wikileaks is down; long live wikileaks

[dexBG]

even after reading all your guys posts, i still think it is the right of the Govt to see what secrets are made available to be published and what remains as secret.

Wikileaks and several media outlets had offered the US Govt. a chance to review the content before it was going to be released so that and potentially dangerous info. could be held back but the US Govt. refused upfront.
Apparently their resasoning was something like .. 'Wikileaks is a terrorist .. we dont negotiate with terrorist" ..

 

[blr_p]

because usa is the school bully

Without them the world would be much more dangerous. If it was not them it would be someone else. Who would you prefer ? Washington or Beijing ?

A multi-polar world is much more dangerous than a unipolar or bipolar one.

now your turn .. why ?

She's in charge of the state dept. She's going to have to do a lot of explaining to foreign partners. Not that it will matter too much , the worst that can be expected from this is personnel changes as foreign counterparts refuse to deal with their american counterparts over what's been revealed. So they get replaced with others. An unnecessary outcome.

An arab diplomat told the american, don't worry about what you said about us because we say things twice as bad about you

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

even after reading all your guys posts, i still think it is the right of the Govt to see what secrets are made available to be published and what remains as secret.

Nobody is saying that Manning should go free.

But Gaurish posted that link to a SC judgement that said publishing classified information is not a crime. This is why they an do it. Because they has nothing to do with getting this info from the americans in the first place. Do not believe reports that try to hint that WL somehow helped manning to do this. IF a 22yr old can sneak this stuff away on a pen drive then there are security issues in the state dept.

call me a fool or whatever, that is my opinion. no govt will be able to go on and rule properly if everything was transparent. even companies & people ruling them have secrets else they might not have success or monopoly.
call it a necessary evil or whatever.

Complete transparency & complete secrecy are extremes. What this will end up doing is making things less secret. Too many things are classifed as secret when they do not even deserve to be so. I was reading elsewhere that ppl like to get things classifed as secret just to show how much power they have. The state dept is one massive bureaucracy, all the babus want to be considered worthy

Not many ppl are all that surprised with what's been revealed so far, anybody that watched development closely would have concluded no different and that too with open source info, therefore where is this great need to classify as secret. Its clearly being abused isn't it.

Btw, what difference will it make to you guys whether a secret is published or not? will it make your lives any different? will you change your life thereafter?

One easy example, India before vs after RTI.

And in @Blr_p's Time's interview link, i read that wikileaks makes changes to the documents. So what is there to stop them from changing facts and making it look like something else? In other words what is the guarantee that the published articles are 100% not tampered? are 100% truth?

There are several papers publishing the same story, if there is a difference then questions will be asked. I get your point tho, i suppose its down to the integrity of these papers that the public places their trust in.

 

[ALPHA17]

Without them the world would be much more dangerous. If it was not them it would be someone else. Who would you prefer ? Washington or Beijing ?

A multi-polar world is much more dangerous than a unipolar or bipolar one.

I think its the other way round a multi polar world keeps the two powers trying to keep each other in check through the principle of MAD
Mutual assured destruction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ~ since the fall of the Soviet Union America's sphere of influence has come into conflict with that of China which is trying to fill in the power vaccumm left by U.S.S.R. ~ this is both good and bad like less cold wars ( Korea, Vietnam ) reduction in the US mindset of the Domino effect
Domino theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and now they realised that their so called Allies are their worst enemies, nothing against Pakistan in person but... you know

" Fighting for Peace is like screwing for virginity" ~ Anonymous :rofl: :rofl:

 

[blr_p]

I think its the other way round a multi polar world keeps the two powers trying to keep each other in check through the principle of MAD

No, it does not, look at the causes of WW1, that was a multipolar world, there is just more anxiety as each power thinks the other one is trying to one up them.

A unipolar or even bipolar makes for a more stable world than a multi-polar.

If the US decided to become isolationist it would create an absolute mess as each local bully everywhere tries to grab a little here or there knowing there is nobody to stop it. Arms races would be rampant and the chances of wars starting, would be much greater.

All the organization has done is to publish classified documents that originally belonged to the U.S. government — something that may be uncomfortable and embarrassing, but is not illegal. Because as per US Supreme Court Ruling on June 30, 1971 on NY Time vs US Govt Case, it said. While "Leaking" classified is against the law, publishing them is not illegal. Further court also said "Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government". If it was illegal, then you should jail every single media/News organization in the world because they too are guilty of publishing that same information. Wikileaks is an media organization of different kind.

Want to review this again because its incorrect. Publishing classified information is still illegal.

The court case cited above refers to the pentagon papers. In that case the SC refused to stop the nytimes from publishing the story, but it did not make any ruling. So because there was no ruling no precedent was set. Therefore it still remains illegal as per the Espionage Act of 1917 to publish any classified info in the US.

It's up to the govt to show that national security is endangered but in 1971, the govt failed to make the case or convince the SC. Given how mundane the cables released have been to date there is a chance the govt will also again fail to make the case for national security as nothing with top level classification has been revealed.

 

[Gaurish]

No, it does not, look at the causes of WW1, that was a multipolar world, there is just more anxiety as each power thinks the other one is trying to one up them.

A unipolar or even bipolar makes for a more stable world than a multi-polar.

If the US decided to become isolationist it would create an absolute mess as each local bully everywhere tries to grab a little here or there knowing there is nobody to stop it. Arms races would be rampant and the chances of wars starting, would be much greater.
Want to review this again because its incorrect. Publishing classified information is still illegal.

The court case cited above refers to the pentagon papers. In that case the SC refused to stop the nytimes from publishing the story, but it did not make any ruling. So because there was no ruling no precedent was set. Therefore it still remains illegal as per the Espionage Act of 1917 to publish any classified info in the US.

It's up to the govt to show that national security is endangered but in 1971, the govt failed to make the case or convince the SC. Given how mundane the cables released have been to date there is a chance the govt will also again fail to make the case for national security as nothing with top level classification has been revealed.

two points
a) your conclusion is incorrect because if it was true, every single news paper or tv channel would have ben banned. Because they too publish same information, why only w L should take beating? As I said publishing info is NOT illegal.
2) the so called espionage act can't be applied to wikileaks. Because it only applies to us citizens.
posting cell phone so pardon me for mistakes

 

[blr_p]

two points
a) your conclusion is incorrect because if it was true, every single news paper or tv channel would have ben banned. Because they too publish same information, why only w L should take beating? As I said publishing info is NOT illegal.

That's what i thought initially as well but the govt has not made the case yet. There's time as less than 1% has been put out to date and at the current rate it will take years for all to come out.

As the law stands technically its illegal. Now for this law to have any effect it has to be actually enforced and for that the govt has to prosecute the case. Part of the reason i think they have not is the newspapers have worked with the state dept on this and redacted some of the content which gets put up on their sites as well as WL. However the govt refused outright to work with WL.

2) the so called espionage act can't be applied to wikileaks. Because it only applies to us citizens.
posting cell phone so pardon me for mistakes

If you commit a crime in the US you can be tried without having to be a us citizen. Is it possible for a foreigner to commit treason against another country ? No, but they can try him for espionage.

The bigger question is whether the US can extradite Assange to the US to stand trial for these 'crimes'. If they get him then I think they can prosecute him.

All depends on whether the Brits send him to Sweden. i don't know if the Swedes will say no to the US. So thats two countries to work through before the US gets him if ever.

If the US cuts a sweet deal with the Brits and Swedes it can happen but it appears Assange has a certain amount of public support as well. It's hard to call either way right now.

 

[vishalrao]

If you type wikileaks in to google it gets you to the site's IP (tried last nite)... now this begs an interesting question:

Google being a US corp, isn't there a likelihood they will redirect you to a "hijacked" (by the US govt say) fake site which might display "harmless" cablegate information. Basically fake leaks/information warfare style.

Or, is it too late, cats outta the bag, internet is too decentralised and all that jazz?

 

[kippu]

usa trying to bully internet also , wonder how blrp will spin this also as a good thing

go anonymous , go

 

[Party Monger]

If you type wikileaks in to google it gets you to the site's IP (tried last nite)... now this begs an interesting question:

Google being a US corp, isn't there a likelihood they will redirect you to a "hijacked" (by the US govt say) fake site which might display "harmless" cablegate information. Basically fake leaks/information warfare style.

Or, is it too late, cats outta the bag, internet is too decentralised and all that jazz?

They are first released by the partnering news agencies in print and other media.

 

[blr_p]

usa trying to bully internet also , wonder how blrp will spin this also as a good thing

Easy, the DoD says they have no knowledge of these activities.

And what makes you think the US is the only country thats upset about this.

 

[Hacker]

If the US cuts a sweet deal with the Brits and Swedes it can happen but it appears Assange has a certain amount of public support as well. It's hard to call either way right now.

assange also has some doomsday file, in worst case scenario he will release the key of the encrypted file which has some more juicy info about the US goverment.

 

[ALPHA17]

^^

I doub't Assange will do that but hope this issue gets resolved in the least ugly manner as possible, ugly fallout can be Internet policing like in China

 

[RS4]

Wikileaks and the App stores:

Apple drops WikiLeaks app, Google keeps it - The Economic Times