Is USA on the edge of an economic crisis?
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Hacker
Skilled
European and Scandinavian countries which have socialized health care seem to be doing fine.
Can you give some source for your claims that socialized health care is expensive. Do you know that US spends more on healthcare than other developed countries.
Among advanced economies, the U.S. spends the most on health care on a relative cost basis with the worst outcome
http://www.bloomberg.com/visual-data/best-and-worst/most-efficient-health-care-countries
So stop posting false information.
blr_p
Skilled
They also have extortionate taxes.
I used to live there. My cousin is a cardiac specialist. To talk to her for 5 minutes costs $250. $125 is to cover her in case of malpractice lawsuit. So her expertise costs Rs.7500. In my city it would cost max Rs.1000. You mean to tell me she is giving 7 times more value ?
What exactly did you find false in my post ?
Healthcare is waay too expensive in the US. Obamacare makes it yet more expensive because even if you have your own plan, you are forced to pay for it regardless. This was the edge the US had over Europe now its sunk to their level.
Just like in the UK, where people opt for private just to jump queues. They are paying extra.
mrnikhilsudo
Disciple
Can someone direct me to some paper in Obama care.
Hacker
Skilled
which pays for the service.
In 2013 The Economist declared that the Nordic countries "are probably the best-governed in the world.
http://www.economist.com/news/speci...are-probably-best-governed-world-secret-their
That Socialised health care is very expensive
Wait first you say socialized heathcare is expensive, now you are saying US is too expensive. Can you atleast give a definite answer.
blr_p
Skilled
Its a very contentious partisan issue. Save your time.
Obamacare is not going to make the system more efficient which is what needs to be done. Maybe it cannot be done. The system is so far gone and corrupt between insurance, pharmaceuticals & politicos. Keep the money flowing or better still introduce yet more money into the game. So obamacare adds yet one more layer to this mess because it throws more money at the problem. Well that money will be gobbled faster than you can blink your eye. So the real point is what incentive is there to improve the situation ? none whatsoever, in fact with more money mandated by govt the problem will get more ossified.
When i compare what we have in India compared to the US or europe i think its better. Socialised health care is never going to happen here any time soon because we cannot afford it. What with only 5% of the population liable for income taxes
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blr_p
Skilled
Nordic ideas don't scale up to the rest of the world. Nordic ideas are for countries that are underpopulated with abundant resources.
It is and its not very efficient. Oh its very people friendly for those that cannot afford health care. This is the euro ideology, nobody must be without health care. The germans pioneered it in the late ninteenth century. It's too expensive today and going to be unsustainable tomorrow.
No contradiction, the US system isn't efficient, Adding these leftwing ideas is going to screw it up even more. Quite simple.
They are not addressing the problem, they are compounding it. Quite sad.
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Best governed is not equal to cheap healthcare. The tax rate in such countries is above 35%. And they are not VAT free. so life is not cheap and neither is healthcare. But tax money goes towards many other facilities so this point is totally vague to debate on. Only a proper break up of amount spent by these countries towards their healthcare would make proper sense.
Its damn expensive. and non sustainable. Even in UK where you have NHS its not that you can just walk to any specialist. Its a whole mess. Like you first need to go to some primary clinics. They treat you and if after that they believe that you should be refereed to some higher specialist only and ONLY then you can visit specialist doctors. People are frustrated with the waiting periods to get appointments and this hierarchy is not going down so well.
In US its VERY VERY expensive only coz it was made like this in the last few decades. Insurance companies were the drivers behind this. Working for a core health care product I can speak for this.
What ObamaCare does is make insurance mandatory. Its reasonable now but later they will increase the price. And Insurance companies pay the hospitals from their earnings. How is the US govt going to pay the medical bills of the insured people????? They dont have too much cash to play with. There are grant provided hospitals in US like we have grant receiving schools and colleges. The Govt will mess up the entire healthcare scenario in US.
If instead some how US Govt would have found out a way to make the existing healthcare system more affordable to the public would have made the best sense. But actually now I am feeling stupid discussing so much about US healthcare when I am staying in India. But yes it does affect my job so thats one very prominent reason I dont like it
and no figures or data needed to support this one ....[DOUBLEPOST=1380788754][/DOUBLEPOST]
EXACTLY....
Hacker
Skilled
Check the healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita column in the bloomberg link which I posted above. Which country has the highest cost?
We are talking about healthcare expenses which a country incurs not the medical process of a particular country.
You are trying to cherry pick. I gave the nordic countries just as an example. Coming back to the main topic. Which country has the highest healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita, is it capitalist US or a country with socialized healthcare?
Which country has the highest healthcare cost as a percentage of GDP per capita, is it capitalist US or a country with socialized healthcare?
All right people this is getting boring now. blr_p's point was that socialized healthcare is very expensive, the bloomberg link which I posted disagrees.
Can we stop this little debate here, since the topic we are discussing does not directly affect us.
blr_p
Skilled
No i'm not, you clearly misunderstood my point.
Where did i say the US was more efficient. I'm saying it ought to be. And we just put that off for who knows how long as a result of obamacare.
If govt says we will do this and you have to pay for it then money is assured. Why bother to get more efficient ? THINK!
Socialised heath care is not about efficiency, its about universal coverage. Its an ideology. Health care does not come for free, some body has to pay for it. Who ? This is redistribution in yet another form.
Do i give a damn if the guy down the street cannot afford health care. No, not at all. Do i care that my health care costs went up for no tangible improvement to me whatsoever, definitely.
Stephen Colbert : "Obamacare needs the premiums of healthier people to cover the costs of sicker people. Its a devious con that can only be described as.. Insurance"
Quick call the newspapers. Auto Insurance in India is unsustainable what with the way people in India drive, and blr_p is not paying for you misfit drivers who can't drift
blr_p
Skilled
No such problem back in the good old days where health insurance was just like car insurance. Govt did not say you have to pay them for auto insurance first. You have to have insurance, just pick one.Quick call the newspapers. Auto Insurance in India is unsustainable what with the way people in India drive, and blr_p is not paying for you misfit drivers who can't drift
Whereas here its a double cost if you want better quality service.There is no opt out for obamacare. Its the law, you pay or suffer the consequences.
This increases costs for everybody that pays across the board. Somebody is making out well on the other end.
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The fines are only for uninsured people.
blr_p said:
Source : www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2013/10/01/debunking-obamacare-biggest-myths/
This is an incredibe article from the NY times. US healthcare is unusually expensive.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/h...-health-expenditures.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/h...th-costliest-in-the-world.html?pagewanted=all
I am in love with the way the nordic countries, canada etc.. function. The US system seems to be the most hopeless and we in India somehow tend to follow the same system.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/02/h...-health-expenditures.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/h...th-costliest-in-the-world.html?pagewanted=all
I am in love with the way the nordic countries, canada etc.. function. The US system seems to be the most hopeless and we in India somehow tend to follow the same system.
You know @blr_p, your reasoning sounds good on paper but of the many experiences I have read about people in the EU countries, I would be glad to pay a higher level of taxes to not worry about a small mishap tomorrow which might bring me and my family on the road. An instance I read on Reddit from a guy in Germany- "My dad had heart surgery and was in the hospital for 5 days. The total money he had to pay - 40 Euros, which was cost of the miscellaneous food items ordered in the hospital".
It's easy to say why you should pay for others but considering the scenario above, I think it's worth it.
It's easy to say why you should pay for others but considering the scenario above, I think it's worth it.
sharktale1212
Skilled
Umm, wasnt the topic supposed to be if USA was on the edge? Now we are debating an unrelated health law which has no consequences on our country.
Can mods edit the title to Is USA on edge due to Obamacare?
Can mods edit the title to Is USA on edge due to Obamacare?
blr_p
Skilled
So before this obamacare nonsense, if you worked at a company, they gave you a choice of HMO's with plans for various coverage. You picked the level of cover you wanted for your family and that was it. So any mishaps would be covered. NOW , you do that PLUS pay extra for no benefit to you or your family. It's the law you see.
If you're married and your wife works, either parties coverage will take care of problems. If both are out of work then things are tricky. But this is the exception. Most of the time you're covered.[DOUBLEPOST=1380905327][/DOUBLEPOST]
Nothing to talk about until Oct 17 which is when a decision needs to get made.
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Can you tell us your premiums before and after obamacare?
