Is USA on the edge of an economic crisis?

[m-jeri]

I want obamacare to stay on also.

 

[Hacker]

Because it forces people to pay extra for health care. They basically are forced to subsidise others. Its going towards the euro model. Socialised health care is very expensive, you might say unsustainable.

European and Scandinavian countries which have socialized health care seem to be doing fine.

Can you give some source for your claims that socialized health care is expensive. Do you know that US spends more on healthcare than other developed countries.


Among advanced economies, the U.S. spends the most on health care on a relative cost basis with the worst outcome
http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries

So stop posting false information.

 

[blr_p]

European and Scandinavian countries which have socialized health care seem to be doing fine.

They also have extortionate taxes.

Can you give some source for your claims that socialized health care is expensive. Do you know that US spends more on healthcare than other developed countries.

I used to live there. My cousin is a cardiac specialist. To talk to her for 5 minutes costs $250. $125 is to cover her in case of malpractice lawsuit. So her expertise costs Rs.7500. In my city it would cost max Rs.1000. You mean to tell me she is giving 7 times more value ?

Among advanced economies, the U.S. spends the most on health care on a relative cost basis with the worst outcome
http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries

So stop posting false information.

What exactly did you find false in my post ?

Healthcare is waay too expensive in the US. Obamacare makes it yet more expensive because even if you have your own plan, you are forced to pay for it regardless. This was the edge the US had over Europe now its sunk to their level.

Just like in the UK, where people opt for private just to jump queues. They are paying extra.

 

[mrnikhilsudo]

Can someone direct me to some paper in Obama care.

 

[Hacker]

They also have extortionate taxes.

which pays for the service.

In 2013 The Economist declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world.

http://www.economist.com/news/speci...are-probably-best-governed-world-secret-their

What exactly did you find false in my post ?

That Socialised health care is very expensive

Healthcare is waay too expensive in the US.

Wait first you say socialized heathcare is expensive, now you are saying US is too expensive. Can you atleast give a definite answer.

 

[blr_p]

Can someone direct me to some paper in Obama care.

Its a very contentious partisan issue. Save your time.

Obamacare is not going to make the system more efficient which is what needs to be done. Maybe it cannot be done. The system is so far gone and corrupt between insurance, pharmaceuticals & politicos. Keep the money flowing or better still introduce yet more money into the game. So obamacare adds yet one more layer to this mess because it throws more money at the problem. Well that money will be gobbled faster than you can blink your eye. So the real point is what incentive is there to improve the situation ? none whatsoever, in fact with more money mandated by govt the problem will get more ossified.

When i compare what we have in India compared to the US or europe i think its better. Socialised health care is never going to happen here any time soon because we cannot afford it. What with only 5% of the population liable for income taxes

 

[blr_p]

which pays for the service.

In 2013 The Economist declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world.

http://www.economist.com/news/speci...are-probably-best-governed-world-secret-their

Nordic ideas don't scale up to the rest of the world. Nordic ideas are for countries that are underpopulated with abundant resources.

That Socialised health care is very expensive

It is and its not very efficient. Oh its very people friendly for those that cannot afford health care. This is the euro ideology, nobody must be without health care. The germans pioneered it in the late ninteenth century. It's too expensive today and going to be unsustainable tomorrow.

Wait first you say socialized heathcare is expensive, now you are saying US is too expensive. Can you atleast give a definite answer.

No contradiction, the US system isn't efficient, Adding these leftwing ideas is going to screw it up even more. Quite simple.

They are not addressing the problem, they are compounding it. Quite sad.

 

[onlyravi]

which pays for the service.
In 2013 The Economist declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world.

Best governed is not equal to cheap healthcare. The tax rate in such countries is above 35%. And they are not VAT free. so life is not cheap and neither is healthcare. But tax money goes towards many other facilities so this point is totally vague to debate on. Only a proper break up of amount spent by these countries towards their healthcare would make proper sense.

That Socialised health care is very expensive

Its damn expensive. and non sustainable. Even in UK where you have NHS its not that you can just walk to any specialist. Its a whole mess. Like you first need to go to some primary clinics. They treat you and if after that they believe that you should be refereed to some higher specialist only and ONLY then you can visit specialist doctors. People are frustrated with the waiting periods to get appointments and this hierarchy is not going down so well.

Wait first you say socialized heathcare is expensive, now you are saying US is too expensive. Can you atleast give a definite answer.

In US its VERY VERY expensive only coz it was made like this in the last few decades. Insurance companies were the drivers behind this. Working for a core health care product I can speak for this.
What ObamaCare does is make insurance mandatory. Its reasonable now but later they will increase the price. And Insurance companies pay the hospitals from their earnings. How is the US govt going to pay the medical bills of the insured people????? They dont have too much cash to play with. There are grant provided hospitals in US like we have grant receiving schools and colleges. The Govt will mess up the entire healthcare scenario in US.

If instead some how US Govt would have found out a way to make the existing healthcare system more affordable to the public would have made the best sense. But actually now I am feeling stupid discussing so much about US healthcare when I am staying in India. But yes it does affect my job so thats one very prominent reason I dont like it and no figures or data needed to support this one ....[DOUBLEPOST=1380788754][/DOUBLEPOST]

They are not addressing the problem, they are compounding it. Quite sad.

EXACTLY....

 

[Hacker]

facilities so this point is totally vague to debate on. Only a proper break up of amount spent by these countries towards their healthcare would make proper sense.

Check the healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita column in the bloomberg link which I posted above. Which country has the highest cost?

Its damn expensive. and non sustainable. Even in UK where you have NHS its not that you can just walk to any specialist. Its a whole mess. Like you first need to go to some primary clinics. They treat you and if after that they believe that you should be refereed to some higher specialist only and ONLY then you can visit specialist doctors. People are frustrated with the waiting periods to get appointments and this hierarchy is not going down so well.

We are talking about healthcare expenses which a country incurs not the medical process of a particular country.

Nordic ideas don't scale up to the rest of the world. Nordic ideas are for countries that are underpopulated with abundant resources.

You are trying to cherry pick. I gave the nordic countries just as an example. Coming back to the main topic. Which country has the highest healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita, is it capitalist US or a country with socialized healthcare?

No contradiction

Which country has the highest healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita, is it capitalist US or a country with socialized healthcare?


All right people this is getting boring now. blr_p's point was that socialized healthcare is very expensive, the bloomberg link which I posted disagrees.

Can we stop this little debate here, since the topic we are discussing does not directly affect us.

 

[blr_p]

You are trying to cherry pick. I gave the nordic countries just as an example. Coming back to the main topic. Which country has the highest healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita, is it capitalist US or a country with socialized healthcare?

No i'm not, you clearly misunderstood my point.

Which country has the highest healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita, is it capitalist US or a country with socialized healthcare?

Where did i say the US was more efficient. I'm saying it ought to be. And we just put that off for who knows how long as a result of obamacare.

All right people this is getting boring now. blr_p's point was that socialized healthcare is very expensive, the bloomberg link which I posted disagrees.

If govt says we will do this and you have to pay for it then money is assured. Why bother to get more efficient ? THINK!

Socialised heath care is not about efficiency, its about universal coverage. Its an ideology. Health care does not come for free, some body has to pay for it. Who ? This is redistribution in yet another form.

Do i give a damn if the guy down the street cannot afford health care. No, not at all. Do i care that my health care costs went up for no tangible improvement to me whatsoever, definitely.

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Health care does not come for free, some body has to pay for it. Who ? This is redistribution in yet another form.

Stephen Colbert : "Obamacare needs the premiums of healthier people to cover the costs of sicker people. Its a devious con that can only be described as.. Insurance"


Quick call the newspapers. Auto Insurance in India is unsustainable what with the way people in India drive, and blr_p is not paying for you misfit drivers who can't drift

 

[blr_p]

Quick call the newspapers. Auto Insurance in India is unsustainable what with the way people in India drive, and blr_p is not paying for you misfit drivers who can't drift

No such problem back in the good old days where health insurance was just like car insurance. Govt did not say you have to pay them for auto insurance first. You have to have insurance, just pick one.

Whereas here its a double cost if you want better quality service.There is no opt out for obamacare. Its the law, you pay or suffer the consequences.

This increases costs for everybody that pays across the board. Somebody is making out well on the other end.

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

There is no opt out for obamacare. Its the law, you pay or suffer the consequences.

Myth 1: Everyone needs to buy coverage through state and federally-run exchanges.
..the majority of people will continue to receive coverage through their employers or via government programs like Medicare.
“The only people buying on these exchanges are those who are uninsured now and will have to buy individual plans for themselves,”

The fines are only for uninsured people.

Govt did not say you have to pay them for auto insurance first. You have to have insurance, just pick one.

Myth 3: The government supplies insurance. While state and federally-run exchanges will be operated by the government, the actual insurance plans are being provided by individual insurance companies

Source : www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2013/10/01/debunking-obamacare-biggest-myths/

 

[blr_p]

Does my existing insurance cover go up as a result of obamacare ?

What benefits do i get for the extra cost ?

 

[raj_pol]

This is an incredibe article from the NY times. US healthcare is unusually expensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/h...-health-expenditures.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/h...th-costliest-in-the-world.html?pagewanted=all

I am in love with the way the nordic countries, canada etc.. function. The US system seems to be the most hopeless and we in India somehow tend to follow the same system.

 

[Sei]

You know @blr_p, your reasoning sounds good on paper but of the many experiences I have read about people in the EU countries, I would be glad to pay a higher level of taxes to not worry about a small mishap tomorrow which might bring me and my family on the road. An instance I read on Reddit from a guy in Germany- "My dad had heart surgery and was in the hospital for 5 days. The total money he had to pay - 40 Euros, which was cost of the miscellaneous food items ordered in the hospital".

It's easy to say why you should pay for others but considering the scenario above, I think it's worth it.

 

[sharktale1212]

Umm, wasnt the topic supposed to be if USA was on the edge? Now we are debating an unrelated health law which has no consequences on our country.
Can mods edit the title to Is USA on edge due to Obamacare?

 

[blr_p]

You know @blr_p, your reasoning sounds good on paper but of the many experiences I have read about people in the EU countries, I would be glad to pay a higher level of taxes to not worry about a small mishap tomorrow which might bring me and my family on the road. An instance I read on Reddit from a guy in Germany- "My dad had heart surgery and was in the hospital for 5 days. The total money he had to pay - 40 Euros, which was cost of the miscellaneous food items ordered in the hospital".

So before this obamacare nonsense, if you worked at a company, they gave you a choice of HMO's with plans for various coverage. You picked the level of cover you wanted for your family and that was it. So any mishaps would be covered. NOW , you do that PLUS pay extra for no benefit to you or your family. It's the law you see.

It's easy to say why you should pay for others but considering the scenario above, I think it's worth it.

If you're married and your wife works, either parties coverage will take care of problems. If both are out of work then things are tricky. But this is the exception. Most of the time you're covered.[DOUBLEPOST=1380905327][/DOUBLEPOST]

Umm, wasnt the topic supposed to be if USA was on the edge? Now we are debating an unrelated health law which has no consequences on our country.
Can mods edit the title to Is USA on edge due to Obamacare?

Nothing to talk about until Oct 17 which is when a decision needs to get made.

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

So before this obamacare nonsense, if you worked at a company, they gave you a choice of HMO's with plans for various coverage. You picked the level of cover you wanted for your family and that was it. So any mishaps would be covered. NOW , you do that PLUS pay extra for no benefit to you or your family. It's the law you see.

Can you tell us your premiums before and after obamacare?

 

[blkrb0t]

Off-topic? Somewhere I read that Breaking Bad is a 6-year-long advertisement explaining the pathetic healthcare situation in the US.