Women's Reservation Bill

blr_p

Skilled
Trying to figure this one out :huh:

All I got from my daily is...

That purpose is to increase the role of women in public and parliamentary life and make them more active participants in governance and national life. Experience has shown that this is not possible without legislative support. Experience has also shown that women have risen to the occasion when they were given the opportunity, as in the local self-government bodies where women’s reservation has worked well. When the bill becomes law and gets finally implemented, it will be a game-changer and will make a signal difference to national life.

I see this as less of a vote bank measure since the major parties support it and only some minor ones don't. Therefore there is no chance of it getting repealed in the future once it gets passed in the lower house. So the advantage of the party initiating it dissapears in the future.

If 10% of members in govt. are already women why was there a need to create a quota that pushes it to 33% ?

In the UK, number of women in parliament is 20% they don't have any quota system there.

A 33% quota means that preference would be given to a woman over a man just because of being a woman. Is this going to result in better MLA's ?

Understand that as yet I don't have an opinion either way on this topic :ashamed:
 
Sad day for Indian women. I hope they are feeling highly empowered right now and are raring to take over the world. Tsk Tsk. Right. So I hope this really gives them superpowers and they can tackle all the women abusers,wife beaters, rapists and MCPs with their laser vision, or whatever this bill provides them with.

Now that Indian women are so empowered, there should be no need of chivalry in buses, metro or in lines. With great power comes great responsibility, and an obligation to stand in lines and stand when there are no seats available. Ready to take all that Indian empowered women?

Now all we need are a few more Mayawatis and we'll be all set to conquer the world.

Disclaimer: This is just a rant against the silly bill. By no means will my respect for women change or decline.

Also lets not start another huge flame war! I thought TE was about technology, not about petty bills, discussions, polotics, or even dating services for that matter.
 
phoenix844884 said:
Now all we need are a few more Mayawatis and we'll be all set to conquer the world.
Add to that, Sonia, Sushma & Mamata, all top bosses.

phoenix844884 said:
Also lets not start another huge flame war! I thought TE was about technology, not about petty bills, discussions, polotics, or even dating services for that matter.
No need for a flame war but reasoned arguments are always welcome :)

I'd beg to differ on this being just another petty bill, its pretty big from what i can understand.
 
blr_p said:
If 10% of members in govt. are already women why was there a need to create a quota that pushes it to 33% ?

Are you saying the current percentage of women MLAs is enough in comparison with the actual population percentage of women?

blr_p said:
In the UK, number of women in parliament is 20% they don't have any quota system there.


But in Uk, they dont have caste system, domestic violence and women are treated equally.
 
Mephistopheles said:
Are you saying the current percentage of women MLAs is enough as compared to the actual population percentage?
What is enough here :)

What is the correct number of women MLA's ?

Sex ratio is roughly 50-50 , why is 33% the correct figure in this case. You see where i'm going here.

Mephistopheles said:
But in Uk, they dont have caste system, domestic violence and women are treated equally.
What does caste or domestic violence have to do with it ?

As to being treated equally all that can be said is they are treated better. We still had a woman PM before them tho ;)

There is a problem with this way of thinking tho, just because the top spot is occupied by a woman does not mean things are as rosy for those below or so i'm told.
 
Well, women treated unequally is the reason for such a quota. People have an inferior thinking about women, so they don't elect them. With the quota, they don't have a choice. And 33% is a good move, a 50% quota is just mental, and besides a 33% quota doesn't mean that exactly 33% women will be there. And getting a woman at the top first doesn't matter.
 
33% quota is for those men who lost in previous election so that their wives can hold the same posts in next election. :lol:

quota or not, nothings gonna be different for the common man. place is hell enough. it can't go more worse than this. :|

33% quota is for those men who lost in previous election so that their wives can hold the same posts in next election. :lol:

quota or not, nothings gonna be different for the common man. place is hell enough. it can't go more worse than this. :|
 
quota for women is a good step towards women empowerment...women in India are not treated equal to men which is a fact. with this bill they get the power to represent them selves. regarding the "ONLY 33%" it means that 33% of all seats are reserved for them they are free to contest on the other non reserved seats too.

also those who say that India is hell please ask your parents how it was in their time...we are getting better it would take time.
 
this is a huge step towards woman empowerment , please dont limit your vision to the urban india ... this thing will bring about a change , albeit slowly ...but it will happen and i am glad that the govt stood up to the yadavs and pulled it through ...LS will be a diff matter
 
Mephistopheles said:
Well, women treated unequally is the reason for such a quota. People have an inferior thinking about women, so they don't elect them.
Ah..this is much more deeper now. Bootstrap the nation dragging them into the 21st century kicking & screaming whether they like it or not :)

Funny but the way i think is given a man & woman with equal qualifications for a job, the better pick is usually the woman as they tend to be more determined at getting things done than a man ever could ie the woman is the better deal to go with.

Anything else ?

What are the expectations here once more women are involved ?

If some of the women members open this part up it might be more enlightening.

Mephistopheles said:
With the quota, they don't have a choice. And 33% is a good move, a 50% quota is just mental,
Why is 50% mental and 33% ok :)

If 33% is ok why not 25% or 20%.

I realise you cannot go lower than 20 as that already represents a 100% increase over the present and it would be meaningless to go through the trouble with anything lower than 20%.

So the range is really 20% + upto 50% ?

Mephistopheles said:
and besides a 33% quota doesn't mean that exactly 33% women will be there. And getting a woman at the top first doesn't matter.
Ah, this means if there aren't enough women candidates to begin with then it does not change anything.

rishabh.asthana said:
regarding the "ONLY 33%" it means that 33% of all seats are reserved for them they are free to contest on the other non reserved seats too.
Yes, but you assume there are plenty of women contesting already which i'm not sure is the case or there would be no need for this bill right ?

kippu said:
i am glad that the govt stood up to the yadavs and pulled it through ...LS will be a diff matter
Well, this is the other part of the story ?

What do these characters have to lose over this bill :)

They ain't arguing over principle are they. Rediff has more to say here, its fight or die for them. This move will hit smaller parties harder than bigger ones.

One point caught my eye, there is already a 22.5% reservation for OBC's so that means the pool is 77.5%, with this 33.3% the pool reduces to 44.2% (!) --does this matter ?

See wiki's reasons against the idea
 
For all those who think Women are already empowered and there is no need for reservation. read lalu's comment on 2times Bihar CM. what more, he had the guts to say this on national television

If..[they] think that the women would vote independent...then they are mistaken...If I asked Rabri Devi to vote a certain way, do you think she would do otherwise?

--Lalu Yadav

now you yourself judge their mentality towards women. So I would say it would be healthy for our democracy to have a men & women, rather than men only:)
 
Gaurish

See Yadav's pov in the rediff link posted here. Its little less emotional and more rational.

I can say i'm even more confused about this topic and the reasons against are outnumbering the ones for :(
 
blr_p said:
Gaurish

See Yadav's pov in the rediff link posted here. Its little less emotional and more rational.

I can say i'm even more confused about this topic and the reasons against are outnumbering the ones for :(

Whatever quote claims he makes, I would current trend of "Men only" is unhealthy. we should have more women in politics. If our past 60yrs history is any indication, this would only happen with reservation.

Offcourse, this reservation should not be permanent and should be withdrawn in due course:)
 
I just want a honest and hard-working bunch at the parliament.

Does not make much of difference if we now have 33% of corrupt women instead of men,now, does it?
 
Gaurish said:
Whatever quote claims he makes, I would current trend of "Men only" is unhealthy. we should have more women in politics.
And Lalu agrees with this, but the sticking point is that figure of 33.3%, he's ok with 15%.

So clearly his love for his survival outweighs everything else. 33.3% will kill the smaller parties and predictably they are the ones making the loudest noise about it and why the bigger ones are mum. This i think is what the fight is about.

The broader question is whether its ok to have bigger parties and less regional ones ?

I'm of the opinion that fewer parties cannot hope to represent the diversity this country has. So loss of smaller parties potentially is more costly than having fewer bigger parties. What good is a system that cannot capture its citizens aspirations ?

Yes you will have faster development with fewer bigger parties but there is also the downside of marginalising groups which only leads to trouble. The arguement against is basically that it limits choice of what is currently present, this is never a good thing in general. In short the system in place is perfectly matched to the country's reqmts.

Small party is same as small business man ;)

Gaurish said:
If our past 60yrs history is any indication, this would only happen with reservation.
kippu said:
please dont limit your vision to the urban india ... this thing will bring about a change , albeit slowly
I read that there is already a 33.3% quota in place at the panchayat levels but its only in the parliament that this reservation is not there. So how will it bring about any change ?

Gaurish said:
Offcourse, this reservation should not be permanent and should be withdrawn in due course:)
Hmm, what would be the reason ?
 
This bill is one of the biggest political blunder in indian history. Sad thing is even the BJP went along and sold the nation off. From this op-ed.
For a long time, any legislation which claimed to be pro-women, no matter how stupid and harmful in substance, sailed through Parliament because any legislative initiative claiming to help women enjoyed a moral aura.

The Women’s Reservation Bill is the first piece of legislation witnessing strong opposition within Parliament because this legislation will affect the fortunes of every single politician. If a secret voting is allowed on this important bill, Mrs Gandhi and BJP party bosses who have issued a whip will discover how deeply resentful their own party members are over this bill.

The Women’s Reservation Bill, in its present form, has serious, indeed fatal, flaws. If enacted, this measure will send our already tottering political system into a devastating tailspin. The one-third of the total parliamentary seats to be reserved for women is to be selected through a lottery system. This implies that at random, at least 180 male legislators will be uprooted from their constituencies every election. In their place, 180 women will be assigned those constituencies before every election. Then, at the time of the next election, when the new list of 180 reserved constituencies is declared in the same manner, these 180 women will not be able to contest from the seats they are holding at that point of time because the same constituency cannot be reserved twice in succession under the bill’s rotation system.

Thus two-thirds of our legislators will be uprooted at every election. This takes away the incentive for women representatives to nurture and be accountable to their constituencies since after each election they will be expected to either withdraw from the contest or move to a different constituency since no constituency can be reserved in succession.

Thus this brainless scheme of reservation jeopardises the possibility of sensible planning to contest a political constituency for both men and women. Since very few women politicians have an independent electoral base, this uncertainty about where they will be fielded from will make them even more dependent on male bosses of their party to win elections. In such a situation, male politicians will find it easy to bring in their wives and daughters — the biwi beti brigade — as proxies to keep the seat “safe†for them until the next election when they would be likely to be able to reclaim their seats.


Being a politician’s wife or daughter ought not to be a disqualification in itself. After all, children of lawyers and doctors often inherit their father’s practice. But they have to prove their worth every day with their clientele. However, most female relatives are brought in as proxies whose only task is to safeguard the political interests of the men of their families. Like Laloo Yadav’ s wife Rabri Devi or Madhu Koda’s wife, they will be brought in as rubber stamps to safeguard family interests and sent home after their use is over.

We cannot afford to pack our Parliament and state legislatures with a larger contingent of Rabri Devis. Apart from other disabilities, they act as very negative role models for women because they enlarge the compass of the ideology of female subservience, which is most prominent in the domestic realm, into the public and political domain as well. The one and only agenda these women have is to do all that they can to save their husbands’ seat or protect them from being put on trial for looting the public exchequer. They don’t even bother to pretend otherwise. How does such a woman serve the cause of women or empower other women?

The biwi-beti brigade, in fact, acts as a definite block against the emergence of independent-minded women who wish to make a space for themselves on their own strength in the public domain. For example, it is a common phenomenon in India that the women’s fronts of various political parties are headed by wives, other female relatives, or mistresses of prominent male party leaders. These posts are given to these women like a jagir for as long as their men retain their clout in the party. A Brinda Karat, Promila Dandavate or Ahilya Ranganekar is put in charge of the women’s front primarily because of their husband’s clout in the party. Such women do not easily make space for other women with merit. Any woman who enters the party, no matter how talented, has to play a subservient role to these dependent women. The political initiative of most women thus gets curbed rather than encouraged in the party mahila (women) fronts.

Because of the familial connection between the main party and the women’s fronts, the politics of the women’s front remains subservient to the party. All too often, the main purpose of the women’s fronts turns out to be narrowly partisan on women’s issues. For example, if a rape is committed by people associated with the Congress Party, the women in Opposition parties are used to let loose a tirade against the Congress. But the same women turn a blind eye towards victims of atrocities when their own party colleagues are culprits. Can we think of even one Congress woman who took a public stand against her partymen involved in the 1984 massacre of Sikhs? Or any BJP woman who stood in support of the victims of Gujarat riots?

For years Mamata Banerjee kept crying hoarse about the violence unleashed by CPM cadres on people in rural Bengal, including cases of gruesome rape, in order to obstruct the conduct of free and fair elections in West Bengal. The CPM women responded in characteristic style and hurled the choicest of political abuses at Mamata instead of making common cause with her in combating the culture of violence in West Bengal.

No wonder our country has not yet witnessed the emergence of women-centric politics on women’s issues. The thoughtless scheme of reservation envisaged by the current Reservation Bill will allow the feminine political space to be totally dominated by the biwi beti brigade which will only demean the idea of women’s empowerment.

When it goes to the Lok Sabha, MPs should demand the right to secret vote on this important constitutional amendment. Democracy is meaningless if legislators are denied the right to vote for issues according to their conviction.

The writer is professor, Centre for the Study of Developing Societies, Delhi, and founder editor ‘Manushi’
This blogger has to this to say...
On the “politics†behind the Bill, the lead editorial in Mint is worth reading, according to which this “brainless scheme†is an idea of Madamji Soniaji Gandhiji – and it is she who is cracking the “party whip†at all her MPs, including those of her allies. Little tyrant.

In other words, this Bill should be defeated in the Lok Sabha. Please phone your MP and ask him to vote against it. This Bill is aimed at subverting our representative system; indeed, subverting the very Constitution itself.

But this is just a ruse: a diversionary tactic, at which the Indian politician excels. The real fu@k-up facing the Total Chacha State emerges from the second editorial in Mint, which is titled “Bond Market Turbulence.†Bond prices are falling fast, and the huge borrowing plans of the Total Chacha State are in jeopardy.

They should fix their finances.

They should tackle the Maoists.

Instead, they are trying to get women into their legislatures.

Kill this Bill.
 
blr_p said:
The broader question is whether its ok to have bigger parties and less regional ones ?
Surely, As it would bring stability into our political system.

I read that there is already a 33.3% quota in place at the panchayat levels but its only in the parliament that this reservation is not there. So how will it bring about any change ?
It won't improve anything. Reservation for women is more like 'Right to Vote', so that women would have a voice in national decisions.

Hmm, what would be the reason ?

when there are sufficient number of women in parliament, reservation should be withdrawn.because that it would kill healthy competition, like what has happened with current ST/SC reservation.

the whole logic of reservation is encouraging minorities to become mainstream. when you have 33% share, women would no longer be a minority.Hence there would be no need for system of reservation.
 
@broadway, great article. Is it true MPs would get shuffled around like that !!

BJP says nothing just like the commies as they too stand to win along with UPA.

Gaurish said:
Surely, As it would bring stability into our political system.
Stability for whom :)

In the political market where the beneficiary is the bigger parties, but at the cost of choice for the common man. I'd rather see smaller parties lose favour with the electorate than being forced out as the result is the same without interfering with the process.

Any party should have the possibility to grow to a size where they could eventually wield power at the national level if the ppl so wish they do. Rather than fortifying the bigger parties because then there will be even less choice and no chance ever for a smaller party to come to power. No chance for new parties means less evolution and therefore diversity.

Gaurish said:
Reservation for women is more like 'Right to Vote', so that women would have a voice in national decisions.
Would they being casting their vote as women per se or to what their consituency elected them for ?

From that pov it matters not at all whether its a man or a woman casting the vote in parliament but only the wishes of the ppl they represent. Awoman CEO is not casting votes for other women she is doing what it takes to make the company profit.

Gaurish said:
when there are sufficient number of women in parliament, reservation should be withdrawn.because that it would kill healthy competition, like what has happened with current ST/SC reservation.

the whole logic of reservation is encouraging minorities to become mainstream. when you have 33% share, women would no longer be a minority.Hence there would be no need for system of reservation.
There's that word again :)

How does one test when is the right time to remove the reservation ?

There is 33.3% so long as reservation is there, remove it and it drops inevitably. Therefore there is no reason to remove it at all or it would be like going backwards.
 
This implies that at random, at least 180 male legislators will be uprooted from their constituencies every election. In their place, 180 women will be assigned those constituencies before every election. Then, at the time of the next election, when the new list of 180 reserved constituencies is declared in the same manner, these 180 women will not be able to contest from the seats they are holding at that point of time because the same constituency cannot be reserved twice in succession under the bill’s rotation system.

I feel that it could actually be a good thing over having incumbents. Besides, reservation doesn't imply than women can't contest in the unreserved seats.
 
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