Xbox Series X available at Reliance Digital

@rdst_1 You are still better, you took the effort to import stuff that was not available in this country.

The other guy took away another man's oppertunity, created a problem in the market, and then is offering a solution for the shortage at a premium. It's disgusting. Justifying that is akin to justifying insider trading.

Such activity takes away from the spirit of a forum. What's the point of a community that is trying to exploit each other? That too by selling above mrp!
 
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@SunnyBoi and @puns - Can you guys please explain in detail, if every type of reselling is not allowed, or only reselling stuff bought from the forum marketplace. Because I see only Jaydip was banned while I can see some other resellers commonly selling stuff. The one I can easily remember one guy who frequently sells SSDs on the forum.
 
@rdst_1 man why are you being a white knight. did any of the other guys stop the seller from selling his products hell it's not even his thread and no one even mentioned his name, everyone is here stating their opinions? do whatever you want do scalping, justify scalping no one here stopped you
 
Did not went through every post of the guy selling Xbox for 60k but most of them seem to be clearly bullying the seller.

Nobody was forced to buy it .

The world works like this and in this market many have sold their items at heavy losses too why because they needed money and at that time buyers saw good opportunities to get something cheap they took it. Do buyers care to give that person a fair amount for his stuff ?

This guy too saw an opportunity he invested and tried to make money.

If suppose his Xbox did not sold for over a month of return period and Microsoft was to announced decent drop in price and worldwide supply was good.

He would have probably got stuck with huge investment or had to sell at loss.

The entire world is out their to make money as much as possible and most are doing that someway or the other.
Yes some people may be out there who would not do such things out of moral or whatever values they hold and more power to them but that just does not give them right to judge the other person also.

Bottom line Just don’t buy if you find the price high.
You can also buy it later when the price you feel is fair and right.
This is not a essential item .
This is a luxury item for most Indians anyways.

Just wanted to share my thought on the whole episode and felt a need to say it.
 
Did not went through every post of the guy selling Xbox for 60k but most of them seem to be clearly bullying the seller.

Nobody was forced to buy it .

The world works like this and in this market many have sold their items at heavy losses too why because they needed money and at that time buyers saw good opportunities to get something cheap they took it. Do buyers care to give that person a fair amount for his stuff ?

This guy too saw an opportunity he invested and tried to make money.

If suppose his Xbox did not sold for over a month of return period and Microsoft was to announced decent drop in price and worldwide supply was good.

He would have probably got stuck with huge investment or had to sell at loss.

The entire world is out their to make money as much as possible and most are doing that someway or the other.
Yes some people may be out there who would not do such things out of moral or whatever values they hold and more power to them but that just does not give them right to judge the other person also.

Bottom line Just don’t buy if you find the price high.
You can also buy it later when the price you feel is fair and right.
This is not a essential item .
This is a luxury item for most Indians anyways.
This. I see TE marketplace as a free market, people are free to price whatever they want. If the potential buyer feels its priced higher, scalper or not, he/she is free to not purchase it.

Putting any further restrictions goes against the spirit of the marketplace IMO. Talking about sellers, taking their name or not in other threads is taking a cheap shot.
 
Glad I ignited this discussion, folks accusing me to try to get around restrictions...lol, what? I post here once a year may be now so you got me there for sure :) That $100 odd I'd made would have made me rich, I'm so devastated. Scalping is price gouging on essential goods, not luxury items. I buy a limited edition Ferrari for 300K, and resell it couple of months down the line for 600k is that scalping too or just supply and demand market economics? Ditto for a GPU, PS5 or Xbox. Definitely NOT for food, water, essentials things you need. Oh and if you sell your home be sure to sell it for exactly what you paid for it years ago or you will be a MEGA SCALPER, all those $$$$$$s or crores in profit, so unethical to the buyer. :)

PS: Glad to see some familiar old faces still around.
 
Did not went through every post of the guy selling Xbox for 60k but most of them seem to be clearly bullying the seller.
The posts were to make a point that scalping is disgusting. Even OLX is deleting when we report ads above mrp. We don't expect to delete but we thought we could have a discussion about it.

The world works like this and in this market many have sold their items at heavy losses too why because they needed money and at that time buyers saw good opportunities to get something cheap they took it. Do buyers care to give that person a fair amount for his stuff ?
Sorry bro. This is strawman, clearly we have an mrp in India, unlike rrp. This is a moral restriction more than a legal restriction to not only prevent companies but also people from exploiting.

The entire world is out their to make money as much as possible and most are doing that someway or the other.
Yes some people may be out there who would not do such things out of moral or whatever values they hold and more power to them but that just does not give them right to judge the other person also.
This means we can justify anything done to make money? We should treat a good gesture and greed the same way. Ok. So we shouldn't criticize greed. I get it.

Bottom line Just don’t buy if you find the price high.
You can also buy it later when the price you feel is fair and right.
This is not a essential item .
Oh. Essential argument is unfair. I will not buy it sorry. Someone else might have needed it urgently, but now they are left with option to buy it at a marked up rate for no fault of theirs except maybe they pushed refresh .05 seconds later.

Putting any further restrictions goes against the spirit of the marketplace IMO. Talking about sellers, taking their name or not in other threads is taking a cheap shot.
No one tried to bring in any restriction. I don't know where you got this idea out of bro. I agree restrictions suck.

But I guess one mistake I made was to assume marketplace was integrated into the forum and part of its culture. Now I realise that "buyer-seller" members/marketplace and "regular" members should be viewed as seperate entities here. This is wholly my fault and I'd like to apologise for this. This was the case in another forum I am a member of and I agree different forums have different approach.

After reading seller's response I'd like to add:

> This is not a limited edition item, it is unfortunate covid related supply chain limitation, you are taking advantage of other people's need to play, not want of a luxurious limited edition.

> House value is not fixed by mrp.

> Dictionary literally gives example of scalping with movie theatre tickets. I don't think they are essential?
 
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Don't have time to respond to this idiocy anymore but will make this point all prices are MSRP S, standing for suggested, and you can see how seriously the GPU AIBs are taking Nvidia/AMD's suggestions right now :)
 
Don't have time to respond to this idiocy anymore but will make this point all prices are MSRP S, standing for suggested, and you can see how seriously the GPU AIBs are taking Nvidia/AMD's suggestions right now :)
Unfortunate mrp is concept specific to India. US might have MSRP but India follows MRP system.

Anything that doesn't fall within your world view isn't idiocy mate.

Agreed, this discussion has run its course. You price, we will critisize and you can criticize us in response. This is not against forum rules right as long as we don't take your name or ruin your sale thread?

Hope you get the price you wished for with the Xbox. No personal offence. Sorry if there were rude responses, but I am strongly against scalping. Hope you understand.
 
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Unfortunate mrp is concept specific to India. US might have MSRP but India follows MRP system.

Anything that doesn't fall within your world view isn't idiocy mate.

Agreed, this discussion has run its course. You price, we will critisize and you can criticize us in response. This is not against forum rules right as long as we don't take your name or ruin your sale thread?

Hope you get the price you wished for with the Xbox. No personal offence. Sorry if there were rude responses, but I am strongly against scalping. Hope you understand.

MRP is only a restriction for selling by authorised sellers and not for reselling. Also, maybe you don't know that even in India there is MRP (minimum retail price) for some products like Alcohol which the seller can sell for more than the listed price. If you are against scalping, which is basically appreciation of a product price due to various reasons including supply and demand, then you are against free market. Also, and I see this in the GPU rants thread as well, people are talking about the need of gaming and how other buyers are depriving gamers like this is a basic necessity, which it is not and neither of these products come under essential commodities under our law.

Also, as someone who thinks that scalping is immoral, how come you don't feel that gossiping about some person and his intended actions is immoral as well. And you are acting very naively if you think that it won't have any affect on that sale thread, irrespective of your intentions, if you talk about it negatively in another thread. One one hand you and others say that calling someone a 'scalper' isn't an insult and then go on to call scalping as disgusting.
 
MRP is only a restriction for selling by authorised sellers and not for reselling. Also, maybe you don't know that even in India there is MRP (minimum retail price) for some products like Alcohol which the seller can sell for more than the listed price. If you are against scalping, which is basically appreciation of a product price due to various reasons including supply and demand, then you are against free market. Also, and I see this in the GPU rants thread as well, people are talking about the need of gaming and how other buyers are depriving gamers like this is a basic necessity, which it is not and neither of these products come under essential commodities under our law.
Why is your right to profit more important than another person's right to game? You want to hold an entire community(gaming) to ransom. Yet, you expect them to "respect" you, accept what you are doing, bend over backwards and take it in the name of free market and be nice to you? Good luck with that.

Free market economics etc can be debated forever, I will not go down that route now. Sorry. There is no definitive right or wrong here, Yet.

Also, as someone who thinks that scalping is immoral, how come you don't feel that gossiping about some person and his intended actions is immoral as well.
I made a true statement about what he did. I don't believe that can be construed to be gossip.

you are acting very naively if you think that it won't have any affect on that sale thread, irrespective of your intentions, if you talk about it negatively in another thread.
But isn't this within the purview of the rules here. Isn't it enough for us to follow the rules?

If you feel a post against scalping in a seperate thread might effect prospect of sale, then maybe you are doing something wrong?

One one hand you and others say that calling someone a 'scalper' isn't an insult and then go on to call scalping as disgusting.
I just said I find scalping to be a disgusting act. How does my belief about scalping change its definition?

What is your responses intent? I have already apologised to @undertaker in my earlier post, if my first post offended him. I don't know what else you expect.

Whatever you say, you can't browbeat me into agreeing scalping is ok. Likewise I can't change your views too. It is clear that many of us are against scalping and many of us are for scalping.

I just hope we can shake hands and end this discussion positively without any permanent enemity.

This is the gaming and console thread where gamers can voice dissent against scalping gaming consoles, especially in this forum.
 
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Why is your right to profit more important than another person's right to game?

That is not the issue. The issue is that according to you a reseller shouldn't be making profit, while it is alright for everyone else to make profit. Do you realize that the store/website you are buying from is also a reseller. Aren't they impeding your morals by making profits. Why is it an issue that they can invest their money and make profit but not some other reseller. I have no issues with the rights of a gamer and I am not saying that one is more important than the other. All I am saying is that supply and demand plays a major role in setting up the price when someone is deciding to sell something, whether it is an individual or a company and apart from the essential stuff, it is not immoral for a middleman to make money when he decides to invest his money and resell the stuff he bought. In fact, in India right now, more hoarding and black-marketing happens for essential stuff and it affects far more people than GPUs and consoles. People should be more enraged that they have to pay 40 bucks for the same tomatoes that a farmer gets paid 5 bucks for.
I also have a great anecdotal story which is one of the reasons I am a little more vociferous regarding this labelling of 'middleman' as immoral. My Nanaji opened one of the first dealerships for Tractors in his town of Ambala. This was back when GT Road used to be more of a dirt path than a road. Both his company and his clients were very happy with him until, his own father told him to stop running this business because it was immoral of him to make money while he was doing nothing but reselling. He said that why does my Nanaji get to make any money when all he is doing is acting as a middleman between the company and a client.
So I find it really disturbing that even 60 years after that, we are still trying to demonize middlemen for making profits on their investments. So please tell me why does everyone else get to make profits but not a reseller. And why is it alright for big companies to act as resellers from whom you will happily purchase stuff but not a common guy.
 
That is not the issue. The issue is that according to you a reseller shouldn't be making profit, while it is alright for everyone else to make profit. Do you realize that the store/website you are buying from is also a reseller. Aren't they impeding your morals by making profits. Why is it an issue that they can invest their money and make profit but not some other reseller.
Yes bro, I agree with this but as a reseller, the official middleman is restricted by mrp. That was an integral part of my argument all along. If Undertaker had bought at 46000 and sold at 49999 plus shipping we have no issue. But my problem stems with this need to sell at a price higher than mrp. Mrp is both a legal and moral measure put in, to prevent companies who own technologies/capital from exploiting customers. If we don't have this mechanism then a rich person, say Ambani, can buy out entire stock of ps5 and limit availability and sell at whatever price he wants. No free market will come to save gamers in this case. So shouldn't we limit anyone, be it middleman or retailer or resellers capacity to exploit? I just wish you could stick to mrp as this measure. Else gaming will become even more unaffordanle to poor Indians.

Now, there is a small difference in case of GPU. We all know that GPU is used for mining. When someone buys GPU, he looks at the investment as present value of future cash flows that he might generate by mining, hence he might be willing to pay a higher price. That's why there is lesser backlash though selling GPU above mrp by way of scalping is also unfair. Unlike this, a gaming console can only be used for entertainment, there is no future value in its purchase so the gamer is being exploited, more so than a miner as he is buying a purely depreciating asset.
I have no issues with the rights of a gamer and I am not saying that one is more important than the other. All I am saying is that supply and demand plays a major role in setting up the price when someone is deciding to sell something, whether it is an individual or a company and apart from the essential stuff, it is not immoral for a middleman to make money when he decides to invest his money and resell the stuff he bought. In fact, in India right now, more hoarding and black-marketing happens for essential stuff and it affects far more people than GPUs and consoles. People should be more enraged that they have to pay 40 bucks for the same tomatoes that a farmer gets paid 5 bucks for.
Now, if you imported and sold something, it will not have an mrp since it is not officially available in India, so power to you , since you took the effort to find this in demand product, learn about it and import it, hence you helped out another person who needed this thing by doing all this work for him. Profit is your well earned reward for this. You profited using arbitrage strategy.

Now tell me what Scalper does? He games the online store system, to ensure no one else gets their hands on the product and then sells it to the same people who couldn't buy the same product, at a higher price. In case of pure scalping there is absolutely no value addition to the buyer or the economy. That is why Scalper is different from Reseller. That is why we hate scalpers. At least there was some dignity in scalping for movie tickets( REMEMBER MOVIE TICKET SCALPERS WERE ARRESTED, IF CAUGHT BY MUFTI POLICE). They stood in long que under sun for long time but online scalpers just keep looking at computer screen (while enjoying music.lol.) or use bots(which are as unfair as using hacks in online gaming) while the rest of us are probably working or at school/college.lol. This is nothing more than cynical opportunism.
I also have a great anecdotal story which is one of the reasons I am a little more vociferous regarding this labelling of 'middleman' as immoral. My Nanaji opened one of the first dealerships for Tractors in his town of Ambala. This was back when GT Road used to be more of a dirt path than a road. Both his company and his clients were very happy with him until, his own father told him to stop running this business because it was immoral of him to make money while he was doing nothing but reselling. He said that why does my Nanaji get to make any money when all he is doing is acting as a middleman between the company and a client.
So I find it really disturbing that even 60 years after that, we are still trying to demonize middlemen for making profits on their investments. So please tell me why does everyone else get to make profits but not a reseller. And why is it alright for big companies to act as resellers from whom you will happily purchase stuff but not a common guy.
Damn bro, it's sad your nanaji had to suffer from the remenents of a toxic socialist era that kept India perpetually poor. I have nothing against resellers. Resellers are important tools in the economy, who market, store and sell. They learn, invest, build and sell to help economy grow. Like I said, I wouldn't call you a Scalper, you are an importer reseller like them duty free shop.

We are absolutely not against reselling we are only against this modern iteration of scalping which has an element of unfairness and sadism to it, Since they are taking advantage of an actual pandemic crisis to profit. Isn't there a need to raise this issue of morality? We can't let people profit off everything, that too with minimal effort.

Again to be sure, we are not calling for any ban on reselling in this forum, there wasnt a single post asking for that. I don't know who came up with that conclusion. I am for open markets everywhere just as much as you are, but we are only voicing our dissent/dissatisfaction with covid-scalping of video game consoles in video game discussion section of this forum. We will continue to call out scalpers here.
 
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Thanks for understanding the distinction. The thing is, not everyone understands this and as you can check a few posts above, and call for banning resellers completely and this has been going on for the last year or so in the forum and I was just fed up of these discussions popping up over and over again.

Also, bro, don't put too much faith in the MRP system. My BiL works in the govt department which regulates a lot of these selling things and the amount of MRP manipulation that happens, even for normal stuff is mind-boggling. Also, the govt can't regulate MRP for anything apart from essential commodities and they are even trying to take out food items from that list according to the new farming laws. And manufacturers can set up any MRP they like and they increase and decrease even MRP in conjunction with distributors and retailers. Prime example for that is how older graphics cards like 1660 came out with higher MRP during the pandemic. So all it takes is manufacturers and distributors being in cahoots and for imported stuff where original manufacturer is not present, the MRP system is thrown right out the window, as you already pointed out yourself. Frankly speaking, this scalping business this time around with GPUs and now consoles is more of a manufacturer and distributor setup where they are the ones who are doing most of the price-rigging and flash sales and making lot of money under the table. Hats off to the guys on this forum who have shown great patience and not paid the scalper prices to RPTech, but many gamers have and that's why they are able to continue fleecing customers. Frankly speaking, if someone has proof that they are selling stuff for over MRP, then they should sue them. I am sure they are smart and don't bill for more than the MRP, but taking extra payment in cash or through other means can also land them in big trouble if proven.
 
The thing is, not everyone understands this and as you can check a few posts above, and call for banning resellers completely and this has been going on for the last year or so in the forum and I was just fed up of these discussions popping up over and over again.
I don't know why you have a problem in understanding. I have nothing against reselling as long as folks are being honest about it and would, in fact, welcome them as long as Mods have no issues with them. I have been a long time member of TE and the extinct Erodov and know that at one time, we had resellers actively participating in the Marketplace with offers and everything. I had even bought from them a number of times. The rules of this forum are not made by me so it is up to the Mods to decide what to allow.
What I cannot accept is folks giving BS reasons like bought by accident or mistake. Just give the true reason why you want to sell. We even have had a few cases where sellers have been honest about it and got appreciated.
As far as pricing is concerned, free market and what not, it's always upto the seller to decide the price and for me to decide as a buyer, whether to pay that price or try and negotiate over PM. I don't care where and how they have got the item as long as it's all legal. If there are instances where I am getting it cheaper, I would want to point that out with the link in the sale thread itself to help other potential buyers. It is as simple as that.
 
Thanks for understanding the distinction. The thing is, not everyone understands this and as you can check a few posts above, and call for banning resellers completely and this has been going on for the last year or so in the forum and I was just fed up of these discussions popping up over and over again.
Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying this, I am pretty sure this wasn't the point of the initial discussion. Poor gamers are just fed up with the fact that they have to undergo GPU trauma with consoles.

Also, bro, don't put too much faith in the MRP system. My BiL works in the govt department which regulates a lot of these selling things and the amount of MRP manipulation that happens, even for normal stuff is mind-boggling. Also, the govt can't regulate MRP for anything apart from essential commodities and they are even trying to take out food items from that list according to the new farming laws. And manufacturers can set up any MRP they like and they increase and decrease even MRP in conjunction with distributors and retailers. Prime example for that is how older graphics cards like 1660 came out with higher MRP during the pandemic. So all it takes is manufacturers and distributors being in cahoots and for imported stuff where original manufacturer is not present, the MRP system is thrown right out the window, as you already pointed out yourself. Frankly speaking, this scalping business this time around with GPUs and now consoles is more of a manufacturer and distributor setup where they are the ones who are doing most of the price-rigging and flash sales and making lot of money under the table.
Very true bro. The thing about scalpers with these consoles is that mega corporations and their distributors have set a reasonable mrp. So can't really blame them like with GPU's. Even most retailers are being genuine and not trying to fleece. That's why when individuals scalp these consoles, it 100% feels like they are exploiting the gaming community.

Hats off to the guys on this forum who have shown great patience and not paid the scalper prices to RPTech, but many gamers have and that's why they are able to continue fleecing customers. Frankly speaking, if someone has proof that they are selling stuff for over MRP, then they should sue them. I am sure they are smart and don't bill for more than the MRP, but taking extra payment in cash or through other means can also land them in big trouble if proven.
Yes bro, hats off to them indeed. This mrp system is one of the better privileges, though flawed, of our socialist history.

Really glad we could sort this misunderstanding!
 
What I cannot accept is folks giving BS reasons like bought by accident or mistake. Just give the true reason why you want to sell. We even have had a few cases where sellers have been honest about it and got appreciated.
Excellent point bro.

I guess this added to the damage to his rep amongst gamer members, already caused by scalping.

Edited out unwanted criticism.
 
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I don't know why you have a problem in understanding. I have nothing against reselling as long as folks are being honest about it and would, in fact, welcome them as long as Mods have no issues with them. I have been a long time member of TE and the extinct Erodov and know that at one time, we had resellers actively participating in the Marketplace with offers and everything. I had even bought from them a number of times. The rules of this forum are not made by me so it is up to the Mods to decide what to allow.
What I cannot accept is folks giving BS reasons like bought by accident or mistake. Just give the true reason why you want to sell. We even have had a few cases where sellers have been honest about it and got appreciated.
As far as pricing is concerned, free market and what not, it's always upto the seller to decide the price and for me to decide as a buyer, whether to pay that price or try and negotiate over PM. I don't care where and how they have got the item as long as it's all legal. If there are instances where I am getting it cheaper, I would want to point that out with the link in the sale thread itself to help other potential buyers. It is as simple as that.
It's a good thing that it doesn't matter to you whether it is a reseller or not. However, then it also shouldn't matter what reason one gives for sale. Just my opinion, but adding a reason for sale adds nothing of value to the actual sale. Like you have pointed out yourself, it's the selling price and whether there are buyers for that price, that is the most important factor. Nobody ever raises such hue and cry when things are being sold for cheaper.
As for people writing other reasons, it's very simple. It's to detract buyers who would bargain just because they think you are making a profit. This happens on OLX as well BTW, because people bargain a lot harder when they think you are a dealer. I am someone who doesn't know how to bargain, so I used to stupidly quote my final price when selling, even on OLX. Plus I get flustered very easily by people who bargain as well. Learnt it the hard way that one has to quote a higher price initially because most of our 'janta' doesn't know how to buy without haggling, but it still didn't sit well with me.
In the end, all I want to say is that it's better to have the marketplace running as simple as it can (apart from legal issues that had been raised and necessary steps taken) and not bring unnecessary complexities. It only hampers the experience for both buyers and sellers and many sellers leave for other avenues then. We have had a well running system for such a long time so why fix something which ain't broken.
 
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