...IF ONE DOOR CLOSES...FIVE WILL OPEN.
 
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princeoo7

On a Journey called Life :P
Veteran
I think it's the Indian mentality of middle class people that bring such results. we try to get what we can and in this we get abused a lot. if we ask for strict law, we can get but no one is going to try to pull such a stunt to upset the current setup. today I was hearing same complain from my fellow co worker but I can see he is not that experience and so he is spending more time in solving a issue some one else can solve easily in less time.

we have both the case. in experienced or unskilled people consume more time. and based on that skilled people are asked to match their work hours even if they perform way better. Thing is management try to extract what ever possible and how ever possible.

If something needs to change then that will need to be from the top. because this mentality will defiantly drag the performance in future. If any CEO or future CEO here reading this. Leaders need to be like water. take the shape that they are pour into and make most of it.

I also think having a physiatrist in an office shall help a lot with stress. may be I am talking my mind loud but this can help a lot.
 

sanjeevram

Up! Up! Up!
Adept
Shall I send this to Joshua Fluke? If motivated, he can call up the CEOs of these retched corporates. He is focused on India for now.
These things should stop. I have worked 100+ hours a week for months, but those were desperate times, needed desperate measures directly related to life or death. And I was paid insane amount of money.
How much these young people are getting 1-2L INR at most!! This is beyond ridiculous!!!
If a start up needs every employee to work 15 hours a day, close it down and put the owners in jail with hard labour.
Start ups my ass!! I know how most of them operate and how much they pay to the employees...but it's India, some educated people will praise these assholes after getting 80k INR salary a month ( 15 hours day)
This is worse than slavery. I would rather dig a ****ing hole for 15 hours and strike oil or gold or hope for it.
WTF is startup anyway..just another business where the owners dress like hipsters, drink the piss aka Starbucks coffee with their fancy MacBooks with faulty keyboards trying to scam unsuspecting people. Ask for their educational certificates, 99 percent of time you will see a diploma from some private engineering college and the obligatory MBA from some suitcase University in US.
I don't understand technology, but understand proper educational qualifications ( each and every certificate soaked with sweat, blood and tears) That's ****ing education, it breaks your back, permanent dark circles, bags under your eyes...proper education leaves physical battle scars in your body.
If you're appearing for an interview without work experience, drown the interviewers with your degrees, diplomas, publications, watch their jaws ****ing drop ( that's the highest satisfaction for all the hard work, not the money) they won't ask you many questions, they will ask you why have you applied here!!
Now you drag them by their balls and mention your worth for your professional service ( not yourself)
I didn't have any teaching experience, but I just drowned those old hags interviewing me in some German universities.
Trust me it works. My post may sound very rude, but I'm not a rude person in real life. They asked about my teaching experience twice ( very politely told I've none) but the second respose was slightly different. I simply told them that I've been working in Community medicine for close to 15 years and possibly have more papers published in indexed journals than all of them combined. Then I just drowned them... interview ended in next 2-3 minutes, received the confirmation letter within an hour.
We are all selling our services, don't sell yourself cheap. You were the best child to your parents, you still are...work ****ing harder..study harder ( even if you are in 40s)...
DON'T BE AFRAID...IF ONE DOOR CLOSES...FIVE WILL OPEN.
i am going to frame this ASAP.
 

Rezep

Well-Known Member
Disciple
Shall I send this to Joshua Fluke? If motivated, he can call up the CEOs of these retched corporates. He is focused on India for now.
These things should stop. I have worked 100+ hours a week for months, but those were desperate times, needed desperate measures directly related to life or death. And I was paid insane amount of money.
How much these young people are getting 1-2L INR at most!! This is beyond ridiculous!!!
If a start up needs every employee to work 15 hours a day, close it down and put the owners in jail with hard labour.
Start ups my ass!! I know how most of them operate and how much they pay to the employees...but it's India, some educated people will praise these assholes after getting 80k INR salary a month ( 15 hours day)
This is worse than slavery. I would rather dig a ****ing hole for 15 hours and strike oil or gold or hope for it.
WTF is startup anyway..just another business where the owners dress like hipsters, drink the piss aka Starbucks coffee with their fancy MacBooks with faulty keyboards trying to scam unsuspecting people. Ask for their educational certificates, 99 percent of time you will see a diploma from some private engineering college and the obligatory MBA from some suitcase University in US.
I don't understand technology, but understand proper educational qualifications ( each and every certificate soaked with sweat, blood and tears) That's ****ing education, it breaks your back, permanent dark circles, bags under your eyes...proper education leaves physical battle scars in your body.
If you're appearing for an interview without work experience, drown the interviewers with your degrees, diplomas, publications, watch their jaws ****ing drop ( that's the highest satisfaction for all the hard work, not the money) they won't ask you many questions, they will ask you why have you applied here!!
Now you drag them by their balls and mention your worth for your professional service ( not yourself)
I didn't have any teaching experience, but I just drowned those old hags interviewing me in some German universities.
Trust me it works. My post may sound very rude, but I'm not a rude person in real life. They asked about my teaching experience twice ( very politely told I've none) but the second respose was slightly different. I simply told them that I've been working in Community medicine for close to 15 years and possibly have more papers published in indexed journals than all of them combined. Then I just drowned them... interview ended in next 2-3 minutes, received the confirmation letter within an hour.
We are all selling our services, don't sell yourself cheap. You were the best child to your parents, you still are...work ****ing harder..study harder ( even if you are in 40s)...
DON'T BE AFRAID...IF ONE DOOR CLOSES...FIVE WILL OPEN.
That's a copypasta if i have ever seen one. Top Notch. Just have to find out what situations i can use it lol
 

ssslayer

Well-Known Member
Adept
Hmmm, so the thread is leaning towards Socialism. I though these days is has become fashionable to bash socialist and promote capitalism.
 

Mr.J

Well-Known Member
Adept
Hmmm, so the thread is leaning towards Socialism. I though these days is has become fashionable to bash socialist and promote capitalism.
Is it? Most of us are just asking for enforcement of laws and regulations that are already in place to protect employees from being exploited.
 

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Veteran
Is it? Most of us are just asking for enforcement of laws and regulations that are already in place to protect employees from being exploited.
In a country, where the government itself uses loopholes so that it doesn't have to pay the appropriate salary to their own employees (please search on contract employees for govt jobs and their issues) , it is going to be a massive, massive fight to try and getting such laws enforced, especially because many of these laws are also non sustainable in the real world.
 

ssslayer

Well-Known Member
Adept
Is it? Most of us are just asking for enforcement of laws and regulations that are already in place to protect employees from being exploited.
Which laws & regulations?

You might be mistakenly talking about Indian FACTORIES Act 1948 which talks about 48 hours per week for LABORERS.
perhaps referring CHAPTER VI WORKING HOURS OF ADULTS?

What we are discussing here is neither deemed as factories, and nor are we talking about laborers.
 
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