Graphic Cards AMD HD7XXX Discussion Thread

rite said:
Whatever the past was, doesn't matter. We need to face the fact that AMD HD 8xxx series is going to cost like $500-600 at least as well for the single GPU king unless AMD suddenly falls flat on its face compared to nVidia which seems unlikely considering the fact that nVidia won't be in a position to counter AMD 8xxx as GTX 6xx is already very late to the table.
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You did not get it did you, where ATi [now AMD graphics division] is now, is because of this strategy they are not going to trash it just because they are having a streak of success stories.

Until an unless AMD completely suppresses nVidia's capability to compete effectively with it in the top end segment, prices will not reach the exorbitant levels you are speaking of.

cybermantas said:
@ALPHA17, as long as they can get the 3rd step (coming to market on optimum time) worked out perfectly, the marketing tactic should work quite well. And so it has with HD 7xxx as can be seen...
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They have been delivering on time since the release of the AMD HD 58** series cards.

Since then nVidia is reacting to AMD releases, slashing prices, moving up its release schedules et al.

The reacting side can never dominate the war / market, it is the force which controls its opponents move which controls the war / market. For now that force is AMD and they have ample rights to price their cards whatever they want for wont of appropriate competition.

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Too much of Sun Tzu and [/font]
Musashi Miyamoto​
.

P.S. -- cybermantas to tag people use a #before the name not @.
 
I am talking of the single GPU king from AMD for 8xxx, the 8970, that will cost around $500+ assuming that is at least 10-20% faster than the nvidia king when it is launched.
 
rite said:
I am talking of the single GPU king from AMD for 8xxx, the 8970, that will cost around $500+ assuming that is at least 10-20% faster than the nvidia king when it is launched.
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Do you have any guarantee for this OR are we fighting over a hypothetical situation?

AMD is never going to go chasing after the golden crown, it is only the circumstances and media that lionize the release.
 
While I have the same question for "rite" on the pricing, I believe it is premature to say AMD is never going to go after the crown. 7970 is the fastest currently, isnt it ? As for the obvious retort surrounding generations of card release (7xxx being a later generation than 5xx) well whos to say that 5xx and 7xxx are the competiting ones and 6xx competition is 8xxx (6xx launches almost 4 months after 7xxx launch and 8xxx is estimated to be launched by Q4 2012 according to some estimates) ... so the timing between generations is getting fudged and AMD is bridging the gap between its top card and Nvidia's top card, even coming on top at times. So IMO, unneccessary to believe they will not be chasing after the golden crown...
 
cybermantas said:
While I have the same question for "rite" on the pricing, I believe it is premature to say AMD is never going to go after the crown. 7970 is the fastest currently, isnt it ? As for the obvious retort surrounding generations of card release (7xxx being a later generation than 5xx) well whos to say that 5xx and 7xxx are the competiting ones and 6xx competition is 8xxx (6xx launches almost 4 months after 7xxx launch and 8xxx is estimated to be launched by Q4 2012 according to some estimates) ... so the timing between generations is getting fudged and AMD is bridging the gap between its top card and Nvidia's top card, even coming on top at times. So IMO, unneccessary to believe they will not be chasing after the golden crown...
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You contradict your own statement, as you mention the releases are getting more and more rapid and in the form of a cycle [a la Intel's tic toc approach -- http://en.wikipedia....Intel_Tick-Tock].

The fact that AMD releases a new architecture OR a more optimized architecture ~3 months ahead of nVidia promises them a slight edge in outright performance, once nVidia retaliates the same performance king gets transformed to the mass marketable behemoth.

Now AMD never aims for getting the performance Halo but at the more coveted value + performance slot. It is like comparing the AMD HD 6970 vs. GTX 580, sure the nVidia card ran faster, and scored outright higher on synthetic benches but real time situations show that the HD 6970 ~90% of that performance at lesser power consumption.

Now consider AMD launched the HD 7850 [reviews are out and a hard launch by mid of this month] and nVidia comes out with ~300$ card that performs slightly better / similar at end of May, AMD just needs to scale back a wee little on its prices and the HD 7850 which will be coming out at full flow will still retain its hold on the market, compared to the new performance champion Kepler card. And honestly power consumption is something that I dislike about nVidia, I cannot change my Real Power Pro 460W SMPS just because I bought a new graphics card 2 years later.

AMD got its performance, he masses got their value. End of the line.

Hope this explains my stance on this, Cheers!!
 
#ALPHA17 awesome find man. beautiful article..

One more thing... all the stuff about nvidia being dissapointed in AMD is BS.. their competing gpu is having yield problems mainly due to defective process and the power consumption is also way more than expected... so until they release there is no guarantee in nvidia's succesor
 
mrcool63 said:
One more thing... all the stuff about nvidia being dissapointed in AMD is BS.. their competing gpu is having yield problems mainly due to defective process and the power consumption is also way more than expected... so until they release there is no guarantee in nvidia's succesor
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Thanks Sire, I just stumbled on it a few months ago. It explained a lot of AMD's focal areas when it comes to GPU strategy.

About your point -- nvidia being dissapointed in AMD -- did nVidia issue such a press statement, if so. Source(s) please.

nVidia is talking about Kepler since the end of December, nothing solid has come out yet so I will refrain from making any statements. On the contrary AMD Graphics have rolled out the entire R7*** series cards [for the desktop market atleast], by the time nVidia will release GTX 660Ti [as they have designated the first Kepler based card], AMD should have release its notebook variants and OEM parts in the market too, so nVidia has to have something more than just performance up its sleeve.
 
#ALPHA17, do explain how I contradicted my own statement... Also, I did not mention any tick-tock cycle... while there may be something to a tick-tock in GPUs as well, I am not aware of it and neither is it part of my arguement. The quicker cycles referred to mean that even a 3 month dominance period by HD 7950 is relevant enough and takes a little out of the next generation arguement... I am implying that it may not be as easy to say which generation from AMD should compare with which one from Nvidia ... the blurring of generation means that you need to look at an absolute time in the world to see which is the fastest card and for now AMD holds that and hence it is not averse to chasing the Halo...

Ofcourse, if you are implying that HD 7950 is ~90% of GTX 580, thats a different thing (I havent seen this but will accept your facts over my limited research) ... but then again, AMD seems to be narrowing the gap at the top and you may see it trump it in the near future as part of the arguement in the previous para...

As for the performance - value thing that AMD has currently got going, I am definitely not denying that... and the articles you provided the links to (have spent the last hour reading them) also point out to the same thing... it still dont mean that the Halo could not be in their strategy... its still an aspirational crown for any company and giving it up in the medium term for more immediate and relevant goals doesnt mean you stop aspiring for it in the long term...

Bottom line - No one is denying AMDs positioning as the VFM player, but alluding that because of that, it will NEVER vie for the Best performance crown is not correct... unless you have an insight into their future strategy
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#mrcool63, true about Nvidia Kepler issues... both Nvidia trumping AMD 7xxx and Kepler issues are currently marketing and rumour mills working, so yeah, we will know only once it launches...

#ALPHA17, here's the links

http://videocardz.com/30740/nvidia-kepler-is-unbeatable

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/graphics/display/20120125232634_Nvidia_We_Expected_More_from_AMD_Radeon_HD_7970.html
 
cybermantas said:
#ALPHA17, do explain how I contradicted my own statement... Also, I did not mention any tick-tock cycle... while there may be something to a tick-tock in GPUs as well, I am not aware of it and neither is it part of my arguement. The quicker cycles referred to mean that even a 3 month dominance period by HD 7950 is relevant enough and takes a little out of the next generation arguement... I am implying that it may not be as easy to say which generation from AMD should compare with which one from Nvidia ... the blurring of generation means that you need to look at an absolute time in the world to see which is the fastest card and for now AMD holds that and hence it is not averse to chasing the Halo...

Bottom line - No one is denying AMDs positioning as the VFM player, but alluding that because of that, it will NEVER vie for the Best performance crown is not correct... unless you have an insight into their future strategy
<
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I am pulling out the similarity between AMD Graphics rapid release of cards and Intel's tick tock strategy.

Because of the blurring of release dates, the fact is that nVidia cards which would have seemed to have been performing at unbelievable levels on their release loose this sheen because their AMD counterparts have already taken the limelight [shock value and visceral marketing].

I am not saying AMD will not become a leader in terms of sheer performance but, their core market has shifted to mid-range value oriented users who provide the bulk of sales not straight up bench leaders [who are at top crust of the sales and account for say ~10% of all sales]

cybermantas said:
#ALPHA17, here's the links

http://videocardz.co...r-is-unbeatable

http://www.xbitlabs....on_HD_7970.html
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Okay this is unbelievable criticizing the competition when they have nothing to show for themselves apart from 'Leaks'.

It is like the US blaming India and China for current surge in crude prices.

Thanks for the links.
 
I believe your top half of the post actually helps my arguement since you are suggesting that the tick tock takes the sheen out of Intel's releases, by reducing the time and the gap between the top products from the two camps.

I am not saying AMD will not become a leader in terms of sheer performance but, their core market has shifted to mid-range value oriented users who provide the bulk of sales not straight up bench leaders [who are at top crust of the sales and account for say ~10% of all sales]
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You did however say exactly that in the post which sparked all my posts. But yes, I guess you meant to say that their primary focus is on mid-range and not the performance segment, which could be true..

As for Nvidia's comments itselves, it does seem ridiculous the way you put it. However, a lil of it is probably just marketing gimmicks. And the rest, well, if you believe both pieces of information, i.e. they have a better product but are facing yield issues... well what exactly can they do if the launch is still a few months away except pull such marketing stunts ?

In fact, as long as we are limiting ourselves to a world of corporate strategy, I am impressed by Nvidia's move... I myself am now unsure to take the 7850 plunge after March 19 given that Nvidia has a "planned" release in April ... and if they manage to make even a couple of people to stop taking the plunge, then thats a huge win for them...
 
cybermantas said:
In fact, as long as we are limiting ourselves to a world of corporate strategy, I am impressed by Nvidia's move... I myself am now unsure to take the 7850 plunge after March 19 given that Nvidia has a "planned" release in April ... and if they manage to make even a couple of people to stop taking the plunge, then thats a huge win for them...
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They said that for Fermi too, the first mid-range Fermi outing GTX 465 [http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/graphics/display/geforce-gtx-465.html / http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_465/ / http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_GTX_465/33.html] was a damp squib that sucked a lot of power, customers had to wait for a further 2 months to get GTX 460 which was a good balance of power / performance, by then market is flooded with AMD's own HD 5850 which consumes lesser power, performs same and by then was available in a multitude of flavours [HIS IceQ edition --> for silence freaks, Sapphire Toxic and MSi HAWKs for over-clocking junkies].

Moral of the story nVidia goes Top to bottom, while AMD goes Top --> bottom --> middle and covers the market better.

And I am waiting till September maximum to give nVidia a chance although I have made my mind to get the AMD card, mostly because of its better efficiency and effective power throttling. I do not have the means to buy a new card + a new SMPS + a 1TB hard drive [in any order of things].
 
September is a huge timeframe, I am sure you will get the most out of it.. as for me, my second hand 4870 has lasted me all that it could (since Sep 2010) and with an ancient machine (June 2007), I am overdue for an upgrade by 6 months... the SB vs Ivy and the 6xxx vs 7xxx debate kept on pushing things until so long... now that 7850 is a winner product, I will get settled within the month ... IVy or SB, 6 series or 7...

And yeah, the 1 TB definitely doesnt make any sense...
 
cybermantas said:
And yeah, the 1 TB definitely doesnt make any sense...
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I meant I have plans to acquire a new card [mostly leaning for a AMD 7850 2Gb for now, if nVidia can do something nice otherwise carry on].

Plus I have to buy a new hard drive to supplement my 2 x 320GB in RAID 0 for DATA REDUNDANCY and through all this I do not have the means to spend on a new SMPS.
 
ALPHA17 said:
Do you have any guarantee for this OR are we fighting over a hypothetical situation?

AMD is never going to go chasing after the golden crown, it is only the circumstances and media that lionize the release.
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exactly..

moreover, there is no point in talking about something even AMD is not bothered about currently.. 8xxx series??
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ah this argument is epic..
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i am forced to click like on all your posts #ALPHA17 and #cybermantas
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however both of you have valid points guys..

#ALPHA17 AMD is also vying for the top spot and in recent times it is holding or trying to hold the crown for a while unlike earlier.. point in question is the 5990 and 6990.. both dual gpu and both top of the line in their time.. their counters especially the 590gtx from nvidia was an abysmal failure in terms of power usage, blowing up vrm's and what not.. also performance wise the 6990 was better than 590gtx.. so overall the performance crown is also amd's for the last generation..

however #cybermantas AMD is still predominantly a mid-segment company.. just see its lineup and you will know.. the 6450, 6770, 6750, 6790, 6850, 6870, 6950 1gb etc.,.. The only cards to counter these in nvidia is 550Ti and 560Ti/ non Ti and older gen cards which have significantly more power consumption and lesser performance.. So AMD's strategy is still the same(to borrow from alpha
<
) top --- bottom --- middle.. Their performance crown is an added prize
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Did the 7850's start shipping through out?? Is there any online store which is having their stock already in the market? when are they expected to be readily available??

Do we have any better editions like twinfrozen coming up or announced??
 
rakesh_ic said:
Did the 7850's start shipping through out?? Is there any online store which is having their stock already in the market? when are they expected to be readily available??

Do we have any better editions like twinfrozen coming up or announced??
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Hard launch is ~15 March in the US, expect to hit Indian shores ~end March, early April
 
Any idea when can I buy the 7850 in Bangalore? The shop owners have no idea about when it'll launch. The offcial international launch is supposed to be on 19th March. Will it hit shores here by the end of march or we'll have to wait a wee bit longer?
 
blkrb0t said:
The offcial international launch is supposed to be on 19th March. Will it hit shores here by the end of march or we'll have to wait a wee bit longer?
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Most chances it should be in India by the end of March, in the worst case scenario this can be delayed to ~mid April.

Hope this clears the dust. Cheers!!
 
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