Pulwama attack

6pack said:
Then why mention anything about the bombing at all? Should have kept quiet from the beginning and said India did nothing. If they are claiming they sent Mirage 2000 fighter planes to bombard terrorist camps and killed terrorists then prove it. If they don't prove it, there are news media like Reuters who have gone to the villages Pakistan near the place that was attacked and villagers say the place having the JeM people in a mosque is still standing and nothing was destroyed. And the only person injured was a man sleeping who was hit with something while he was asleep in his home. If the Indian govt and IAF is claiming causalities then they should be ready to show the evidence.
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This is the PM putting his stamp on a high risk decision. Second time now. This is a departure from the past where whatever we did was never known. Over a hundred things could go wrong here so previous leaders were wary and risk averse. I read the IAF was saying they could do operations like this as early as the 90's. Why not we got the Mirage's a decade earlier. But the decision was never taken, the LOC was considered sacrosanct and crossing it was out of the question.

What we do know is our jets crossed into their space and dropped bombs in Balakote. We know this by no less than the ISPR spokesman who inadvertently gave the game away when their official line was we only got slightly inside their side of the LOC and then quickly scooted out.

It doesn't matter what we really did just that the domestic audience believes we did it. Sees the government trying to do something. Any thing. And whether they consider this action as sufficient retribution for Pulwama and past atrocities. Initial reactions are positive.

Don't mistake me to not be a non patriotic person. I am patriotic, but I don't want the rest of the world laughing their asses off at the failure of the Indian Air Force and India as a whole when they dropped bombs hundreds of feet away from the target and came back. Even commercial drones, cameras etc being sold to civilians now have some very good night time optics now. 4am in mountains is like twilight conditions. Its enough light for night vision optics to get clear pictures and for the pilot to take a good aim at a mosque or wherever the terrorists were hiding. If the planes didn't have night vision or any good night time capabilities why did they even try doing this? Why didn't they use the SU-K30MKi which is much better and has longer range of flight? If you're going to attack something in the dark, you very well make it 100% and not make a laughing stock of the country! If no one died, is the Indian Air Force going to take responsibility and go again after the target? Will they apologize for making Indians look like fools? Both answers will be no because no one in higher positions knows how to apologize or take responsibility here. If no one died then they look like clowns now.
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Nobody is laughing at us. On the contrary the reaction would be what took so long. Now an acknowledgement will spread that India is growing up, standing on its own feet and fighting its battles instead of expecting others to do the dirty work. This has an immediate bearing in Afghanistan. An India that is more likely to act means the Paks can no longer take us for granted like in the past.


The statement by the foreign secretary was very clear as to the intent. Pre-emptive, this matters as there is justification in international law that actions were taken to prevent further loss of life. Punitive strikes from what i understand have no basis in law. Even the last raid was on launch pads that would be used to send more militants across the border.
 
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Sad to see the pilot being beaten and captured but the situation seems to have de-escalated for now.

Hopefully cooler heads will prevail on both sides and they return the pilot back quickly.
 
Marcus Fenix said:
This does make a lot of sense.

BTW thanks a lot for sharing her article in one of your previous posts.

The way Paki army maintains its grasp on the country is by making up India to be a bigger threat than it actually is and portraying themselves as the sole defender of the nation. Same tactics as used by Bush and Cheney to win their reelection and shore up domestic surveillance. This is the ypical hardliner authoritarian strategy we have seen during the course of history with Reagan,Duterte, Erdogan, Viktor Orban ,Trump et all. They try to make an enemy e.g. Mexicans seem a bigger threat than they actually are and rile up their base with fear. People always go for hardliners when they are scared as we have seen so many times.

If we come to peace with them then Paki army loses their 25% chunk of Paki GDP and massive political power as well.

Modi gets to sail through the reelection by reaping the deserved benefits of this strike and everything else will be forgotten in the hype of nationalistic righteousness.But then again I want him to win this time since I think that every government should last for 2 terms but never the 3rd term. A major win would be a bad thing though as BJP will start its usual communal crap yet again if they are emboldened by the electorate.

So funnily enough the Indian government elite and Paki army elite have a symbiotic advantage with each other for thier respective power bases in their own countries. The only people dying are the common grunts and TBH no one at the higher echelons ours or theirs gives a crap about them unless its to their advantage. But this is common behavior across all ruling elites over the course of human history so no surpises there.
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So the long and short of it is Modi makes the Pak military's job easier ?

Motivates their militants
Boosts their raison d'etre in Pakistan
Helps their kashmir narrative
Fulfills their communal agenda in india, though i think this has been exaggerated

It does mean they are also interfering in our elections. If true by giving Modi a boost.

Before this attack and subsequent action, BJP was looking at 150 - low 200 seats. No chance of the majority they got in 2014.

Now, maybe they could aim for mission 272. Expect 200 - 300 seats.

The bad news is conflicts have a way of enduring as vested interests want it that way. On both sides.
 
India being at "near war" situation is something that BJP can exploit in multiple ways. So, why would they be bothered by it. Its not like Modi has ever cared for the lives of other people. In fact, this stand off is not only good for Modi's politics, but for Pak Military as well as they can now easily ensure that they keep getting a major chunk of their budget.
 
chetansha said:
MiG 21 bison are the updated version
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Yes I know but even then the Bis being an upgraded 2nd gen jet cannot go toe to toe with a 4th gen F16.

Most importantly the counter measures suite on the Bis is far behind the 4th gen US systems on the Paki F16 or the Israeli systems on our Su30s.This is what saves your hide if you are locked on by radar-guided or heat-seeking missiles.

P.S. Israelis are the masters of aircraft ECM(Electronic counter measures)
 
Lord Nemesis said:
This is the kind of stuff that the bhakths spread around to make a mockery of the lives lost in the line of duty. I tell you, people like this are the cancer of this nation.

--------------------------------

Date: 26 January 1992,
Location: Lal Chowk, Srinagar, J&K

Terrorists had announced that if anyone comes to Lal Chowk, Srinagar and hoists the national flag, then they won't return back alive to their home

Seperatists also supported this but 2 people from BJP accepted the challenge and started their journey from Kanyakumari and reached Jammu on morning of 26 January 1992. From there they took a helicopter to reach Srinagar and in a event which lasted 15 minutes, they hoisted the national flag and concluded the event by singing the national anthem

During this time terrorists blasted 5 bombs but the person hoisting the flag did not move even a inch and after completing the event, he marched to the car, got in the car and reached the helicopter to return back

And you think that person will stay silent on the martyrdom of 45 brave soldiers. If you think like that then you need good treatment

The 2 persons were Murli Manohar Joshi and Narendra Modi and the person who hoisted the national flag, sung the national anthem and marched to his car was none other than Narendra Modi

Have patience. Narendra Modi has more fire than us in his heart.
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I would actually support Joshi & Modi's actions here. Who is anyone to say where the Indian flag cannot be hoisted. It is an act of outright defiance over the pathetic handling of affairs after the ethnic cleansing of the pandits from Kashmir. Why are you silent about that. Don't you consider the people behind it a cancer to this nation. Fortunately, other than you a lot of people do.


35A is in the supreme court and cannot withstand judicial scrutiny. It should be removed given the manner in which it was introduced. The next target will be article 370.

The idea of the party in office is to unite the country not preserve divisions.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
India being at "near war" situation is something that BJP can exploit in multiple ways. So, why would they be bothered by it. Its not like Modi has ever cared for the lives of other people. In fact, this stand off is not only good for Modi's politics, but for Pak Military as well as they can now easily ensure that they keep getting a major chunk of their budget.
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There is no "near war" situation. That was never the idea of this strike. In fact the Paks are de-escalating as expected


listen to the lady who wrote that article i linked earlier.
 
Meanwhile... Air Canada temporarily suspends flights to India, reports Reuters.

Canada's largest carrier canceled one flight to India from Vancouver and another flight en route to Delhi has turned back to Toronto.
 
blr_p said:
Correct, the other side is 'claiming' to have captured him

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They have got him - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...s-Indian-jets-carries-airstrikes-Kashmir.html

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Red Alert sounded in the entire Delhi Metro network from 6pm this evening. All station controllers are required to inspect entire station premises (including parking lots) for any suspicious activity/ items and report to the control center every couple of hours.
 
There's no proof given by our government of

- Jaish camp's existence in Balkot
- Aftermath of attack on Balkot
- Pakistani F16 getting shot down

Our PM gave chest thumping speech after Balkot strike but it has been all quiet ever since the news of Wing Commander Abhinandan's capture.

Not to mention our finance minister is chest thumping India can do what US did with Osama. India's defense budget is $55-65 billion. US has defense budget around $650-700 billion. Literally 10 times more than ours.

Meanwhile Pakistani government:

- Tweeted about intrusion of airspace
- Posted photos of ejected tanks
- Had press conference where they denied the attack having done any damage
- Posted proof that Indian pilot is captured
- Even clarified that another crash in Budgam was not their doing.
- Their PM addressed the nation and rest of the world after today's skirmish
- Refuted India's claim of downing F 16 and counterclaimed that F 16 were not even flown today.

I can't stress this enough but this is not doing us any good. At all.

Makes me wonder if the Balkot strike was really thought out with all possible reactions by Pakistan taken into account. Cause if they were then we wouldn't have flown MIG-21 against (possibly) F-16s.

Christ, what a s***show.
 
- The camp was detailed in a wikileaks report back in 2004 by the Americans when they interrogated a guantanamo detainee. We got satelittes to watch. Reason we went for the camp is they pulled people back from launchpads and they ended up in two places either in Nowshera or Manshera. We went with the latter and got quite a few. Now i figured they would pull people back and thought now we have no element of surprise so what do we hit. I never thought we'd go bold & deep and get the bigger target.

- aftermath of camp we have to wait until weather is better meaning their bulldozers have to sanitise the place you know for any unexploded ordinance for safety of the press ofc.

Damn straight they gave a chest thumping speech because finally he's called their nuclear bluff.

WHO had the balls to take that decision and decided to go with it no matter where it went.

The message is very simple, if we can hit militants in Balakote, who knows where the next strike will be.

Bhawalpur, Pindi ? that is what the FM is implying. Why he is the one saying this and not Nirmala is a mystery.

Militants can run but cannot hide. Maybe they should think again if they want to hit us. Because it is clear their patrons cannot adequately defend them. What we did becomes a template now, something the Iranians & Afghans with similar grievances are closely watching. They could be more repeats of the same action by them as well.

If the Paks retaliate then Chinese BRI goes for a toss. So now we co-opt the Chinese on our side because they have a lot of investments there.

Paks complaining about India and the world tells them to close the camps, then India won't attack.

So basically you have been fooled by the Pak disinfo here :D nobody in other capitals believes it. The doubt in your post is typical of our predicament going back to Kargil. What if we cross the LOC, let alone if we go into Pakistan proper. Hasn't happened since '71. No more. That era ended yesterday.

The reason we lost our pilot is the guy chased the F-16 back into POK and was taken out by ground fire.

Unnecessary but after one kill you kinda want another.

Remember these guys are not the afraid type. We'll get him back. Paks are bound by the Geneva convention. This is an IAF officer not some militant and is bound by rules. If the Paks play hard and fast there will be consequences.

Finally, us withholding evidence gives the Paks an out ;)

They know what we did as do their auxiliaries.
 
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The Osama operation was done after more than 6 months of careful monitoring, planning and extensive simulations.

Modi doesn't have 6 months before elections and his supporters are anyway incurably stupid to the point that they will pick what ever is thrown their way. The outcome is border tensions in which more innocent people along the border (also called "strategic assets" by Arun Jaitley because their deaths and suffering can be used for local and international politics) losing their lives and our soldiers ending up in the hands of the enemy.

Whats even more horrifying is that some BJP Bhakths have started labeling Wing Commander Abhinandan as a martyr. I am not sure whether they don't understand what martyr means or if they want him to be killed so that they can further their agenda.
 
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