Market Feedback What to do if you get scammed (by God knows who) but seller says "shipping at buyer's risk" on the sale thread?

[vriship]

Request to members: Kindly avoid going into tangential discussions about tertiary topics on the thread.

Tagging my original post at the bottom with more details shared earlier for easy reference as some queries from other members are repeated!

Complaint has been raised from my end to Delhivery, buyer's email also has been looped in the email chain.
Note: They have asked for a complete unboxing video & the buyer doesn't have it.. Details about what vidoes are available with the buyer & shared with me and some observations when i am looking at them first time on a monitor after reaching back home are below:

Here are the images of the package that were shared with the buyer by me before shipping:
(Total contents > iPhone Box bubble wrapped > Brown Box sealed using Brown tape > After attaching the printed shipping label)
Note: Personal details on 4th picture removed.

Here are the links to the 4 unboxing videos that the buyer has shared with me & the same have been shared with Delhivery:
Note: Sequence has been confirmed by the Buyer on whatsapp (snapshot below), you can guage the buyer's sequence(refer thumbnails) against the video uploads from my end.

Video # 1 Duration 4 seconds:
Observations: Very short, no unboxing carried out, nothing about the contents. On top part of the box in this video, its clear that upper half of Brown tape is different & lower is different (this was not how i had packed) & its evidently already opened prior to this video being taken (see the below snapshot where it seems that the tape on the bottom edge already seems cut):

Video # 2 Duration 12 seconds:
Observations: Again Very Short, no unboxing carried out, nothing about the contents, only one cut done on the top part (1 side) of the box.

Video # 3 Duration 53 seconds:
Observations: Slightly longer, Cuts done on 2 sides of the box & flap opened, see 00:27 here its clear that the 4th remainder side of the box is intact & doesnt appear pre-cut or retaped to me. Happy to be corrected.. Also, note that one transparent magsafe type case is missing in the package & the cases were towards the shorter side of the box when i packed, here its on top of the bubble wrap..

Here is a snapshot from my whatsapp chat with the buyer where the fourth side seems very very evidently cut & retaped.. Would be glad if someone can correct my understanding.. This info from the buyer seems contradictory/ doesnt match with what my eyes see in the video!!

Video # 4 Duration 41 seconds: Directly starts with the Bubble wrapped part being cut & opened; Expected contents: iPhone 11, box, adapter, thirdparty lightning cable, booklet, instead the phone & cable were swapped with a Karbonn phone & a white(USB C?) cable.

With the above information, the unboxing video hardly seems legitimate/usable & some contradictions are possibly highlighting flaws in the unboxing details received from the buyer..

Note: I am now even more confused about the sources of foul play here.. would like the buyer to clarify his POV on the above discrepancies. Whatsapp screenshots updated (removed buyer's name upon his request)

Thanks to @vishal_k for tagging me to the thread.. would have appreciated the buyer to have done it himself while creating it..

I see judgements or opinions outside of buyer’s questions already being posted..

To all who have questions on “Shipping at buyers risk” - It means that if you foresee any risk or don't want to take any chances, please opt for insured shipping (paid with a partner of your choice) at your own cost. Almost everyone requests for shipping free or included in sale price.. courier insurances are a hit or a miss and in most cases require purchase invoices too to prove item value. I do realise that this statement might attract negative sentiments but thats the reality…

All my past 2+ year shipments on TE or otherwise personally have been sent via Delhivery standard and everyone has received them safely.. some of the items even 5x the value of this one and never faced any issues. As @vivek.krishnan mentioned, its been way too long even for me to have come across a shipping fraud…

Coming back to the main topic.. here are the facts of this sale:
1. Buyer enquired for the phone and details battery change related topic, asked for details including a 100 to 50% battery drain test while playing youtube (5+ hours), all of it was complied

2. We arrived at a price (incl. shipping) shipping partner and mode (Delhivery Standard) was communicated to the buyer for the agreed price

3. Payment was credited to me the next day 13th March and shipment was booked with Delhivery(Express), shipping label with address details and shipment value(1000/-) were shared with the buyer

4. Package was an Amazon cardboard box with contents including two cases kept next to a bubble wrapped and brown taped iPhone 11 box (iPhone 11 itself, apple 5W brick, black sleeved third party lightning cable and apple booklet). There was no pre - existing brown tape on the box except the standard Black Amazon tape.

5. Shipment history(the ones that i felt are important):

A. Shipment was picked up on 14th March 2:48PM from my home(Thane)
——> delay of 1 day in next scan at Bhiwandi which is on 15th March 7:21 PM

B. Shipment was received at destination delhivery centre on 18th March 12:16 PM
——> next instance of delay of 2 days as it was physically picked up by buyers relative/friend on 20th March 9:25 AM from the delhivery centre.
During this time the buyer also tried to pickup the parcel on 19th March but the delhivery centre didn't handover to him.

Note: Buyer’s unboxing video is in 4 parts and not a single E2E video. I am myself not convinced on the whole unboxing video capture tbh.

Assuming nothing went wrong on the buyers side, Theft in transit while it was with Delhivery is the only possible situation here and my recommendation is for the buyer to pursue the possibility of something that might have gone wrong in point B and i will do the same for point A.
We both will have to take necessary steps to do all thats possible towards recovering the phone.

@iPwnz please feel free to clarify or correct any details if i have missed or misrepresented.

Note: i am typing this from my phone sitting in a remote location today and tomorrow. I will only be able to take any steps on Friday or Saturday after i return to Mumbai.

Also as i took the time to type details of this message, upon checking imei checker websites, the devices activation lock is ON which means that someone has already started using the device with their apple id.

The thing is, seller and many here suspect the courier but courier said nothing happened after the bag reached here but if any criminal activity took place it would be prior to arriving here hence the need for internal investigation.

I fail to understand why would your remove the courier local office from suspicion? Just on the face value with a verbal communication from them that they didnt do anything wrong? Its like asking the thieves about their whereabouts ..

The theft complaint is likely centrally co-ordinated by their internal teams (could be per region) who didnt come in contact with the package / werent a part of their transit movements.. atleast 20% of neutrality can be expected. God help us if they are in it together..

UPDATE: as of 22nd March 3:40 PM IST : FMI has been turned off on the iPhone..

 

[iPwnz]

They don't have any option as if they refuse you may straight heading to Police Station.
just ask them what was the weight of parcel when arrived/scan at their place.

Yes I had the weight concern in mind. They said they will look into everything so I'm just waiting for them to ask me for more details if they need. I said I'll wait a week to hopefully get some positive answers.

It's in 4 parts (first is useless/unimportant as it's just showing the box, second was blurry cam so had to change it, but two main parts are in full).

Regarding the "broken videos" as stated earlier, while not the best this is correct. Sadly I didn't record it in a single full video which would've been more ideal. But the videos are all clean. No "shady" thing took place on my end.

Regarding the two screenshots in the third video description, yes the two matched. The second screenshot from the same description, it was already there before I cut it. I cut the other three sides of the box as you can see already provided in the screenshots and videos.
The only thing which seemed off to me was the double tape and seller said he did only one. (See WhatsApp screenshot). That was the only difference I could find on the box (exterior) AFTER opening the bubble wrap. I didn't compare the two images of the two boxes prior to the unboxing.

Regarding the accusations, I'm not sure if it would do any good. All I thought of at the time was it was very cleverly done by whoever did it. You wouldn't notice it if you didn't see the image the seller sent. I forgot to do that one in my rush and eagerness (seller used "Express" for this). I contacted the office the day the package reached my location's branch and the following day since it hadn't been delivered. I went to talk with the office in detail the following day and they said to do the formalities via the app which I promptly did. As for the CCTV footage again they said it's a standard company policy/protocol so they will follow that too. They haven't said anything else till now and I haven't got any mail about any of these.
Post is too long so I'll just quote like this.

"Video # 4 Duration 41 seconds: Directly starts with the Bubble wrapped part being cut & opened; Expected contents: iPhone 11, box, adapter, thirdparty lightning cable, booklet, instead the phone & cable were swapped with a Karbonn phone & a white(USB C?) cable."
Yes this is the 4th video that I did after the third video (unboxing) was abruptly cut. Seeing the torn case and one missing (see the first image seller took of the box before shipping) shocked me and I panicked.

Regarding the content: one transparent case was missing, the black case was torn, no iPhone, one old possibly dead Karbonn branded phone, one black USB but white charging brick. I didn't even bother to see the condition of any of these anymore after seeing what I had not expected.

"With the above information, the unboxing video hardly seems legitimate/usable & some contradictions are possibly highlighting flaws in the unboxing details received from the buyer."
I understand it's not the best. No contradiction however.

If it helps, while at the office I requested the courier to go to the source ie first office in Mumbai and to ask them to also verify on their end.

I'm just waiting for the "investigation" (if any) to be finished.

 

[Emperor]

weight, weight & weight, without exact weight of parcel calculated at every entry & exit point, at the city or hub it travel between Thane (Mumbai) to your place of collection, very hard to trace place where this happened.

Also IEMI Number of that Karbonn Phone might help you to find out actual owner of that cell and if possible try to retrieve data from that Karbonn phone memory/call record etc. as (may be like HDD) even after factory reset such data can be retrieve.

Declaring product value Rs.1000/-, 100% going against as maximum can file complaint for that Rs.1000/- and I think that Karbonn phone might value 1000/- only.

Still unclear which courier service is this? Post name on social media along with Branch name.. it may help you

 

[vriship]

Yes I had the weight concern in mind. They said they will look into everything so I'm just waiting for them to ask me for more details if they need. I said I'll wait a week to hopefully get some positive answers.


Regarding the "broken videos" as stated earlier, while not the best this is correct. Sadly I didn't record it in a single full video which would've been more ideal. But the videos are all clean. No "shady" thing took place on my end.

Regarding the two screenshots in the third video description, yes the two matched. The second screenshot from the same description, it was already there before I cut it. I cut the other three sides of the box as you can see already provided in the screenshots and videos.
The only thing which seemed off to me was the double tape and seller said he did only one. (See WhatsApp screenshot). That was the only difference I could find on the box (exterior) AFTER opening the bubble wrap. I didn't compare the two images of the two boxes prior to the unboxing.

Regarding the accusations, I'm not sure if it would do any good. All I thought of at the time was it was very cleverly done by whoever did it. You wouldn't notice it if you didn't see the image the seller sent. I forgot to do that one in my rush and eagerness (seller used "Express" for this). I contacted the office the day the package reached my location's branch and the following day since it hadn't been delivered. I went to talk with the office in detail the following day and they said to do the formalities via the app which I promptly did. As for the CCTV footage again they said it's a standard company policy/protocol so they will follow that too. They haven't said anything else till now and I haven't got any mail about any of these.
Post is too long so I'll just quote like this.

"Video # 4 Duration 41 seconds: Directly starts with the Bubble wrapped part being cut & opened; Expected contents: iPhone 11, box, adapter, thirdparty lightning cable, booklet, instead the phone & cable were swapped with a Karbonn phone & a white(USB C?) cable."
Yes this is the 4th video that I did after the third video (unboxing) was abruptly cut. Seeing the torn case and one missing (see the first image seller took of the box before shipping) shocked me and I panicked.

Regarding the content: one transparent case was missing, the black case was torn, no iPhone, one old possibly dead Karbonn branded phone, one black USB but white charging brick. I didn't even bother to see the condition of any of these anymore after seeing what I had not expected.

"With the above information, the unboxing video hardly seems legitimate/usable & some contradictions are possibly highlighting flaws in the unboxing details received from the buyer."
I understand it's not the best. No contradiction however.

If it helps, while at the office I requested the courier to go to the source ie first office in Mumbai and to ask them to also verify on their end.

I'm just waiting for the "investigation" (if any) to be finished.

You might want to rephrase your responses, please use the reply function if possible & retain the required statement from my post in quote & then respond..

 

[iPwnz]

Delhivery is the courier.

Is the weight calculated at every entry-exit point? Seems like a lot of hassle to check every single package, the packages are all put together in boxes/bags according to the destination point.

You might want to rephrase your responses, please use the reply function if possible & retain the required statement from my post in quote & then respond..

Which exact ones?

 

[vriship]

weight, weight & weight, without exact weight of parcel calculated at every entry & exit point, at the city or hub it travel between Thane (Mumbai) to your place of collection, very hard to trace place where this happened.

Also IEMI Number of that Karbonn Phone might help you to find out actual owner of that cell and if possible try to retrieve data from that Karbonn phone memory/call record etc. as (may be like HDD) even after factory reset such data can be retrieve.

Declaring product value Rs.1000/-, 100% going against as maximum can file complaint for that Rs.1000/- and I think that Karbonn phone might value 1000/- only.

Still unclear which courier service is this? Post name on social media along with Branch name.. it may help you

As mentioned in my earlier post & also quoted again in the latest one. Its Delhivery. Increasing the shipment value does the below generally:
1. Flag the item as high value item & would increase the chances of coming under the radar of miscreants.
2. General requirement of invoice to substantiate the high product value ~ not available for imported or used phones(applies in this case)
3. Increase in the shipping cost associated

I am not sure as i didnt ship insured in the past with Delhivery but even after increasing the value it requires a specific insured service to be opted for & many criteria to be met in case of a insurance claim? can anyone on the forum confirm from their experience? Some have alreayd posted their POVs / experiences you might want to view the previous responses on this thread..
@iPwnz: Summarizing the questions for your response per our whatsapp chat as you are viewing on a phone.

Question 1: Video sequence is correct?
I reconfirmed with you on whatsapp just now, the sequence you confirmed earlier is accurate.

Question 2: Why does the Video#1 as per your sequence confirmation have an existing opening / tape cut at one of the edge?


Question 3: Why does the 4th Edge (which you didnt cut) in Video #3 show a substantial difference in Video vs your photo? Unboxing video shows that the 4th uncut edge is not cut & retaped but the photo that you have shared on whatsapp is glaringly showing a big gap on the box's edge vs the flap's edge.

If i was an unrelated party here to give a neutral opinion, the unboxing videos are doing more damage to the case rather than acting as supporting evidence. Someone might even go to the extent of calling it a post facto orchestration instead of actual real time unboxing (this is far from ideal).

if you feel my above POV is garbage, feel free to toss it in the dustbin.. We will wait for Delhivery's investigation to complete..

 

[hellblazer33]

@vriship one thing I didnt get why you quoted item value of 1000rs only Just to cut costs? Was it discussed between both of you?

 

[iPwnz]

This is the video sequence which I was referring to. See the thumbnail and video length for confirmation.


0:03 is the first video, it's just of the exterior box. It was blurry so I cut it.
0:11 is the second video. There's no cutting here yet as can be seen in the thumbnail/preview.
0:52 is the actual unboxing when the broken case dropped out.
Last one 0:40 is just of the bubble wrap.

All unboxing were done in the same position while sitting.



I can't see the original files so uploading the full images for better quality inside this

Spoiler

 

[vriship]

doesnt the below answer your question? Also, the entire shipping label with details was shared with buyer before shipping..

@vriship one thing I didnt get why you quoted item value of 1000rs only Just to cut costs? Was it discussed between both of you?

 

[iPwnz]

@vriship one thing I didnt get why you quoted item value of 1000rs only Just to cut costs? Was it discussed between both of you?

I got a pic of the package but didn't check the value. Just the tracking number and address.

Just saw the above response. Maybe he was concerned about all that. But none of these would've mattered had the package not been tampered with and reached safely. That was my only expectation. I honestly don't go "what if I get scammed somewhere?" especially if it's from an experienced seller who understands all the basics of shipping. Everything is done in goodwill. Else one wouldn't ever buy anything online. This is a very costly lesson for me. I don't know what else to say.

 

[guest_999]

This is a very costly lesson for me.

How much loss you are looking at?

 

[Nalin]

In my honest opinion one should prefer India Post Registered Delivery for remote areas rather than private options. These post office guys sometime refuse to accept electronics that is their only downside.

 

[vriship]

I got a pic of the package but didn't check the value. Just the tracking number and address.

Just saw the above response. Maybe he was concerned about all that. But none of these would've mattered had the package not been tampered with and reached safely. That was my only expectation. I honestly don't go "what if I get scammed somewhere?" especially if it's from an experienced seller who understands all the basics of shipping. Everything is done in goodwill. Else one wouldn't ever buy anything online. This is a very costly lesson for me. I don't know what else to say.

Guys, the package was not insured, that the buyer was aware of. If the shipment would have reached safe & sound, we wouldn't be having a dedicated thread for this issue would we?. i have not indicated otherwise in any of my messages/ threads/ responses to the buyer. the shipping label was sent seperately as well not just when it was stuck on the package & buyer asked me a few questions over it too:

If Free shipping included insurance then putting the whole Shipping @ buyers risk was meaningless right? check my below quoted post on more details.

To all who have questions on “Shipping at buyers risk” - It means that if you foresee any risk or don't want to take any chances, please opt for insured shipping (paid with a partner of your choice) at your own cost. Almost everyone requests for shipping free or included in sale price.. courier insurances are a hit or a miss and in most cases require purchase invoices too to prove item value. I do realise that this statement might attract negative sentiments but thats the reality…

Now take into consideration the fact that the package was uninsured & there was no purchase invoice available, these are the most common conceptions i could bring the uninsured shipping with high value under some miscreant's radar: as a result there is no understandable benefit of declaring a high value product but not opting for a insured shipment especially when there is no purchase invoice available to substantiate the declared value.

1. Flag the item as high value item & would increase the chances of coming under the radar of miscreants.
2. General requirement of invoice to substantiate the high product value ~ not available for imported or used phones(applies in this case)
3. Increase in the shipping cost associated

To other members: if you cannot read the entire thread or add any value to the conversation, we are wasting time here.. many of the questions being asked are answered already in previous responses.

 

[Faraz]

Personally I have sent laptops worth couple of lakhs to other metro cities through Delhivery multiple times. I now get it why people don't ship packages to North East. Not pointing any fingers on OP but I think the courier guys who delivered the package are responsible.

I have had items missing from delhivery packages sent to Bangalore. They even damaged another insured package and did absolutely nothing, just stopped responding to me, started deleting tickets that i raised in their app. It has nothing to do with where the package is headed and more to do with delhivery employees being absolute crooks.

 

[Emperor]

In my honest opinion one should prefer India Post Registered Delivery for remote areas rather than private options. These post office guys sometime refuse to accept electronics that is their only downside.

I experience lost parcel with India post Speed Post Parcel Service & they offer me refund equal to shipping charges and that too after 6 month. They never accept parcel if you declared it as electronic.

 

[awestorr]

I experience lost parcel with India post Speed Post Parcel Service & they offer me refund equal to shipping charges and that too after 6 month. They never accept parcel if you declared it as electronic.

i have used indian post a couple of time from my local po, they didnt even give me an option to declare anything.
just took addresses from both sides and asked me to use tape to cover the whole package for protection.

 

[iPwnz]

Just wanted to update that the courier has let me known that it's under investigation.

 

[vriship]

Hi All,

Here is a quick update on this topic!! (contrary to the end which most of us has imagined to this shipping theft!)

Basis the information shared from us & Delhivery's internal investigation with the pick up boy who picked up the parcel on 14th March, DELHIVERY HAS RECOVERED THE PHONE FROM THE PICK UP personnel!

One of the person's from Delhivery Security team who I was in daily touch with has shared the recovered device's pictures with me (We are yet to receive official email communication & the phone itself from Delhivery). Communication on next steps awaited too..

Towards what i had started checking at my end with delhivery offices locally, 3 people from Delhivery Bhiwandi centre, all details of the pickup boy who was suspected in pt.A listed below were documented and shared with Delhivery by me including CCTV footage from my main door Security cam along with a boat load of photographs were submitted to them on email:

I had submitted all of the below to Delhivery from my end:
1. Their internal package weight scan snapshot of the parcel taken at Bhiwandi (on 15th March) ~ 560gms
2. Picture of total parcel weight received by @iPwnz ~ 570 gms ( Note: this helped us conclude that there was no swapover of phone midway as the Karbon phone weighed 150 gms & iPhone weighed 195 to 200 gms plus stolen case would be around ~ 40 gms. If in-transit between Bhiwandi swap would have occured, @iPwnz would should have received 100 gms less.
3. Pick up boy's Mygate entry snapshot along with his photo & contact details (i found this very helpful)
4. Weighing snapshots at recipients end, package content pictures from my end & also what recipeint received at his end
5. Door Security cam footage clearly showing the delhivery pick up boy picking the parcel on 14th at 2:50 PM
6. Transit history showing that post pickup from home 30 hours the parcel wasnt scanned
7. Additional internal info of the other pickups history (timings) from 14th March, all of which were scanned within 2 hours in Bhiwandi unlike our shipment which was only scanned after 30 hours i.e. the next evening.

Hoping that the handover steps are as smooth... will keep everyone updated. @iPwnz is already updated regularly of this. Infact the latest update that the phone was recovered was given to him by his local centre's employee over a call today while i only knew of Delhivery's team taking the pickup boy possibly yesterday/today to police station for enquiry..

 

[awestorr]

This is great news.

 

[enthusiast29]

This is amazing. Kudos for the effort by everyone involved.