Where this country is heading - do you have any hope ?

[Lord Nemesis]

That increase makes sense to me given that as per NCRB, crime against women (recorded numbers) and children has been increasing at a drastic rate in last 5-10 years. Rape (recorded) for example has nearly doubled. Rapes against children has also increased drastically. In addition, their criteria will also include things like crime related to enslavement/bonded labor, prostitution, trafficking (Hyderabad has been named one of the biggest hub for trafficking women in Asia).

 

[blr_p]

Rape (recorded) for example has nearly doubled. Rapes against children has also increased drastically. In addition, their criteria will also include things like crime related to enslavement/bonded labor, prostitution, trafficking (Hyderabad has been named one of the biggest hub for trafficking women in Asia).

Key word is bolded

Am waiting for some sociologist to explain the reasons behind the rise

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Lack of law and order in the country and continuous affirmation of the same. What else do you need to understand that. The general mindset in India if you notice is that nothing is wrong till its caught and punished. Morality based on self-conscience and thinking is utterly lacking and morality based on religion is a very poor replacement. People cheat, steal, commit rapes and other crime with impunity, but as soon as they get caught, they want to cover their faces.

The punishments of crimes to set an example is very important in such a system. Few centuries back, such punishments existed and coupled with public execution of said punishments acted as a deterrent. The British law that we derived from on the other hand was mostly built around the premise that most criminals will reform themselves which is a rarity rather than the norm in our country. There was a case some time back where a 75 year old guy was asked to pay a penalty of Rs 500 for raping his minor grand daughter. Another guy who raped a mother and daughter and killed both by stabbing each 25 and 40 times and openly bragged about it on subsequent days had his punishment severely reduced by a high court just because he happened to have committed the crime after getting drunk. How do you deter crime with those kind of punishments?

The Nirbhaya case was a key one. It was no where close to being unique in terms of brutality of the crime since there are quite a number of incidents of that kind happening before and after it, but it showed that even in a heavily publicized case like this, culprits can get away without getting their due. The Prime accused got way with light punishment as he was shown to be some months short of 18 years and even though the others got death penalty, its yet to be imposed and the level of indifference and haughtiness displayed by both the culprits and their lawyers even after the case is enough to show how little fear they have of the law.

Also do note that record rate of crime like rape in our country is extremely poor because of the social stigma, victim blaming and indifference of authorities and influence. the actual rates are likely be 20 -100 times higher.

As per just the 2016 reported numbers, there was a rape in the country every 10 min and 40% of the rape victims were minors. The rapes of children doubled from 2015 to 2016, but has been on a steady increase for a few years even before that. This situation has worsened even more in 2017.

 

[blr_p]

Yes but don't you find the rape thing has become more publicised in the last few years. I don't recall it being that much of a national issue prior. Then we were told numbers are rising and what not. Recorded cases and then convictions are another matter entirely.

Ashish Nandy mentioned the biggest reason is growth . People moving into cities from the villages. Women becoming more independent and assertive. The combination of the two ends up with women getting a harder deal

Do remember as far as reporting goes the same applies to other countries as well but somehow we topped the list now. So reporting is going up as people come forward and have been doing so over the last few years.

Bottom line is i don't see anything improving here short to mid term. This is one of those no hope topics

 

[Party Monger]

How did this drop happen ?

When you fall asleep in 2014 and wake up in 2018. Its okay bro, we feel your pain.
You did not see religious leaders with criminal and shady past being made CMs. You did not see a PM that refuses to answer questions. You didnot see a PM that condones abusive trolls, who routinely target women online? Most recent victim being none other than Sushma Swaraj, the external affairs minister. You definitely did not see the RSS cheif make derogatory remarks about women and try to define what they should and shouldnt do. Poor you un-informed imbecile.

What exactly is govt supposed to do to remedy this situation.

Yes when Women think India is the most dangerous country for women, what can a govt that owns the Police, makes the laws, makes all policies related to public and private transport, general conduct and such, what is such a govt to do? We will never know.

Bhakts are such precious snowflakes.

 

[NotMyRealName]

When you fall asleep in 2014 and wake up in 2018...

 

[chiron]

Lack of law and order in the country and continuous affirmation of the same. What else do you need to understand that. The general mindset in India if you notice is that nothing is wrong till its caught and punished. Morality based on self-conscience and thinking is utterly lacking and morality based on religion is a very poor replacement. People cheat, steal, commit rapes and other crime with impunity, but as soon as they get caught, they want to cover their faces.

The punishments of crimes to set an example is very important in such a system. Few centuries back, such punishments existed and coupled with public execution of said punishments acted as a deterrent. The British law that we derived from on the other hand was mostly built around the premise that most criminals will reform themselves which is a rarity rather than the norm in our country. There was a case some time back where a 75 year old guy was asked to pay a penalty of Rs 500 for raping his minor grand daughter. Another guy who raped a mother and daughter and killed both by stabbing each 25 and 40 times and openly bragged about it on subsequent days had his punishment severely reduced by a high court just because he happened to have committed the crime after getting drunk. How do you deter crime with those kind of punishments?

The Nirbhaya case was a key one. It was no where close to being unique in terms of brutality of the crime since there are quite a number of incidents of that kind happening before and after it, but it showed that even in a heavily publicized case like this, culprits can get away without getting their due. The Prime accused got way with light punishment as he was shown to be some months short of 18 years and even though the others got death penalty, its yet to be imposed and the level of indifference and haughtiness displayed by both the culprits and their lawyers even after the case is enough to show how little fear they have of the law.

Also do note that record rate of crime like rape in our country is extremely poor because of the social stigma, victim blaming and indifference of authorities and influence. the actual rates are likely be 20 -100 times higher.

As per just the 2016 reported numbers, there was a rape in the country every 10 min and 40% of the rape victims were minors. The rapes of children doubled from 2015 to 2016, but has been on a steady increase for a few years even before that. This situation has worsened even more in 2017.

Not sure if you are condoning public executions (am guessing that you are not), but I think the punishments in Indian law are far more humane and from a moral standpoint and for a well functioning civilized nation reform should be the ideal for dealing with criminals. Even the Indian constitution to me is a very well thought out document. To me it seems like, Indian law and order system is still surviving more because of the generally passive and law abiding nature of our populace than actual enforcement. Rape is a difficult issue to address but I don't think having more severe punishments is going to help at all, especially in India. Also, I don't think that this is something that can be blamed on the current government or any past governments. The only fact to me is that in current India, women have to live a far more restricted life than men.[DOUBLEPOST=1530072031][/DOUBLEPOST]

Yes when Women think India is the most dangerous country for women, what can a govt that owns the Police, makes the laws, makes all policies related to public and private transport, general conduct and such, what is such a govt to do? We will never know.

Bhakts are such precious snowflakes.

How are you any different from a bhakt? As far as women's freedoms go, we have always been pretty bad at that.

 

[blr_p]

When you fall asleep in 2014 and wake up in 2018. Its okay bro, we feel your pain.
You did not see religious leaders with criminal and shady past being made CMs. You did not see a PM that refuses to answer questions. You didnot see a PM that condones abusive trolls, who routinely target women online? Most recent victim being none other than Sushma Swaraj, the external affairs minister. You definitely did not see the RSS cheif make derogatory remarks about women and try to define what they should and shouldnt do. Poor you un-informed imbecile.

As a hate speech defender none of this is meaningful because people do get trolled back. People have being trying to define what women should do forever.

Do women listen ? no, they will do as they please

The one thing i know if women get restricted in public space they start to lord over in private spaces. The home.

Sushma is a bulldog, our chief barbarian handler. She rescues Indians in distress abroad. None of this will faze her. She's dealt with worse, in office!

Yes when Women think India is the most dangerous country for women, what can a govt that owns the Police, makes the laws, makes all policies related to public and private transport, general conduct and such, what is such a govt to do? We will never know.

Bhakts are such precious snowflakes.

What is govt supposed to do. You don't have any answers this is why this topic is a dead end. The more dangerous part is people ignore it so nothing changes

What govt has done is increase reservations for women at the local level, positive discrimination. incentives for girl children. Have women only compartments.

What else ?

If foreigners taunt you by asking why do so many women get raped in your country. Loaded question. What is your answer ?

I ask them where they're from and throw them some shade back.

I dodged the question entirely because there.is.no.answer.

 

[6pack]

The state and mentality of a party speaks volumes when its own party workers troll / abuse their senior leadership. When the party workers don't respect their leaders why do you expect them to respect for the common man? And he worst part is most or all of the common people are responsible for such trolling / abuses on the internet.

 

[blr_p]

The state and mentality of a party speaks volumes when its own party workers troll / abuse their senior leadership. When the party workers don't respect their leaders why do you expect them to respect for the common man? And he worst part is most or all of the common people are responsible for such trolling / abuses on the internet.

BJP is known for factional infighting. Some times their biggest enemy is themselves

Sushma is a RSS appointee, thought it was an odd portfolio but she's done well in the job

There could be more going on here but there isn't a whole lot to draw any conclusions

 

[chiron]

Interesting that secularism is a bad thing these days. Back in school they used to tel us that it was one of the fundamentals of what it meant to be Indian. I guess the folks who taught me were despicable sickulars, I never did like them.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Yes but don't you find the rape thing has become more publicised in the last few years. I don't recall it being that much of a national issue prior. Then we were told numbers are rising and what not. Recorded cases and then convictions are another matter entirely.

No, it just means that you were oblivious to the extent of the problem. I don't find that rape has become more publicized either. Media had never been able to report even a minute fraction of these sort of crimes. They report only a very minuscule number of cases.What can they even do when there are an average of 100+ reported rapes per day. Take even the situation with child rape numbers of 2016 from just 2 years ago. There were an average of 54 reported child rapes per day and that is just the reported numbers. There are also 130+ cases of crime of a serious nature (rape, torture, murder) per day against SC/ST groups. How many were reported in media?

However, media does publish statistics from NCRB from time to time and this is not any recent trend.

One another point to note is that.rates of crime of these kinds have increased even higher under present govt in last 3-4 years. Not surprising either considering that a significant number of BJP members have criminal records involving multiple rape cases and the leadership have a history of trivializing such crime or playing a role in suppressing it which further encourages it to happen even more.

There is also a surprising amount of censorship that comes into play whenever somebody wants to show the mirror to Indians. Documentaries are banned or condemned by the people themselves. People themselves try to trivialize these things under the pretext of patriotism and what not..

 

[Party Monger]

As far as women's freedoms go, we have always been pretty bad at that.

 

[Party Monger]

As a hate speech defender none of this is meaningful because people do get trolled back. People have being trying to define what women should do forever.

Do women listen ? no, they will do as they please

The one thing i know if women get restricted in public space they start to lord over in private spaces. The home.

Sushma is a bulldog, our chief barbarian handler. She rescues Indians in distress abroad. None of this will faze her. She's dealt with worse, in office!

LMAO

It makes me laugh and makes me sick to the core. What a retard you are. Women get attacked online and you say they can take it cause they are strong? What If a bunch of men came and raped you? And the police tells you, its okay, you are strong, you can take a few more such rapes, your ass isnt giving in anytime soon. Would you be okay with that? Maybe you can lord over your rapists in your private space with them, like you suggest women do above.

If foreigners taunt you by asking why do so many women get raped in your country. Loaded question. What is your answer ?

My answer is - Cause we have a chu chakka for PM (with all due respect for transgender community)
But ofcourse you "thow shade back". But i'd love to see how much shade you throw back ,if you have non-consentual dicks up your back side. Or perhaps you'd want them gone. Give that you're a bhakt, we will never know.

What is govt supposed to do. You don't have any answers this is why this topic is a dead end. The more dangerous part is people ignore it so nothing changes

I dodged the question entirely because there.is.no.answer.

You're a bhakt. When you can't defend your dicktator, suddenly no answers exist. The answers are pretty simple - Impliment the laws in place. Create safe places for women, defend them at all costs. But you cant do that if you're a bhakt or a PM from an inherently misogynistic organisation, that see women as glorified maids and holes to fcuk.

 

[blr_p]

LMAO

It makes me laugh and makes me sick to the core. What a retard you are. Women get attacked online and you say they can take it cause they are strong? What If a bunch of men came and raped you? And the police tells you, its okay, you are strong, you can take a few more such rapes, your ass isnt giving in anytime soon. Would you be okay with that? Maybe you can lord over your rapists in your private space with them, like you suggest women do above.

See how he goes from trolling online to rapes. Nice leap there. There is nothing you can do to stop rapes. They happen. Every where in the world. But only in India is this a big problem.

Trolling is nothing. Get death threats report it. Done. Get off your victim hobby horse

My answer is - Cause we have a chu chakka for PM (with all due respect for transgender community)
But ofcourse you "thow shade back". But i'd love to see how much shade you throw back ,if you have non-consentual dicks up your back side. Or perhaps you'd want them gone. Give that you're a bhakt, we will never know.

nirbhaya happened before this PM. So we will apply what you said to CM Dixit of the time. yes ? she came out to address a mob. The mob tried to attack her. She became responsible for nirbaya, there is no logic

People point out this kind of reporting abroad as India baiting.

It like when you want to show how great India is they say rape

When we send rockets to the moon they say feed your poor instead.

The natural reaction is to reject whatever is thrown at you and give some back.

You can't shame people into action.

You're a bhakt. When you can't defend your dicktator, suddenly no answers exist. The answers are pretty simple - Impliment the laws in place. Create safe places for women, defend them at all costs. But you cant do that if you're a bhakt or a PM from an inherently misogynistic organisation, that see women as glorified maids and holes to fcuk.

Yeah , because this only happens with this govt and not any other ? who says the laws aren't implemented. Point out a few cases and ignore the rest

Create safe places in the city ? you mean declare zones in the city off limits to men. Ya

My turn to laugh at all this fake outrage. Give it a rest

 

[blr_p]

No, it just means that you were oblivious to the extent of the problem. I don't find that rape has become more publicized either. Media had never been able to report even a minute fraction of these sort of crimes. They report only a very minuscule number of cases.What can they even do when there are an average of 100+ reported rapes per day. Take even the situation with child rape numbers of 2016 from just 2 years ago. There were an average of 54 reported child rapes per day and that is just the reported numbers. There are also 130+ cases of crime of a serious nature (rape, torture, murder) per day against SC/ST groups. How many were reported in media?

However, media does publish statistics from NCRB from time to time and this is not any recent trend.

You don't find there has been an increase in reporting. This means reporting has been the same. How then do you conclude it has increased. The only way you know is if reporting has increased, that is why the stats show an increase. It means people are coming forward more readily these days. That would be the silver lining in this cloud.

But in reality things are hovering around the same. In other words we are not making much headway here because its a cultural thing. Ten years from now its going to be the same story.

One another point to note is that.rates of crime of these kinds have increased even higher under present govt in last 3-4 years. Not surprising either considering that a significant number of BJP members have criminal records involving multiple rape cases and the leadership have a history of trivializing such crime or playing a role in suppressing it which further encourages it to happen even more.

There is also a surprising amount of censorship that comes into play whenever somebody wants to show the mirror to Indians. Documentaries are banned or condemned by the people themselves. People themselves try to trivialize these things under the pretext of patriotism and what not..

I don't have the impression that law & order has detoriated under this govt. This is a charge parties like to throw at each other for political mileage.

I'm referring only to general crime here. Add other sorts of political disturbances the picture becomes grey and nothing more can be discerned

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Huh? Why does media publicizing incidents matter here? Whether media reports all incidents or not, NCRB stats show that crime is on the increase.And no, there is no evidence to show that report rate for these crimes has improved. if 1 out of 100 crimes is reported, a change from in count from 1000 to 2000 simply means a corresponding change in total crime.

And no, its not a silver lining in the cloud even if we consider that people are reporting crime more. It simply means that we are in a much worse state to begin with than already thought and not just degrading and also we don't have a damn clue how much crime we already have. I don't see anything to be happy about there.

 

[blr_p]

I mean if stats show a rise it means more people are coming forward compared to earlier. The media picks up on this and we see an increase in their reporting. This is what i meant by media reports have increased recently compared to earlier. I certainly don't recall rapes being front page news in the noughts

Have incidents increased or is it reporting that has increased. There seems to be no way to tell the difference. And given stigma and other factors under reporting is also to be considered.

If you want things to improve pray for it to get worse that is the only way things ever change

 

[NotMyRealName]

Interesting that secularism is a bad thing these days. Back in school they used to tel us that it was one of the fundamentals of what it meant to be Indian. I guess the folks who taught me were despicable sickulars, I never did like them.

Back from school i remember learning Gandhiji taught 'tolerance for all religions etc.'

Wonder what the present gunda raj has to say about that when they want to remove the word secular from the constitution. In case the illiterates that think they're right because they're the majority, tolerance == secularism.

 

[NotMyRealName]

There is also a surprising amount of censorship that comes into play whenever somebody wants to show the mirror to Indians. Documentaries are banned or condemned by the people themselves. People themselves try to trivialize these things under the pretext of patriotism and what not..

While it's pretty obvious to me that the present situation is far worse than before, unlike what the other guy keeps denying, the previous govt. has a horrible track record. I'm not going into detail about the atrocities committed against kashmiri civilians even international organisations have noticed, but the govt. kept sweeping under the rug and finally denying altogether.

But i will mention this because it was the first incident that truly shook my naive heart out of indifference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khairlanji_massacre

It was an american reporter that wrote about it in the TOI

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Just-another-rape-story/articleshow/222682.cms

Guess what the govt. did?

https://gs.columbia.edu/news-alumni?article=sabrina-buckwalter-09-12jrn-reports-rape-banned-india

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/...rl-writing-about-rape-got-kicked-out-of-india

If that's what the congress, who was supposedly 'secular' and 'minority appeasing' did, imagine how much worse these racist, nazi fanatics are?

Things like Khairlanji have become an almost daily occurrence now and yet people think they can deny it and the rest of the sheep will follow.