Is Chivalry Dead?

Funny...at the restaurant today I saw, what appeared to be the woman holding the door for the man. Actually she was walking in front of the man; entered first...and held on to the door so he doesn't bump into it. But it still looked like she was holding the door for him.

So I took the cue and held the door for my lady friend and told her that chivalry is being hotly debated at TE. And, that I'd need her word for my act of chivalry :p ... I footed the bill btw, but Neivedyam is pretty reasonable :D

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Funny...at the restaurant today I saw, what appeared to be the woman holding the door for the man. Actually she was walking in front of the man; entered first...and held on to the door so he doesn't bump into it. But it still looked like she was holding the door for him.

So I took the cue and held the door for my lady friend and told her that chivalry is being hotly debated at TE. And, that I'd need her word for my act of chivalry :p ... I footed the bill btw, but Neivedyam is pretty reasonable :D
 
Its very subjective, some women are fiercely independent, and dont like others paying bills for them, while some other expect you to pay the bill.

The second types should generally ring an alarm in your head, not cause money matters, but cause, unless you are a couple, it means the woman could be using you.

Now if you want to get used just to get some female company, then its a totally different game. :p

As for pulling chairs and all, it really depends. If there's someone sitting beside me, i'l pull it out for her, but I wont go to the other side, pull it out for her and then go back. Similar with opening doors. Yes, like darthcoder said, holding it for the one coming behind you is basic courtesy!
 
well. i always open doors for women and let them go in first (what happens afer that is ...*censored* :D )
and i still believe in doing acts of chivalry.
 
the bill footing etiquette is something i've still not figured out, especially when it comes to acquaintances/semi-formal meetings etc.
 
if you thought chivalrous activities were stepping down , then you are doing too much thinking
When you give up a seat in a bus, or let someone go first, you are treating them with more importance than yourself. Not that it's bad. You do that for your parents, elders etc.
But you can't deny it's not an act of humility.
 
giving up seats , personally i used to do that for elders , kids , women ., never thought it as chivalry , just a decent thing to do , never had any expectations , its just a thing , you did it and now move on
 
TBH, I have stopped being nice and courteous to people in India. Not that I am mean and offensive. But I have noticed, a lot of Indian's do not even care two sh*** even if some yields or gives way, or lets someone pass. They just give a huff and assume that is the other persons job/duty to do this, and their entitlement to receive this. There is never any acknowledgement, and most of the time, being nice to strangers -resultant- one getting screwed themselves, or being left 'behind'.

I used to:

1. Always let others pass in lifts (office hours).
2. Make way for people walking past.
3. If passing a door then open / help others come through.
4. Give a light to someone at a ciggie store / panwaala if lighting up.
5. Get up in buses / trains.
6. Say thank you to shop keepers after transaction is done. (Or rifle my wallet / pockets for change / smaller currency denominations).
7. Greet customer service people at vendor stores and again say thanks.
8. Courteous to sales people at the PVRs and DT cinemas. (These are the biggest MoFos; I think that).
9. Appreciative of lower class people coming to my house to collect garbage and/or work on payment.
10. Thanking sales personnel in malls or marts.

Basically, I was raised to be respectful and mindful of others privacy. Now I care nothing less, cause it is a waste of time. Probably with 1.2B+ Indians, things get tight and pissing off, so everyone has become what they are. Our society is going down-hill and no one cares for anyone. All are on their own trip. So am I.

:)
 
you can change people whom you get in contact with , there was an old woman in my township and she had most angry face that you would ever see , but i persisted with my hellos and byes to her everyday that i saw her , eventually after 1.5 years she smiled and waved :D

you dont have to lower your levels to join the group , be defiant and stay the same, doesnt hurt
 
I feel the same way man. Coming from a small town and then working in a big city (Pune), I came to know first-hand how urban India lives and deals with fellow Indians. Rude, obnoxious and taking everything and everyone for granted. After living abroad since past few years, I am scared to go back and deal with the city life back home.
 
I think she is confused. Chivalry is not the same thing as manners. A good mannered person would be good mannered to both men and women alike. Chivalry on the other hand is a crude medieval practice of asserting male dominance and making women feel that they are different from men and incapable of even the most trivial things. At its core, its just male ego masked as etiquette. Chivalry does not and cannot go hand in hand with gender equality.

Maybe reminding a friend for some thing as trivial as the cost of an Ice Cream is not such a good thing (regardless of the gender), but he may be doing it is only because he is seeing her as a peer and not treat her differently just because she is a girl. I don't think treating women same as men is a bad thing.
 
First of all TOI is crap.
Second, I do not know where they get there info from, but guys still are very well mannered in front of female friends, acquaintances and strangers.
My circle is pretty big, and all guys are the same in that respect.

Honestly, I see more ill-mannered people then just mannered people these days. I am not a cynic, but from an observational point of view. India is getting ruder day by day. Be it to women or men or strangers.
 
TBH, I have stopped being nice and courteous to people in India. Not that I am mean and offensive. But I have noticed, a lot of Indian's do not even care ......
....

Basically, I was raised to be respectful and mindful of others privacy. Now I care nothing less, cause it is a waste of time. Probably with 1.2B+ Indians, things get tight and pissing off, so everyone has become what they are. Our society is going down-hill and no one cares for anyone. All are on their own trip. So am I.

:)


Well Anil bhai, the whole point is, we certainly can expect the newer generation to be bit more well mannered. Atleast the hope should never be given up. If people stop being nice, nobody will get an experience.

Govt itself is shallow else they would have started advertisements and other practices like imposing fines on basic things rather than behave like pack of monkeys concerned with how long they can latch onto a branch.

Every single day i think i am going senile as i am loosing patience day by day when i see people spitting or giving the ultra desi gaaliyan like mc, bc in front of ladies. Yesterday itself i was arguing with a person who was standing incorrectly in a queue and the rest followed like rats behind a pied piper. When i asked him to stand properly, he just said no need, no need. Upon pressing he said i would want to sit over here (dont ask the explanation, i was as clueless as anybody reading this will be). When i indicated u got a loose screw with a smirk, he repeated the exact thing back to me.

Visit the metro and you def will be able to find out people leaning against the door with one foot on the wall/door. Swear to God that time is most difficult to contain yourself.. But the moment you tell them in a firm but polite manner, they remove the foot instantly. So, unless two three more people tell such idiots, they ll never get the idea they are or might be wrong. My own extended family members keep harping on how the ladies reserved seats shd be withdrawn from the normal coach as they got their own coaches now. I simply disagree, doesnt matters if they feel a bit bad. Cant compromise on value which build and define your character.

So i solemnly urge u to be the goodie fella and carry on with your well mannered best. And kick the smoking habit asap.
 
TBH, I have stopped being nice and courteous to people in India. Not that I am mean and offensive. But I have noticed, a lot of Indian's do not even care two sh*** even if some yields or gives way, or lets someone pass. They just give a huff and assume that is the other persons job/duty to do this, and their entitlement to receive this. There is never any acknowledgement, and most of the time, being nice to strangers -resultant- one getting screwed themselves, or being left 'behind'.

I used to:

1. Always let others pass in lifts (office hours).
2. Make way for people walking past.
3. If passing a door then open / help others come through.
4. Give a light to someone at a ciggie store / panwaala if lighting up.
5. Get up in buses / trains.
6. Say thank you to shop keepers after transaction is done. (Or rifle my wallet / pockets for change / smaller currency denominations).
7. Greet customer service people at vendor stores and again say thanks.
8. Courteous to sales people at the PVRs and DT cinemas. (These are the biggest MoFos; I think that).
9. Appreciative of lower class people coming to my house to collect garbage and/or work on payment.
10. Thanking sales personnel in malls or marts.

Basically, I was raised to be respectful and mindful of others privacy. Now I care nothing less, cause it is a waste of time. Probably with 1.2B+ Indians, things get tight and pissing off, so everyone has become what they are. Our society is going down-hill and no one cares for anyone. All are on their own trip. So am I.

:)

Very well said!! You have touched almost all the bases.
Offtopic: I read that TOI article first before seeing this thread here in TE :).

Now on the topic, See i'm always chivalrous to ladies(women if you call them) around me, but not to the extent of going around and pulling a chair. I feel that with people you interact with daily basis,being chivalrous doesn't mean to always open the door, always let ladies go first, it's an act to make a person(irrespective of ladies) feel good. Just doing it couple of times is enough to show others that you respect them.

Coming to the part of being chivalrous to strangers like in train and buses. I always use to do it for ladies and elders and I do it now too but I tend to cut a little slack these days. Why? because of the daily experiences that's why,
Firstly no one cares if you are giving your place to them or trying to avoid physical contact(in case of ladies).
Secondly, some personal bad experiences, like once in a bus, I left my seat for a girl. I was tired after a day's work but still choose to do it. But what the lady did, she gave that place to her male friend standing beside her and gave her bag to him for keeping.Then and there I felt like an A** for my gentleman act. :annoyed:
Another time in Delhi metro I gave my place to an auntyji travelling with her sons(possibly), after taking the seat she looked at me with those "you pervert" eyes and continued talking to her boys. :(

Now the last part, money! It's OK to pay for when you're going for a quick bite or coffee but for a full fledged buffet, sorry have to go dutch. See my lady friends are financially capable of paying for themselves so why not split the bill.Of course it depends on the situation mostly. Hell at times they pay for me and I do the same when we go out next time.
Lessons learnt in money matters:
It's good to be chivalrous but let your friend know that MAYBE she need to shell out money, that way she won't be taken aback when the bill arrives :). Moreover, she will contribute after 2-3 outings. Just make sure you're reasonable and not shameful you know, the scenario should not unfold by you asking "ek do sau ka note dena zara" :D

Another most important thing, never be shy regarding money with ladies, see I use to ride a bike to office and bike-pool(if there is a word) a girl in my office with me.
I use to fill for 2000 monthly for 10 months but due to chivalry(you know being a gentleman and all) never once asked her to contri. Now what did I gain from this, nothing, agree I did not lose anything apart from my friends calling me a wuss, point in case I should have asked her at least once but then I thought if she was considerate then she would have paid, why ask and mix your izzat with baigan.

Thanks for being patient with this long post!!
 
Firstly no one cares if you are giving your place to them or trying to avoid physical contact(in case of ladies).
Secondly, some personal bad experiences, like once in a bus, I left my seat for a girl. I was tired after a day's work but still choose to do it. But what the lady did, she gave that place to her male friend standing beside her and gave her bag to him for keeping.Then and there I felt like an A** for my gentleman act. :annoyed:
Another time in Delhi metro I gave my place to an auntyji travelling with her sons(possibly), after taking the seat she looked at me with those "you pervert" eyes and continued talking to her boys. :(
Many of these incidents happened to me as i am using Metro regularly for past 5 years(3 years in college & 2 years in job).
So I am not going to explain all of them.
Now I Just put on headphones & pretend to sleep while I am sitting in metro.
When someone intentionally ask for a seat or give atleast some space for seat, i just say them to adjust with me(if its non-reserved seat) else I just simply vacate the seats.
 
Went for Avengers movie yesterday. Typical Indian Experience:

I sat in an audi which had no isle. So a small hall it was. Was sitting 4th row from front and only consolation was that prolly the seats will be empty around me. Then came the bozos, the late comers.
A couple of guys entered, one of them looking like Jr Hulk, brown colored.. and his pal wore a kurta with a 'gamcha'. Worst fears came out to be true when the gamcha guy didnt had any knowledge about the superheroes and was english challenged. Okay.. some murmurs will be there i thought.
But the brown hulk had already seen the movie and was there to be his translator and alert sounding guy: 'Ye scene dekhna' 'Ye wala mast hai' I was like okay.. this is getting bad. The row had surprisingly got filled up too.
Then the people sitting on the other side, again a set of 2 frnds.. 'Jay kaun si model hai' , 'Wo hara wala marega?'

I thought okay.. 60 bucks will get u such people. Then the brown hulk gets up, returns with 3 cans or red bull. Gulps down 2 and then starts burping. After a few mins, he pulls out his blackberry n starts texting.
All this happened during the boring first few mins so i got lucky.. as i got up during the stark vs cap'n america, and moved myself to the empty 2nd row from the front. Saw the rest of the movie in peace.

Jammers might not be an option, but why dont we have seats with buttons to call up the stewards?
 
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