No LPG Subsidy from Jan 2016 for consumers with 10 Lac Income

[derp]

If that also fails then let anarchy prevail which is likely to destroy the current society and then lead to a formation of another community from scratch

You mean you feel like migrating to china?

 

[manoja2k]

See this post was about lpg and subsidies attached to it. If you can afford to pay for cylinders, why the hell should the government subsidise lpg for you? Don't you think it would be better if the needy get more benefits?

This is my fundamental question to all of you. You can afford fuel, gas etc, then why are you still expecting doles?

Again, you are missing the point because you are stuck with the morality point. BTW, who defines absolute morality. Individuals give up their rights to live in a society and to enjoy the benefits of it. Same individuals when they feel that they are being exploited by the society directly or indirectly, it is natural that they will try to run away or break apart the society. They will change the definition of morality - of right and wrong[DOUBLEPOST=1451552727][/DOUBLEPOST]

You mean you feel like migrating to china?

Why China? You missed the phrase 'benign autocratic'. Even then also I won't mind trying China's model with few tweaks.

But again it's not about migration. I won't mind trying China's model here. In my opinion we as a country are too vast and too immature and thus incapable to handle a precious gift like 'democracy'.

Let's try any model of governance other than 'democracy'.

 

[rdst_1]

I hope you can see how many of us feel. How frustrated we are with the way the current democratic setup successfully stifles the people who dare to question the rule. It's so sad that it is still called 'a rule', when it was supposed to be service.
You probably don't, but many people over here feel that it is time for a radical change. Heck I wouldn't mind Capitalists taking over the country if it can ensure that projects get completed on time and proper quality is maintained.

 

[asingh]

I had gone last year to apply for an LPG connection cause I transferred houses. They told me the waiting is 15 months for subsidized connection. If I choose to not avail it, I will get the connection in 15 days. So this hardly makes a difference, apart from the gibberish I hear on the IVR - ordering number when I request a new bottle. Anyways, I am moving to piped gas soon in a new house. Away with all this nuisance and governmental on-the-fly norms.

 

[derp]

I hope you can see how many of us feel. How frustrated we are with the way the current democratic setup successfully stifles the people who dare to question the rule. It's so sad that it is still called 'a rule', when it was supposed to be service.

Well, it seems you guys are a minority!

http://m.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/good-sense-on-lpg-subsidy/article8045948.ece.

Btw I still haven't got my answer. Why are you expecting doles from the government when you are self sufficient. Why should the government give you freebies and subsidies?

 

[manoja2k]

Well, it seems you guys are a minority!

http://m.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/good-sense-on-lpg-subsidy/article8045948.ece.

Btw I still haven't got my answer. Why are you expecting doles from the government when you are self sufficient. Why should the government give you freebies and subsidies?

It does not matter whether we are in minority or not, being in the majority has not benefited us much so let's see if being in minority going to help.

Here is my answer

• In the first place why did it start the subsidy and allowed us to enjoy it irrespective of the income? We are habituated

• Also I get a tiny little happiness with the feeling that a bit of my payment comes back to me ( a small revenge may be). In the absence of that I am convinced that this amount will be lost in some unworthy man's pocket

• Worst part is that most members of the basti surrounding my apartment are enjoying privileges based on subsidies in different forms ( free lighting, free rice(2/ per kilo), free lunch, free housing under pretext of rehabilitation, free education, free medical facility, free water supply and now ration card) and are better off than me in many aspects. Their roads are concretised almost once every two years where as the roads of ours have remained unattended for last 4 years.
• Last but not least, since I am forced to pay my IT I would use every chance to get it back

BTW, thank God my last year's income was just less than 10L so I am safe. If it would have been a year before then they would have taken away my subsidy. I have to find a way for limiting next year's declared income.

I have a question - what happens to the person whose last year's income was > 10L and lost his subsidy but next year his income becomes < 5L. Will he get back his subsidy?

 

[rdst_1]

Well, it seems you guys are a minority!

http://m.thehindu.com/opinion/editorial/good-sense-on-lpg-subsidy/article8045948.ece.

Btw I still haven't got my answer. Why are you expecting doles from the government when you are self sufficient. Why should the government give you freebies and subsidies?

I pay my taxes so I am not getting any freebies and you can't seem to understand that. The govt has to provide basic amenities to it's citizens in lieu of the tax it collects from them.

So by your logic if I can afford it I shouldn't ask for subsidy. I am fine with it. But by that logic, if I am paying road tax, I should be getting good roads in return. But I don't get that. So if the govt isn't doing it's work properly then why should it expect me to do the same.

Also applying the same logic as yours, would you deem it alright if I stop paying taxes, if I don't take any subsidy from the govt. You seem to have taken the line that the tax we pay should be only used to provide for the poor and the tax payers be left to fend for themselves. How did you think will this mentality sit with the tax payers?

Karnataka has the highest road tax in India and yet roads in it's capital city of Bangalore are full of potholes. This despite most of the population consisting of high earning ( hence higher IT returns) IT professionals.
You do first have to provide the tax payers with good infrastructure and then use the money left elsewhere, else what is the incentive for them to work hard.

It is all related to corruption. Our govt will always have enough money to do things the right way, but it never will. Constantly oppressing the middle class with taxes and giving nothing in return has left people like me with no hope.

You say that the money we give as taxes is used for the betterment of the poor, but you are dead wrong. In most cases it is just used for the appeasement of the poor. In my mom's village in Haryana, electricity still comes for only 4-6hrs a day. That too after my Mamaji paid for a transformer to be installed from his own pocket. Earlier it was considered okay if electricity came for 2 hrs a day. This is the development that has happened in the 28yrs that I have been alive. Meanwhile, in the city of Rohtak, even street lights stay on at night. All this discrimination because the CM is from Rohtak.

You are asking us to become selfless but the truth is that the salaried middle class has always been the selfless ones, not because of choice but because our system is designed to milk them. And yet, people like you ask them to not question when policies are made to take away from them, what little they are getting.

We have to question such moves, because it's not about the money that we are worried. We are worried that no one has our backs and who knows what the govt might take away next.

 

[derp]

I have a question - what happens to the person whose last year's income was > 10L and lost his subsidy but next year his income becomes < 5L. Will he get back his subsidy?

Good question. But as the subsidies are linked to IT and your salary, you should start getting lpg subsidies again if your income drops below 10lpa levels which I don't see happening if you are a salaried worker.

Constantly oppressing the middle class with taxes and giving nothing in return has left people like me with no hope.

I beg to differ on this one. This present central government is actually merging many of the central taxes and trying to bring about an uniform rax code. However, the state governments are not letting it.

It you see, the RBI has cut costs down and the center is forcing it to go down further. The inflation is under control and our economy has been cushined from the international market fallacies. It all comes down to affordability if you ask me. As long as you are able to route the latest iPhone from California, which you dont need obviously, without cribbing about the price, you are doing fine!

 

[rdst_1]

It you see, the RBI has cut costs down and the center is forcing it to go down further. The inflation is under control and our economy has been cushined from the international market fallacies. It all comes down to affordability if you ask me. As long as you are able to route the latest iPhone from California, which you dont need obviously, without cribbing about the price, you are doing fine!

Come back when these measures are put in place and start working. Saying they are trying doesn't cut it for me anymore. Meanwhile I am gonna continue buying Daal at 150/kg.

See there you go again. So according to you affordability is the criteria. What if it is not for me. So I should settle for a Honda Jazz as it is affordable and not aspire for a Honda Accord. My father never purchased anything affordable in his life. Instead he pooled in his savings and went for the best.

Also please don't reply to my posts if you can't reply to all the points raised by me. You, very conveniently, sidestepped all the points I raised about corruption and your so called development of the poor by giving examples from my own life. Yet you choose not to answer about them.

 

[derp]

You say that the money we give as taxes is used for the betterment of the poor, but you are dead wrong. In most cases it is just used for the appeasement of the poor. In my mom's village in Haryana, electricity still comes for only 4-6hrs a day.

so called development of the poor by giving examples from my own life.

Well, I think you have answered them yourselves. You mentioned somewhere that you are presently located in some village some 300 odd km from a movie theater. Yet, you are able to post your thoughts on an online forum, via a net connection. If you don't consider this as development, I won't know what you will ...

 

[manoja2k]

Let's be very clear. We as human beings are naturally selfish. We tend to stay in society because that is going to benefit us in many other ways and in the process we benefit.
If I pay taxes, I expect to have good infrastructure which is going to make my life easier. Because of that infrastructure some other non-paying fellow has a better life - I have no problem with it. But I have a problem when, due to my tax money someone else benefits and I don't get anything in return. That's when I go all wild.

As far as subsidies are concerned my suggestion would be following.

-stop all subsidies. Let people struggle and adapt themselves to a tough life. There will be in pain but will survive. Also this will create an awareness among people to understand the importance toiling for something they really need.
-If there has to be subsidy then have a clear definition of target group, have a clear strategy to monitor and a flawless implementation strategy. If you are unable to do any of these properly then erase the word subsidy from the dictionary of governance.

Also be very realistic. Most of us are not altruistic. I would like to help others only if I am being helped. I can't digest that you will take my money and help others in improving their life and in the end I end up having a decreased quality of life.[DOUBLEPOST=1451569825][/DOUBLEPOST]Anyhow, use tonight's celebration to think about my perspective in an unbiased way may be you will be able to empathize with my line of thought.
Happy new year

 

[rdst_1]

Well, I think you have answered them yourselves. You mentioned somewhere that you are presently located in some village some 300 odd km from a movie theater. Yet, you are able to post your thoughts on an online forum, via a net connection. If you don't consider this as development, I won't know what you will ...

You are a troll of the highest level mate.

Internet is a luxury I am able to afford, you idiot. Govt auctioned off the spectrum which a private company bought and is now charging us exorbitantly so that it can earn profit off of it. How is that subsidized?

Meanwhile, the basic amenities like electricity, clean drinking water and proper roads are nowhere to be found. We had to get our own tubewell drilled so that we don't have to walk 4kms daily to get drinking water.

You know there is a saying -
Don't argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and then beat you by experience.

Your moronish, illogical comments are making me pull my hair. Time to click on the Ignore button.

 

[Demon_Ryu]

The lpg subsidy we guys are giving up will never end up in the hands of poor
Why?
1st they will never be able to afford all the other things like stove burner to run the lpg
2nd most of them live in houses made of mud and straw which is very dangerous to have a lpg
3rd they get their food fuel for free by collecting dung cakes and twigs.Why would they waste money on a system that would cost them their 8 -10 months income?
So lastly all these lpg will end up in restaurant or any other govt places

 

[iPwnz]

The lpg subsidy we guys are giving up will never end up in the hands of poor

The truth has been spoken.
Seriously, don't go all applauding for and believing the govt. just because they said something which you like or want to hear. You cant do shit without starting from the base level no matter who you are or what political party you belong to. Else you will only avoid/ignore the people who needs you the most, the poorest sections in the rural areas. Even the media does not offer genuine help. Lets not kid ourselves guys.

 

[drkrack]

http://m.ibnlive.com/news/politics/...en-raised-in-view-of-subsidy-row-1183906.html

Good move of reducing food subsidy in parliament canteen by central government.

Slowly stop these useless subsidies for parliamentarians & other well to do classes.

Haj Subsidy should be next in line; SC has already given a directive to stop it by 2022.

 

[asingh]

Giving out things to the poor in India has not effect. I remember we once were giving clothes to poor people, part of a social welfare movement. People nearby told us. By the time we reach the next traffic signal, people would have pawned off the garments. One guy told me to look at all the external tap fixtures. They were all plastic. This was back in the 1990's. When brass fixtures were more common. LOL. Even the toilets gets raided in India.

 

[derp]

Giving out things to the poor in India has not effect.

So the government should let them rot? There are few needy poor too you know.

 

[gauviz]

Governments be it state or union doesn't care about it's citizens, be it rich,middle class or poor.
Poor give them votes so they'll always get stuff from govt for free for votes even though it may not be good for the country.
Middle/Salaried Class pay taxes and help them run the government, but most of it goes into corruption, so more taxes mean more corruption money and not development.
Rich business class create most black money and directly support political party's and get favour's and profit from that.

If you look at India only the Middle/Salaried Class pay and all others profit in most cases.

Poor who need help never get it and their are many examples even now.
ex: MH goverment implemented drought tax as govt. did not have enough money in CM relief fund and has been collecting crores of tax everyday but farmers commit suicide every day.
Same time CM of MH gave lakhs of money from CM relief fund to a group to participate in Thailand in some dance competition.
This was all over in papers and in the end CM office came out with a clarification that CM has the sole discretion of allocating funds. What BS
Govt want votes to come into power and after that poor may as well go and rot in hell.

I don't think we need not elaborate on how the rich business class grease the govt to eat country resources and taxes paid by us.

I would like to clarify that i pay more than 10Lakhs in taxes and have no issues in paying the same as long as it reaches the needy but unfortunately it doesn't.
Like the LPG subsidy it's the govt job to make sure it reaches the needy but govt doesn't care about the needy but their own pockets.

My take is that govt should first plug the gaps/loopholes in current taxation and check corruption which will save them much more than LPG subsidy.
Unfortunately this is not going to happen as then they can't fill there pockets.

Govt is of the people , by the people but not for the people

 

[derp]

so more taxes mean more corruption money and not development

Thread totally derailed. Government has not changed the income tax structure! It has just repealed subsidies for those who can afford! Why is this turning into an income tax debate I fail to understand!!

 

[Demon_Ryu]

So the government should let them rot? There are few needy poor too you know.

These needy poor will remain needy poor
No govt even looks what happens to the actual poor