PS3 launches 11/17--$499 for 20GB, $599 for 60GB

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params7 said:
That's your problem. How is the format supposed to establsih itself when it doesn't get promoted on top selling hardware like Ps3? Besides, Sony has set the medium Blu-Ray for its games as well. So there's no question like "do you want a blu-ray player?" , still, the answer to that will be "There's no other choice!".
Its a new technology, if people always wait for newer things to settle we still would've been at the black and white TV age now.

@Blade - ugh, please don't judge Ps3 by its launch game for chris's sakes! This is the new cell technology, it must've been uber-hard for developers to develop a game which shows Ps3's true potential. Wait for games like MGS4 and Re5 which have been planned for release in 2 years time, then only can you pass a reasonable judge on the console. All points are void now since all you have is based your view on the Ps3 from the early games which would only like tickle Ps3 to wake up.

For an example of what i'm saying, compare SSX (the early laucn game for Ps2) to SSX : On Tour (the latest one) and simple observe the diff in their GFX's. Or pick up WWE Sm Just Bring It to WWE Sm vs Raw 2k6 and be in for a mouth opener difference between the two.
roflcopter ! i like how you say that it's the consumers problem if a certain format isn't a established one :rofl: And i really don't think the games will ship on blu-ray initially. But one things for sure, the early ps3 buyers will end up being geniue pigs for the blu-ray. But all fanboys would definitely feel thats its the responsibility of the end-users to beta-test for sony by paying them a crap-load of money even if the format is unestablished. FYI earlier formats weren't established/decided by consoles.
About the launch game argument, thats the last resort of every fanboi :P So i knew it was coming soon......So accroding to that argument i'll wait for 3-4 years till i see the true prowess of the ps3. But still why pay a crapload more if it isn't going to be anywhere near what those cgi videos were hyped up to be. A lot of fans are going to be disappointed when killzone and some other games release. But we are straying from the original argument i.e. whether the 600$ price is justified ??
Not imho when you are been given a relatively new storage tech, no dual shock!, no next gen gfx, no next gen innovation ! The PITA is actually blu-ray, cause if not for it the ps3 would have been significantly cheaper. :|
So let's not stray off topic and discuss the price.
PS: those argument still stand and aren't void since peeps will be paying 600$+game price+ hd tv price and what not to enjoy the ps3. A relatively high investment by any standards if you ask me.
 
I agree with Params on Blu-Ray. There's no sense in waiting for the masses to catch up on any new standard, they simply never will.

Look at the DVD fiasco - It's 2006, almost a decade and majority of the games still ship across multiple CD's.
 
well blade , if price is a factor then let me tell u one thing ! If Today the xbox 360 is launched with Hd-dvd included then its price will also be around 600$ mark. Thats a smart marketing by microsoft thats all ! They r actually making a fooll outta all of us ! Now Look HD-DVD is an add-on which means after 1-2 years it will be a must for 360 owners to purchase it for another 200$ to enjoy the latest games ! whereas with a PS3 thats not the case ! PS3 is Future Proof which means that I will not have to invest anything in it say after 2-3 years ! If PS3 was Released today without the Blu-ray then its price would also be somewhere around 400$ mark but thats not the case ! Now whether that is a smart thinking by sony or not , Time will Tell But all i can say is that if u compare the PS3 to the xbox 360 then this 600$ price is absolutely Justified ! :)
 
Blade_Runner said:
roflcopter ! i like how you say that it's the consumers problem if a certain format isn't a established one

Did you just assume that or did i really say that? No i don't think so.

Again, you judge the thing before its even there. Its like you were just waiting for the E3 to post the negatives no matter what. No next-Gen gfx? wtf? yeah those cgi doesn't say much, but i'll bet Mgs4, Getaway 3, Gt5 and Re5, and perhaps 100 million other titles that haven't even chosen a developer yet, will say otherwise. How about 'Give it some F***ing time?' Becuase if you ask anyone, its pretty unreasonable if you base E3 as a decider for the crappyness of the Ps3 (sigh).
no dual shock!

Dropped for the new sensor, an innovation indeed if you ask me.

no next gen gfx

Based from E3.

no next gen innovation

What do you want, a super slim console of the size of a microchip with a chair that would plug into virtual reality?

How much innocative was the Ps2 from Ps1? How much innovative was the Snes from Nes? How much innovative was the GBC from GB, and GBA from GBC?

Then, think, how much innovative is the Ps3 from Ps2.

The PITA is actually blu-ray

A next-Generation media, the possible successor to DVD's, the competitor to HD-DVD. If not for the movies nobody here cares about, i'm sure it'll definitely make a good media to backup for hardrive on.

So let's not stray off topic and discuss the price.

Perfectly justified when the components itself cost more than 900$. Perfect, they're going for a loss right from the launch price and will go further down within a year, and even when the real games which will utilize Ps3's real power will start appearing too. Yes, it takes that long for the consoles to initialize, consider it as their weakness.

PS: those argument still stand and aren't void since peeps will be paying 600$+game price+ hd tv price and what not to enjoy the ps3. A relatively high investment by any standards if you ask me.

A desktop with components that would outclass the PS3's components (512mb ram, couple of 6800's, Blu-Ray drive etc etc) + a 19"+ higher gaming level LCD would surpass Ps3 by a far amount. yeah this is using PC vs Console but just to give a comparison, its not bad considering its the launch.
 
@bluff: no my dear friend, the games will still be on dvd. Ms themselves have already clarified this info and plus i don't think games/game assest will grow at a phenomenol rate that it will require a 50Gb blu-ray disc. Besides there is compression technology as well and the option to use 2 dvds for a game.There was a thread on TE regarding this

http://www.techenclave.com/forums/xbox-360-sufficient-game-storage-65798.html

Read it and google for the news that games on the x360 will be dvd only not hd-dvd. The hd-dvd option is only for movie ! But then to each his own, if you think the $600 of price tag is justified i am sure you will be getting one on launch. :)

Also this re-iterates my point about sonys crappy e3 showing

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2263
 
Bluffmaster said:
well blade , if price is a factor then let me tell u one thing ! If Today the xbox 360 is launched with Hd-dvd included then its price will also be around 600$ mark. Thats a smart marketing by microsoft thats all ! They r actually making a fooll outta all of us ! Now Look HD-DVD is an add-on which means after 1-2 years it will be a must for 360 owners to purchase it for another 200$ to enjoy the latest games ! whereas with a PS3 thats not the case ! PS3 is Future Proof which means that I will not have to invest anything in it say after 2-3 years ! If PS3 was Released today without the Blu-ray then its price would also be somewhere around 400$ mark but thats not the case ! Now whether that is a smart thinking by sony or not , Time will Tell But all i can say is that if u compare the PS3 to the xbox 360 then this 600$ price is absolutely Justified ! :)
Now that you have mentioned it thrice already I cannot hold myself back..
Going just by the economics point of view.. It would be cheaper to spend $200 after 3 years than now. SO thanks to smart marketing by microsoft people actually end up saving money.
 
He keeps on saying that in a couple of years you will need to buy an HD-DVD for the XBOX360, but he offers no proof there.

My problem with blu-ray is that such formats should be decided by proper full fledged DVD player type devices (home theatre systems and all), not consoles. If they could offer it in the same price, then well and good. Otherwise they should spare us.

As for Saumil's point
Look at the DVD fiasco - It's 2006, almost a decade and majority of the games still ship across multiple CD's.
, Yes, but all movies are on DVDs now. Games will take some time to really use blu-ray capacity. DVD-DL will be alright for at least 3 years I guess. Even fat games like far cry take 3G on disk. On a DVD they can take less, as many files can be compressed. When I talk of format wars, I am referring to BetaMax vs VHS.

Why shouldn't we judge the PS3 by its launch games? The XBOX360 has pretty much been judged in the same way. So will the Wii. If the launch games are sucky, maybe we should not buy the console. Wait for a year or so till Sony becomes desperate and reduces prices to throwaway levels, and then buy it. By that time, new games will have come out.

And don't talk about how it is difficult to develop for the Cell. As of now, the cell processor is not used for graphics. It is used for general purpose (non graphics) and physics processing. Blade Runner was not complaining about the graphics, and that is based on the regular NVidia stuff. The difficulty in programming for the Cell comes in only if you want to actually use the advanced parallel architecture! As of now, the PS3 is being used pretty much as a gaming PC with a PPC at the heart instead of an AMD/Intel x86 processor. Blaming the cell would only be valid if he were complaining about the physics or slow overall gameplay.

And what about the fact that the lower end version is a complete farce?

Plus, as I said before - to justify the huge delays, they need to be able to show us a product which is head and shoulders above it's rivals. I am afraid they can't do that. It may be better, but not enough. They have had a lot more time than MS. They will be releasing it at least 9 months after MS, and they still don't have that much to show for it. In those 9 months the only thing that was actually finalised was the Blu-ray. That was the one thing not available to them at the time MS released the X360. Was it really worth it? If they had pushed up the schedule, they might have been able to provide us with som really awesome stuff by now. And they could have played the same game as MS - provide an add-on blu-ray. When MS released its HD-DVD attachment, they could do the same. I still don't get why they took such a risk on the blue-ray. I mean, would it kill them to switch to the other side? Is it that Sony cannot produce HD-DVDs, that they have been locked out in some way? Because they have gambled the PS3 on it.
 
params7 said:
Did you just assume that or did i really say that? No i don't think so.

lol why would i assume

params7 said:
That's your problem. How is the format supposed to establsih itself when it doesn't get promoted on top selling hardware like Ps3?

that was your reply to kk's post ;)

Again, you judge the thing before its even there. Its like you were just waiting for the E3 to post the negatives no matter what. No next-Gen gfx? wtf? yeah those cgi doesn't say much, but i'll bet Mgs4, Getaway 3, Gt5 and Re5, and perhaps 100 million other titles that haven't even chosen a developer yet, will say otherwise. How about 'Give it some F***ing time?' Becuase if you ask anyone, its pretty unreasonable if you base E3 as a decider for the crappyness of the Ps3 (sigh).

Of all the people you should know that events like e3 make or break consoles/games sometime ! But anyways you would want to justify your point so it doesn't matter whats the truth ;) This isn't pc vs console but pc gamers never use the argument of "Give it some farking time for the games to come". Last year there was the x800/gf 6 series and there was doom/hl2 to compliment it. This year the x1900/7900 series and oblivion/fear to support it. ;)
Dropped for the new sensor, an innovation indeed if you ask me.

Innovation or plain rip-off. Btw this was available for pc gamepad which date back to 1999. ;) Actually it looks like a rushed response to the wii-mote which was the talk among most gamers pre-e3 !

What do you want, a super slim console of the size of a microchip with a chair that would plug into virtual reality?

How much innocative was the Ps2 from Ps1? How much innovative was the Snes from Nes? How much innovative was the GBC from GB, and GBA from GBC?

Then, think, how much innovative is the Ps3 from Ps2.

I wasn't expecting anything of your description but something better than the competition. But sadly Sony over promised and under-delivered ! That is what irks me and sadens that fanbois still support them. There should have been atleast some tangible benefits of buying a ps3 ! Like kk said earlier, some more ram, a better gpu, or a better price. Sadly sony did not deliver on any front. :| The response to kaz hirai's/phil/ken's speech and demos was literally nil during the press conference.

A next-Generation media, the possible successor to DVD's, the competitor to HD-DVD. If not for the movies nobody here cares about, i'm sure it'll definitely make a good media to backup for hardrive on.

indeed it very well could be ! but can't we all just get along together ! Why do we need to create 10 formats and then abandon 9 of them and their adopters ! So on this front i am neither with blu-ray nor hd-dvd cause frankly i don't intend to buy a hd set anytime soon. They are imho a overkill. Even in the e3 conference, kaz said by 2007/08 25% households in US will have a hd-set ! Awesome isnt it ! and there he was standing talking about 1080p and how HD gaming doesn't onset unless sony says so ! :rofl:

Perfectly justified when the components itself cost more than 900$. Perfect, they're going for a loss right from the launch price and will go further down within a year, and even when the real games which will utilize Ps3's real power will start appearing too. Yes, it takes that long for the consoles to initialize, consider it as their weakness.

Read what i said about sony earning back the money in the long run. With 600$ and a crippled 500$ ps3 they are just maximising their long run profits. But i am sure you won't get that part and still argue that it packs some |337 hardware ;)

A desktop with components that would outclass the PS3's components (512mb ram, couple of 6800's, Blu-Ray drive etc etc) + a 19"+ higher gaming level LCD would surpass Ps3 by a far amount. yeah this is using PC vs Console but just to give a comparison, its not bad considering its the launch.

please no pc vs console :) Been there done that ;)
 
Sony was guaranteed a threepeat #1 with a generic $300 "power" system if only because their entrenched zombie fan base is willing to buy it just because it's Sony...but the fact that their system is going to be $500-600, Sony might have actually done the impossible in allowing a chance that they'll be dethroned...
This is from the article that blade posted and I guess this sums up what Blade and KK have been trying to say.. :bleh:

Someone help me remember, didn't $ony hype the P$3 as having the ability to output to TWO HD displays? From what I've read so far, if you get the cheaper version you don't even get HDMI out, and the more expensive one gives you only one HDMI out. That's a far cry from powering two displays. Again, it's prototype hype VS. production cost reality, and reality has obviously won.
 
KingKrool said:
Why shouldn't we judge the PS3 by its launch games? The XBOX360 has pretty much been judged in the same way. So will the Wii. If the launch games are sucky, maybe we should not buy the console. Wait for a year or so till Sony becomes desperate and reduces prices to throwaway levels, and then buy it. By that time, new games will have come out.

And don't talk about how it is difficult to develop for the Cell. As of now, the cell processor is not used for graphics. It is used for general purpose (non graphics) and physics processing. Blade Runner was not complaining about the graphics, and that is based on the regular NVidia stuff. The difficulty in programming for the Cell comes in only if you want to actually use the advanced parallel architecture! As of now, the PS3 is being used pretty much as a gaming PC with a PPC at the heart instead of an AMD/Intel x86 processor. Blaming the cell would only be valid if he were complaining about the physics or slow overall gameplay.

Qft for the first part. As for the graphics, this time around the devs don't have any limitations as such since they are using a opengl'esque API rather than the primitive assembly code used for the ps2. Sadly even that ain't upto the mark for demanding such a high ransom !

@ren: Yes thats true ! If at all anything the zombie fan base of Sony might pull it out of the rut ! Imho everyone should refuse to be a part of it atleast until sanity is restored and prices are brought down to more sensible levels. They can pretty much shove the blu-ray you know where :|
 
And to add, at the time of the PS3 launch, the Xbox 360 premium will be down to $299 so the PS3 will be double the cost of the 360. And the HD-DVD drive addon wouldnt be more than $99 i guess(launch Christmas). SO for $400 u get a Xbox 360 + HD-DVD which is $200 short of the PS3( IF its available, and thats a big IF)
 
Ok here's another disappointment in true Sony style. Show pre-rendered mind-blowing CGI and then under-deliver the graphics ! :ohyeah:

Snoopers managed the impossible and just sent me this first ever (afaik) gameplay video of Motorstorm. Good job! His first impressions are that the game is very pretty but also very empty. It's also far from looking as good as last year's trailer. Enjoy the video.
 
only time will tell who will win in the long run .. MS 360 or Sony P3(branded 'vaporware' by Chaos ;) ). remember guys, it will take one full year or more to show the full potential of the XBox 360 or the PS3 :) . why flame right away ? lets see what consumers really need and how much could these developers really deliver . The Lack of HDMI in PS3 truely sucks !! I vote for HD-DVD :D
 
Why shouldn't we judge the PS3 by its launch games?

Because its wrong? Consoles are supposed to be a long time investments, launches are generally rushed. Consoles need at least 2-3 years to prove their point. Here, you judge Ps3 with a racing game that doesn't send dust flying everywhere, there Capcom employees say they've delaid the release of Resident Evil 5 because every piece of hair on the chracters face will be tailor made. Yeah, go on KK, go judge the entire system on some 5-10 games literally only 'Previewed' at E3, and most of them even ended up saying they'll be adding more.

Wait for the reviews, you wanna judge a Ps3? Judge it on the end quarter E3 of 2008.

This isn't pc vs console but pc gamers never use the argument of "Give it some farking time for the games to come".

That's something very unreasonable to pull out Blade especially after you made me quite on PCvsC. Why do PC gamers even need that farking time? PC gaming traffic doesn't depend entirely on one video card? even if say X1900 fails to release or impress, the PC gaming industry will still go on like nothing happened.

Something like that happening to a console will yield just the opposite results.

Innovation or plain rip-off. Btw this was available for pc gamepad which date back to 1999. Actually it looks like a rushed response to the wii-mote which was the talk among most gamers pre-e3 !

Or maybe they figured fans wouldn't really want another lame vibrating dualshock, and instead they added sensors, yes its ripping off the wii-mote but if it is what the public wants then what the hell, why not go for it, it'll only make the DS better, and even add more functionality to the games, like a perfect blend of Wii and HD gaming.

Like kk said earlier, some more ram, a better gpu, or a better price.

Well it seems some do not appreciate the Blu-Ray here, but its too early to say anything. We need to wait for a couple of more years to find out if Blu-Ray really was a good investment in Ps3 by Sony or not.

About a more faster, stronger Ps3, that's always the case. who wouldn't want more functionality on their devices.

I think the Ps3 specs are just fine, it doesn't provide the fine thread PC video cards have been producing since the last year but like i've said many times before, Consoles will NEVER have the edge in Graphics and are mostrly bound to dissapoint, largely because of their inability to keep upgrading their core gpu. Those who have been gaming on PC do not find Ps3 next-gen (KK, Blade), but those who have been gaming on consoles, like myself and Bluff and after having a look at E3, must say the videos have really suprised us.

Talking about sales, if Ps2 sold 100 million units being the weakest console of the three and owned the market. Which tells us that never judge a console on its gfx capabilities. Gameplay over Eveycandy, that has always been the case, if that racing game doesn't send dust flying but if its provides an extremly fun, entertaining gameplay it'll sell like hell. That's always been the case for gamers and always will be. And know what Ps2's launch titles were? ESPN X-Games snowboarding, Moto GP, Tekken Tag, Timesplitters, SSX etc.

And when they released, Gamers went nuts everywhere screaming how disspaointed they were when they found out Ps2 wasn't delivering the GFX candy promised and that it was not even better than some Dreamcast games that was out there competing the Ps1! Hope you read that KK, its always good to go back in time and improve the way we are supposed to look at things.

Back to Ps3, nothing can be said on how good it'll perfrom or how much it'll sell until it sets itself in the market and some real games for it are released. Period. Ps3 isn't here, The public isn't playing it, nobody can confirm anything, the top developers like Capcom, Namco, EA, Konami have started the the development of their signature franchises, so why not we all give each other a big group hug so that we can wait peacefuly for it and see it for ourselves :)
 
Params7 clearly is confused - he is not at all sure about whether he wants graphics or gameplay (Wii has no good graphics according to him, so he won't buy it). Make up your mind dude.

You don't want graphics.

You don't want gameplay.

You don't even really want a Blu-ray.

All you want is a PS3.

Fanboism at its best.

BTW, I am not a PC gamer. If I ever gamed seriously it was on my wonderful SNES.

I know all about the dreamcast and PS. Hell, I have seen all of these consoles in action. I have seen the PS1, PS2, NES, SNES, atari 8 bit, atari jaguar, neo geo, panasonic 3DO, Sega (mega drive, genesis), Sega's CD attachment, Sega Saturn, Sega dreamcast, N64, Turbographx and god alone knows what else in action. I don't claim to have played all of these, just seen them running and being played by other chaps.

The consoles I have not seen are XBOX (original and 360) and the Gamecube. PS3 of course, has not been seen by anyone.

So don't talk to me in your condescending little attitude about consoles.

And BTW, I supported the PS3 originally, until they decided to make the world wait and pay through the nose for a product that was not substantially better than the competitors.

Ultimately it is all about value for money - and I don't believe the PS3 at launch will be able to match the XBOX360. Maybe after 3 years. Which is why I said we should all wait.

As for judging on the basis of launch games - well, you clearly know how to conveniently leave out whatever goes against you. I said that since we all did the same in the case of XBOX360, why should the PS3 be different?? You say the PS3 is better than the X360 how exactly? All you could possibly have seen are first gen games.

Fundamentally, there is no reason why the XBOX360 or PS3 should be better than one another. They have similar spces in the gfx and RAM department. The PS3 would have been able to kill the X360, if they used the cell for other stuff. But right now, at most it is used for physics, and a triple core PPC should be able to do that well enough for now. By the time developers figure out how to use such computationally heavy physics that the 3 core PPC will not be able handle it while the Cell can, we will be in the next gen of consoles.
 
Params7 clearly is confused - he is not at all sure about whether he wants graphics or gameplay (Wii has no good graphics according to him, so he won't buy it). Make up your mind dude.

You don't want graphics.

You don't want gameplay.

You don't even really want a Blu-ray.

All you want is a PS3.

Fanboism at its best.

ugh, dude, all i want is a console that would hold my favourite games, Ps3 more likely. Where did i say i don't want gameplay? Where did i say i don't want Blu-Ray? Wtf is wrong with you? All this time i've been rooting FOR Blu-Ray.

(Wii has no good graphics according to him, so he won't buy it)

Oh please just give up man! Stop making stuff up! Stop pulling out claims out your ***. And stop messing things up, please!

Sure, Wii doesn't really stand up to graphics, but then the MAIN reason is that it doesn't have the games I WANT TO PLAY!

(RE, MGS, WWE, GTA, Getaway, Gran Turismo....)

I said that since we all did the same in the case of XBOX360

Who did? X360 can't be judged yet! Its what i've been saying all along.

why should the PS3 be different??

Pathetic. Really, i don't think anybody here really has said which one is better, Ps3 or X360, because it isn't even possbile to compare the two now.

The launch of 360 hasn't been good, that's what people have said. Same as Ps3's. Nobody has directly compared 360 and Ps3 with one another and said which one is better, which again will only be possbile when both of them are transitioned in the market with their supposed 'killer' titles released.

So i take what you meant with that is, since people judged 360's launch as not an impressive one, people have the same impressions for Ps3's preview, right?

You say the PS3 is better than the X360 how exactly?

Drugs are bad, or at least log on internet after you're done with the hangover, then point out the line where i have said the Ps3 is better, because all i've supported is the games i play are stationed on Ps3.

All you could possibly have seen are first gen games.

*bangs head to wall*

Did you really say that?? :O

Because, that's what i've been saying the whole time. All we've seen are the launch, not the material for the ultimate decider.
 
KK Pwned by Param ! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

BTW I Totally agree with Param ! Its still the first gen games we r seeing on the consoles , Give them some time say... 2 more years and U will know exactly why its better to own a console then a PC !
 
^^ Thats the most intelligent thing i've heard in this thread :|. Btw guys none of us as against the ps3 and frankly speaking i've owned every Sony console i.e. psx, ps2, psp ! But you guys simply fail to get the point and go into the same rut over and over again. So i'll /thread from my end. :)

Debates can only be had and enjoyed when both the sides are on the same wavelength. :)
 
Its ok Blade.

i see the main argument against the Ps3 has been its price.

Whether the price is justified or not depends on the success of Blu-Ray, one of the most expensive components of Ps3, and for that, we'll have to wait to find out. So, those who want to play it safe are better ending up waiting for a year or two because Ps3's price will go down and we'd be most likely be close to a decider between HD and Blu-Ray (hopefuly by that time at least)
 
Bluffmaster said:
Give them some time say... 2 more years and U will know exactly why its better to own a console then a PC !
Been doing the same since 1997, and the only trend we see is console prices rising to equal pc's while usability remains the equivalent of a pad-cell - Sure we'll cushion you, just don't expect to get out of the box.
 
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