Do you support Anna Hazare?

Do you support Anna Hazare?

  • YES

    Votes: 21 63.6%
  • NO

    Votes: 12 36.4%

  • Total voters
    33
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sudhanshu123

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This thread is free.From what ,you ask?From judgement.I only ask for your opinions,nothing more.Read this first though :

Consider this man: He runs a village in rural Maharashtra as if it is his personal fiefdom, like an authoritarian feudal lord. He is a fan of Shivaji, and admires him for once chopping off the hands of a man who committed a crime. In that vein, he passes an order that anyone found drinking alcohol will be tied to a pole in front of the village temple and publicly flogged. Several men undergo this, one of whom, a vice sarpanch of the village, says: "I was drinking. I was ... tied to the pole and flogged two-three times. It is normal. [He] will try to make you understand once or twice and thereafter, he will beat you badly." He believes in "rigid implementation" of family planning, including forced vasectomies. Male labourers in his village are paid Rs 50 a day, while female labourers get just Rs 30. He supports Narendra Modi, and is politically active, routinely resorting to a form of blackmail known as threatening to fast unto death until his demands are met. He believes that corrupt people should be hanged -- literally hanged to death. He is Anna Hazare.
In the last month or so, the 71-year-old Hazare has become a middle-class hero and a "youth icon" in India. This is baffling, given the biographical details in the above paragraph. (I got them from Hartosh Singh Bal's article for Open magazine and Mukul Sharma's piece in Kafila.) Hazare is popularly described as Gandhian, but, as Bal points out, if the forced vasectomies are anything to go by, he brings Sanjay Gandhi to mind more than Mahatma Gandhi. Sure, he is fighting against corruption, but both his method (of blackmail via the hunger fast) and his remedy (creating an alternative center of power and discretion instead of tackling the root causes of corruption) are dubious. Then why has middle-class India turned him into such a hero?
I believe it is because we are lazy. It is true that we are disgusted by corruption. We are sick of reading about the telecom scandal, the Radia tapes, the Commeonwealth games. More than that, corruption has become a virus that plagues our everyday lives, and we're appalled by it. But we're too damn lazy to go out and vote and actually participate in our democracy. We're apathetic, and believe, perhaps correctly, that our feeble middle-class vote won't make a difference. And yet, we want to express our disgust at the way things are, take the moral high ground, and feel like we really are doing something, because hey, that helps our self esteem. Then along comes this venerable activist who wears khadi, lives a spartan life, speaks out against corruption in high places, and goes on a hunger strike to influence the implentation of a bill that aims to tackle corruption. Naturally, we make him the repository of our hopes and our values, speak out in his defence at parties and cafes while hanging out with friends, and even light candles in his support. And there, our job as citizens is done.
The intellectual laziness here is obvious. We make him our hero though we know little else about him, and when his weird history comes to light, we rationalise it away. We ignore the fact that the Lokpal Bill, which he is fighting for, does nothing to tackle the root causes of corruption, and might actually be a step in the wrong direction. We treat attacks on our new hero -- if the behaviour of some of his defenders on TV is anything to go by -- as personal attacks on us. We start dealing in absolutes, as if anyone against Hazare must, by default, be a supporter of corruption and the status quo.
The Anna Hazare phenomenon is what one could term the Rorschach Effect in Politics. A couple of years ago, Barack Obama wisely pointed out, "I am like a Rorschach test." During his presidential campaign, his supporters saw in him whatever they wanted to: an anti-Bush, a liberal messiah, a pragmatic and non-partisan moderate, and suchlike, some of it without any evidence, some of it contradictory. (Similarly, his opponents projected their fears or fantasies onto him.) Needless to say, when he did come to power, he disappointed many who had voted for him, because hey, he couldn't possibly live up to being everything to everybody. (For example, lefty pacifists were disappointed that he stepped up the war in Afghanistan, even though that's exactly what he said he'd do while campaigning.) He was a blank slate no more.
Hazare is a similar beneficiary of the Rorschach Effect. Although he has been an activist for decades, he's exploded into the national consciousness in just the last few weeks. And a politically powerless middle class has projected its hopes, its self-righteousness and its sense of moral superiority onto him. But Hazare is no Mahatma Gandhi, and I think disillusionment, both with the man and the Lokpal Bill, is bound to set in sooner or later. Unless indifference and apathy precede it.


Another of Rorschach's children is Rahul Gandhi. He's been hailed as a youth icon and the face of new India, and Page 3 celebs routinely describe him as one of their favourite politicians. But apart from the fact that he's good looking and belongs to the Nehru-Gandhi family, we know very little about him. What are the values that he stands for? What are his views on economic freedom and the license raj? What are his views on freedom of speech? (If he supports it, is he then in favour of repealing the ban on Satanic Verses?) What does he feel about reservations? (He has spoken out against the caste system, and reservations do, after all, perpetuate discrimination on the basis of caste.) He has spoken out for inner-party democracy, which India needs so badly, but is he doing anything to drive the Congress towards a system where party leaders are elected from below, not anointed from above? Does he hope to be prime minister one day? If so, why? What kind of a person is he, really?
Gandhi is as blank a slate as you can get, in the sense that he won't address any of these issues, and most of the public pronouncements we hear from him are platitudes that express good intention, which is meaningless. If that is a deliberate political strategy, it is masterful. Whether it will work, in this age of identity politics when votebanks are fragmented and all politics is local, is uncertain. But I guarantee you one thing: he'll have middle-class support.


A common response to these has been: At least Hazare is doing something; what solution do you offer?
My response to that is that firstly, as the pieces above argue, the solution he is offering could actually make the problem worse, and are a step in the wrong direction. That is reason enough to oppose it without needing to propose an alternative. Secondly, the alternative is obvious: if we are to tackle the root cause of corruption, then we should campaign against excess government power and discretion, starting with any particular domain that grabs our fancy. That said, I don't think I'll see Anna Hazare go on hunger strike anytime soon protesting against the license-and-permit raj or all the redundant rent-seeking ministries in government.

Source :
http://in.news.yahoo.com/blogs/opinions/rorschach-effect-indian-politics-053923332.html

So i want to know what the upstanding citizens of TE think,do you support Anna Hazare(in general)?
 
No, I don't support Anna Hazare one single bit because his fight never was and never will be against corruption.

If I leave aside the magnitude of corruption (in terms of money), the corruption in his court is no different than the corruption in Congress or BJP. The main difference is the self righteousness and self delusion. A politician knows that he is corrupt but lies though his teeth about it. People in Anna's court talk about everybody else in a self righteous manner, but they are totally blind to (or don't want to accept) the corruption in their mid.

The people who who blindly follow this person are also for the most part, the same kind of self delusional people. People who don't even file their taxes honestly and try everything to skimp on taxes then go on put their Anna caps, t-shirts and other Anna merchandise and then go and join these meaningless and disruptive agitations.

A so called anti-corruption agitation in which people can bribe the organizers to get better seats has already lost its purpose. If a person who despite having been in a key law enforcement role in past and having no excuse for ignorance of the law and in full knowledge forged documents to defraud somebody to get money and then self righteously defended herself by claiming that she has always done such things in the past to get some extra money for her trust has no right to call herself an anti corruption activist. A person who openly encouraged and supported someone for such actions has no right to call himself an anti corruption activist. A person who has always kept the law from touching him by using the support of some people is also corrupt because he is also in a sense abusing power.

India is full of people who always look for somebody else other than themselves put the blame on. For people who are corrupt in numerous ways in their every day life, the politicians and their corruption are the scrape-goat for everyday. Corruption is every where and just catching a few big fish is not going to solve the problem by a long shot. At the very least, people who are against corruption should at least do their best to rid themselves of their own corruption before looking at the corruption of somebody else.
 
Nemesis ,you are so right.and anyway the Lokpal Bill in it's concept,does not target corruption per se,but only encourages accountability.love your sig.
 
There is a big difference between petty wrong doings such as lying in your income tax returns and corruption that's perpetrated by the government.


The government is an organisation you're supposed to be able to trust and rely on. Not one that you fear, and feel contempt for. The government is supposed to punish criminals and protect the innocent, and not the other way round.

When the government uses it's power to steal resources from the country and redistribute them amongst a few it creates inequalities in society. It's makes a few so rich and powerful that they're above the law.

Corruption on a political scale causes the country to remain undeveloped, leaving it unprotected against foreign enemies. It creates situations where the country can't provide for the basic needs of it's own citizens. It endangers the very existence of the nation.
How many broken roads have you travelled? How many rail-accidents have you heard of? How many cases of pollution have you seen? How many cases of court verdicts being bought have you come across? How many times have you heard of the police siding with the powerful? How many defence contracts have been filled with sub-standard, under-performing materials?

Do you really think saving seats at a rally and trying to save a few bucks on your taxes is the same thing as governmental corruption?

Regarding the right to become an activist for a cause - I may have committed a thousand crimes, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to stand for a cause! You have the option of following my cause or ignoring me, but you can't tell me that I can't have a cause at all because of things that I may or may not have done in my past.

Anna Hazare and his team stand for a cause. They don't ask you to espouse their views. Or to believe that they're beyond criticism. They're only asking you to root out all corruption from society, starting with within the government.

They haven't been voted to power, and AFAIK they don't use coercion or bribes to gain your support. No one that I know of has been murdered, raped, robbed or otherwise harmed by his team.

AFAIK they don't stand to profit from their cause. Their stand against corruption does bring money into their organization, which they use. But, AFAIK their accounts are in the public domain, and their expenses and income can all be accounted for.

Anna Hazare, Kiran Bedi, Arvind Kejriwal and the rest of their team have taken time out from their lives to try and improve ours. I don't think they expected the movement to get the following it did when they started out. I don't think think started this movement out of a desire for personal gain. AFAIK the only gains they've made have been to their reputations, and increased book sales, and donations to their organisations.

Like them or hate them, respect them. They're standing up for you and me. They're standing up against people who're known to erase all trace of their opponents. They may not have all the answers, and their solution may not be perfect, but it's a start. And it leads to possibilities.
 
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What has this guy done so far,Increased Fuel and other commodity rates...:lol:
Prices were lower since he went On fast :D
 
There is a big difference between petty wrong doings such as lying in your income tax returns and corruption that's perpetrated by the government.

The corruption in individuals is something to be more worried about than that from the government. If majority of people have weak morals, then it follows that govt which is made of the same sort of people would also be corrupt. Even if you remove some people in the govt, it is not going to change anything because the people replacing them would also be corrupt. If only a few people in the govt are corrupt and the people in general are honest then corruption would be much easier to put in check. There isn't any country that does not have some level of bureaucratic corruption. But in our country, more than 95% of the people are guilty of some form of corruption. It is the common people who are responsible for corruption. even the thousands of crores stashed in Swiss banks is also because of the people. Aren't these the people who abused every right they have to do the wrong things? What is making the people vote for politicians for booze or money or just because the guy is from their own caste or religion. Isn't that the corruption that ultimately lead to the corruption of the government. The fact remains that as it stands, a majority of people in this country have weak morals and that is exactly where things need to change first. The common man and self righteous people like Anna trying to put all the blame for corruption on politicians without even trying to change themselves first is laughable at best and is not going to change any thing.

Regarding the right to become an activist for a cause - I may have committed a thousand crimes, but that doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to stand for a cause! You have the option of following my cause or ignoring me, but you can't tell me that I can't have a cause at all because of things that I may or may not have done in my past.

Anna Hazare and his team stand for a cause. They don't ask you to espouse their views. Or to believe that they're beyond criticism. They're only asking you to root out all corruption from society, starting with within the government.

People always have causes that they fight for. The terrorists and the Naxalites also think that they have just causes that they are fighting for. Nobody can stop them from standing up for their cause. But is it stopping any one from criticizing the method in which they are fighting? A person thinking that he is fighting for a cause doesn't always mean that he is fighting towards the cause or that he is going in the right direction to achieve that cause.


They haven't been voted to power, and AFAIK they don't use coercion or bribes to gain your support. No one that I know of has been murdered, raped, robbed or otherwise harmed by his team.

But they abuse the power they have (the support of some people) to keep themselves from the course of the law. None of them have respect for the law. Gandhiji too led may an agitation against the govt back in his time, but at least AFAIK, he still had respect for the law and never once has he defied it. But Anna and his team want to do everything on their own whims. Every thing they do is right in their own minds, it doesn't matter what the law says, they can always abuse the power of their followers to obstruct the law.


Anna Hazare, Kiran Bedi, Arvind Kejriwal and the rest of their team have taken time out from their lives to try and improve ours.

If they take that same time to fix their screwed up morals and self righteousness and set the right example, then it would a worth lot more than every thing else that they have done or doing right now in name of fighting against corruption.
 
A solution to corruption : Cashless society
But before implementing the system everyone should declare their assets domestic as well as international. After declaration if any asset is found, void it.
It is a bit harsh and sorta utopian, but I think the govt and people should drastically move towards a cashless society.
 
@ch@ts the end really does not justify the means.

Using the example as you have pointed, the Mujahideen were justified as an 'asset' by the ISI and the CIA to keep out destabilizing 'Communists Forces' out of Afghanistan. Now look who is at the receiving end of things. They kicked out the Soviet forces alright but then turned into a far worse regime that is guilty of actions far worse than anything perpetrated by the nominal Leftist leaning Afghan government of the ~1970's.

IF WE WANT TO KICK CORRUPTION, WE MUST BECOME ACCOUNTABLE. Then only can we cleanse the next generation of government of this plague.

Another example would be rather unpopular but let me voice it nevertheless, in the 1920's the once proud German / Prussian Empire emerged out of the Great War as the Weimar Republic a state heavily burdened with debt by the victors, within in 20 years it rose up under a vitriolic ex-serviceman, an ex-Corporal in the Bavarian Army who professed 'CHANGE' and a 'NEW WORLD ORDER' for the German people under the ideals of Aryan Supremacy and Lebenserum (living space). He spread Xenophobic and genocidal tendency in the German state, he did the impossible and within ~6 years (1933 -->1939) Germany was ready for war once more. Adolf Hitler.

He did make a broken pseudo-state into a proud-nation but then we all know why Hitler is really famous. He is not famous for commissioning the production of the VW Beetle, not famous for re-industrialization of a abandoned state, not known for almost eradicating poverty. He is known as mass murderer and genocidal maniac who was hell bent on subjugating the world.

Any one charismatic leader (who sprang out of no-where) who has a similar background is bound to lead us into the same pattern.
 
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Anna Hazare lacks vision, knowledge and method to lead a fight against corruption of such terminal cancerous nature. Anna has been taken for a ride by Kejriwal. I never supported nor will support Anna or Arvind or any other utopian idealist. More scarily I see an 'Ellsworth Toohey' in Kejriwal.

I believe the termites of this nation can only be destroyed if competent people take risk and join active politics instead of entertaining ourselves to death with all distractions, money and false notions of 'success'. it is the only sacrifice that will put the nation in it's path of growth with probity and merit in public life and society. Not JLPB or any agitations.

<conspiracy>
I even believe that the whole IAC movement is infiltrated and engineered by the congress to diffuse the energy and angst of the people against the garangutan corruption by the UPA government. many initial founders of the IAC were forced out due to internal politics.
</conspiracy>

the magnitude of corruption we are dealing with is the misuse of public office by people in power to sell the country (natural resources, defence procurement etc) to the highest briber. to compare this lakhs of crores of loot to petty offences done by ordinary citizens is downright stupid. If the government inspires confidence in people that it spends the tax towards real development of the country, citizens would happily pay all taxes. It is not difficult to curb these petty issues. technology and e-governance will make all these things disappear. free market in telecom erased corruption in getting telephones, computerisation did the same to railway ticketing.

btw placing congress, other dynastic institutionalised corrupt parties and BJP on the same position is laughable. this is the distraction that eases the pressure on the corrupt UPA regime (8 years of hell). this is the same mistake IAC is also doing, painting all politicians with the same brush and ironically they are now starting a political party. the move to start a political party is welcome, this is real democracy, but my assessment is they are going nowhere with that <conspiracy>if not to split opposition votes and help congress in key constituencies.</conspiracy>.


Full Disclosure:
* I'm a NDA supporter.



_
 
I support anna hazare for two reasons -he stands up for a cause and he fights for our independence.India is mostly ruled by Congress party because they are a better political party. But I will prefer fight for Education rather than corruption or black money
 
When any sarkari babu ask for bribe from you, ask about Anna Hazare.

I asked a Guy at Petrol Pump why the Price of petrol is Hiked every now and then,he told me to check with a Guy Called Mr Anna Hazzare :lol:
:yawn:
 
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