Front loading or top loading washing machine?

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No not for every wash. I use that mostly for descaling and when clothes are very dirty.

You want to use 40 for every wash since it's available, for rinses as well. Given your water quality is questionable every little bit helps.

All clothes that go into the machine are dirty, so I don't see a difference between dirty or very.

You can control the temperature if you have a thermostatic valve. This is the ideal setup with machines that don't have a heater.

Is that possible or will that mean not enough water for other uses?

 

[gopal_agrawal]

You want to use 40 for every wash since it's available, for rinses as well. Given your water quality is questionable every little bit helps.

All clothes that go into the machine are dirty, so I don't see a difference between dirty or very.

You can control the temperature if you have a thermostatic valve. This is the ideal setup with machines that don't have a heater.

Is that possible or will that mean not enough water for other uses?

Getting hot water for every wash is not possible as it is not available 24*7.

 

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Getting hot water for every wash is not possible as it is not available 24*7.

Yeah, it does force you to wash at the end of the day.

But, the ideal time to put clothes out to dry when humidity is high is in the morning.

A built-in heater does have its uses. Good to have it if the option is available.

The options for that are either the Panasonic with a smaller tub or the IFB.

Samsung does have some models recently launched with heater. But the thing is they no longer have the manual on their website.

Whether this is just a delay or the result of cost-cutting isn't clear but it is following a regressive trend that I notice with Panasonic, Whirlpool and IFB as well

It means if ever you misplace the manual you're screwed. And that paper manual is going to take a beating over the years. You do need to consult it from time to time.

And most would rather do that on their phone. I could understand not printing the manual to save on costs but not withholding it after creating it.

Yours had a manual because it was an older machine. So easy to understand what it can do.

 

[roygarg]

Off topic but what does the Amazon executive check for in the old washing machine when picking up the exchange? Delivery is tomorrow and my old top load has started to make a grinding sound at the start of the spin cycle. The sound stops and again starts when the spin cycle is about to end.

 

[lockhrt999]

Off topic but what does the Amazon executive check for in the old washing machine when picking up the exchange? Delivery is tomorrow and my old top load has started to make a grinding sound at the start of the spin cycle. The sound stops and again starts when the spin cycle is about to end.

They check the spin cycle upto a minute.

 

[technofast]

Off topic but what does the Amazon executive check for in the old washing machine when picking up the exchange? Delivery is tomorrow and my old top load has started to make a grinding sound at the start of the spin cycle. The sound stops and again starts when the spin cycle is about to end.

When I exchanged the WM through Amazon they just plugged the WM to see if it powers on and that's it. I had the same problem as you had mentioned and I had already removed it from the designated place. They did not further ask any questions.

 

[roygarg]

Alright. Fingers crossed then.

 

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Went looking for videos of an IFB top load with a heater which can be used to understand the recommended models I linked to on the previous page.

It's a basic model with a heater which I don't recommend but gives an idea of the conditions of use and limits which should be well understood

From the video, I understood this model has only two programs with heating

1) The Smart Sense program (the machine's default auto program)

- without heating, the water level defaults to level 3 (out of a total of 4 levels) and completing just the wash cycle takes 27 mins

- at 40 degrees, the water level defaults to level 3 but the wash cycle time goes up to 87 minutes which I guess is the max water level. So three times longer than no heating. There will also be two extra rinses which add another 36 mins. So a 40 degree wash is going to take at least two hours compared to 59 minutes for a no-heating wash.

This is perfectly ok. For comparison, my FL takes the same time to do a light load at 40. Two hours with more load and close to three hours if heavier.

- at 60 degrees, the water level defaults to level 1, and the wash cycle time reduces by a minute to 86 min. Level 1 (25%) is the max water level and the corresponding load you can wash at 60 degrees.


2) The Jeans program

- without heating, the water level defaults to level 3 and to complete cycle takes 80mins

- at 40 degrees, the water level defaults to level 3 and the wash cycle time goes up to 3 hours.

- at 60 degrees, the water level defaults to level 1 but the wash cycle time still remains at 3 hours.



Can't find any users that verified the water temperature is what they claim. But it sounds about right going by the Panasonic.

The Korean top loaders have models with heaters but they only offer steam. There is no temperature setting for the wash cycle on any Korean top loader I've seen to date.

There are two companies that make top loaders with heaters which will warm up the water during a wash cycle. IFB & Panasonic.

Delivery is tomorrow and my old top load has started to make a grinding sound at the start of the spin cycle. The sound stops and again starts when the spin cycle is about to end.

Sounds like a bearings problem which means the seals have started to fail.

How old is it and what is the model number?

 

[nRiTeCh]

I visited VSP today and was shocked when the assistant told us that any brand/ any washing machine can be used with any types of water- soft/hard/bore etc.
He said if there were any such specifications, then people would have opted only for specific brands/models or brands would have come out with such specifications. and that Drum etc. never gets damaged!

Hearing this there was obviously no point in waiting there and asking for any recommendations further due their insane lack of knowledge..

Finally after a brief study I have decided-

To not go for any IFB as they are only available on IFB website and on amazon/fk only one common model and hence cannot risk as no reviews for the other models which seemingly look promising but really cannot risk at all.
Though I have to compromise on their Aqua Energie/hot water/10yr parts etc. features.

No good options in Samsung as well as many negative/mixed reviews on AM/FK so finally decided to opt for LG.

So might go for either of these.

Just a suggestion required: The 7kg ones got these features: Smart Closing Door/Jet Spray+/Prewash while it misses on Turbo Soak/Beeper which are on 6.5kg variant.

Going by the definition for Turbo Soak, increased water temps means does it has temp. control, I wasn't able to find any. And There is no Beeper in the 7kg I'm rather surprised its a very basic feature, how come no sound for any actions and hows one going to know about wash completion or other actions ?

Kindly clear the air!

Lastly, if there's still some room for Samsung suggestions, I might go through those as tomorrows anyways I'm going to order online.

And also recommend me trolley wheels for washing machine if we need to stick to any trusted brand as I want to avoid bends/cracks and breakages once the machine gets placed on it.

 

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I visited VSP today and was shocked when the assistant told us that any brand/ any washing machine can be used with any types of water- soft/hard/bore etc.
He said if there were any such specifications, then people would have opted only for specific brands/models or brands would have come out with such specifications. and that Drum etc. never gets damaged!

With a top loader, there is no drum to get damaged like a front loader. But hard water will affect your wash quality and deposits can confuse sensors so regular descaling is required if your water is hard. If it is too hard then you need a water softener. This is why I've advised you to get a water hardness kit so you know where you stand and regularly test so no surprises happen if your water supply gets switched without any advance notification. Machines are sensitive to these things. Watch the water quality and you should be good with any brand.

Hearing this there was obviously no point in waiting there and asking for any recommendations further due their insane lack of knowledge..

Finally after a brief study I have decided-

To not go for any IFB as they are only available on IFB website and on amazon/fk only one common model and hence cannot risk as no reviews for the other models which seemingly look promising but really cannot risk at all.
Though I have to compromise on their Aqua Energie/hot water/10yr parts etc. features.

I've recommended three models from the IFB website to check out as they have a heater so better quality washing. I don't know what the issue is buying from their website. They offer a 5% discount.

A better question is why they aren't listing their models like Koreans on Amazon/FK. What is the story there? the only model they have there is so basic it's not worth it. I mean why go for it when you can spend a few k more and get better features that will serve you throughout the life of the machine?

See, with top loaders there isn't much to go wrong and what does go wrong is common. Has Belt broken? no problem. Recirculating pump broken? no problem. The motor is up to the company and if it's belt driven and you don't have voltage reaching 275V or dropping below 220V then it should be ok. This is not cutting-edge tech. It's pretty old-school stuff. PCB gone? you will have to replace that as the board is covered with epoxy so no component repair is possible. If it is not then you might be able to get it repaired for less than the cost of the PCB. Bearings go that is a standard fix. There is no sealed drum to worry about so repair is possible and should not cost too much. Pune is next to Goa so no chance of parts shortage. Now there might be issues with the touch panel due to humidity. But when people recommend to get discrete parts like this

Won't that panel also face humidity problems? @lockhrt999 It's not sealed like membrane panels are. Will be more at risk of water damage from wet clothes since its upfront than at the back.

The annoying thing is you can't get that UI with a heater. No heater only if you want that UI. At least no below 25k which the above machine is.

Koreans top loaders are all membrane panels.

I would not put too much stock on IFB's warranty on parts. People are under the impression if it breaks after two years and the warranty is 4 years then parts will be covered. This is a grey zone. If you pay you will get the fix quick. Otherwise, they may drag their feet.

what people don't realise is longevity is more up to the user than the brand. Many times problems are due to either ignorance or abuse. These people then blame the company and leave negative reviews. There's no way to ask these people what happened to determine where the fault lies.

 

[nRiTeCh]

I've recommended three models from the IFB website to check out as they have a heater so better quality washing. I don't know what the issue is buying from their website. They offer a 5% discount.

A better question is why they aren't listing their models like Koreans on Amazon/FK. What is the story there? the only model they have there is so basic it's not worth it. I mean why go for it when you can spend a few k more and get better features that will serve you throughout the life of the machine?

I already mentioned not going for IFB due to nobody owning those machines around nor any reviews anywhere.

 

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I already mentioned not going for IFB due to nobody owning those machines around nor any reviews anywhere.

There are no reviews for the models I recommended but there are reviews of similar IFB products and that gives us an idea of what to expect on FK averaging 4+ and on amazon

As for amazon reviews when I was looking at the models @gopal_agrawal posted the recurring theme seemed to be rinsing and its quality. After looking through the manuals I figure this will not be a problem at all. If people don't bother to understand the product then I don't go with what they say.

Why isn't IFB offering more on Amazon ? might be because of commission reasons. Amazon takes their cut which leaves IFB less. And if all Amazon & FK offer is an online platform then IFB offering the same allows them to sell at competitive prices and not pay a commission.

The only thing that puts me off with IFB is people saying nobody comes when they raise a complaint. If you are ignored because there isn't enough staff that is a problem. The way to figure this one isn't to go to big box stores but IFB's network of sellers. Agents for IFB and question them on their support network and maybe you can learn a thing or two that may be true in your city if not in other cities. They will have a better idea and chances are you will get better service if you buy from them.

The only question to answer is will you get service when you need it? absolutely crucial with home appliances. Otherwise, the best machine is not good enough. This won't be a problem with LG or Samsung. Whether you are happy with the service is a different matter but you will get attention. So they can sell machines with fewer features and still command enough sales to support their network. Brands either live or die through these networks.

I was leaning towards the Koreans earlier as I did not think there were any products that offered heaters in top loaders. The highest-end LG top loader only offers steam. There are cheaper sammy's but again only steam. No 40 degree washes.

That IFB is offering heaters in your price range makes it compelling. As is the Panasonic. The difference in tub sizes between the two is 52L vs 55L. A washer that heats at 40 is going to clean better than a machine that cannot when your water temperature is lower and it will be consistent which means easier to use. It will take time to complete the load but isn't the goal to have clean clothes. What does your family think of two-hour long washes when they are used to half that time with semi-automatics and doing babysitting?

I was looking at the official Twitter pages of these companies and noticed there is an interesting pattern emerging. I find the companies that have the most complaints are

IFB & Whirlpool tied at the top spot. Many say never buy IFB or Whirlpool. Their products are bad. Service is bad, Warranty is fake bla bla

Next is LG, then Samsung and Panasonic.

What can we conclude with this? the companies that sell the most are the ones that have the complaints. Panasonic is new so very few have their products so far.

Samsung does not sell as much in the appliance space and hence the aggressive discounting with some models.

 

[lockhrt999]

LG 8KG Front Loader at 26.7k on Amazon and 27.5k on FK.

How?

Edit: Also, Samsung 6KG front loader was available for 15,999 for some time. I hope somebody caught it.

 

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Whirlpool has a top load with a heater but there is no fabric softener compartment with this model. Can use it as a reference to get an idea of other models. Review

Amazon.in

No manuals with whirlpool so at the mercy of people who upload relevant pages of the manual.

Check out this Amazon review of Whirlpool 6.5 Kg 4 Star StainWash Fully-Automatic Top Loading Washing Machine (STAINWASH PRO H 6.5, Shiny Grey, In-Built Heater)

No separate tray for softener. All else good.

www.amazon.in

Found a manual for an Indian machine from 2015 and there is no mention of water levels at all !! so no idea what size the tub is

Let's go to Singapore and we discover water level 8 on a 9.0kg model is 60L. I tried to match the dimensions of this one to the amazon one above as the smaller 7.5kg model from Singapore was only 45L

Still need a confirmation of the drum dimensions as the amazon reviewer linked above said

I feel a capacity of 6.5 is small for a family of 2 adults and 2 small kids. Go in for the larger variant, its not a con of the machine though.

What I'm noticing with these whirlpools is they

- lack an imbalance sensor. So they will start spinning and shake violently like this review if clothes aren't evenly distributed. So you have to redistribute the clothes yourself. They won't try and adjust the load on their own. An auto balance sensor is an important feature to have. OR the transit bolts have not been removed. IN the review above she says you must only wash a full load otherwise the machine goes out of balance.

- Lack a manual mode. If you want to add more rinses in the cycle its not possible. You have to run a separate rinse&dry program after. Which is ok but would have been better to have the option to add an extra rinse if desired.

Check out this Amazon review of Whirlpool 7 Kg 5 Star Fully-Automatic Top Loading Washing Machine with In-Built Heater (STAINWASH ULTRA 7.0, Grey, 3D Scrub Technology, Hard Water Wash)

BEST MACHINE UNDER 20K, Value for Money and Good buy

www.amazon.in

There is no manual washing option. If you straight away want to jump to washing in any of the wash programs (from P1 to P12) then you cannot do that. It is something should be given but you will need to stick with it and let it do its thing. But this feature should have saved a lot of time. So in a normal washing program machine will do the soaking then wait>washing>waiting>Rinse>waiting>spin/dry. So you cannot straight away jump at things. If you accidentally pressed the stop button then program will start from soaking again which is painful to watch because you know it was on the washing phase but you cannot push it forward to your liking.

P11 is wash only and P12 is dry only., that's about it.

- No drum clean program but that can be improvised using the heavy program and hot water.

 

[lockhrt999]

Learnt couple of things this week,

1. My FL machine supposed to have one of biggest drums and the capacity is rated 7KG. Still I could fit only 4 KG of everyday clothes into my machine volumetrically. For an ideal wash I shouldn't exceed ~3 KG.
2. Front loader washing machines (and dishwashers too) all have one standard length, width, height. That's because these dimensions are defined in ISO.
3. If 1 and 2 are correct, then I don't know what's the point of getting 7, 8, 9 KG machines if the drum literally can't accommodate that many clothes. The drum volume is being bottlenecked by the ISO standards. Washing machine can't have bigger drums.

I might as well put a brick in there to use all of the rated capacity.

 

[nRiTeCh]

Learnt couple of things this week,

1. My FL machine supposed to have one of biggest drums and the capacity is rated 7KG. Still I could fit only 4 KG of everyday clothes into my machine volumetrically. For an ideal wash I shouldn't exceed ~3 KG.
2. Front loader washing machines (and dishwashers too) all have one standard length, width, height. That's because these dimensions are defined in ISO.
3. If 1 and 2 are correct, then I don't know what's the point of getting 7, 8, 9 KG machines if the drum literally can't accommodate that many clothes. The drum volume is being bottlenecked by the ISO standards. Washing machine can't have bigger drums.

I might as well put a brick in there to use all of the rated capacity.

This was told us by croma executives as well that 6.5kg doesn't mean you will be able to force in 6kgs of clothes but it can only accommodate some 3-3.5kg.
See it like a 1tb hdd with actual usable space of 930gb

 

[blr_p]

Learnt couple of things this week,

1. My FL machine supposed to have one of biggest drums and the capacity is rated 7KG. Still I could fit only 4 KG of everyday clothes into my machine volumetrically. For an ideal wash I shouldn't exceed ~3 KG.
2. Front loader washing machines (and dishwashers too) all have one standard length, width, height. That's because these dimensions are defined in ISO.
3. If 1 and 2 are correct, then I don't know what's the point of getting 7, 8, 9 KG machines if the drum literally can't accommodate that many clothes. The drum volume is being bottlenecked by the ISO standards. Washing machine can't have bigger drums.

I might as well put a brick in there to use all of the rated capacity.

1. 3kg of dry weight but how much is that in wet weight? that is what the motor has to deal with.

3. Of course they can, these days. These are official volume figures are from LG Germany's website. I've measured smaller by 5-10%

6.5 kg is 42 litre drum
8 kg is 59 litre drum, same is 7kg.
9 kg is 68 litre drum, same is 10.5kg
12 kg is 81 litre 24" wide same side's like full size dishwasher
15 kg is 127 litre, same for 17kg & 22kg
22 kg is equivalent of 5 cu ft.

Width is 70 cm, Depth is 77 cm and Height is 99 cm
Same dimensions for 17kg. Drum volume is 127 litres
Same dimensions for 15kg. Drum volume is 127 litres


if you want a 55cm depth then 8kg is the smallest you will get right now. I would agree there is no need for a higher weight rating unless you want a still bigger drum and those exist. Five years back 8kg has a volume of around 63 litres. It had a depth of 60 cm. The 7kg with a depth of 55cm was around 55L

 

[Mr.J]

Learnt couple of things this week,

1. My FL machine supposed to have one of biggest drums and the capacity is rated 7KG. Still I could fit only 4 KG of everyday clothes into my machine volumetrically. For an ideal wash I shouldn't exceed ~3 KG.
2. Front loader washing machines (and dishwashers too) all have one standard length, width, height. That's because these dimensions are defined in ISO.
3. If 1 and 2 are correct, then I don't know what's the point of getting 7, 8, 9 KG machines if the drum literally can't accommodate that many clothes. The drum volume is being bottlenecked by the ISO standards. Washing machine can't have bigger drums.

I might as well put a brick in there to use all of the rated capacity.

The capacity is there to handle heavy clothes like blankets or curtains. They can easily go to 6kg or beyond depending on the material.

 

[lockhrt999]

This was told us by croma executives as well that 6.5kg doesn't mean you will be able to force in 6kgs of clothes but it can only accommodate some 3-3.5kg.
See it like a 1tb hdd with actual usable space of 930gb

Yes, but if you buy 2TB hdd you get 1800gb usable space. My point was, 7 to 10 kg washing machines use the same drum. Drum isn't getting bigger.

3kg of dry weight but how much is that in wet weight? that is what the motor has to deal with.

I think the stated weight capacity is dry.

3. Of course they can, these days. These are official volume figures are from LG Germany's website. I've measured smaller by 5-10%

6.5 kg is 42 litre drum
8 kg is 59 litre drum, same is 7kg.
9 kg is 68 litre drum, same is 10.5kg
12 kg is 81 litre 24" wide same side's like full size dishwasher
15 kg is 127 litre, same for 17kg & 22kg
22 kg is equivalent of 5 cu ft.

It might be true for LG, but my 7kg Samsung machine drum has diameter of 50cm. Outer tub diameter will be 55cm. That leave only 2.5 cm of wiggle room on either side. Meaning the drum is already as big as it could possibly get within the limit of 60cm machine width.

My point was that, upto 10kg capacity, the same drum will be used. And this drum has the volumetric capacity of 4kg only.

Machines higher than 10-11 kg are fatter too. They can have bigger drums and maybe these are used at commercial level. But machines between 7 to 11 kg are pure money grab products without any bigger tangible benefits.

The capacity is there to handle heavy clothes like blankets or curtains.

The bedding program is limited to 2 KG only regardless of the total capacity of the machine.

 

[adder]

Learnt couple of things this week,

1. My FL machine supposed to have one of biggest drums and the capacity is rated 7KG. Still I could fit only 4 KG of everyday clothes into my machine volumetrically. For an ideal wash I shouldn't exceed ~3 KG.
2. Front loader washing machines (and dishwashers too) all have one standard length, width, height. That's because these dimensions are defined in ISO.
3. If 1 and 2 are correct, then I don't know what's the point of getting 7, 8, 9 KG machines if the drum literally can't accommodate that many clothes. The drum volume is being bottlenecked by the ISO standards. Washing machine can't have bigger drums.

I might as well put a brick in there to use all of the rated capacity.

If you look at manuals/ cycle chart of most Front loader. They claim you can put the Max load at cotton cycle, all the front loaders increases the wash time by 2x to 3x vs say a daily/mix load cycle which is usually capped at 2.5kg to 4kg which is done in around 1hr.

In LG most of the 7kg have the smaller depth then the 8 and 9kg models. Only one 7kg model had a drum same as the 8, 9kg.

The lg 10.5kg model has next bigger drum size.
But even in this model for the mixed/daily load cycle, it can only take 0.5kg higher load then a 7kg, 8kg, 9kg models which have the same size drums.

But the hard to find whirlpool FL. The 7, 8, 9 kg all have different size drums. With some of their belt driven model 8kg having a bigger drum then the 9kg direct drive.