"BarkhaGate" Scandal
- Thread starter Darthcoder
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bir_p
I really cannot comment on barkha dutt coz I don’t watch television.I had heard of her when she muzzled the blogger chyetanya kunte.I read about it in wikileaks of all the places.I rarely read the print versions of the newspapers.This much I know though cannot substantiate it with proofs.I know I will get a lot of flak for this but I tend to follow arundhati roys thinking on corruption and the utilization of resources.(I don’t subscribe to extreme views of arundhati if that is any consolation ).
Basically this is the way I look at things.Where money is there corruption tends to follow.India is a weakly governed state.Because of this fact people can form alliances to prop up their interests.The people have vested interests in the same system continuing.They know nothing will happen.How many politicians have gone to jail(except for papu yadav and a few others).The System is like this.
Corporates fund the elections.The politicians set the policy according to the corporate wishes.This is where the lobbyists come in.The corporates also fund the media houses through advertisements,equities etc.The politicians show patronage to the media so that adverse news is not published.In between the bureaucrats (pen pushers) will toe the ministers wishes as they wish/desire to continue until death at the helm of some psu.So in all it is a circle wherein each one looks after the other because it is in their own interest.
Who are the fools?The people who vote for these politicians,people like us who discuss and debate these issues because at the end of the day nothing is going to happen.As waren buffett says in a game of poker after half an hour if you do not know who is the patsy then you are the patsy.
This is what I feel.We have good people but they are not allowed to succeed.They do not get support from the masses.To get support we need some good media but unfortunately good media will run into trouble like tehelka more recently and like Indian express in the past.
So I feel there is no point in supporting people like barkha dutt et al.India has been sold out and I don’t think it can regain its true potential. Ofcourse there will be a few sops given to people so that they can be mollified.As I said in an earlier discussion you and I are in a minority and so we don’t count.
I really cannot comment on barkha dutt coz I don’t watch television.I had heard of her when she muzzled the blogger chyetanya kunte.I read about it in wikileaks of all the places.I rarely read the print versions of the newspapers.This much I know though cannot substantiate it with proofs.I know I will get a lot of flak for this but I tend to follow arundhati roys thinking on corruption and the utilization of resources.(I don’t subscribe to extreme views of arundhati if that is any consolation ).
Basically this is the way I look at things.Where money is there corruption tends to follow.India is a weakly governed state.Because of this fact people can form alliances to prop up their interests.The people have vested interests in the same system continuing.They know nothing will happen.How many politicians have gone to jail(except for papu yadav and a few others).The System is like this.
Corporates fund the elections.The politicians set the policy according to the corporate wishes.This is where the lobbyists come in.The corporates also fund the media houses through advertisements,equities etc.The politicians show patronage to the media so that adverse news is not published.In between the bureaucrats (pen pushers) will toe the ministers wishes as they wish/desire to continue until death at the helm of some psu.So in all it is a circle wherein each one looks after the other because it is in their own interest.
Who are the fools?The people who vote for these politicians,people like us who discuss and debate these issues because at the end of the day nothing is going to happen.As waren buffett says in a game of poker after half an hour if you do not know who is the patsy then you are the patsy.
This is what I feel.We have good people but they are not allowed to succeed.They do not get support from the masses.To get support we need some good media but unfortunately good media will run into trouble like tehelka more recently and like Indian express in the past.
So I feel there is no point in supporting people like barkha dutt et al.India has been sold out and I don’t think it can regain its true potential. Ofcourse there will be a few sops given to people so that they can be mollified.As I said in an earlier discussion you and I are in a minority and so we don’t count.
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Yeah, i was toying with this idea, create a diversion but thought it unrealistic.guru said:
BTW, Vikram's 'The Big Fight' is turning out to be better than the usual. It coming across as quite genuine. Catch it later tonight if you missed it.
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Johnie watch today's 'The big fight' when it re-airs, all your points have been adressed there.
This is why i do not support libel or defamation because it is (ab)used more often to stifle dissent.johnie1 said:
This is why Subramanyam Swamy brought up the idea of an independent prosecutor, he used the example of Bernie Madoff in the US who bilked ppl to the tune of $50billion and yet he was convicted within 6 months. More ppl need to question why that does not happen in India.johnie1 said:
Yet all the TV channels are going on about nothing other than corruption for the last week. It's been pretty sustained. Gives one the hope something might, just might change this time around.johnie1 said:
okjohnie1 said:
This is the dangerous thing. That corruption is accompanied by indifference with the citizens. That indifference is brought on by cyncism that nothing ever improves. If more ppl believe it then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We go deeper into the ditchjohnie1 said:
This tells me there is an opportunity waiting to be grabbed by someone that is willing to take the risk.johnie1 said:
I don't know about you but the way these issues are being debated out there is good. But thats not enough, ppl want action. Only way to get it is to continually agitate for it. And for that ppl have to believe the system can be improved and not give up and say its useless. The cynic cannot win otherwise we all lose.johnie1 said:
Yet all the TV channels are going on about nothing other than corruption for the last week. It's been pretty sustained. Gives one the hope something might, just might change this time around.
flavour of the week.No other stories of interest.will get lot of eyeballs,hence the trp ratings will zoom,lots of advertisement moolah,raise the bp of excited people and after a month or so it becomes stale news,then they will hunt for a story about arundhati,or some thing to grab the trp again,again the cycle continues.Because of huge advts prices of the items being hawked rises and guess what who pays?.The poor public.What did they do?.They watched the show,What did they get?.They came to know that someone(insert name of a scrapegoat) scammed them,their health is damaged(of excited people both intellectually and physically)and they have to pay for the expensive items they watched along with the show.Who wins.Both the advts,the channels,the participants etc.
nah it will not change this time.u know what will change.death squads.nothing else.why.everything is rotten.the judiciary,the executive,the legislature and the poor fodder of the state the enforcers.
This is the dangerous thing. That corruption is accompanied by indifference with the citizens. That indifference is brought on by cyncism that nothing ever improves. If more ppl believe it then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We go deeper into the ditch.
cosmetic changes will be made ofcourse.The media will congratulate themselves,people will be happy and everything will go on.The sun will shine,The rain will rain,the birds if there are any will sing etc.We ofcourse are in the ditch but how far will we go i have no idea.Whole system is rotten.Changes i cannot see in the near future.so cynicism is better than false hope dont you think?.
This tells me there is an opportunity waiting to be grabbed by someone that is willing to take the risk.
bir_p in a ideal scenario i would have agreed with your statement.When a need arises a solution will be found.That is what has brought us progress.From the invention of the wheel to the steam engine and beyond.What an opportunity there is for sure.In our present scenario if truth be told and someone is willing to bell the cat then he will be crushed.No doubts about it.Just take the case of tehelka.They were hounded with tax issues and beyond.They are a caricature of what they used to be in the past.
I don't know about you but the way these issues are being debated out there is good. But thats not enough, ppl want action. Only way to get it is to continually agitate for it. And for that ppl have to believe the system can be improved and not give up and say its useless. The cynic cannot win otherwise we all lose.
bir_p sure things are debated.continually agitate?.What happened to bofors?.The scorpio deal?et al.Nothing is going to happen.We already have lost.bir_p once upon a time i also used to be encouraged by the politics of agitation,the new faces coming in bringing in hope only to be dashed to pieces.The new lot were worse than the old.(I am talking of the vp singh wave in 1990)vp singh riding a bullet,travelling through the hinterlands of india,energising the masses,dethronement of ajitabh and amitabh bacchan,the fall of rajiv gandhi etc.What did vp singh bring?.people burning themselves,the rise of lallu,etc.
flavour of the week.No other stories of interest.will get lot of eyeballs,hence the trp ratings will zoom,lots of advertisement moolah,raise the bp of excited people and after a month or so it becomes stale news,then they will hunt for a story about arundhati,or some thing to grab the trp again,again the cycle continues.Because of huge advts prices of the items being hawked rises and guess what who pays?.The poor public.What did they do?.They watched the show,What did they get?.They came to know that someone(insert name of a scrapegoat) scammed them,their health is damaged(of excited people both intellectually and physically)and they have to pay for the expensive items they watched along with the show.Who wins.Both the advts,the channels,the participants etc.
nah it will not change this time.u know what will change.death squads.nothing else.why.everything is rotten.the judiciary,the executive,the legislature and the poor fodder of the state the enforcers.
This is the dangerous thing. That corruption is accompanied by indifference with the citizens. That indifference is brought on by cyncism that nothing ever improves. If more ppl believe it then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. We go deeper into the ditch.
cosmetic changes will be made ofcourse.The media will congratulate themselves,people will be happy and everything will go on.The sun will shine,The rain will rain,the birds if there are any will sing etc.We ofcourse are in the ditch but how far will we go i have no idea.Whole system is rotten.Changes i cannot see in the near future.so cynicism is better than false hope dont you think?.
This tells me there is an opportunity waiting to be grabbed by someone that is willing to take the risk.
bir_p in a ideal scenario i would have agreed with your statement.When a need arises a solution will be found.That is what has brought us progress.From the invention of the wheel to the steam engine and beyond.What an opportunity there is for sure.In our present scenario if truth be told and someone is willing to bell the cat then he will be crushed.No doubts about it.Just take the case of tehelka.They were hounded with tax issues and beyond.They are a caricature of what they used to be in the past.
I don't know about you but the way these issues are being debated out there is good. But thats not enough, ppl want action. Only way to get it is to continually agitate for it. And for that ppl have to believe the system can be improved and not give up and say its useless. The cynic cannot win otherwise we all lose.
bir_p sure things are debated.continually agitate?.What happened to bofors?.The scorpio deal?et al.Nothing is going to happen.We already have lost.bir_p once upon a time i also used to be encouraged by the politics of agitation,the new faces coming in bringing in hope only to be dashed to pieces.The new lot were worse than the old.(I am talking of the vp singh wave in 1990)vp singh riding a bullet,travelling through the hinterlands of india,energising the masses,dethronement of ajitabh and amitabh bacchan,the fall of rajiv gandhi etc.What did vp singh bring?.people burning themselves,the rise of lallu,etc.
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I don't follow, its the advtisers that fund the shows. Where is public money in any of this ?johnie1 said:
WE are the product, the advtiser is the customer.
Again why did the public pay anything ?johnie1 said:
Excellent, so how long till the collapse ?johnie1 said:
Hope is what keeps us alive, hope is the last thing that goes before dying. So if there is no hope, we must be close to dying, how long till that happens and we begin the next life ?johnie1 said:
The verdict isn't yet in on the 2g scam, so if nothing happens then it wasnt big enough.johnie1 said:
How about the india before liberalisation and the one after ?johnie1 said:
The only reason we liberalised is because we went bankrupt. The system had to fail before it could be reformed. In that case if 2G is not sufficient to change anything, we need a bigger scam, that will dwarf it
don't follow, its the advtisers that fund the shows. Where is public money in any of this ?
WE are the product, the advt is the customer.
Its like this.The advertisers fund the show paying huge amounts to the channel like for 10sec slot they may pay 20 lakhs(donno the exact figure)So the advertisers pay a huge amount.Now ofcourse they have to recoup the spent money?.How do you think they recoup the lost money?They increase the price of the product(not much no no one will notice much),decrease the contents of the product(again not much maybe by 5gms )etc.What the public do not understand is there aint any free lunch.The public buys the things hawked on telly.Not 100 percent of course but a certain amount of people do buy the things.
for advertisers/their impact on society I recommend an excellent documentry by Adam Curtis titled Century of the Self if you can find it.
Hope I agree is the biggest salve a person can have.A abused wife thinks nay hopes her drunken husband will not beat her/The debt laden farmer hopes that the moneylender does not harass his family after he commits suicide/the student hopes he will atleast clear the exam etc.In some cases it is justified when the outcome is dicey but when the outcome is certain then what is the need for hope?.
Do you see a revolution happening in india?Does the public mood suggest something drastic might happen?.No I dont think so.The bottom line is MMS govt has got another 3 and half years to go.They care a hoot what happens now.They will think about this issue or whatever is the burning issue of the day only when an election comes.So what is the use of hope?.
I wish and hope what you think comes true but my logical mind disagrees and says nothing much is going to happen.
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bir_p I think we are deviating from the main topic started by darthcoder.
WE are the product, the advt is the customer.
Its like this.The advertisers fund the show paying huge amounts to the channel like for 10sec slot they may pay 20 lakhs(donno the exact figure)So the advertisers pay a huge amount.Now ofcourse they have to recoup the spent money?.How do you think they recoup the lost money?They increase the price of the product(not much no no one will notice much),decrease the contents of the product(again not much maybe by 5gms )etc.What the public do not understand is there aint any free lunch.The public buys the things hawked on telly.Not 100 percent of course but a certain amount of people do buy the things.
for advertisers/their impact on society I recommend an excellent documentry by Adam Curtis titled Century of the Self if you can find it.
Hope I agree is the biggest salve a person can have.A abused wife thinks nay hopes her drunken husband will not beat her/The debt laden farmer hopes that the moneylender does not harass his family after he commits suicide/the student hopes he will atleast clear the exam etc.In some cases it is justified when the outcome is dicey but when the outcome is certain then what is the need for hope?.
Do you see a revolution happening in india?Does the public mood suggest something drastic might happen?.No I dont think so.The bottom line is MMS govt has got another 3 and half years to go.They care a hoot what happens now.They will think about this issue or whatever is the burning issue of the day only when an election comes.So what is the use of hope?.
I wish and hope what you think comes true but my logical mind disagrees and says nothing much is going to happen.
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bir_p I think we are deviating from the main topic started by darthcoder.
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But no one forces you to buy their products. If they price themsevles out of the market then they will lose out. Companies that do not advertise as much will give you better value. But that is not always true because they sell a lot less as well.johnie1 said:
Seen it already, its on archive.org.johnie1 said:
Interesting, but the impact was more in less free societies than not. Talks about propaganda etc. The only solution to that is choice and more selection in the media.
Wait, so there is a collapse coming or not, then why has everybody lost hope ?johnie1 said:
I had this discussion elsewhere over whether corruption has increased or not compared to the past. You know what ? it has not, its more or less the same but the amounts changing hands have grown.
If this 2g scam is not enough then we need more bigger ones before things change.
today's big fight was quiet funny especially when suhel seth asked dmk's spokesperson repeatedly that
"can anything happen in dmk without karunanidhi's"
the stupid dmk guy accepted it :lol:
also swamy made good points like
bernie madoffs case
Btw who taped these conversations??
IT dept
"can anything happen in dmk without karunanidhi's"
the stupid dmk guy accepted it :lol:
also swamy made good points like
bernie madoffs case
Btw who taped these conversations??
IT dept
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This is a very good reason why we need more freedom of speech in this country.broadway said:
I can hear her saying it but did she really ? authencity ? what ? when ?
Given all the text that scrolls around making all those suggestions
Oh and here's the summary of the topic title..
Colluding & fixing, yeah right
being the messenger is more like it.And I never got the chance to thank you for summarising those tapes.
Barkha claims that radia is her source. She helps her stay ahead of the other networks. Lets for argument, say, barkha compensates radia partly with money and partly by passing information.
Only problem is that barkha isn't "just passing information". She is plotting along with radia. So when radia tells barkha that MMS is angry with baalu for making the withdrawal public, barkha doesn't just note that down. She asks radia, "what she should do?". Barkha is taking active part in the plotting process. She is part of the people who change the course of events that favour congress. Meeting azad in the private. Getting "promises" from the congress that azad will talk to kanimozhi. What kind of a journalist is this? How can you say she is just passing information? Her exercise constitutes more than "just lobbying".
Only problem is that barkha isn't "just passing information". She is plotting along with radia. So when radia tells barkha that MMS is angry with baalu for making the withdrawal public, barkha doesn't just note that down. She asks radia, "what she should do?". Barkha is taking active part in the plotting process. She is part of the people who change the course of events that favour congress. Meeting azad in the private. Getting "promises" from the congress that azad will talk to kanimozhi. What kind of a journalist is this? How can you say she is just passing information? Her exercise constitutes more than "just lobbying".
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Thing is how often does this happen ? only near elections or when there's a big story and she has to hook up with the right ppl so that she comes out ahead of the other networks. Is she still going to spin the story ? of course like every other anchor out there.broadway said:
Oh and no money changes hands, its all quid pro quo. Give her what she wants and she passes the info along and may even try to persuade them. It would not surprise me if she went out of the way to be useful & helpful as her job depends on it. There is also the point that she can't get too close to one party, what happens if the opposition wins, she has to be in good books with everyone likely to win. Incidentally how was she as a reporter during the NDA regime ? or was she too junior at that time.
I realise you can intepret this also in the same way wrt to her public reports, persuade us to see something else. But that would take more brains to pull off than she has I think. In the end she will be beholden to whatever her boss wants.
I see that as more how to handle the parties she is going to talk with rather than conflict resolution. Resovling conflicts isn't in her power.broadway said:
Radia wants a certain outcome and if the other is not willing then how to persuade them better and vice-versa. She's a go between. As a result she must have a very good idea of what goes on but she can only talk to us about what won't get herself into trouble. When she publishes her memoirs in the future there should be quite a sordid tale or two to tell. What we read & hear about is only the tip of the iceberg, all the scheming and fiddling that goes behind the scenes is invisible, in govt as well as in corporations.
ok so what can she really do then ?broadway said:
She can't 'fix' how things happen in Congress can she and even then the 'fixing' bit is what the party troubleshooters & strategists do. All Politicans want is a certain outcome so its upto the staff to make it happen. You can't seriously believe that she has the power to change Congress mind on any policy. You're giving her more credit than she deserves
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