Work toxicity on the rise

buzz88 said:
Now you've done it. This is the kind of tribalism that begets toxicity. I am from the state of lions, lol, and I've shared my own experience of workplace toxicity above, and guess what, none my bosses were from my state.

Your comment reads eerily similar to those of white racists when they are going off on a rant about Indians, they think all Indians inherently share the same traits and are dirty, ill-mannered and uncivilized by nature, which we know isn't true. Generalizing a whole country or a whole state just because of one's own anecdotal experience of a bad bunch is quite foolish as well as churlish. We need to come out of this "othering" mentality. When you divide lines and put people into "others" category, i.e. Us vs Them, you are only feeding the issues you are complaining about. These biases often start small, an offhand comment or a sweeping stereotype, but can quickly grow into bigger issues that perpetuate tribalism and stop us from coming together. The irony is, while criticizing others for being tribal, we often don’t notice our own tribal thinking. When we catch ourselves making generalizations, it’s worth pausing to question if we’re being fair or just clinging to biases that make us feel comfortable.

Lastly, I really don't want this thread to go on a tangent and discuss how one state or another is bad, or one community or another is evil. Workplaces all over the world have a tendency to go toxic, it is not limited to certain countries, states or communities. The cause of it is not a great mystery. It is human nature, the coveting of power over others, that is the cause. I am sure this evident and obvious to most people here. What we should be discussing is our experiences in dealing with it and what we can learn from it.
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Sorry if you feel like that. But those are consensuses. People hardly see anyone from your state working like a normal middle class. Everyone seems to be running a business. Dislike against one's bosses shouldn't come under tribalism. You folks are truly hardworking, no denying, but WLB, weekends seem to be a foreign concept in general over there.

I never said these people are bad. No offense was meant. The working culture is different from that of the rest of India.
 
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Every management person highlights Indians need to work for more then 60hrs, They wrap their personal agenda under patriotism like most things these days, in the end the person who is sacrificing and working will not be getting much as a reward and only the shareholders pockets will be filling up. Senstive topic but if someone can come up with a model where working for 60-70hrs will increase indians per capita income not GDP most indians will be more then happy to comply.
 
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6pack said:
You should have mentioned about the future then. Well, I'm no saint or don't have special powers, so I cannot say how long into the future people will keep having 3 kids.
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Think about what it is that drives people into having three kids over the last three decades. Then try to see if conditions in the future will be conducive.

Totally hypothetical
6pack said:
Even that lancet study is a bit too much. Lets take it at face value. Even then India's population will be the highest in the world if some African countries don't overtake us. It will take some global catastrophe to wipe us out or make any sort of significant damage that humans will go extinct. Not declining birth rates.
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Then our growth rate above average is guaranteed for the next few decades. We have an internal market dynamic that accounts for 70% of our GDP. The remainder is foreign trade.

So imagine we are unable to trade with the world. The economy would still be 70% of what it is thanks to the internal demand. This isn't new btw and has been the case for a few decades already.
6pack said:
This is just like a magician. Instead of blaming the companies and their toxic work environment, he's blaming people for not having kids.
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That's the pattern seen in other countries facing population decline if not outright collapse.
6pack said:
Why would anyone want to have kids when the world is so polluted? Or they get up everyday dreading to go to work? Or they don't know when they will be fired and end up homeless or won't find enough money to pay bills? Healthcare and insurance is a joke with a one sided system where insurance companies only exist for financial gains. Any disaster strikes and they bail out. Can't blame people for not procreating in such anti-people living conditions.
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Ask this of those who still want three kids :D
6pack said:
I don't see the relation between emigration and world collapse. Like I said, he is the least qualified to remark on such topics. Does he mean families will spend thousands of dollars to go to USA or some western country, only to stop having children? Or does he mean the second or third generation of emigrants will stop having kids?
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Emigration as a way to stem population decline. But there are forces against it.
6pack said:
Either way, I see it as a problem the governments have created themselves by allowing companies to systematically remove all benefits from the workforce. No unions, no wage increase, no safety net, no savings, high price of essentials, etc. Not one person in their right mind will want to live in such a place. Since this is happening on a global scale, people are forced to live in their own countries. And yes, it's happening here in India too. But Indians are a bit slow in thinking power and either don't care or won't care because they think it won't affect them. In reality it will hit us hard and everyone in govt will be left wondering what happened.
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This hire and fire practice has been the norm since the end of the 80s in the US which ended the era of job security. It has slowly spread worldwide.

The result is economic growth and freedom to companies to size up or down depending on demand. The more you manipulate the market with unions snd price fixing the longer it takes to recover from a bad economy.

60% of people in the US live from paycheck to the next. They had a tough time when covid struck. Many businesses went under because they depended on constant cash flow. Three weeks closure was enough to finish these businesses off.
 
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lockhrt999 said:
Sorry if you feel like that. But those are consensuses. People hardly see anyone from your state working like a normal middle class. Everyone seems to be running a business. Dislike against one's bosses shouldn't come under tribalism. You folks are truly hardworking, no denying, but WLB, weekends seem to be a foreign concept in general over there.

I never said these people are bad. No offense was meant. The working culture is different from that of the rest of India.
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1. Consensus? Please share the study and method that brings about this consensus. If you mean generally held opinion, that is called a stereotype. Name your state, please. I am pretty sure I could come up with a suitable stereotype that you would find offensive and untrue.

2. Dislike against one's bosses shouldn't come across as tribalism. Agreed. But you aren't calling out bosses, are you? You think people from a certain state are born with workplace toxicity. Please think on this logically. If we were all running businesses and acting as bosses, who do do you think we are bossing over? Who does all the work under these bosses? The working class in the state is all imported from the outside?

Just admit your tribalism and irrational hatred. That is the first step to address it. As long as we keep denying its existence, we will never be above it.

3. If I tell you that your people are different from the rest of India and that you do not value something like WLB based on my very limited experience with some of them, then offence is meant and delivered whether I claim otherwise or not.

Every state has a different culture. That's what makes our country so unique in the world. Please don't use cultural differences as a tool to propagate tribalism.

As the other comments here are pointing out-- many other people are known to show favouritism for people speaking the same language (I really wished this thread did not devolve into groupism discussion, but here we are). If you had chosen to highlight a similar trait, then perhaps I might not have taken the offence. One can say that some Kannadigas are known to favour other Kannadigas or some Bengalis prefer working with other Bengalis or any such thing, but your comment basically can be rephrased as stay away from all Kannadigas or all Bengalis.

I also find it quite funny as when discussing such issues on an international platform like reddit when Indian and Chinese middle managers are hated by one and all, I empathically agree with them, seeing it firsthand. What I disagree with them is when that leads them to hate all Indian immigrants equivocally. They probably say the same thing: Stay away from Indians in workplaces.
 
blr_p said:
Think about what it is that drives people into having three kids over the last three decades. Then try to see if conditions in the future will be conducive.
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Last 75-100 years, poor people always had 3 or more kids. Even being in abject poverty didn't stop them from having 3+ kids. I don't see this changing anytime in next 75-100 years since they will get subsidies and other incentives from the govt. Poor uneducated women don't have any choice in having a kid or not. Plus they have some sort of hope that if they have extra kids, one of the kids will grow up to become a doctor or get into some cushy job and make their lives better.

Middle class will stop having more than 1 kid because they don't see a future for their kids. This class is educated and know the perils of bringing up a kid. Govt does not give these middle class any incentive to have kids nor do they get any tax breaks. Plus women in middle class are educated and educated women have more freedom in having a baby or not. You will see major decline in marriages in this class who don't belong to any sc/st or backward class or caste and are never given anything by the govt.

Rich people have no worries about having 3+ kids because they have the financial ability and choice to move anywhere in the world. Plus they have more resources to make informed choices to make their lives better. They will naturally want 2-3 kids to further increase their wealth. I see no change on rich people having 2 or more kids for the next 50+ years.
blr_p said:
Emigration as a way to stem population decline. But there are forces against it.
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I was rereading that Elon/Lancet quote and thought they were hinting at immigrants making life harder for the natives into procreating. Like more immigration = less opportunities for native born people to get jobs and have a good life which is stopping them from having kids. Why don't they ban immigrating into their country for a few years? Zero people coming in will increase the pool of jobs for their own citizens. Thing is they (the companies) don't want to pay higher salaries to workers and are pitting citizens against immigrants. Citizens blame immigrants, companies blame immigrants and govt blames immigrants. We can see this blame game happening in Canada, USA, UK & Australia.

blr_p said:
This hire and fire practice has been the norm since the end of the 80s in the US which ended the era of job security. It has slowly spread worldwide.

The result is economic growth and freedom to companies to size up or down depending on demand. The more you manipulate the market with unions snd price fixing the longer it takes to recover from a bad economy.
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Then just fire everyone - 100% of the work force and put AI in place. It will give a lot more freedom to companies now that there won't be any pesky humans to pay. No humans, no problems.
I'm sure the economy will shoot up by 10000 percent by this one trick. Wonder why the companies haven't caught on to it yet?
 
buzz88 said:
1. Consensus? Please share the study and method that brings about this consensus. If you mean generally held opinion, that is called a stereotype. Name your state, please. I am pretty sure I could come up with a suitable stereotype that you would find offensive and untrue.

2. Dislike against one's bosses shouldn't come across as tribalism. Agreed. But you aren't calling out bosses, are you? You think people from a certain state are born with workplace toxicity. Please think on this logically. If we were all running businesses and acting as bosses, who do do you think we are bossing over? Who does all the work under these bosses? The working class in the state is all imported from the outside?
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1. I mentioned my state on the previous page: Maharashtra.
2. I did call out bosses. Read the first post you quoted. You probably missed that, but I'm talking about "company run by" that means bosses or owners. You are taking it personally. At no point, I mentioned anything about normal middle class 9 to 5 job dude.

buzz88 said:
3. If I tell you that your people are different from the rest of India and that you do not value something like WLB based on my very limited experience with some of them, then offence is meant and delivered whether I claim otherwise or not.

Every state has a different culture. That's what makes our country so unique in the world. Please don't use cultural differences as a tool to propagate tribalism.
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Yup. We have different cultures. So, is it correct to say bosses/owners shouldn't impose their culture on their employees?

If the answer is yes, then they shouldn't imply WLB is a western concept, there's no such thing as a weekend in India. Or, everyone should follow lunar calendar and take only one holiday per 28 days.
 
Recently One of My Friend's Company Employee on his Last Day of Notice Period Drafted a Mail to All their Company Branches before logging out and closing the Branch at Late Night, Expressing the uneven treatment of Employees and Stress the Management gives to employees to make high profit from sales.
Exactly in morning at 11 AM the Mail was made disappeared from whole Branches secretly by IT team.But Goodness we got the Screenshots of Mail.
But Alas , just after a Day they are received a Mail by HR saying they've made a new initiative for wellbeing of their employees and they can Contact HR for any Emotional Distress and Support but everyone there knows HR can't do shit because the Branch heads and management is closely tied with CEO and MD.
Will share the Mail SS in DM if anyone can post in on Sub Reddit of India, and any other Relevant company industry Subs and name shame it.
P.S : It's a Hair and Skin Clinic. wellness Industry Has around 50-60 Branches in South India.

I can share the Mail screenshot here too ( Will Hide Names for privacy reasons) if it ain't against the rules of offtopic.
 
lockhrt999 said:
1. I mentioned my state on the previous page: Maharashtra.
2. I did call out bosses. Read the first post you quoted. You probably missed that, but I'm talking about "company run by" that means bosses or owners. You are taking it personally. At no point, I mentioned anything about normal middle class 9 to 5 job dude.


Yup. We have different cultures. So, is it correct to say bosses/owners shouldn't impose their culture on their employees?

If the answer is yes, then they shouldn't imply WLB is a western concept, there's no such thing as a weekend in India. Or, everyone should follow lunar calendar and take only one holiday per 28 days.
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1. That was a rhetorical quest. I am not actually going to mock or disrespect all Marathi manus just because I had a disagreement with one person. I am sure you know all about Marathi/Maharashtrian Stereotypes. How many do you agree with?

2. Your comments implies that being Gujarati directly leads to being horrible bosses. Bosses are horrible everywhere, that is what this thread is about. Being Gujarati doesn't add a special flavour to it. There was no need to call out an entire state for it.

3. Not getting the point of this. No one should forcibly impose their culture/language etc on other people. I am with you on that. You are the one who thinks WLB is not valued in my state, going off by a few Gujarati bosses who I presume hate the concept. FYI, afternoon siesta used to be big part of our culture and it still is in rural parts of Guj. The corporate culture we imported from the West ruined it for the urban population. Gujaratis are big on travel and probably the most 'vacationing' people (if that is even a word) we have. Travel enthusiasts maybe. So, yeah, most of us are big on WLB, maybe not the greedy bosses, but I don't agree with you that them being Gujarati is the driving factor for their lack of human compassion.
 
buzz88 said:
How many do you agree with?
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I don't know all but can agree with many.

Let's drop this subject. We can agree to disagree. I can't just ignore 2–3 decades of my experience. I'm sure there's got to be some people who have dreamed of working in Reliance.

----

Meanwhile,

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

CM Chandrababu Naidu: Fewer than two kids? Will bar from polls: Andhra Pradesh | Hyderabad News - Times of India

Andhra Pradesh CM N Chandrababu Naidu proposes allowing only those with over two children to contest municipal and panchayat elections, aiming to tack
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Elon Musk is proud.
 
buzz88 said:
I also find it quite funny as when discussing such issues on an international platform like reddit when Indian and Chinese middle managers are hated by one and all, I empathically agree with them, seeing it firsthand.
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If you are are working for immigrants in the US then yes. Add Jewish in there too. Come to think of it any immigrants.

They will bust your balls like anything. If you survive you will be better for it.
buzz88 said:
What I disagree with them is when that leads them to hate all Indian immigrants equivocally. They probably say the same thing: Stay away from Indians in workplaces.
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Not in my experience. I find its the opposite. I'd rather work for an American than an Indian or any fresh immigrant.
 
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