Graphic Cards AMD HD7XXX Discussion Thread

ALPHA17 said:
^^ The HD 7850 is looking mighty tempting on the charts, lets hope it comes this way at a respectable price.

Then just might buy it to replace my HD 5770, some time ~September -- October. And will not need to sport a new SMPS, viva le AMD!!
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dont be that optimistic dude.. the approximate price is $300 for 7850 and $412 for 7870
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it is supposed to replace 6950 and 6970 it seems
 
An Oced 7850 will compete or beat a 6970 for about 16-18k

An Oced 7870 will compare or beat a gtx580 by 5-10% for 21-24k
 
Official Reviews are out.

7850 $249

Should be priced around Rs.16-18k at launch

7870 $349

Should be priced around Rs.21-24k at launch

7850

Compares with a 6950 at stock. Overclocks 20-30% and then falls in btw a 6970 and GTX 580 at the very least.

7870

Faster than a 6970 or GTX 570 at stock, in most games. Overall, 5-10% slower than a GTX 580 at stock. Once overclocked around 20%+, it beats a GTX 580 and is nearly as fast as a 7950 at stock.

And the best thing is that these cards overclock 20%+ even at stock volts, just like the 7900 series, and they have 100% scaling performance with the overclock, unlike previous ATI cards.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5625/a...uthern-islands[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] Anandtech[/font]

http://hardocp.com/article/2012/03/0...eo_card_review[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] Hardocp[/font]

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] Techpowerup[/font]

http://translate.google.ca/translate...26prmd%3Dimvns[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] Computerbase.de[/font]

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...50-review.html[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] Hardware Canucks[/font]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-ra...d-7870-review/[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,] Guru3D[/font]
 
[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]I would like to add, AMD going back to old pricing need not be entirely because of nVidia. Back in the age of the 9700 Pro to 2900XT, AMD cards were typcially $450-550 for their high end cards and around $200-300 for their mid range parts. And this was like 5-10 years ago.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Perhaps they are going back to their old pricing and 10 years could mean a 10% inflation as well and hence slightly higher prices today compared to 7-8 years back.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]AMD 3xxx series was only a mid range card and hence the prices were low, besides, it was a failure. Even the 2900 series was a failure.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Perhaps AMD bought ATI and hence kept the prices of the 4800 to 6900 series relatively low, with small increments in price each time.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]But now that they are at the peak again, they don't have any reason to pull more people towards them with a better price, they can price equivalent to nvidia and that is what they are doing now.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]IMO , nVidia will probably pull off their single GPU flagship over $650-700 if it is really 15-25% faster, as it did with the GTX 8800 series. So prices won't drop either way.[/font]

[font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]Just my 2 cents.[/font]
 
This is great, however, pricing leaves something to be desired. Agreed, they are pricing it on basis of performance, but wish it was cheaper too.
 
Read the AT review, interesting note about marketing from AMD. Looks like they are pitching this as an upgrade to 5850 while the reviewer thinks that 7950 should be one to go for.

Clearly the pricing is an issue, some competition is needed.
 
The thing is that they are no longer competing for the value title. 6950 to 7870 is not much of an upgrade even after oc. But they are doing this as a side grade plus plus plus at the same price point. They probably want to prepare you for their future GPUs which will be priced like $500-600 for the flagship and $250-400 for mainstream cards, and those cards will probably better than 7xxx series by at least 30-50% for the same price point.

And yes, a 5850 to any 7800 card is a huge upgrade once overclocked.

And on overclocked 7870 is barely slower by a 7950 stock by 5-10% max.

And I am 100% sure that competition from Nvidia won't decrease prices by more than 10-15% because nvidia will price their stuff even higher.
 
rite said:
I would like to add, AMD going back to old pricing need not be entirely because of nVidia. Back in the age of the 9700 Pro to 2900XT, AMD cards were typcially $450-550 for their high end cards and around $200-300 for their mid range parts. And this was like 5-10 years ago.

Perhaps they are going back to their old pricing and 10 years could mean a 10% inflation as well and hence slightly higher prices today compared to 7-8 years back.

AMD 3xxx series was only a mid range card and hence the prices were low, besides, it was a failure. Even the 2900 series was a failure.

Perhaps AMD bought ATI and hence kept the prices of the 4800 to 6900 series relatively low, with small increments in price each time.

But now that they are at the peak again, they don't have any reason to pull more people towards them with a better price, they can price equivalent to nvidia and that is what they are doing now.

IMO , nVidia will probably pull off their single GPU flagship over $650-700 if it is really 15-25% faster, as it did with the GTX 8800 series. So prices won't drop either way.

Just my 2 cents.
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whoa dude where are you getting all this stuff from?? 3xxx series was a failure??? in which universe?? remember 3870??

Also why would AMD want to keep prices low after buying ATI?? absolute no sense in it at all.. the 4850, 4870 were superhit dude.. that was released after 3870 which was another bumper seller.. why would they keep the prices of 48xx series low.. also the 5850 and 5870 were so much in demand that people had to wait 3 months to get it!!! And the 6950 and 6970 were another awesome release.. why would AMD need to sell their graphics card at very low prices when they have cards which trade significant blows with their nvidia counterparts.

The reason for this is not inflation or AMD buying ATI.. they were priced to attack nvidia's releases in their respective price range.. the 4850 was made to counter the 8800GT and 9800GT.. If AMD priced it higher then nvidia's nobody would buy it.. its as simple as that!!

The reason now prices of the 7850 and 7870 are higher because the competing products from nvidia are priced even higher.. when you compare the price of a 7870 to a gtx 570, which it beats and is priced similarly, you will understand the logic.. when nvidia releases products better than them at the similar price range then automatically price will decrease..
 
Nope dude. The 3870 was a mid range card slightly slower than a 9600GT which was a mid range card.

Initially AMD wanted to prove to people that ATI just got better and thus the low pricing to make a come back. With the 6900 series, AMD has already proved that it is good, very good.

The 7900 series is in a league of its own and doesn't need any more convincing for people to buy.

Rest assured, you can expect future AMD cards to be priced around the $500+ mark for their high end stuff, in the coming years.

That proves my point. They are going with a different pricing structure onwards of 7xxx series like they did till 2900xt and before that.

The golden days are over and no matter what nvidia does (and I assure you that it won't be much cheaper than AMD if at all), AMD will have high prices from now on unless they screw the performance with the next gen cards, which is rather unlikely.

And just for your info, your post makes 0 sense
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Whenever a next gen card launches, it is supposed to be 20-50% more performance at the same price point. Not similar performance at a similar price point.

Check any card in the history of the universe. A next gen card is typically the same price and much much much faster, not similarly priced and just a tad faster. If they don't want to launch a new card because of lack of competition, it is cheaper to scrap anything apart from the 7900 series altogether as nobody from a 6900 series will go for a 7800 series any way.

So you don't even know what your talking about
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I dont know about historical cards, but this seems to be priced very well. (An upgrade of 15%-20% performance for same price point i.e. $250, and better cooling is good enough for a next generation card). What gamers/consumers desire (I wish it was cheaper and etc.. ) is different from the actual topic of whether it is priced well. I believe 7850 is indeed very well priced. You need only to compare with previous generation to come to a conclusion.

Also note, these are launch prices without competition (6950 / 6970 prices currently available are stable market prices with enough competition). I dont see how they could have been any more fairer.

Also, I believe, the performance should only improve as better drivers start coming in
 
Drivers probably won't bring in much difference. The 6900 series got on an average 5% performance boost btw launch date and drivers after 1 year. So don't expect much from drivers expect for fixes and bugs
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But this is a new architecture thingie... hasnt Nvidia always performed well right from the outset while AMD cards take multiple updates to perform to the potential ?

The last statement not withstanding, I do recall reading somewhere that the platform was supposed to improve as updates came along. Unfortunately cant quote sources, so you are free to take that with pinches of salt
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What I am indeed more curious to see is what price do we Indians get the 7850 and the 7870 for ? (Personally, am in cue for the 7850, have been putting off an upgrade since December now... was in line for 6950 at that point, hence shifting to 7850 now, still remains a tossup as I see ... inflated launch prices of 7850 + Indian premium vs discounted prices of 6950s as stock needs to be cleared + potential sellers in the market). Any substantiating evidence for the 15k-18k for 7850 ?
 
rite said:
Nope dude. The 3870 was a mid range card slightly slower than a 9600GT which was a mid range card.

Initially AMD wanted to prove to people that ATI just got better and thus the low pricing to make a come back. With the 6900 series, AMD has already proved that it is good, very good.

The 7900 series is in a league of its own and doesn't need any more convincing for people to buy.

Rest assured, you can expect future AMD cards to be priced around the $500+ mark for their high end stuff, in the coming years.

That proves my point. They are going with a different pricing structure onwards of 7xxx series like they did till 2900xt and before that.

The golden days are over and no matter what nvidia does (and I assure you that it won't be much cheaper than AMD if at all), AMD will have high prices from now on unless they screw the performance with the next gen cards, which is rather unlikely.

And just for your info, your post makes 0 sense
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Whenever a next gen card launches, it is supposed to be 20-50% more performance at the same price point. Not similar performance at a similar price point.

Check any card in the history of the universe. A next gen card is typically the same price and much much much faster, not similarly priced and just a tad faster. If they don't want to launch a new card because of lack of competition, it is cheaper to scrap anything apart from the 7900 series altogether as nobody from a 6900 series will go for a 7800 series any way.

So you don't even know what your talking about
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I need to word my stuff better
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..

You do realize that my argument and your post are parallel to each other.. you are also correct but you have totally misundestood my post..
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the points i pointed out were these(i believe i summarize better:))

1. the 3xxx series especially the 3870 was not a failure...

2. Till the 5xxx series AMD's lauches were always after nvidia's lauches, save a few.. a point in example is the release of 4850 to counter nvidia's 9800GT/8800GT and not 9600GT.. The 4850 was released after 9800GT and not before.. this regulated the price of 4850 to 9800GT's level... The 4850 was released specifically to counter nvidia's 9800GT/8800GT.. The same can be said for 4870 also..

So your justification that AMD kept the prices of 4xxx series or for that matter 5xxx and 6xxx series low to attract customers is false.. This is what i want you to understand.. Undertand now
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Prices are affected by many things.. most importantly supply/demand and competition.. Till the 5xxx series AMD's prices were majorly guided by competition, as NVIDIA always released cards first..(the 2900XT is a famous example of this.. it was delayed to such an extent that it ceased to be a competition and so AMD had to quickly release 3xxx series) In the 5xxx series AMD released the 5870 and 5850 first.. the price was initially high because of very low supply and extreme demand.. Then nvidia released the 460GTX and brought the prices of the 5850 back to planet earth
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Then AMD counters with 6870 and 6970(for gtx 480). This continues on and on..

You are right on all the points stated above, such as increased price and performance for newer generations and so on.. but my argument is that AMD's prices have always been quite resonable compared to nvidia's not because they lack customers but because of the above cycle..
 
Hmm... the cycle does make sense, cos AMD always has been price/performance player and never absolute performance. So Nvidia's new gen releases would be providing performance above anything else in market and could easily command premium.

And this time around, despite an earlier release (as compared to Nvidia), the price premium that AMD can command is only at the 7970 level because at every other level, there are existing competent Nvidia products out there (560 ti for 7850, 570 for 7870 etc)... and hence these products are competitively priced...
 
You need to read this excellent piece written over at Anandtech.com by Anand Lal Shimpi himself, tracking how ATi's failure to compete effectively against the nVidia 8*** series [HD 2*** series] and the nVidia GTX 9*** series [HD 3*** series], brought about a change in the designing strategy of the HD 4*** series cards --

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2679

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2937

1) ATi started focussing on the price / performance pie,

2) strict delineation of targets, if a feature being added to the chip was taking in ~1W of juice and providing a <20% increment in actual performance, it was shelved.

3) reaching the market on the right time, releasing cards when the customers will buy it most [Holiday season and Summer vacation time], not when you want to sell it.

4) releasing first in the top-end [to create shock value and marketing base], then in low-end to capitalize on this wave and finally to round of the towards the end mid range to seal market, before competitors have released anything substantial. Ultra low power and OEM editions follow later when competitors are releasing their opening salvos.

5) showing up to fight with something in hand, not WOODGATE which nVidia did on the Fermi launch.

Hope I did not offend anyone, these are strictly my views on the topic.

Now pray that GCN is as worthy as CUDA for productivity. Cheers!!
 
Whatever the past was, doesn't matter. We need to face the fact that AMD HD 8xxx series is going to cost like $500-600 at least as well for the single GPU king unless AMD suddenly falls flat on its face compared to nVidia which seems unlikely considering the fact that nVidia won't be in a position to counter AMD 8xxx as GTX 6xx is already very late to the table.
 
@ALPHA17, as long as they can get the 3rd step (coming to market on optimum time) worked out perfectly, the marketing tactic should work quite well. And so it has with HD 7xxx as can be seen...
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@rite, what makes you say $500-600 for 8xxx ? If you are talking top end, well 7970 is already $550... so nothing extra-ordinary there. The past may be the past as you elegantly put it, but 8xxx is too much into the future to be even discussed, let alone worried about ...

Also, if you believe Nvidia, Kepler is going to be much better than 7xxx (Nvidia says they were disappointed with 7xxx performance) and that should keep the competitive pressure up to keep prices reasonable
 
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