Modi Wins again!

blr_p said:
i didn't say they were unfair, and also not sure how one would measure fairness actually

Any ideas :)

if you read a page back, i used the same line you just did about democracy, but not as confident as you are on fairness
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sorry have skipped quite a bit of the thread, the first posts few enough to make me speak out .

most people have little idea of "fair elections" yet will choose to espouse about democracy being murdered - and even fewer people have any idea what "secularism' means - and yet will speak volumes on it -

Fair elections - two main components go into making an election free and fair
1) Unhindered opportunity for anyone to run for the post (stand for election)
2) unhindered opportunity for the electorate to vote for who ever they want to vote for.

This is the minimum requirement for elections to be fair and a democracy to exist.

Someone mentioned Malaysia earlier - maybe people should check if (1) is true in many "democracies"
 
I am afraid your definition of democracy leaves me cold. You have part of it down, but not all of it. What you state are just the preconditions for it. Elections are not the only thing in a democracy, though they are by far the most direct necessity for a democracy.

Democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read the definitions mentioned. You'll find what I said. Free and fair elections are certainly necessity, but there is much more. Note that I did not state that the election of Modi meant that democracy was dead. I said that no matter whether he had come in or Congress dudes, democracy was still screwed. Why?

Well, there are problems with the rule of law in Gujarat (note the mad Modi supporters who go and riot whenever people try to play a movie they don't like) and thereby infringe on civil liberties. Note that India provides freedom of speech - and those people are abrogating it.

If you look at the Congress, they don't really believe in pluralism (Hindus have no rights according to them), equality (certain sections have more rights on the budget according to them), nor is their commitment to free and fair elections a given (note that when Jitendra Prasad stood against Sonia Gandhi for the post of Congress President, there were many in the party who demanded he be expelled just for that!).

The BSP didn't get anything in Gujarat - I think that is the biggest (and possibly only) real win for democracy.
 
I don't quite get what you are saying democracy dead or not dead - but leaving that aside

Freedom of speech and movies and such - Does India really advocate it ? Da Vinci Code - banned from India - why? Christian sentiments are hurt - when just about every Christian majority country in the world was running it. There are are other examples too, but a lil late in the night to go on about them.

Coming to the parts about thrashing movie halls and such - TOTALLY UNCOOL - but its happening everywhere, maybe its a product of the "secularism" that many keep pushing, but the people seem to be OK with it - or weighing it as the lesser evil compared to other problems.

I for one am advocate of open speech - you don't like what is being said, protest etc etc. BUT you cannot take the law into your hands - and resort to Vandalism.

This happens all over the country except Modi is singled out.

Does anyone remember the big tree falling and earth shaking ? who said it ?

And coming back to Democracy - what is your idea of it ? you said I got some of it, what did I miss out ?
 
^^ My points exactly!!! I agree that Modi should not be singled out, that every political party is guilty. That is why I said democracy is dead either way.

When I said you missed out, I said that your definition of free and fair elections was correct (and crucial) but there was a lot more to democracy than just that. We have free and fair elections. We just don't have leaders worth a damn. I admit, we have no one to blame but ourselves (also a redeeming feature of democracy - you can't blame anyone but yourself for the state of the nation).
 
Well, you have to be in Gujarat to what it means when Modi wins.

He can be Authoritative, He can be autocratic, but right now India needs strong, bitter, decisive politicians to make the growth engine run.

Growth cant be achieved by running pillar to pillar and asking every one are you happy?

When there is progress its not possible in country like India to make it universall because of sheer size of the population. So there is bound to be some dissatisfaction.

What happened in Godhra was wrong, and what happened after it is also bad. But any one participating in discussion has checked the history of COngress in Gujarat?

Congress and Gujarat have long been associated with communal riots, curfew, tension. I used to live in Ahmedabad from 1990 to 2001. I witnessed its phenomenal growth and change from highly communal tension filled city to hot and happening, metro. this was possible only after congress was booted.

Every time whenever riots happend it was majority religious people which suffered, Godhra was the only incident when minorities suffered more.

There is not a single government which have allowed or forced to move riot affected cases to other state (like it happened in Gujarats case) still government of gujarat is fighting those cases whole heartedly.

It has been accused that Genocide happend in Gujarat (700 and more muslims were killed while 200 and more hindus were killed).

If i were right there cant be genocide if the oppossing parties both loose lives, correct me if i am wrong.

What happened in Delhi was even more deafening more than 900 shikhs killed while only 1 hindu was killed that to while saving lives of a sikh family. No one is talking genocide there. No one is talking to shift cases from there. no one is talking Communalism there.

So every one in India is having Double speak, and keep changing definitions to suite themselves.

I dont want to hurt anyones sentiment. But i cant tolerate just simple plain hatred towards Gujarat.
 
medpal said:
Congress and Gujarat have long been associated with communal riots, curfew, tension. I used to live in Ahmedabad from 1990 to 2001. I witnessed its phenomenal growth and change from highly communal tension filled city to hot and happening, metro. this was possible only after congress was booted.
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If this is true then i can understand why ppl want Modi to continue longer. Rarely is one man responsible, a lot of factors come into play all at the same time if you consider the country was liberalised in 1991(!). This more than anything improved everything nationwide in one fell swoop. (if not in the rural areas then defnitely in the metros).

Gujarat just joined the party a little later.....but to the ppl he's the guy that changed it.

medpal said:
It has been accused that Genocide happend in Gujarat (700 and more muslims were killed while 200 and more hindus were killed).

If i were right there cant be genocide if the oppossing parties both loose lives, correct me if i am wrong.
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"any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."


Does not say if both parties lose lives or not, just that there is a targeted effort towards a party. I think genocide is a rather strong term to use in this context. Whatever it is, there is no forgetting that something very bad happened, foreign media was barred from going there.

medpal said:
What happened in Delhi was even more deafening more than 900 shikhs killed while only 1 hindu was killed that to while saving lives of a sikh family. No one is talking genocide there. No one is talking to shift cases from there. no one is talking Communalism there.
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If all the opposition can offer is harp on about what happened without being able to offer a competiting reason to vote for them then they are asking for defeat.

The man has got a 2/3rd majority so evidently peace & devlopment without justice matters more than instability and even less justice.
medpal said:
I dont want to hurt anyones sentiment. But i cant tolerate just simple plain hatred towards Gujarat.
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Whoh!..you are right into Modi's reality distortion field.

THis man must be a real Phenomenon.
 
blr_p said:
Whoh!..you are right into Modi's reality distortion field.

THis man must be a real Phenomenon.
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well a phenomenon or not, but he is good and efficient administrators.

can you remember in your memory which chief minister in India had guts to appoint strong IAS officers to state PSU and not put any political honcho as head to prevent obstacles and make the PSU profit making bodies.

He prevented all the pressure from political circles, and did not appoint any political appointees to head the PSU boards and gave liberty to MDs so that they can take necessary action and make those money sucking PSUs a Profitable Industrial bodies.

He successfully did it.

Also he divided the SEB in to 7 accountable companies and made the employees accountable and made the state electricity board profitable, the electricity theft has gone down remarkably down. This all was achieved with support of emplyess without any agitation to oppose the reforms, and look other PSUs in countries where unions are preventing better reforms.

I dont support any particular party or politician, till the Modi and his Government are working for people of Gujarat, I am all for his support.

If the situation changes i will definitely support other better strong contenders whole heartedly.

The stories which i put are just a few of his successes.
 
And thats all good.

What about Gujarat being the test bed for hindu extremism ?

..will Modi be able to control these demons.
 
LOL the english media esp: NDTV, and Outlook are one of the worst media reporters ever, so freaking opinionated with their hoopla Secularism ideas. Vote-bank politics of Congress is freaking secular for them. ANd another are the so called NGO's sure for the benefit of a few thousand ppl let the population of billion plus rot...

I dont quite agree with Modi's hardline politics, but anything is better then the vote bank politics employed in the name of secularism by Cong, Bangladesh is losing around 5% of land every year so the displacement happens in India thanks to more votes for a certain party.

50% of India's problems can be resolved by development, and any party which supports it should be at the national helm period.
 
The 9th German federal election of the Weimar Republic was held on March 5, 1933, and was the last election to be held in Germany before World War II. Because of the success of the Nazi Party in the poll, its leader and Chancellor of Germany, Adolf Hitler, was able to pass the Enabling Act, which effectively gave him the power of a dictator.
 
We have a way to do that already its called declaring an Emergency :)

Tho comparisons with a fascist govt. & our country i think are misleading as we are not under the crushing economic embargo they were under at the time. Once the economy goes south the demons come out.
 
blr_p said:
So promises of future gold can absolve one of sins of the past ?
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LOL you looking at the glass half empty way, look at it a glass half full way. We only have two scenarios here:

1. A party which has sinned in the past, and will continue its way just to stay in power

2. A party which may or may not have sinned in the past, but atleast the future looks bright here.

Its a no brainer simply put. :)
 
Certainly made easier by the fact that its next to impossible to bring any case against those responsible, as the judicial system has been completley subverted up to the HC level in that state.

No reliable witnesses, therefore no conviction.

But something did happen and no denies that it did !

It's seductive to want to choose one that can improve one's lot.

But forget the past and a repeat of history becomes inevitable.
 
Nikhil said:
Modi looks set to retain his seat. How sad. I was hoping he would lose and after losing some Hurkat-ul-mujahideen or LeT guy comes and kills him and we would be free from this ***** forever.

what a sad day for secularism in India.
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you must really have a sad life, if you are sucking upto terrorists to kill Modi.
 
RANT BEGINS

Laughter is all that I get by reading messages postd by blr_p and nikhil,LOL.

OK, so the godhra riots happened, but what caused it??Hindus??Nopes, you know what or who caused it. And they were faced with a backlash from Hindus cos they were in majority, I dread to imagine if it wudve been in some other state with muslim majority, Hindus wudve been battered (Like what has been happening since long).

The Congress believes in Divide and Rule, the first thing that congress wants after coming to power is Reservation for minorities(In AP, the YSR Govt did this first, even before building roads,LOL only to have big cutouts of YSR giving a 'Salaam' and proclaiming 'A Promise fulfilled'). Its such a shame that 'intellectuals' like the thread starter think its cool to condemn someone who doesnt give a **** about reservations and has developed Gujarat dramatically in the past 4-5 years.

Excerpts from RBI Report:

A recent Reserve Bank of India report says that Gujarat under Modi was the favourite destination for investments in the country in 2007 -- it ranked first on the list with proposed investments of Rs 73,170 crore in 86 projects, accounting for 25.8 per cent of the total.

Unlike poll surveys, RBI statistics favour Modi

Guess development is no longer an agenda.

It is the 'Cool' sort of people who will ultimately lead to the demise of this crumbling empire that is India. Hate to call myself an Indian when I know that there are Indians who still swear by the Divide and Rule policy and the 'Cool' crowd thinks it hip for them to criticise someone who stands up to the evil forces.

I dont like Modi, he is a narcissit,wanker,fagg0t everything but the development done by him wont have been possible in 50 years of congress rule (Ave been to Gujarat and speak from what ave seen).

Shame, people dont consider development an issue anymore.

Go, vote for a government who wont punish Afzal (or whoever that terrorits was who attacked parliament) cos he belonged to a particular community and let India go to dogs and you sirs shall remain 'Cool' everafter.

END OF RANT.
 
Not denying what you said, in principle...development is defnitely good, the man has concrete achievements for which he has received a mandate from his people.

..but you are forgiving something dangerous for it.

If the higher-ups are immune from the law, then it makes a mockery of what Modi claims to have achieved vis-a-vis corruption.
 
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