Front loading or top loading washing machine?

[gopal_agrawal]

Front loading or top loading washing machine?

I don't know if you are aware but at least here in Mumbai, 90% of the technicians out there simply persuade customers, almost force them to not go with anything inverter by saying that kharcha zaada badhta hai and that it gets damaged soon. Therefore they say it's not worth it even in ACs as...

techenclave.com

Thanks for pointing to the post. But as you mentioned inverter models are bit costly and I am tight on budget as well have very hard water at my apartment so the appliances dont last long. Any suggestions for Top Loader around 6-6.5kg.
I was looking at Onida and Godrej any idea about these brands?

 

[blr_p]

Thanks for pointing to the post. But as you mentioned inverter models are bit costly and I am tight on budget as well have very hard water at my apartment so the appliances dont last long. Any suggestions for Top Loader around 6-6.5kg.
I was looking at Onida and Godrej any idea about these brands?

Why don't you consider a water softener? The kind that uses salt. That will give you more options.

When you say very hard it helps to have a way to measure how hard. That will allow you to tell if the softener is working

 

[lockhrt999]

Thanks for pointing to the post. But as you mentioned inverter models are bit costly and I am tight on budget as well have very hard water at my apartment so the appliances dont last long. Any suggestions for Top Loader around 6-6.5kg.
I was looking at Onida and Godrej any idea about these brands?

Not much idea about current top loaders. Don't buy onida. It's not a real washing machine manufacturer so there won't be any spares after a few years. I had Videocon. Same thing with this too. Such indian brands import cheap machines from china and then go bankrupt. China also makes high quality stuff but these brands won't import them. Godrej is reputed but I don't know their washing machines. My relatives have samsung TL machines which are still working reliably after more than a decade. Here people are happy with their LG machines too.

If I were you, I would go with Amazon basics or Flipkart smartbuy (or whatever flipkart calls its own brand). I haven't yet bought anything amazon basics but I have had a couple of electronic items from flipkart smartbuy brand. Both were really good in quality and outlived their expected lifespan. I suppose warranty and support should be better than onida or videocon brands. Flipkart and Amazon are public facing companies and they will stay around longer than onida or videocon.

Do invest in water softener though as blr_p said. It's cheap to run and not to mention you could get away with less detergent. So it might not even cost a rupee more than running machine with hard water and more detergent.

Flipkart has 2000 or 1500 off coupons against super coins on washing machines. Check them out. Also expect to get exchange bonus for your old machine in the month long sale that starts from tomorrow. Not to mention bank discount. I expect samsung/LG inverter models to cost ~10k. You should search washing machine on desidime first. You will see many great deals. People over there know all kinds of tricks to lower the prices. Just time your purchase right and catch a great deal. Sale runs for almost a month so don't feel bad if you couldn't catch anything good or the bank discount didn't align with your banks in the first week. All banks will be given the chance.

 

[blr_p]

Do invest in water softener though as blr_p said. It's cheap to run and not to mention you could get away with less detergent. So it might not even cost a rupee more than running machine with hard water and more detergent.

There are two parameters here, One that the tech works and the second whether service is available in your city. The reviews on amazon are mixed for this kent model but the tech should do the job

Amazon.in

And the way to tell it works it not with a TDs meter but a water hardness test

Amazon.in

TDS might not change much but hardness will.

 

[6pack]

@blr_p, how to use these water softener salt tablets? Just put a few of them in the water tank? The reviewers don't know how to use these tabs probably.

MASHKI Water Softener Salt Tablets Water Purification Tablets or Pellet for Water Softener Regeneration for Home or Office (5) https://amzn.eu/d/3ifq6o3

 

[lockhrt999]

There are two parameters here, One that the tech works and the second whether service is available in your city. The reviews on amazon are mixed for this kent model but the tech should do the job

https://www.amazon.in/Kent-Washing-Machine-Softener-1-8-Litre/dp/B07HKZ4H58/?th=1

I was suggesting salt based water softeners. I have no idea how effective this ion-exchange thing is.

@blr_p, how to use these water softener salt tablets? Just put a few of them in the water tank? The reviewers don't know how to use these tabs probably.

How much salt you need to put is determined by hardness of your water. First find out the hardness then use the online guides to determine how much salt you need.

 

[blr_p]

I was suggesting salt based water softeners. I have no idea how effective this ion-exchange thing is.

Do you have a link to such a softener?

 

[lockhrt999]

Do you have a link to such a softener?

Check the link shared by 6pack abs.

 

[blr_p]

Check the link shared by 6pack abs.

Those are just salt tablets. You need a system to put them in. Where is that system?

This is what ion exchange does. It has a resin in the cylinder that needs to be replaced. The company say every 2 years and the cartridge costs around Rs.2k. Two years depends how hard i think their benchmark is 800 ppm hardness. If hardness is more then it will have too be replace more frequently.

An alternative is an RO system, that will remove hardness as well as reduce TDS. But it needs to put out a fair bit of water for a top loader. Almost 200 litres for a wash + 2 rinse cycles. Can an RO handle that kind of output within the time limit an automatic washing machine expects it ?

 

[lockhrt999]

Those are just salt tablets. You need a system to put them in. Where is that system?

In the water tank? Anything before the machine. One could very well put the salt in the drum itself but that won't keep inlets from rusting.

How does the ion exchange work? The product you shared doesn't take any salt.

 

[6pack]

In the water tank? Anything before the machine. One could very well put the salt in the drum itself but that won't keep inlets from rusting.

How does the ion exchange work? The product you shared doesn't take any salt.

I think even those tablets are not necessary. I saw this video on Kent water softener. Those tablets are put in the brine chamber on top of the resin chamber. If normal salt works then no need to buy those expensive tablets.

 

[gopal_agrawal]

Why don't you consider a water softener? The kind that uses salt. That will give you more options.

When you say very hard it helps to have a way to measure how hard. That will allow you to tell if the softener is working

We have a water softener at society level but not sure how much it reduces hardness. Have tested tds and it is above 600. I only see kent water softener for domestic use but the reviews are not that great so haven't bought it yet.
Also I would look for Samsung and LG models in upcoming sale.
My location is Pune so any service center would be easily available.
The long term reviews for Amazon Basic and Flipkart brand are not so good as well specially for large appliances.

 

[blr_p]

How does the ion exchange work? The product you shared doesn't take any salt.

Yes it does and you don't need any fancy salt pellets. Regular salt works.

The part to be careful about is the water used to add to the salt. It must be RO, low TDS so as to not contaminate the resin filter. I have a feeling people did not use pure water there and ended up spoiling the resin filter much before time and the result is no water softening takes place.

We have a water softener at society level but not sure how much it reduces hardness. Have tested tds and it is above 600. I only see kent water softener for domestic use but the reviews are not that great so haven't bought it yet.

TDS is not for water hardness. You need the below to test for water hardness

Amazon.in

I have no idea how effective this ion-exchange thing is.

It's effective, here is the proof

He reduced the water hardness from 750 ppm to 250. Here's the thing he forgot to run the bathroom tap for a bit so the sample he got was contaminated by existing water in the pipe. In reality, it's possible to get it down to 100ppm

That is 100mg of calcium carbonate per litre from over a thousand. This titration method is more accurate than colour strips if a little more tedious.

TDS will remain unaffected. TDS is meaningless in this context.

This is a measurable reduction in hardness. You get other gadgets on amazon that won't pass this test for cheaper, their claim is they don't precipitate salts. That does not mean you use less soap or detergent. The water is still hard and won't wash as well. Which is the point of getting an ion exchange softener and in the case of a front loader to prolong its life.

 

[nRiTeCh]

IN upcoming sale can you let me know any worthy washing machine deals? I do not want to open a separate thread just for the sake..

 

[blr_p]

IN upcoming sale can you let me know any worthy washing machine deals? I do not want to open a separate thread just for the sake..

You have to decide which machine you want first. Your family said top loader

So what is it going to be ?

I told you to check some things first as I don't even know whether you qualify for a front loader.

As for LG front loaders, this is list I posted some time back.

 

[lockhrt999]

An alternative is an RO system, that will remove hardness as well as reduce TDS. But it needs to put out a fair bit of water for a top loader. Almost 200 litres for a wash + 2 rinse cycles. Can an RO handle that kind of output within the time limit an automatic washing machine expects it ?

A single TL cycle takes about 150 liters. RO will waste 600 liters of water to make 150 liters.
While FL takes about 60 liters. RO will waste 240 liters of water to make that 60 liters. It'll be very slow and very expensive.

I think even those tablets are not necessary. I saw this video on Kent water softener. Those tablets are put in the brine chamber on top of the resin chamber. If normal salt works then no need to buy those expensive tablets.

Yes it does and you don't need any fancy salt pellets. Regular salt works.

There ya go. Khada salt is even cheaper. I think if the water is hard then it's better to go for front loader because it uses less water and ion exchanger should be able to fulfil it.

The long term reviews for Amazon Basic and Flipkart brand are not so good as well specially for large appliances.

Flipkart brand won't be as good as sam/LG but it's sure will be better than onida. My reasoning was, flipkart has a humongous supply and service network for their own products. They sale more products than onida, motorola and other small brands combined together.

 

[adder]

When I measured my whirpool front load water consumption by putting the drain pipe in a bucket/container with liter markings. Its was around 24L. This was eu energy A+ rated machine. The manual stated around 8.1 liters of water per kg of load.
These days we have A++ efficiency machines which use even less water.

check out the water consumption from this 2008 whirpool catalogue, the base model 5kg consumes more water then the flagship 7kg model. Mine being the EU built SUD701.

 

[blr_p]

A single TL cycle takes about 150 liters. RO will waste 600 liters of water to make 150 liters.
While FL takes about 60 liters. RO will waste 240 liters of water to make that 60 liters. It'll be very slow and very expensive.

That is one wasteful process. You don't notice it when drinking but those are crazy numbers

There ya go. Khada salt is even cheaper. I think if the water is hard then it's better to go for front loader because it uses less water and ion exchanger should be able to fulfil it.

What is Khada salt? you want high sodium without other unnecessary minerals in it as it will go straight into the resin. I guess this is why they went with food grade. Smaller granules dissolve faster too.

Simple test

Adulterant: Chalk powder

How to test: Take a teaspoon of salt and leave it in water for 20 minutes. A clear solution indicates purity while a white solution along with residue at the bottom indicates the presence of chalk.

Flipkart brand won't be as good as sam/LG but it's sure will be better than onida. My reasoning was, flipkart has a humongous supply and service network for their own products. They sale more products than onida, motorola and other small brands combined together.

What about spare parts availability? No parts, no service.

When I measured my whirpool front load water consumption by putting the drain pipe in a bucket/container with liter markings. Its was around 24L. This was eu energy A+ rated machine. The manual stated around 8.1 liters of water per kg of load.
These days we have A++ efficiency machines which use even less water.

check out the water consumption from this 2008 whirpool catalogue, the base model 5kg consumes more water then the flagship 7kg model. Mine being the EU built SUD701.

This is what my LG says

 

[nRiTeCh]

You have to decide which machine you want first. Your family said top loader

So what is it going to be ?

I told you to check some things first as I don't even know whether you qualify for a front loader.

As for LG front loaders, this is list I posted some time back.

Top loader.
And they want semi-auto due to some bad exp. with fully auto earlier.
Still will press them for a full auto.

 

[blr_p]

Top loader.
And they want semi-auto due to some bad exp. with fully auto earlier.
Still will press them for a full auto.

I am amazed they want a semi-auto given the amount of babysitting it requires.

What was the bad exp with fully auto earlier ?