GST and its impact on YOU!

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NotMyRealName

Guest
Sense is a rarity in all the things that the govt and banks have been doing these days. I too would have expected the taxes to be applicable only on the transaction fee, but with the present situation, I do not know anymore.

The goal of banks like SBI which are in bad shape these days seems to be to put charges on anything and everything and secondly restrict people from using their money and they are using the Govt order to all banks asking them to discourage cash transactions as their reasoning. Given that context, if the newspaper is saying that they are taxing the entire transaction amount, then I would be inclined to believe that unless somebody actually went through this and can confirm that it is not the case.

I sure hope to god that you and TOI are wrong. But yeah, i wouldn't put anything past this govt. at this point...
 

swatkats

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Some prices of groceries have been hiked by 6-10%. Not Sure How much bad it'll hit the pockets.

I was asking talking with my local trader, He was saying Rice bag prices will increase by 5% because of the branded thing.

And also shame on these idiots for putting taxes on equipment used by Disable people.

I wouldn't be surprised if they tax for marrying and having children.
 
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abhi1984

Well-Known Member
Disciple
I was talking to a colleague whose brother was a customs official within the state government. Here's what he told - GST has caused some major upheaval. Many of the state employees who were working in the tax departments, taxes which were subsumed by GST, are now literally jobless. They have to be moved into audit departments to . There are no more multiple "check posts" between states and flow of goods is much smoother.

Though the highlight has been in the way tax collection are supposed to work. Previously there were government employees, for example near a manufacturing site, to ensure people don't skimp on reporting taxes. This meant more over head for everyone. With GST collection being more central than state, units are now being asked to pay taxes themselves without someone on top of their head.

But, fines are no longer meager. So if you are caught skimping on the tax, you might end up paying through your nose.

That said, the issue has been a very small window for registration and roll out. Not many people are trained and aware. We own a shop and most of the time getting the GST TIN was a pain in the ass.
 

nishthecooldude

Well-Known Member
Adept
Had my first negative effect of GST. 2nd in total.

1. Yesterday bought some groceries from a big hyper market. I was surprised that almost everything, including the packaged buns i bought were tax free. I thought it was only for loose items. One packaged meat item i bought was charged GST 6+6%.

2. Today ordered food online via Foodpanda. The restaurant previously didn't apply tax separately, some other places did, so i'm assuming their prices were tax inclusive. Well today's bill had the old prices with additional GST of 9+9%. This should have been earlier price minus earlier tax rate plus GST. When i asked them they said they didn't have anything to do with it, Foodpanda has taken that tax amount. So basically in the confusion, some parties are making hay...

Call this teething troubles or whatever, bottom line is my pocket is being pinched unnecessarily. I don't care about what party does what, but I do care about who is ripping me off...

Post the Food Panda bill on FB/Twitter and let them reply why have they done like this if it wasn't done earlier. If you have old bill then it would be really great.
 

Lord Nemesis

Overlord
Skilled
Rest assured that within a year, interest on savings and deposits will become non-existent. As I said, there is neither the need or capability to pay interest with all the money of the common people at least being forced into banks. We would be lucky if the banks don't start charging us to keep the money.
 
N

NotMyRealName

Guest
Post the Food Panda bill on FB/Twitter and let them reply why have they done like this if it wasn't done earlier. If you have old bill then it would be really great.

I called their CC and had some arguments with them. Their excuse was some restaurants charge tax, some don't. But now GST is mandatory. As if they are the damn GST police. They asked me for the current bill from the restaurant. I also referred them to the past order history in the app itself. In the end they said they will refund the 18% GST amount back to my card...

...gorram taxes.

I miss firefly... probly time for a rewatch...
 
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random2

Well-Known Member
Adept
Quite a lot of things are mixed up here and quite a bit of FUD too. I am no expert but have been following GST scene for last ~10months as I will have to collect and pay GST.

* All banking related stuff - the increase is only to do with Service tax of 15% being replaced by GST of 18%. NOTHING ELSE CHANGES (There is no tax on interest payable - That would be nonsense and illogical)
Example - NEFT charge was Rs 5 + ST (on Rs 5) Now Rs 5 + GST (on Rs 5)

* Cut in interest rates has nothing to do with GST. Dynamics of interest rate is dependent on demand/supply of debt
Yes, deposit rates will go down as liquidity increases (RBI decreasing repo rates)
Dont expect 10% for FD and loan interest rate to be at 5% at the same time.

* Small window of registration -
It was open since Sept-Oct 2016 for VAT collectors - Thats 6+ months
GST transition for Service providers was started in Jan 2017 - Again 6+ months - And it took max of around an hour to do it

* The reason state tax officials are upset is that it will reduce a lot of their overlooking and hence the possibility of reduced bribes (But they have demanded all audits for businesses with turnover less than 1.5cr. Have to see how this pans out)

* For quite a lot of small businesses, it is not as bad as they say. For revenues less than 75lakhs a year, the filing requirements are quarterly and they just need to pay 1% - 5% based on type of business (Composition scheme)

* States cannot impose additional tax on each and everything. They can only do it for - Vehicle registrations, Fuel, Entertainment

Few genuine issues with GST

* Though GST has come into place, the required filing templates are not yet ready. This is insane

* More clarity was needed and step by step help system for businesses on deciding taxes should have been provided

* The filing system eases lot of things for the government but they dumped most of the complexity on tax payers (CAs/accountants are very happy as they are going to get lot of business due to this)

* People are taking advantage of the confusion and charging customers more. Example - Small businesses with revenue less than 75l/year cannot even collect. But they are charging GST

* People spreading FUD. Including this thread
 

Lord Nemesis

Overlord
Skilled
* All banking related stuff - the increase is only to do with Service tax of 15% being replaced by GST of 18%. NOTHING ELSE CHANGES (There is no tax on interest payable - That would be nonsense and illogical)
Example - NEFT charge was Rs 5 + ST (on Rs 5) Now Rs 5 + GST (on Rs 5)

Interest on personal loan (particularly those taken against credit card) is taxable under service tax and also now under GST.
Loan Interest can technically be seen as a long term fee for the loan and there is nothing stopping it from being taxable as a service fee. It not being taxed so far because interest collection pertaining to certain banking/finance sectors was specifically exempted under the service tax laws. If a exemption is not given under GST law it would become taxable. That was where all the confusion arose because 3 months back, the govt was considering not giving an exemption for it. Same for rent collection since renting is also a service. Rent on residential properties and certain other categories were exempted from service tax and if the same exemptions were not given under GST laws, it would have become taxable.
 

random2

Well-Known Member
Adept
Interest on personal loan (particularly those taken against credit card) is taxable under service tax and also now under GST.
Loan Interest can technically be seen as a long term fee for the loan and there is nothing stopping it from being taxable as a service fee. It not being taxed so far because interest collection pertaining to certain banking/finance sectors was specifically exempted under the service tax laws. If a exemption is not given under GST law it would become taxable. That was where all the confusion arose because 3 months back, the govt was considering not giving an exemption for it. Same for rent collection since renting is also a service. Rent on residential properties and certain other categories were exempted from service tax and if the same exemptions were not given under GST laws, it would have become taxable.

Regarding CC, there is a reason they call it 'Finance Charge' and not interest (and a big discussion can be had on its own). And ofcourse it incurs ST (now GST) - check your CC statement. Further talk about this on a GST discussion is useless. The point is 'you' wont be paying tax(ST/GST) for any 'interest' 'you owe'.

Tax on renting is totally different than interest. And the changes made were more towards IT TDS than ST/GST (and again this change was not part of GST, but a different one made as part of budget).

Simple thing - Banking services - wherever ST of 15% was there, replace it with GST of 18% [NO OTHER CHANGE AS PART OF GST]
 

nac

Well-Known Member
Adept
Bubble top water can price increased due to GST. When asked that I am not getting billed for water can, I am told that they are paying so the hike. :(
Tax for drinking water :mad::mad::mad: that's too bad.
 

Lord Nemesis

Overlord
Skilled
Just an information for people who can't math

This isn't 3% increase in tax. This is 20% increase. I've actually heard people saying jump from 15 to 18 is 3% increase. :bored:
That's not how percentages work.

20% ((18-15)/15) increase over previous service tax amount. 3% increase in reference to the base cost.
 

abhi1984

Well-Known Member
Disciple
Quite a lot of things are mixed up here and quite a bit of FUD too. I am no expert but have been following GST scene for last ~10months as I will have to collect and pay GST.

* All banking related stuff - the increase is only to do with Service tax of 15% being replaced by GST of 18%. NOTHING ELSE CHANGES (There is no tax on interest payable - That would be nonsense and illogical)
Example - NEFT charge was Rs 5 + ST (on Rs 5) Now Rs 5 + GST (on Rs 5)

* Cut in interest rates has nothing to do with GST. Dynamics of interest rate is dependent on demand/supply of debt
Yes, deposit rates will go down as liquidity increases (RBI decreasing repo rates)
Dont expect 10% for FD and loan interest rate to be at 5% at the same time.

* Small window of registration -
It was open since Sept-Oct 2016 for VAT collectors - Thats 6+ months
GST transition for Service providers was started in Jan 2017 - Again 6+ months - And it took max of around an hour to do it

* The reason state tax officials are upset is that it will reduce a lot of their overlooking and hence the possibility of reduced bribes (But they have demanded all audits for businesses with turnover less than 1.5cr. Have to see how this pans out)

* For quite a lot of small businesses, it is not as bad as they say. For revenues less than 75lakhs a year, the filing requirements are quarterly and they just need to pay 1% - 5% based on type of business (Composition scheme)

* States cannot impose additional tax on each and everything. They can only do it for - Vehicle registrations, Fuel, Entertainment

Few genuine issues with GST

* Though GST has come into place, the required filing templates are not yet ready. This is insane

* More clarity was needed and step by step help system for businesses on deciding taxes should have been provided

* The filing system eases lot of things for the government but they dumped most of the complexity on tax payers (CAs/accountants are very happy as they are going to get lot of business due to this)

* People are taking advantage of the confusion and charging customers more. Example - Small businesses with revenue less than 75l/year cannot even collect. But they are charging GST

* People spreading FUD. Including this thread
Succinctly put. I agree to most of the post including the point on FUD. But,

the point of "small registration windows" was made keeping in mind the genuine issues you have highlighted with GST. Yes, Sep 2016 was the first window and then restarted again, still running. But many wanted to avoid the confusion emanating later from a tax code which was ever evolving. Till early June I could find info saying the composition upper limit was 50 lakhs. Then 11th of June this happens:
http://www.cbec.gov.in/resources//h...f;jsessionid=06FC2FFD432310DA4204AAD603EA4DFF

We tried early June window but couldn't open the site at all.

The best part is not even government employees are clear on what is happening. Why blame the businesses for taking out the brunt of the "indirect taxes" on customers?

Example, a friend's father who operated a very small business with turnover of ~15 lakhs. He was under state VAT. When he approached the "tax babu" about the lower limit in GST (which btw is 20 lakhs). He dint want to transition to GST. The babu instead of checking his books, auditing and reconfirming told him to close his business. The babu's attitude was - either transition from VAT to GST or close your daily operations, no other option. Now what is my friend's father supposed to do? He thinks it's much safer to collect taxes from people rather than paying from his pocket specially given his size of business. Whose fault is it?

I am all for the change GST is bringing change. It is a singular tax which makes things very easy. No longer issues of "we cannot ship to x, y, z state because..VAT". But the way this has been handled is beyond terrible. Opening newspaper everyday to find your tax code has changed is not something people want.
 

Mr.J

Well-Known Member
Skilled
20% ((18-15)/15) increase over previous service tax amount. 3% increase in reference to the base cost.
I know but my point was there are people who confuse latter with former. And in turn they also misunderstand/massively underestimate tax collection.
 
N

NotMyRealName

Guest
If one were to speak it out in a sentence it would be, "the tax has increased by 20%". Or "the govt's tax revenue has increased by 20%". Neither are 3%. Maybe you could say "the rate of tax has increased by 3 percentage points". Don't see why people want to sugarcoat everything than accept the often bitter truth.

Also lol @ FUD. You have a govt. that is openly breaking the law, blatantly perverting the course of justice, law and order, abusing the constitutional rights of it's citizens, promoting communal disharmony, and basically ripping off the common man since they got into power, while making the wealthy wealthier. So you can't blame people for being apprehensive and wary of every step they take or plan to. Also, me personally, with the experience of the last 3 years, i'm fearful of what they'll do next, uncertain about their intentions and doubt anything they do is going to affect me in a positive way. So yeah, FUD...
 
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