Why BitTorrent sucks (if you have a little money).

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This is a nice thread folks. Keep the discussion civil, express your points as nicely as you can. Everyone has the right to his own opinion, so don't go calling their opinion SH!T.

I agree with the OP in considering HTTP better over BT. I am not against uploading, but hey, P2P rules and Port blocks are so rampant amongst our ISP's that it makes bittorrent worthless for many of us. I for one don;t have nay access to BT. Even if i did, i get to maximize my speeds on HTTP streams instantly while i have to wait a while to even get stable speeds on BT, plus worrying about upload ratio too. I myself have a RS as well as Megashares Premium accounts, and i can find nearly anything here.

For Some, HTTP is better. For others, BT may be better. As they say, to each his own :P
 
apextwin146 said:
Just to touch up another fact that Most of the releases that you see on popular RS/MU boards are gotten from the PvT Trackers only ..
Y dont you do an excersice ... Lets see your level of knowledge ..
Can you compare the Pre times of a PvT tracker like scT or SCC and compare them with those of a RS Board .. RS Boards get games atleast 8-9 hrs later than the trackers man ..

I dont see any point in taking this thread to a level where we need to test one another's knowledge.

I guess we can all have our say - withoutbeing direct at one another - but by talking about technologies/options?
 
Yes, aryayush - BitTorrent isn't as great as the mass echoes it to be.

Actually it's a piece of crap operated by a bunch of profile-addicted idiots.

Technically

It sucks up every bandwidth, notable decreasing quality of the connection, as it seems to be unable to implement proper traffic management. There were also some VoIP guys that noted this, it is worse than the KB/s it consumes.

The small little chunks are horrible for the (file) system on higher speeds. If you tried to swap data in a local area network, you'd notice that after letting BitTorrent run, no matter if with caching or without, the computer is behaving dizzy and laggish.

No real network at all - relies on central directorys, required metafiles are scattered among the interwebz.

It was and is designed to download and then you're done, for every compilation of files you need a seperate entry in the client, from which all of them send individual requests to trackers; renaming or moving a file breaks the seed.

Socially

It is elitist and unfriendly, beginning with those believing that the use of BitTorrent is generally 'more smart' then 'using LimeWire', continuing to those that are sure about 'public trackers being lame' and finally reaching those that call themselves a person belonging to 'a place' 'better than you'.

'Community' members feel they are entitled to deny file-sharing to those with less 'skill'. They displace newbies themselves as if they were copyright police in order to 'stay under the radar' (and probably to push their ego). This is disgusting, because they were better off to deny it to them very selves.

Well, most of the problems are described in the initial post. People beg for invites, lie about 'community' being 'important' and whatnot, so they can befriend those with invites and make use of them. There is no way to enter in the front, so you always need to do it somehow from the back.

Conclusion

In my opinion, it isn't worth it. Actually I do not understand how so many people can waste their time with all the crap when they could just use alternatives. Then again, I'm not sure if there even are (that) many people who care about it.
 
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Usenet , covers most of the pro's of both except the free part of course .

You will max out your connection

You dont have to upload anything

New Releases come faster than RS though not as fast as some torrent sites

NO download limits
 
You my friend, are severely underestimating bittorrent. The whole concept of the hydra is what makes it almost the best thing out these until the next p2p revolution ( face it, change is inevitable) but it is for certain, it will not be rapidshare.

What happens when you wake up one fine day and find rapidshare no longer working? Where do u go for your fix? Of course, couple of other places but what then. This while applying similarly to torrents, assume that major torrent sizes go down, but the technology has come to the where the DHT and open trackers can withstand the people until new safe havens are built.

Unfortunately, I am no seer, but I believe bittorrent deserves more credit than you are dishing out.
 
apextwin146 said:
Thats incorrect .. The tracker tracks only those IP Address that are classified as public .. If your account has Anonymous access then it doesnt report your address to the Tracker .. I suggest you check out SCC and thier donation plans ...

But you only mention just the one. Is this not the norm with the others ?

Implication being of course, the rest don't do the same ;)
 
For everyone's benefit , ill post the reply i sent to the OP :

Hi.

Care to explain to me how it works and what the subscription prices are? Does it have movies in 1080p high definition? Is there any way to try it out before paying for it?

Thanks.

Its an alternative network similar to what the internet is . Most usenet companies operate huge server farms designed to host content , however there is something called retention which is 365 days for most companies , this means you can download only files uploaded in that time , but due to the massive volumes , it is easy to find even a lot of obscure stuff

Most companies offer free trials for eg Power Usenet

The easiest way to download from usenet is through nzb's , goto any nzb search site such as https://www.bintube.com/ , find what you are looking for and download the nzb , use a usenet client (i use sabNZBd) , enter you usenet settings once , then add the nzb and its downloaded , similar to bittorrent but unlike peers you download from server farms and has 256 bit SSL encryption

The cheapest usenet access is from 11$/month from astraweb , also if you dont download much , you can buy volumes of data , say 200 GB and use them over a long period of time

For HD Movies ,

<link purged> google for "HD nzb's"

Hope this helps .
 
OK, here’s an apt analogy. One of my cousins commutes to and from New Delhi to his office in Gurgaon every day. He has one of those passes that allows him to use the toll road and he pays a certain sum per month for it, even though he could just as easily take the longer toll-free road and save those bucks.

Why? Because time is money. And his saving half-an-hour every day is worth much more than spending Rs. 250 per month. In an exactly similar fashion, every hour I save by using direct downloads instead of BitTorrent (and you’ve got to be kidding me if you claim that BitTorrent doesn’t require you to spend more time than direct downloads) is more precious to me than the five hundred odd bucks I spend each month to get that luxury.

I don’t mean to demean anyone who doesn’t think it’s worth it but, seriously, I earn several hundred times that amount doing what I do and I’d rather spend my time writing for pay than busting my ass off trying to seed. Also, if you’re paying for a seedbox or donating to private trackers in an attempt to minimise the wastage of time, you might as well pay RapidShare or Megashares. And vice-versa, of course.

‘file-exchange’ hit the nail on the head with this post. The elitism is not so much about individual members as it is about the whole BitTorrent culture as a whole. In fact, it’s apparent in this very thread.
 
I do agree http is better (fast/secure etc etc) and the intention of thread OP is that of a happy http paid subscriber which is a good thing he shared with us but come to think of it id rather not say Bit Torrent sux instead i would have made a thread of a happy Rapid share/Megashare user you just cannot diss BT cause you are over it , trust me its not abt 400-500 bux we indians still have the heeby the jeebies while making a online transact, if there was a proper gateway where we could pay in INR and was reachable to us easily ( in the form of a Indian RS agency or something ) ..every user on this forum even a 13 year old would had a RS account.

Think about it we all know what you are trying to say but to diss a free thing is just unfair on your part, online transaction is still a taboo and will be for a long time until someone markets it really well, just imagine if one of our Email services went paid and promised this and that while another service coexisted for free which just got the job done, what would you opt for?

Adding a Big IMO sometimes saves a lot of flames .

Thanks

Sanil
 
ReekingArchvile said:
trust me its not abt 400-500 bux
Ha ha ha! You’re kidding, right? That’s exactly what it’s about. It may not be for you (for which I congratulate you) but it is for most of the people here. But I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that. I wouldn’t spend even ten rupees on something if it didn’t seem worth it to me, so I don’t expect anyone to spend five hundred bucks for something just because I think it’s good either. My problem is not that people are not willing to pay for it; my problem is that they’re not willing to try or are ignorant about the options.

ReekingArchvile said:
we indians still have the heeby the jeebies while making a online transact, if there was a proper gateway where we could pay in INR and was reachable to us easily ( in the form of a Indian RS agency or something ) ..every user on this forum even a 13 year old would had a RS account.

Think about it we all know what you are trying to say but to diss a free thing is just unfair on your part, online transaction is still a taboo and will be for a long time until someone markets it really well,
Good point. However, I have two rebuttals:

1. This is the last excuse anyone should give me (or even themselves) on a technology forum, specially on one like TechEnclave. Quick question: Which is the most famous section of this forum? Why, the trade section, of course. And there you’re transacting with other people who may or may not actually ship you what was advertised once you’ve paid for it. (Though, to the credit of TechEnclave and its members, that very rarely, if ever, happens here. The trade section out here is awesome and very reliable.) So why worry about paying via a credit card or PayPal to websites that have proven their genuineness over time? Your local restaurant waiter is far more likely to cheat you than a secure website like Amazon or RapidShare. I can understand my orthodox parents making this argument but not someone on a forum like TechEnclave. If even the people out here are shy of online transactions, we’re just fooling ourselves by thinking that the Indian youth is becoming more advanced and more of a global citizen with each passing day.

2. And if you really (really? seriously?) are scared of online transactions, there are tens (if not hundreds) of RapidShare dealers all over India who sell genuine accounts for prices as low as Rs. 200 (because they earn it via points, essentially for free) and you can pay them simply by recharging their prepaid mobile. I mean, it’s as secure as it gets, specially once you’ve dealt with one person and have had a flawless transaction.

ReekingArchvile said:
just imagine if one of our Email services went paid and promised this and that while another service coexisted for free which just got the job done, what would you opt for?
Er, I already use a premium e-mail service which I pay $99 per year for. It has more features than Gmail and is more reliable and fast. I never hesitate to pay for quality, specially for something as important as e-mail, which my entire work life is pinned on.

ReekingArchvile said:
Adding a Big IMO sometimes saves a lot of flames .
I don’t understand this Indian mentality. A joke is only funny if there is a goofy smiley next to it. If someone posts a controversial statement without adding an “IMHO†next to it, it is regarded as flaming. What the hell! “IMO†expands to “In My Opinionâ€. Well, guess what, everything I write anywhere is my own opinion, unless I specify otherwise. Why do I have to go around stating that something is my opinion? It makes no freaking sense! I refuse to cow down to this meek attitude just so that I am not flamed by some oversensitive pinheads on an online forum. Honestly, the quality of anything I write (which is sullied by redundant additions like “IMHOâ€) is more important to me than what anyone else thinks of me (unless they happen to be people I personally know and whose opinion I respect).
 
Originally Posted by aryayush

This is the part that genuinely surprises me. Are you telling me that you use only public trackers and get everything you want at decent speeds and are satisfied with the experience? If yes, man, you must have stumbled upon a secret formula, because I’ve tried to do that so many times and have put in genuine efforts into getting it to work but it simply hasn’t for me.

Yes I do. Even though I have a slow internet connection when compared to others, I still get all the stuff I want (50% of which is 720p) at decent speeds in public trackers. The only private tracker account I have are revtt and stmusic and I don't even use them nowadays. Your point about maintaining ratio is true though. Especially in exclusive private trackers where people seed at insane speeds, its difficult to get your ratio up. But then thats the trade off.

As for shelling out 500 bucks a month for a MS or RS account, that is a lot of money for a lot of people. Folks who shell out 1000 bucks a month for internet can't afford that kind of money for something they can get for free through torrents. And my personal opinion on that is that its just a waste of money.
 
aryayush said:
OK, here’s an apt analogy. One of my cousins commutes to and from New Delhi to his office in Gurgaon every day. He has one of those passes that allows him to use the toll road and he pays a certain sum per month for it, even though he could just as easily take the longer toll-free road and save those bucks.

Why? Because time is money. And his saving half-an-hour every day is worth much more than spending Rs. 250 per month. In an exactly similar fashion, every hour I save by using direct downloads instead of BitTorrent (and you’ve got to be kidding me if you claim that BitTorrent doesn’t require you to spend more time than direct downloads) is more precious to me than the five hundred odd bucks I spend each month to get that luxury.

I think a better analogy would be that you carpool with your friends , and take the regular route, and then all of a sudden, you take a monthly pass for the toll free road, and tell your friends - tough luck :P

eventually all 4 of your friends would have to get passes for their cars too. you act with your own interests in mind, but if everyone did, the rest 3 of your friends would also buy passes for the toll road, and the toll road would be 4x congested as the regular road. So now you end up spending 4x the cost for a road, 4x the fuel, polluting 4x as much, which has as much, if not more traffic as the road you used to. Sometimes it is best to act with everyone's interests in mind, else things can get counter productive soon enough.

Yes, sharing is inconvenient, but there is a higher purpose to it. You cannot use money to get out of everything. Just be glad that you can, for this :)
 
2. And if you really (really? seriously?) are scared of online transactions, there are tens (if not hundreds) of RapidShare dealers all over India who sell genuine accounts for prices as low as Rs. 200 (because they earn it via points, essentially for free) and you can pay them simply by recharging their prepaid mobile. I mean, it’s as secure as it gets, specially once you’ve dealt with one person and have had a flawless transaction.

Honestly Dint knew about this, please post links etc or PM me

and i was talkin about the whole downloading group in general, i on the other hand buy my music legally so online transaction ive been doing for like 4 years now, please be a bit progressive its not about you and me rather the community as whole and to change people's perspective is something which will come with a lot of banter
 
he is only trying to open a neat discussion. so not discuss about people, or comment on people. may be comment on people's ideas.

Off topic. Arya I have decided to plagiarize all your articles and your websites. And infringe your copyrights. I hope you have no issues with that. ;) !
 
I am a happy user of bit torrent and I don't agree with some of your points.

Speed

I always get decent speed while downloading even if its a public tracker.Yesterday only I completed downloading a 7gb file from a public tracker.Downloaded it in 20 hours flat on a 1mbps line.

Ratio on Private Trackers

I am a member of many private trackers and maintaining a good ratio is not that difficult,the freeleech files are there, for some reason.

File Getting Struck in Middle

These thing has never happened with me till date.
 
I think I'll post my own counterpoint. Of course bittorent is not the be all and end all of file transfer. But just like carpooling, it has its advantages, and thats why people use it. Rapidshare etc has its own use. I dont say it doesnt. its IMHO the car equivalent of a taxi service. If you dont have a car, get a taxi. But saying that taxis are far more convenient, and that carpools are an excercise in frustration is missing the point.

Both have their place. No point in trying to denounce one and say that the other is better. May be from one's POV, but not in the general case
 
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