Mac OS I finally get it about Apple fanboys

Repped you!

Sub said:
The biggest problem is the GDI. The entire graphics architecture is very poor. This is not helped by the fact that NVIDIA and AMD driver teams pour 99% effort into Windows drivers and we know how dependent on drivers graphics cards are. On Linux distros at least there are open source drivers. On Mac, you have to deal with flaky drivers with missing features, instability and poor performance and you can go months and months without driver updates and basic showstopping bugs remaining unfixed. And when the update does come, it does so at the expense of crippling performance or other bugs, which again takes few months more to fix.... It is really painful. And let me not even get to the fact that the fastest graphics card available for a Mac Pro is Quadro 4000 (of course the Mac edition costs more than the non-Mac one...), which is quite slow. Oh, and there are just two PCI-e slots without using an expander! While Windows or Linux machines can race ahead with Quadro 6000 or GTX 580 which are 2-3 times faster respectively and can use many of them. Then comes other limitations with the GDI such as it is restricted to 8-bit, while today's cameras shoot upto 16-bit, etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on and on. Of course, Windows has the absolute killer feature - Direct3D. That's the whole deal with Apple - they don't care about what you want - they will only give you what they want. If you are lucky enough to subscribe to their beliefs, good for you! Unlike other companies which look out to cater for customers, meet their demands - and suffer for it with much lower margins and less rigid integration. What this also means that for the few usage scenarios they had in mind, Apple products will work great. If you want to do something else, it's not pretty. Here's a simple example - my professional work is based around CUDA (Premiere Pro, Davinci Resolve - can't do without CUDA). Try buying a Macbook with NVIDIA.

Now, this is news to me. I used to think MB are better than Wintel/Win-AMD laptops. On the cost issue, it is always there. If you have a product that is for Apple, it has to be expensive.

Sub said:
Once again, today, for casual use these weaknesses will not show through. But with everything going visual, and everything non-visual being accelerated by GPUs... In the long term, there's absolutely no doubt that Apple is going ARM and OS X is merging with iOS. Future Macbooks will look more like iPads with keyboards. Apple are smart - they know that most of the money is in the casual user base and the finicky minded - high performance and technically impressive products make far less money than glossy, well designed, well marketed but technically shallow ones.

Just as W8 will run on ARM, they plan to do the same. And yup, as every one know, the high end market is not as lucrative as the mid and low end ones.

Sub said:
Microsoft has also realized this, but they are dedicated to a much more flexible and powerful ecosystem. With Windows 8, Microsoft brings an OS that is several times faster, more efficient and easier to use than any desktop OS out there (it is on par with Android and iOS), while underneath lies suspended the entire Windows beast. Best of both worlds.

:yeah:
Sub said:
They are much easier to find because 88% PCs use Windows while 6% PCs use OS X. But I do agree - a lot of Mac users have incredible brand loyalty, a recent documentary proved it was a religious thing rather than a rational one. I find that very interesting.

Yup, even I get the same feeling about Jobism....... ;)
 
vivek.krishnan said:
Now, this is news to me. I used to think MB are better than Wintel/Win-AMD laptops. On the cost issue, it is always there. If you have a product that is for Apple, it has to be expensive.
I was just talking about the OS. The hardware is a different issue. This is another important point - the illusion that Macbooks are better. Almost every Macbook owner I know previously were used to Windows/Linux laptops that cost less than half the price. So moving from Dell Inspiron to Macbook Pro seems like a massive improvement in quality. And it is, no doubt the Macbook Pro is a much better built machine. The point of contention is, how do Macbook Pros compare to high-end Windows laptops that are in the same price range? I have never heard of a Thinkpad W Series owner switching to a Macbook Pro 15, for example. And of course, we must also remember that even the best Macbook Pro 17 utterly pales in comparison to truly premium grade machines with 10-bit IPS displays, mobile Quadro GPUs, SSDs in RAID, etc. Or something revolutionary like the Sony Vaio Z which is built of carbon fibre - thinner and lighter than Macbook Air, faster than Macbook Pro and comes with power media dock connected via Thunderbolt which includes an external GPU and boosts battery life to 16 hours. So, in the end, putting price aside, Macbook Pro is good mid-range hardware, but not premium grade. Putting price into the equation - there's no shortage of excellent non-Apple laptops that offer better value for money.
 
Have to agree there. Something like comparing a 15K Android with the iphone, and obviously the iphone comes out way ahead. Phones in the similar price range should be compared.

Having said all that, now I see how easy networking is with Macs. I have had hell to establish a decent network between 3 laptops and a desktop when they were all Win. NOw, they just see each other and file sharing etc is incredibly easy. Never any need to re connect etc, which I always had to do in Win xp.
 
Excellent posts sub, did not understand much, but it sounds like serious hardcore geek stuff!

But for technically retards like me, who do not need much, but a very stable system without any tinkering around, Macs are great.

Sent from Galaxy S2
 
I truly second every line that Sub has spoken! I have personally seen the Thinkpad W series. We had them at work and some of the people who actually work on game development use them. Its a league of its own. I wonder if apple ever made something similar to the Thinkpad W series or Dell precision laptops, although they will never do so, they would charge users a Gazillion Bazillion dollars to use them with the exact marketing lines - if its not a mbp its not an mbp or , user experience in a whole new league or something.
 
sunny27 said:
I truly second every line that Sub has spoken! I have personally seen the Thinkpad W series. We had them at work and some of the people who actually work on game development use them. Its a league of its own. I wonder if apple ever made something similar to the Thinkpad W series or Dell precision laptops, although they will never do so, they would charge users a Gazillion Bazillion dollars to use them with the exact marketing lines - if its not a mbp its not an mbp or , user experience in a whole new league or something.

:rofl:........
 
deepakvrao said:
Have to agree there. Something like comparing a 15K Android with the iphone, and obviously the iphone comes out way ahead. Phones in the similar price range should be compared.

Having said all that, now I see how easy networking is with Macs. I have had hell to establish a decent network between 3 laptops and a desktop when they were all Win. NOw, they just see each other and file sharing etc is incredibly easy. Never any need to re connect etc, which I always had to do in Win xp.

Even though I am a linux geek, I seriously never had the issue that you are talking off, if its on the network, its there.

+LT
 
Sub said:
I was just talking about the OS. The hardware is a different issue. This is another important point - the illusion that Macbooks are better. Almost every Macbook owner I know previously were used to Windows/Linux laptops that cost less than half the price. So moving from Dell Inspiron to Macbook Pro seems like a massive improvement in quality. And it is, no doubt the Macbook Pro is a much better built machine. The point of contention is, how do Macbook Pros compare to high-end Windows laptops that are in the same price range? I have never heard of a Thinkpad W Series owner switching to a Macbook Pro 15, for example. And of course, we must also remember that even the best Macbook Pro 17 utterly pales in comparison to truly premium grade machines with 10-bit IPS displays, mobile Quadro GPUs, SSDs in RAID, etc. Or something revolutionary like the Sony Vaio Z which is built of carbon fibre - thinner and lighter than Macbook Air, faster than Macbook Pro and comes with power media dock connected via Thunderbolt which includes an external GPU and boosts battery life to 16 hours. So, in the end, putting price aside, Macbook Pro is good mid-range hardware, but not premium grade. Putting price into the equation - there's no shortage of excellent non-Apple laptops that offer better value for money.

Yes, I know. The hardware is good, but not excellent. The OS is good for almost all general purpose tasks.

IMO, its the way Apple MBs have some sort of status symbol and coolness, that's what makes people buy them, irrespective of the fact that there might be better laptops in the same price range (and whether they know it or not)

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

deepakvrao said:
Have to agree there. Something like comparing a 15K Android with the iphone, and obviously the iphone comes out way ahead. Phones in the similar price range should be compared.

Having said all that, now I see how easy networking is with Macs. I have had hell to establish a decent network between 3 laptops and a desktop when they were all Win. NOw, they just see each other and file sharing etc is incredibly easy. Never any need to re connect etc, which I always had to do in Win xp.
linuxtechie said:
Even though I am a linux geek, I seriously never had the issue that you are talking off, if its on the network, its there.

+LT

I second that. The only issue I have had is when i used a non working cable. I spent almost 30 minutes trying to fix the problem, then just cut and crimped up a new cable, and problem solved.
 
I am sorry, but that is another big myth. OS X is known for its notoriously insecure networking. There's a reason why a recent survey showed 40% companies explicitly ban employees from bringing Macs into work - they are just a big pain to network with and a massive security risk.

As for smaller networks, I suppose it's not a big problem, but Windows still works better, especially with the HomeGroup feature. Windows 8 has taken it to a whole new level with the Share Charm. And it's still a work in progress...

Feature wise, so far the only things I agree with is that iTunes works better on OS X and Time Machine has a better interface than Shadow Copies (though both are just as effective). Of course History Vault in Windows 8 eliminates that too.
 
linuxtechie said:
Even though I am a linux geek, I seriously never had the issue that you are talking off, if its on the network, its there.

+LT

See, you are a 'geek'. Like Red Dragon said, all this is for the tech retards like us :)
 
sunny27 said:
I truly second every line that Sub has spoken! I have personally seen the Thinkpad W series. We had them at work and some of the people who actually work on game development use them. Its a league of its own. I wonder if apple ever made something similar to the Thinkpad W series or Dell precision laptops, although they will never do so, they would charge users a Gazillion Bazillion dollars to use them with the exact marketing lines - if its not a mbp its not an mbp or , user experience in a whole new league or something.

I agree as well. We recently bought a Thinkpad X220 for the office and it is a brilliant machine. If I ever need to buy a personal laptop, it would be a Thinkpad or a Vaio Z. What I have a little bit of trouble with is how you don't seem to be open to the fact that there are other types of users as well. People who want a balance between battery life and power and ease of use. People who want to treat their laptop as an appliance. And there are definitely a few things Macbooks + Mac OS do better than Win 7 + Thinkpads. (Main things I notice from the time I have used a MBP are the Trackpad+gestures integration and Time Machine.) Writing off all MB buyers as being uninformed at best or being mindless members of a cult is doing them a disservice and a bit condescending.

Oh also, I agree with Sub. The whole Macs are better for designers/creative people stereotype is definitely bullshit. Look at all the forum threads about people facing issues with many commonly used fonts. Also, $150 more for a matte display?
 
whatsinaname said:
you don't seem to be open to the fact that there are other types of users as well. People who want a balance between battery life and power and ease of use. People who want to treat their laptop as an appliance.

You hit the nail on the head there. I don't do much, but I want everything just working, and I did have issues with Windows. Heck, my wife has to reconnect to the wifi every time her laptop comes out of hibernate. She's waiting for her Mac now. I don't know how you guys never have these issues with Windows.
 
^ I am curious about this particular 'reconnect to WiFi' issue of yours. I have been using XP on a laptop for years now and have never encountered this problem - not even once, well not to a working network atleast. It does have issues connecting to networks which are down, but I guess that's beyond the capabilities of any OS out there.
 
deepakvrao said:
You hit the nail on the head there. I don't do much, but I want everything just working, and I did have issues with Windows. Heck, my wife has to reconnect to the wifi every time her laptop comes out of hibernate. She's waiting for her Mac now. I don't know how you guys never have these issues with Windows.

Even I am confused with this. Even on a corporate laptop running XP Pro which did not connect to my home wifi automatically (You need to setup first time only though), it works flawlessly after hibernate. Are you running XP without SP's or SP1 something? :S
 
deepakvrao said:
You hit the nail on the head there. I don't do much, but I want everything just working, and I did have issues with Windows. Heck, my wife has to reconnect to the wifi every time her laptop comes out of hibernate. She's waiting for her Mac now. I don't know how you guys never have these issues with Windows.

Sorry, but I disagree with you there. There are no issues with wifi and Windows 7. (I have been using a PCI WiFi card since Windows 7 beta, running with Vista drivers).

If you are having a few dropped connections, it is a problem with the laptop's hardware. It is hardly fair to label it as Windows fault. If something similar happened with your Macbook, you would just take it to the Apple store, like you would with a watch or a toaster. Why blame Windows for what should have been an RMA with your laptop's hardware manufacturer?
 
^^ weird! My laptop doesn't need to be reconfigured to both my office and home wifi networks every time i resume or everytime i restart my laptop and all my networks are wifi and password protected. I guess you haven't configured your laptop right!

Another thing i guess would be the lack of knowledge mac users have which they use to blame windows/windows based devices because they can't do simple tasks with them. almost every laptop i have used in my life has auto detected a password protected wifi network to which it was already given rights and permissions and passwords after restarting or resuming from sleep/hibernate modes. a failure on this part would be blamed on the faulty drivers or device.

To mac users -- please don't lower yourselves and your reputations here with ridiculous stories of your ineptness and incompetence, blaming windows/windows based devices for not doing something you didn't know how to do and mistakes done by you.
 
whatsinaname said:
Sorry, but I disagree with you there. There are no issues with wifi and Windows 7. (I have been using a PCI WiFi card since Windows 7 beta, running with Vista drivers).

If you are having a few dropped connections, it is a problem with the laptop's hardware. It is hardly fair to label it as Windows fault. If something similar happened with your Macbook, you would just take it to the Apple store, like you would with a watch or a toaster. Why blame Windows for what should have been an RMA with your laptop's hardware manufacturer?

I am pretty sure that its something else, not a hardware fault. Mostly a driver fault.
 
whatsinaname said:
What I have a little bit of trouble with is how you don't seem to be open to the fact that there are other types of users as well. People who want a balance between battery life and power and ease of use. People who want to treat their laptop as an appliance. And there are definitely a few things Macbooks + Mac OS do better than Win 7 + Thinkpads. (Main things I notice from the time I have used a MBP are the Trackpad+gestures integration and Time Machine.) Writing off all MB buyers as being uninformed at best or being mindless members of a cult is doing them a disservice and a bit condescending.

Oh also, I agree with Sub. The whole Macs are better for designers/creative people stereotype is definitely bullshit. Look at all the forum threads about people facing issues with many commonly used fonts. Also, $150 more for a matte display?
I agree, there is a range of usage (narrow but popular) that OS X does just as well, if not better. However, I also think Windows 7 can do most of these tasks as well, and Windows 8 will do them a whole lot better. As for your main things - Windows 7 does gestures just as well (and high-end Windows laptop feature exactly the same Synaptics trackpad as Macbooks), and with proper drivers and third party apps even better, and shadow copies does the exact same thing as time machine albeit without a fancy GUI (that comes with Windows 8 and History Vault). So once again, it seems almost everything good about Macs is shrouded in layers of myths and reality distortion.
 
I think that hibernate issue -- with the wireless LAN going off is a power setting. It can be easily enabled to always remain in acquisition mode.
 
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