Car & Bike Formula1 2013 disscusion

[onlyravi]

Vettel n Webber both were issued the team code Martin 20 which meant they had to hold their current position but even then Vettel overtook Webber.
I'm a Vettel fan but what he did today was silly and totally avoidable....
he could have overtaken after some time but doing it at that time by putting his teammate's race at risk was just foolish.....
Weber also put his team in embarrassing position by what he said on the podium.... he was so pissed off.
little disappointment today by the behavior of both the redbull drivers....

 

[muzux2]

I think FIA should force a strict rule that forbid a team to tell one of its driver to cede to his team mate. I feel the overall excitement of watching a race is lost when teams do these kind of coward acts. Let the faster driver win the race.

 

[onlyravi]

I think FIA should force a strict rule that forbid a team to tell one of its driver to cede to his team mate. I feel the overall excitement of watching a race is lost when teams do these kind of coward acts. Let the faster driver win the race.

even if fia bans such team order, teams will still continue doing using choice words.... after all the is a lot of money and business involved in this...
in fact drivers have team orders related stuff written in their contacts as well....

 

[blkrb0t]

I think FIA should force a strict rule that forbid a team to tell one of its driver to cede to his team mate. I feel the overall excitement of watching a race is lost when teams do these kind of coward acts. Let the faster driver win the race.

The only way to enforce this would be to allow only one driver per team, and that won't happen.

 

[themasterguy]

Lol for Vettel and Webber incident.

Alonso must be sweating, considering Vettel supposed move to ferrari in or after 2014.

Personally for me, Vettel did the right thing by disobeying his team, if webber was so much confident of his victory he shud have pursued vettel, like vettel did him and finally overtook him. When the season will be nearing its end, it will be vettel and not webber who will be fighting for Championship and today 7 added points will benefit in the end.

 

[Renegade]

Vettel did the right thing by disobeying his team, if webber was so much confident of his victory he shud have pursued vettel, like vettel did him and finally overtook him.

If Webber wanted he could have run Vettel off the track onto the grass by not allowing enough room. He did not do that as it was his own teammate. Anyone else and he would have defended more aggressively. Vettel was no doubt the selfish moron today.

 

[tifosi]

Disable team radio. End of problems

 

[onlyravi]

If Webber wanted he could have run Vettel off the track onto the grass by not allowing enough room. He did not do that as it was his own teammate. Anyone else and he would have defended more aggressively. Vettel was no doubt the selfish moron today.

If Webber did that then the entire topic would have changed with Webber being the scape goat....
I am not at all happy with what turned out on the tracks but the fact is both of them did the same thing.... last year in Silverstone GP Marko was told to hold position but he ignored team orders and clearly stated that he did disobey the team order coz he wanted to win..... if you consider Fingerman did tit for tat then thats one way of looking at it....
They other thing is no body wanted a repeat of the 2010 Turkish GP... it would have made the team look very stupid.... and both the drivers a complete laughing stock....
The height of things was when both gave very immature reactions on the podium rubbing salt to the injury of Marko and Marko just crossing the line with his comments that Vettel is teams fav and will be favored for that days events.....

Funny part was I was going through the comments of Fingerman's official FB photos and there were funny comment war going on between the fans.... with most of them cursing and abusing Vettel....
If RedBull extends their contact with Vettel I dont see Marko with the team then.... Its like two swords in scabbard ....
Funny part is Alonso was totally forgotten.... in all this drama
it was fun afterall as a race.....
Like one of the comments I read : This is racing... we want to watch pure racing not team orders being played out....

Great fodder for all F1 covering media to make up for the big 3 weeks gap till the next race [DOUBLEPOST=1364189826][/DOUBLEPOST]How sad that despite winning the 1st and 2nd place they had to cancel the team victory photo shoot due to this controversy....
How discouraging it is for the pit crew.... they achieved one of the best pit time of 2.3 & 2.4Sec but no mention of them.... specially on a day when all other teams had disasters in the pit with both cars pitting at same time and so many other problems....

 

[tifosi]

Who's Marko? If you mean Mark Webber, just say Mark. Red Bull also employs Helmut Marko as their advisor, so calling Mark as Marko will confuse people.

 

[Sub]

Lol for Vettel and Webber incident.

Alonso must be sweating, considering Vettel supposed move to ferrari in or after 2014.

Personally for me, Vettel did the right thing by disobeying his team, if webber was so much confident of his victory he shud have pursued vettel, like vettel did him and finally overtook him. When the season will be nearing its end, it will be vettel and not webber who will be fighting for Championship and today 7 added points will benefit in the end.

I think most people are failing to realize it is not as simple as that. It is not a simple case of Vettel being faster and having the right to disobey team orders. Webber's engines were revved down and he was asked to conserve his machinery. He was reassured twice by the team that Vettel would hold ground. That is why he chose to pit in late, and take on hard tyres for a safe run to the end. Remember, he had a comfortable 5 second lead before the Vettel pitted.

If he knew that Vettel would attack against team orders, a) he would have pit earlier to match Vettel's stop and in doing so retained his advantage, b) taken on the faster tyres as Vettel did and c) not put his car into conservation mode. If he had done all of those, you have to realize that Vettel wouldn't have been able to pass him, let alone so easily. Before that, Webber was the class of the field and deserved victory.

But it is of course no surprise that people want to project Vettel being a miracle driver. They see him pass Webber and it is simply "Oh, he is the better driver, that's why he passed him, that's why he deserves it". Formula 1 is not ever so simplistic.

Also, Ferrari are not hiring Vettel. Forget about it. At least not till Alonso retires.

 

[M@crosoft]

I remember,once in 09' or 10' season ,Ferrari were fined for telling Massa ,"Fernando is faster than you." during the race and Massa let him through.

Why no fine in this case ?

 

[onlyravi]

I remember,once in 09' or 10' season ,Ferrari were fined for telling Massa ,"Fernando is faster than you." during the race and Massa let him through.
Why no fine in this case ?

RedBull radio messages never said to any of the drivers to hold position or let the other one pass thru.... They use codes like some "Multi-21" or something.... that doesn't mean anything in the sane world....
And FIA is NOT CIA to grill teams over such petty issues. They are not good for anyone's business....

Last year Ferrari displayed the Italian marines flag on the front center panel of their F1 cars during the Indian grand prix to support the 2 marines held in India's custody... On being questioned by journalists FIA distanced themselves from this controversy saying they don't do politics...
If they dont care about issues that could row diplomatic tensions between countries... such internal team orders case is a very micro micro nano issue.... its not even worth to look into for them.
All they care is money.

 

[prabs]

I remember,once in 09' or 10' season ,Ferrari were fined for telling Massa ,"Fernando is faster than you." during the race and Massa let him through.

Why no fine in this case ?

2010 - That was the incident that brought back Team Orders and now they are legal. So there is nothing wrong with what Mercedes did or what Red Bull was doing. Vettel disobeying team orders is not FIA's problem.

 

[Arjun]

merc has been the fasted car china in the last two years , Rosberg pole & win

 

[prabs]

No updates? Well this is sad considering the season is just 3 races old and thread is already going stale.

Qualifying - Pretty boring. Would have been more exciting to look at the qualifying results directly (last 3 minutes was good but the fact that people were desperately trying to preserve tyres didn't help).

Race -
With Webber starting from the pit I thought the first 5 laps were going to be interesting but unfortunately he was called in at the end of the first lap. Sad he didn't finish the race but he was putting in a very good effort.
The front runners - A painfully slow start from Kimi (thanks to wrong settings) and a very good start from the Ferrari Boys set the stage. You knew Mercedes would be a sitting duck in a few laps and it did.
Didn't expect Massa to disappear, he was pitted a lap after Alonso but he should have quickly passed the cars in front with fresher tyres and caught up with Fred but he didn't (reminiscent of 2007 and 2008).
The first pit-stop by Mercedes was fantastic I think it was 3.3 stationery for both drivers (Do correct me if I am wrong). Sadly Rosberg had a mechanical failure. Lewis did well considering the car he has tends to eat up it's tyres faster than the other front-runners.
Perez was weaving on a number of occasions but I don't think Kimi running into his back was entirely his fault. It is said Kimi was alongside Perez when Perez started pushing him. I saw the front-view in replay and couldn't make it out. Nonetheless Kimi did an astounding job which was understeering from that point on to hold onto the second place. 2 races - 2 damaged cars and Kimi still drove like nothing had happened, makes one wonder how much of that car can be stripped before it really makes an impact or is Kimi really that good.
Vettel - Love him or hate him (I don't like him) but his last stint was phenomenal. If he had pitted a lap earlier I think he would have overtaken Lewis and even challenged Kimi or even made that place. If he lost grip on that lap after getting past one or both drivers he is crude enough to hold onto that position somehow.
Alonso - He had an easier race than Kimi in Australia which only made him optimistic. Ferrari is quick off the line, has good race pace, reliable and better in qualifying than they were last year. Overall the best car this season whether anyone admits it or not.
Button - Scavenger as usual.

P.S.:
The loose wheel of Webber was probably momentarily driven by Karma almost hitting Vettel.
2007 & 2008 Massa - I took note of Massa only in 2007 and 2008 eventhough he drove alongside Schumi before that. Why did it take me so long to notice him? He is/was not spectacular to watch and the only reason I took note of him in 2007 was Kimi joining Ferrari also it was a 4 way battle between Felipe, Fernando, Kimi and Lewis (First name - Alphabetically). What I found was Massa can be quick on an empty track but the moment he had to overtake someone (not lap a back marker) he would choke.

 

[Renegade]

It was a very different race due to the strategy adopted for drivers. I am still not sure if Kimi and Lotus are going to be race winner consistently. First race was one stop less which won the race, second race race spoiled by the rain, third race different strategies and a slow start by Kimi saw Ferrari run away with it.

Still waiting for a couple of normal races. Good thing is that the next race is just 6 days away.

 

[prabs]

Ferrari have a very quick car off the line and I think they can challenge for a race win even if they start on cleaner side of row 3 given their race pace and tyre wear is not very severe either.

The race in my opinion was a pretty normal and I think this will be the order till the next round of major updates (Mercedes's form can differ though).

 

[bottle]

The race pace was overall slow to me. Not sure if its still clear which is the fastest car since tyres are confusing things

 

[prabs]

I wonder how this season compares to 2005 when refuelling was allowed but tyres could not be changed.

The racing was still good and both Michelin and Bridgestone did an excellent job that year.

Considering there is no refuelling this year we need compounds from that year instead of the Pirelli Foam these guys are racing on this year.

 

[Renegade]

Considering there is no refuelling this year we need compounds from that year instead of the Pirelli Foam these guys are racing on this year.

Then there will be nothing much left to watch with no pit stops. Tyre management strategy and pit stops make it more exciting.