Consumer Harassment, the Mitsu.in way
- Thread starter rootyme
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He (the individual from Mitsu) is coming up with new ideas every time. He just replied that I am trying to extort money from him by posting it on public forum and involving NCH in this. Yes, he is furious that I mailed NCH.
He tells me that he'll file a defamation case too.
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rsaeon
Patron
I purchased my first domain twenty years ago and I had .IN tld of mine reach the front page of digg soon after (bringing widespread attention to domain hacks possible using the .IN ccTLD) so I can safely say this company appears to be the most unprofessional domain registrar I have ever heard of.
Cut your losses, choose another domain with a better registrar. If sites like jio.com prefer to rely on godaddy as their registrar, then you know there's no benefit with any indian registrar. They're all stuck in the same backward, twisted, unethical, self-centered, egoist mentality that you should consider yourself lucky to have their services available to you.
It's people like him that drive talented people away from this country.
First, relax. They're just empty words, empty threats. There's not much money in domain registry services and he probably found out that rats got into his sugar container and contaminated it so today's chai was unsatisfying and he probably ended up giving himself an aneursym while responding to your email. And without money, or sugar in his tea, there's not much he can do to you even if he has all your information and aadhar card copy.
Cut your losses, choose another domain with a better registrar. If sites like jio.com prefer to rely on godaddy as their registrar, then you know there's no benefit with any indian registrar. They're all stuck in the same backward, twisted, unethical, self-centered, egoist mentality that you should consider yourself lucky to have their services available to you.
It's people like him that drive talented people away from this country.
First, relax. They're just empty words, empty threats. There's not much money in domain registry services and he probably found out that rats got into his sugar container and contaminated it so today's chai was unsatisfying and he probably ended up giving himself an aneursym while responding to your email. And without money, or sugar in his tea, there's not much he can do to you even if he has all your information and aadhar card copy.
I've not had my lunch yet. Not a drop of water either. I've been in this mess for over 6 hours now. Today is Janmastmi and what a day to have all this happen. This person is giving personal threats like I'll blacklist you from pan-india corporate, file police complaint and that's like the lowest low one can stoop to.
rsaeon
Patron
Adding:
This is correct. If the registration information isn't yours, then you don't own the domain — this company registered the domain in their name. So yeah, cut your losses, the domain was never yours.
This is correct. If the registration information isn't yours, then you don't own the domain — this company registered the domain in their name. So yeah, cut your losses, the domain was never yours.
Are you saying that my name and address was not used to register the domain? How is my state and mail ID visible in WHOIS then?
rsaeon
Patron
Many ccTLD's do not allow for whois privacy services (there are exceptions like .cc), so if the whois information for this domain does not match exactly and entirely to what you've entered, then this company registered the domain in their name and will hold it hostage. It's a shady tactic that I actually have not seen before but I have heard of it. Basically what @Ir0nMerc mentioned in his post earlier.
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nRiTeCh
Skilled
He who? Your advocate?
Lol! How can you extort money from an advocate in fact isnt it always the opposite?
How did you defamed your advocate?
Looks like they are trying to make a scapegoat of you...
Dont be bali ka bakra...ftw just ignore everything!
Last resort is cybercell only if you know how to reach them directly or else local police station accompanied by some elder like your father/uncle etc. who has an idea whats what and how things got screwed for no fault of yours.
I meant the Mitsu support guy. He has told me and my sister all these on call.
Ir0nMerc
Disciple
For your sake I hope you recorded the call. Send this recording to Nixi and NCH and tell them that you are receiving life threats from company staff.
And ask them to ensure that you get refund and fairly compensated for the mental harassment they caused you.
If you want legal advice then post this on Reddit LegalAdviceIndia.
And ask them to ensure that you get refund and fairly compensated for the mental harassment they caused you.
If you want legal advice then post this on Reddit LegalAdviceIndia.
India: Tapping Of Phone Lines Or Recording Calls Without Consent Is A Violation Of Right To Privacy Enshrined In Article 21 Of The Constitution Of India. So he will use that against me if I raise anything regarding call recording. Whatever they have done on mail is enough for Nixi and NCH to understand that they've been bullying me.
I am not leaving this without a full refund. No idea if I am getting compensated for the mental harassment. I don't want to talk to them ever again once I get my money back.
At this point, I will call you out for being naive. Extremely so.
Right to privacy? In India (sorry, "Bharat")? My friend, wake up and smell the gau mutra. If this was a thing in the country, Truecaller wouldn't be a necessity for blocking all those spam calls that are a result of your information being openly sold/hacked with zero repercussions.
Save yourself, as others have pointed out, and forget the "law" that only exists in namesake, with no real protection to the average citizen.
rsaeon
Patron
This is de-evolving into some kind of conspiracy.
@rootyme putting aside the unprofessionalism by this company, you aren't without fault either. I think it's fair to say that your initial approach triggered a series of cascading events that led to where you are now.
You said you did your research based on price but somehow you didn't do enough research to know that you need to put in a full postal address for the domain registration. Ignorance of this isn't a valid excuse, there are so many resources online — videos, blogs, wiki's, whois databases, all of which you're aware of but did not use. it takes a maybe five minutes at most to find out what you need to know about domain registration through a web search.
Valid contact information for domains is a condition for the domain being available to you to use. There is no valid domain lease/purchase agreement without this information, it has always been this way. This company assumed since you know enough to register a domain, you would also known the basic guidelines of the registration process. And when they saw that you haven't provided proper contact information, they retaliated because now they assume they're dealing with an inexperienced person whose intentions were unclear.
Their language and tone was unnecessarily aggressive but the actions they took are within what's to be expected — account suspension, penalty charges, refusal of refund. In fact, i would say they they even did what other registrars would not do — give you a second chance. Other registrars would straight away cancel a registration if they suspected incorrect information and you would lose whatever you had paid.
The Rs 500 charge is also not unheard of, domain registrars and hosting providers are known to charge extra (either on a plan or per incident) if they need to hold your hand and explain what the process/procedure is to get something done or setup. Companies like these are service providers, they expect you know what you need — they're not youtubers or online tutors.
You should step away from this and research some more in how these things are done and managed. I have never needed to email customer support for any domain or any website in the last two decades, all the information that I needed was online and freely available and if anything, this information has gotten even more easier to access and learn.
@rootyme putting aside the unprofessionalism by this company, you aren't without fault either. I think it's fair to say that your initial approach triggered a series of cascading events that led to where you are now.
You said you did your research based on price but somehow you didn't do enough research to know that you need to put in a full postal address for the domain registration. Ignorance of this isn't a valid excuse, there are so many resources online — videos, blogs, wiki's, whois databases, all of which you're aware of but did not use. it takes a maybe five minutes at most to find out what you need to know about domain registration through a web search.
Valid contact information for domains is a condition for the domain being available to you to use. There is no valid domain lease/purchase agreement without this information, it has always been this way. This company assumed since you know enough to register a domain, you would also known the basic guidelines of the registration process. And when they saw that you haven't provided proper contact information, they retaliated because now they assume they're dealing with an inexperienced person whose intentions were unclear.
Their language and tone was unnecessarily aggressive but the actions they took are within what's to be expected — account suspension, penalty charges, refusal of refund. In fact, i would say they they even did what other registrars would not do — give you a second chance. Other registrars would straight away cancel a registration if they suspected incorrect information and you would lose whatever you had paid.
The Rs 500 charge is also not unheard of, domain registrars and hosting providers are known to charge extra (either on a plan or per incident) if they need to hold your hand and explain what the process/procedure is to get something done or setup. Companies like these are service providers, they expect you know what you need — they're not youtubers or online tutors.
You should step away from this and research some more in how these things are done and managed. I have never needed to email customer support for any domain or any website in the last two decades, all the information that I needed was online and freely available and if anything, this information has gotten even more easier to access and learn.
I wholeheartedly agree with all this. But please go through the cascade of events again and tell me if this company is just a little unprofessional or the case is much more serious than that.
@rsaeon I'll put put here again what exactly has happened since I provided them my Aadhar immediately:
1. Aadhar submitted by me.
2. Mitsu's order to update address within 48 hours sent without a documentation link or any written guide but with a 500 rupee warning.
3. I send a mail writing down the steps myself and asking them to confirm it's right or wrong. They IGNORE THAT.
4. I send another mail 3 hours later after following my steps and requesting them to confirm I am not violating anything. They IGNORE THAT.
5. 23 hours pass and instead of telling me what I am missing they finally send the two KB articles and completely IGNORE my 2 previous mails.
6. I ensure that my address is updated according to both KB articles. Send them an email within 30 minutes to confirm that I no longer violate any rules. They IGNORE THAT.
7. 4 hours pass and I send another mail in HUGE LETTERS requesting them to verify and tell me if I am violating any rules. They IGNORE THAT.
8. They INGORE ALL MY MAILS for 48 hours and once that period was over THEY CHANGED MY ADDRESS BACK to my sign up input. And report it to Nixi. They called and screamed and sent personal threats for posting this on TechEnclave. What do you think I was asking them to verify repeatedly if it was the same input?
9. They doctored the replies from me on the final mail that they sent to Nixi for suspending my domain. Yes, my Aadhar card submission reply is missing from their domain suspension mail. They are trying to tell Nixi that I never submitted my KYC and didn't comply.
Are you sure this company is just a little unprofessional and I deserve all this because I didn't look up all the requirements before sign up?
Also my apologies to @invisiblebond . I'm sorry but I have been panicking hard. Didn't mean any disrespect to you.
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Ir0nMerc
Disciple
Completely agree with you.
OP didn't do any research but did only price shopping. He went for the cheapest provider he could find and here imo the saying perfectly fits... "you get what to pay for". Not trying to defend the provider in any way but the matter of fact is there was no research involved.
Another thing is, the guy was threatened/triggered by verification email which he should not have because it's within their rights to verify the ID if they want to. Most of such cases are automatically flagged by the system because of IP/location based triggers or incomplete information. Although in this case I can assume they do this to cover some of the cost for providing cheaper service, but there is no way to confirm this. But ultimately it results in account suspension if not corrected. It's not frequent but happens. Maybe his IP was used for spamming in past or phishing, we can't say for sure why but it happened. And in my experience, if they ask for verification information then you should provide it. Period.
The alarming thing is OP accusing them in return which escalated the whole situation to where it is right now. Company's legal message was a template email and they said nothing wrong in it. But OP tried to teach them English or how they should manage their website or whatever he was trying to do. lol
Now, I can only assume that whoever replied to OPs email is equally hotheaded as OP is. He didn't like the fact what OP accused them or wrote them in that way. To be frank, I "may" also be offended by such an email out of the blue. And whole situation became worse day by day. All this could have been avoided if OP kept his cool and just provided them ID and accepted the additional charges as a cost of learning.
When other people here tried to point it out to him and he replied in the same fashion.
Now, I am not saying the support staff is right. No, they have also lost the cool during the conversation and later stepped over the line with the threats on phone call. The alarming thing is, that it may be OP's first time to deal with such incidence but the company is dealing with such people from last 5-10 years or may be more and they very well know what to do and how to deal in such incidences. So there is that.
It's not like I haven't faced such issues in the past with service providers but I have learned it quickly that support staff is also human and if you treat them poorly, they can and have many ways to return the favor in many different ways. At this stage, I don't want to discourage OPs legal efforts but if I were him and that 2500 rs mean a lot to me then I would apologize to them for my behavior and ask them to resolve the matter peacefully. But that's me, I may be stupid or not know the things how market works but I certainly know I am 2500 rs poorer already and if I go down the same path, I will spend much more time, money and efforts to save that 2500.
Anyway I sincerely wish OP gets his money back or domain.
This is not about '3000' rupees any longer. At this moment, I need public support to get my domain back and expose their malpractice and bullying. And you must go through the events as they happened before leaning over to the company's side even one bit.
I'll put put here again what exactly has happened since I provided them my Aadhar immediately:
1. Aadhar submitted by me.
2. Mitsu's order to update address within 48 hours sent without a documentation link or any written guide but with a 500 rupee warning.
3. I send a mail writing down the steps myself and asking them to confirm it's right or wrong. They IGNORE THAT.
4. I send another mail 3 hours later after following my steps and requesting them to confirm I am not violating anything. They IGNORE THAT.
5. 23 hours pass and instead of telling me what I am missing they finally send the two KB articles and completely IGNORE my 2 previous mails.
6. I ensure that my address is updated according to both KB articles. Send them an email within 30 minutes to confirm that I no longer violate any rules. They IGNORE THAT.
7. 4 hours pass and I send another mail in HUGE LETTERS requesting them to verify and tell me if I am violating any rules. They IGNORE THAT.
8. They IGNORE ALL MY MAILS for 48 hours and once that period was over THEY CHANGED MY ADDRESS BACK to my sign up input. And reported it to Nixi. They called and screamed and sent personal threats for posting this on TechEnclave. What do you think I was asking them to verify repeatedly if it was the same input?
9. They doctored the replies from me on the final mail that they sent to Nixi for suspending my domain. Yes, my Aadhar card submission reply is missing from their domain suspension mail. They are trying to tell Nixi that I never submitted my KYC and didn't comply.
Are you sure this company is just a little unprofessional and I deserve all this because I didn't look up all the requirements before sign up?
Ir0nMerc
Disciple
What public can do in this case? Share on social media and defame them?
If this is not about money anymore and it's about principles then do nothing. Only reply to NIXI. Wait for the result of the complaint.
Then send legal notice to Mitsu. Send via email and speed post it to their office address. Explain the issue in notice and ask for refund + any fee incurred for sending notice + 5,00,000 for mental harassment they caused you. Give them 2 week of time to respond or resolve the issue. Be respectful. And keep all the evidence and reseipts.
If they do not resolve then send another notice and increase the amount by adding fee of sending 2nd notice. Now tell them that if they do not respond or resolve then you are free to take any legal action. And wait.
If they do not resolve then file a consumer court case in local court. It's fairly easy and don't need to hire a lawyer to fight in consumer court. But now increase the amount by adding any other fee you incurred more.
It will take some time but you will get your money back and some more. 99% chances you won't get that domain back.
rsaeon
Patron
Domain registration and to some extent, web hosting, is a very different industry than what we as consumers are used to. There's very little, if any, "customer support". Nearly everything is either automated or a KB article somewhere. Human interaction only occurs during refunds or legal issues.
What this means, most importantly, is that there's no expectation of a timely reply to a support related email. They'll reply if and when they feel like replying. It could be hours or days or never. Every second they spend typing an email is a second away from monitoring their systems, their automations and their rollouts.
To put it into perspective, the emails they sent you have already ate up so much of their time/money that even if you were to register a domain with them for 10 years, they would not make a profit from your account. They are basically taking a loss when they respond to your emails, hence the Rs 500 charge.
Companies like these rely on numbers, they'll earn less than maybe Rs 100/year from you and your single domain. So they'll concentrate their efforts on transactions and accounts that don't require any effort on their part, and they hope to make a profit by having thousands to lakhs of accounts like yours. This is how every registrar works.
Taking above into consideration, you should have a better idea why they ignored your emails. They expect you to know what to do with their service. If you submitted/updated the details they asked, they get a notification that appears as a blip in their automations and they would not even look at it nor remember who you are or what your domain is and this is normal for their day to day operations.
Again, I need to stress, in twenty years and countless domains, I never needed to email anyone at a registrar or hosting provider. This industry is very different and it has always been this way.
As for the company itself, no one here is supporting them and their faults/mistakes/behaviour is absolutely inexcusable and you're within your rights to pursue legal action as outlined by @Ir0nMerc if you feel that need.
But I'm not as optimistic that you'll get your money back since domain registrations (specifically ccTLDs) involve government agencies and they can make any excuse to put the matter in their favour by claiming the issue involves the reputation of India and it's ccTLD. Take a look at this explanation by a popular low-cost hosting provider and domain registrar:
Now open any news website and read the headlines and consider the current political climate in this country. Then, if you can, put yourself in the position of the domain registrar who has a customer that did not provide proper contact information on sign up. Maybe it'll help you understand why the company behaved the way they did — but again, no one is supporting their behaviour/response, there's no excuse, they're entirely unprofessional.