User Review Bosch SMS60L12IN Dishwasher Review

I was in search of dishwasher reviews for the past couple of years, specially from Indian users.
I couldn't find much except for a review or two on YouTube, but they were not in detail for me to take the plunge.

Finally I bit the bullet and bought a Bosch SMS60L12IN from Amazon for 31.5k.

I'd summarize few points which might be useful for prospective buyers.
This review applies to all dishwashers in general since all the models from different brands sold in India are more or less with similar specs.

Which Brand?
  • AFAIK Bosch, IFB, Siemens, LG & Samsung sell dishwashers in India.

  • Bosch has only one model in two colors with different model numbers.
    People quoted that the silver model is an upgraded one with water saving features blah blah blah.
    But I verified the specs and both are in fact color variants of same model.

    Siemens has a model or two IIRC, but they are priced higher and share 90% of the components with Bosch. Both are sold and serviced by same channels too.

  • IFB has 5-6 models, out of which all the models have 12 place holders except the top of the line Neptune SX1, which has 15 place holders. This particular model has extra pullout basket for small cutlery, which is of practical use. I later found out how significant this feature is (More on this later).

  • LG and Samsung sell one model each, which are priced higher and I doubt their after sales service w.r.t dishwashers.

  • I found build quality to be better in Bosch.

  • In terms of service I heard/found Bosch to be better, can't comment on the spares availability/cost of spares at this moment. There are many horror stories about IFB service, so I stayed out of this brand.
Purchase and Installation

  • For months, I pestered almost all major stores for a demo and no one gave a positive reply. Croma, Bajaj electronics have a Bosch demo dishwasher with transparent window to see how the dishwasher works etc, but they never showed interest in showing a demo as well.

  • All of them were offering a discount of 1-2 k, so I chose Amazon as I was getting it for almost 8k discount on MRP. These store guys were selling very old stocks, but the one I ordered from Amazon was imported in Dec 2016. I think all Bosch dishwashers sold in India are made in Turkey.

  • I got a installation request acknowledgement from Bosch on the very next day I ordered on Amazon. They had been following up for installation even before it was delivered from Amazon and installation was done within hours of delivery. Satisfied with the overall purchase and installation experience.

  • There is nothing complicated about installation, just connecting the inlet hose and proper drainage for drain pipe. The purpose of waiting for installation is more or less to verify damage and to avail warranty.

  • Also ours is a free standing unit, if you want to integrate this into kitchen, you might need to get some additional work done to mount the machine into place.

What are these three cleaning agents?
  • A dishwasher needs a combination of three cleaning agents. Using all three( Salt+Detergent+Rinse Aid ) is the key to perfectly washed dishes. You can use any brand of dishwasher cleaning agents, as long as they are dishwasher compatible.

    Bosch recommends "Finish" products, which are imported and cost a bomb when compared to other brands. IFB sells their own brand of cleaning agents.

    We personally use & recommend Fortune Products >> http://fortunedishwashing.com/
    They are cheaper compared to imported brands.
    I compared the wash quality with Finish and I couldn't find any difference.
    Many Bosch/IFB users gave similar feedback about Fortune products.
    They are not easily available in super markets, but you can order from their website or their Amazon store.

  • What are these three cleaning agents anyway?
    • Salt - Don't confuse this for normal table salt.
      This is special salt, used to convert hard water into soft water which prevents hard water stains(white powdery stains) on the dishes. It is mandatory if your water hardness is medium to high. Depending on your dishwasher model, you can adjust the salt dispensing levels.

      You don't need to refill salt for every wash, you need to refill once in a month or two based on usage.In our case, we use dishwasher everyday and we need to refill it once a month with 1KG of salt. Cost of refill is around Rs. 100 per KG.

      http://fortunedishwashing.com/product/fortune-dishwasher-salt/

    • Detergent - As the name suggests, these are detergents specially made for dishwashers.
      You need to fill the detergent for every wash, just like a washing machine.

      http://fortunedishwashing.com/product/fortune-dishwasher-detergent-1-kg-pack/

    • Rinse Aid - It is a special liquid used to reduce the surface tension of water, so that water won't stick on the dishes during rinsing. This actually makes a lot of difference to the final wash quality. If you don't use it, then the dishes would have water droplet stains and white stains.

      You might have to refill rinse aid every 10 washes on average. So a 500ml Rinse Aid should be sufficient for a month or two, if you use the dishwasher daily.

      http://fortunedishwashing.com/product/fortune-rinse-aid/

      You can buy a combo pack of all three, which is more in tune with the usage cycle.
      http://fortunedishwashing.com/produ...tarter-combo-pack-free-descaler-worth-rs-150/

    • All in one Tablets - If you are lazy and don't want to buy all three of them and refill every time. These all in one tablets come with a combo of Detergent/Salt & Rinse aid all in a single tablet. You will need to use one tablet per wash.

      Manual says that if your water hardness is medium to high, then you would still need to use salt in addition to these tablets. I've tried to use tablet alone and the results weren't great. Ended up using the additional salt as well. So I won't recommend tablets, plus these are costly compared to the purchasing the individual detergents.

      For example, this costs almost 1200 for 34 tablets >> http://www.amazon.in/Finish-All-Max-Powerball-Tablets/dp/B01ET6E9XE?tag=googinhydr18418-21

Stacking the dishes and Usage
  • You need to dump all left over food particles from the utensils. Soaking is not necessary for normal utensils. Wok's on which deep fries are done, would wash well with soaking.

  • Plates go into plate holders and large dishes go on bottom rack.
    Small plates, cups, small utensils go into the top rack. There is a free standing basket for cutlery into which you place all the ladles, forks & spoons. But using this basket is tricky, as it can be placed only on bottom basket and is difficult to fit in if the bottom layer is full. This is where extra basket in IFB Neptune SX1 comes handy. Otherwise you are forced to use the assorted holder in the top rack for placing spoons and forks.

  • All dishes should be facing downwards on the racks and should not be stacked on top of other.
    Stacking the dishes is tricky and time taking for the first few runs till you get the hang of it.

  • Once you are done stacking, check for the refill indicators. Only for the first use you need to fill the salt and rinse aid. Post that you need to fill them only if the respective refill indicator is lit.
    As I had mentioned earlier, refill cycle is roughly once a month for salt and once every 10 - 15 washes for Rinse Aid (100-150ml per refill).

  • Now comes the wash options, depending on the model there will be Auto, Eco and Intense modes.
    We normally use Eco and Auto modes and are yet to use Intense kadai mode.
    Since water temperature goes to around 70 degrees, we never risked using that mode owing to plastic boxes in the wash.

    Auto/Eco modes usually take 1.5 hrs for the cycle to finish.

    Unlike a washing machine, there is no lock for the door, no sound indicators for the wash completion.
    You can open the door in the middle of wash, it automatically pauses and resumes once the door is shut. But avoid opening the door as the vapor that spews out is very hot.

    Once the wash cycle is done, machine turns itself off without any buzzer.
Wash Quality
  • Aluminium, Wood and plastics which are not dishwasher compatible should not be used in dishwasher according to manual. I tried aluminium dishes, they got cleaned properly, but are slightly discolored and have white stains even after rinse aid is used. So I won't recommend using aluminium utensils.
    I've used wooden spatula's and wash is fine.

    Silverware, steel, glass and food grade plastics are washed perfectly. Shine on the utensils and the squeaky noise from the clean dishes is so satisfying.

  • Specially if you are using Tupperware boxes for carrying lunch, the difference in wash quality is reason enough for you to buy a dishwasher. Even those sticky oil stains are washed perfectly, leaving the boxes squeaky clean. When we used to wash the dishes manually, getting the oil stains from plastic boxes is a nightmare and oil stains never used to go off.
Power Consumption
  • This particular model is rated at 1.5KW, but I guess that rating is only for the heating element.
    Never calculated the actual usage, but should be on par with any washing machine if not less.
    There is no significant spike in electricity bill, so I never bothered to check the power usage in detail.

I will add a few pictures later today, of the dishwasher and utensils before/after wash.

My parents were reluctant to get rid of the maid and get a dishwasher instead. They were apprehensive about the performance earlier, but after looking at the wash quality, even they are on the scout for a dishwasher. Since I know the practical advantages of an extra rack, I'm pushing for IFB Neptune SX1 and will update this review accordingly if we end up buying that.


This is how dishwasher was delivered by Amazon. Luckily no damages.

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A few pics from yesterday's wash cycle.

Notice that refill rinse aid indicator is lit. It's been almost 3 weeks since last refill.

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After refill, with the indicator off.

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After the wash cycle.
Those plastic flap like things you see at the bottom of the pic is where you add the detergent and the rinse aid.
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Bottom rack, where plates and large utensils usually go.

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Top rack. Since the bottom rack is full and we couldn't fit the small cutlery basket, We had to improvise and use the Etagere for small cutlery.

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Notice how the stainless steel utensils are shiny. If you don't use rinse aid, there will be a cloudy layer of water droplet marks over them.

I'll do a set of before/after wash pics of dishes, once I get some time over the weekend.
 
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Powders suck, whether used in hot or cold water. If one only uses porcelain, plastic, plates/cups anything will work since you cannot see any stains. But on a stainless steel plates and vessels every stain is visible including water stains.
For tea stains, the fortune tablets used to do a okay job but they fail to make stainless steel milk vessel spotless. Only the most expensive tablets are able to achieve this 9 out of 10 times.
I've good result with Vim powder. Its cheaper compared to Finish too. You can give it a try
 

Decent performance if dosed properly

View attachment 200152

Made in France by HUL. So technically it's not an import and this is a big name.

Does it pass the fizz test?
How's fortune detergent?
I've used up the two finish tablet which came with the machine and the wash quality was pretty good with them. The Bosch detergent I bought was like cement when exposed to moisture, it was like a brick. I ran an eco wash with it and it was okay-good.

Anyone with bosch dishwasher confirm if this lower panel is loose/shaky
20240626_125624.jpg
 
How's fortune detergent?
I've used up the two finish tablet which came with the machine and the wash quality was pretty good with them. The Bosch detergent I bought was like cement when exposed to moisture, it was like a brick. I ran an eco wash with it and it was okay-good.
Bosch detergent is manufactured by Fortune only. It's just rebranded at double price.
 
Is big basket available for you?

Their store brand is the same as fortune but goes for less
Not available in my area.
In Amazon it's available
Any manufacture /expiry date on the box.

Can you post a photo of the back so we can see where it was made etc
Will post later at night
Bosch detergent is manufactured by Fortune only. It's just rebranded.
Oh!
I checked out finish but they're a little costly
 
Yes, been digging around and I got sonething

Vim Matic.jpg
Sun Classic powder.jpg

Look pretty similar don't they :cool:

So Vim is a rebadge of this Euro Sun classic dishwasher product that Unilever makes in France.


Ingredients
Ingredients: 5-15%: oxygen bleach, <5%: polycarboxylates, nonionic surfactants, phosphonates, perfume, enzymes
It's got oxygen bleach and enzymes that go after fat.

Still waiting on that fizz test? Anyone?
 
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It's the same deal with the Vim tabs. But these are a step up from classic with the all in one. Still advisable to use salt & rinse aid 'for best results'

So why bother with 'all in one' anything at all :bored:

Ingredients


French

^bet this one is near expired as the graphics seem older
How's fortune detergent?
Going by Bhuvana's replies. Finish works well in soft to medium water but not in hard water. So out of the question for you

Fortune, bosch (relabeled fortune) & Vim work better in harder water
 

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Water stains is a hard water and rinse aid issue. Assuming the powder isn't expired.
Yes, but since the water hardness keep changing every few weeks. Its kind a hard to get consistent results with salt settings and rinse aid settings. This machine goes through salt and rinse aid like its no tomorrow, even at lowest setting. Salt refill interval also varies based on the brand, shape of the salt. With a tablet you don't need to worry about this, it just works every single time.

From what I can tell people are complaining about expired powder where expiry date is purposely removed by the seller. The powder is all clumped up in the bottle. I once noticed this with some bosch washing machine cleaner that was a few years old. Poured some water on a sample and was surprised to see it become like cement.

This means only locally produced like Excel rasayan is reliable. All the other powders like finish, bosch etc are imported and if the dates aren't clearly shown are expired. Nice scam these amazon sellers have because these items are all non returnable.

To test the powder put a small amount in a container and mix with water. It should dissolve and not clump. If it does then discard the box.
The powder used was not expired.

The problem is the lack of competition in the dishwasher detergents segment compared to in the washing machines space where it has always been cut throat. Not enough people own dishwashers to entice more players into making something locally
HUL, PG, Reckitt etc all sell other products in India. But for dishwasher stuff, other then salt, they continue to import it. Guess once the demand is more they may start making them in India. But I doubt the prices will drop, since the Front load detergent keeps getting expensive.

If it contains percarbonate I would store it in an airtight container. To test whether it does put 5gm in a flask and pour boiling water. Then watch for foam and listen for a fizz. If that's not there then it doesn't contain percarbonate.

Which then means washing aluminium vessels won't be a problem as there is nothing to oxidise it.

Tea stains require percarbonate to remove. When I looked at the ingredients for finish powder on RB's UK site was surprised to find it didn't contain any. I was thinking of using it clean washing machines. Won't work without oxygen bleach.

You can make any stainless steel container spotless with a tsp (5gm) of Vanish powder in boiled water. Leave it for an hour. Works like magic.

Trouble is you can't use Vanish in a dishwasher. It will foam up too much. Adding plain percarbonate to detergent causes the same problem as well


Incidentally to remove milk stuck to the bottom of a vessel. Some citric acid in hot water lifts the stuck residue on its own. Works with burnt residue for pans as well. When you soak you milk vessels add a tsp of citric acid and let it stand for an hour.
Milk stuck at bottom of the vessel is the hardest. The fortune tablet has done it once, after soaking. Also using a induction stove means that milk vessel only has stuck milk at the bottom. If you use a LPG stove, the flame of it will cause the milk to be stuck on the walls of the vessel too.
All the powder ones wash the Milk vessel worse then the most worst maid.
But the top spec finish quantum Max, does it 9 out of 10 times without any sort of soaking. Just drain the milk out and put it in the machine.

A compacted tablet is slow release so foam is kept under control. Coupled with a plastic wrapper that keeps moisture off the detergent once the packet is opened.

I've been wondering how to make tablets as you can make your own detergent more effective that way. But I think it needs some special press so not feasible.
The top spec tablets, do not have compacted powder, they use a combination of powder which is not compacted and gel/liquid.
 
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They left out the manufactured by bit.

Strange how the price drops from Rs. 400 down to Rs. 125 between them :oops:


^In that review you can see the manufacturer is clearly excel rasayan.

Bosch OEM.jpg

Same people who make fortune


Neither have expired but you said its clumping in water? That can't be good
 
Not in water.
That is the important bit. If you mix a spoon of detergent in a glass and it dissolves then all is good. But if it clumps up in the water then not.

In the packet it was all hard like a brick. I had to squeeze them to make them powdery.
I don't know why it's hard. Maybe got compressed during shipping. But if it's in a box how did it get compressed. I've never had this happen with clothes detergent. Maybe dishwasher detergent cannot for health reasons contain anti caking agents. That would explain clumping in the packet.

Ingredients for Vim/Sun dishwasher powder show no anti caking agents but a few binders

I saw reviews where people were having to chip away with a screwdriver like as if some moisture had got into the bottle before hand. Or it's really old stock. That detergent has expired. Some argue that if powder detergent is kept airtight or in a dry environment it never expires. It may lose its perfume but is otherwise still functional.

And you see this same story for a number of powder detergents.

What I understand from such reviews is the detergent is expired. Not that if you press it then it becomes powder and all is fine.
 
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When I was using Fortune I had to use a hammer sometime before opening the packet to break the the lumps and transfer to a container. It's quite common phenomenon for Fortune/Excel Rasayan made Detergent.
It was never an old stock, I used to buy it directly from the manufacturer.
 
When I was using Fortune I had to use a hammer sometime before opening the packet to break the the lumps and transfer to a container. It's quite common phenomenon for Fortune/Excel Rasayan made Detergent.
It was never an old stock, I used to buy it directly from the manufacturer.
What detergent do you currently use?
 
When I was using Fortune I had to use a hammer sometime before opening the packet to break the the lumps and transfer to a container. It's quite common phenomenon for Fortune/Excel Rasayan made Detergent.
It was never an old stock, I used to buy it directly from the manufacturer.
What about Vim?

I've seen people complain about this with Finish powder and that's in a bottle. Not so easy to hammer
 
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