Pulwama attack

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In this era of wikileaks etc. i would believe anything is possible. We have a lot of history as proof also. If people are claiming this was done by the opposition to destroy the bjp, i'd say that is a possibility too. The thing most people don't realise is that the ruling class doesn't see the population as equals, once they reach their vip levels. this is true everywhere in the world, not just here. And anyone and anything is expendable to them to achieve their goals. i wouldn't put this beyond either side.

of course the simplest explanation is that some kid got tired of the crap going on in his backyard, fell for the indoctrination of predatory vultures masquerading as religious leaders, and did something as stupid as it is vile and heinous.
Not the opposition, the pak military. But still its far fetched. Modi has been an absolute pain for them. Calling out their BS non stop.

I will never believe we sacrificed the lives of our men in this way. This is complete and utter nonsense.

It isn't difficult to manipulate kids, kids that might have had a run in with the forces.

There is the excitement of guns and gangster chic, there's women and money for whatever remains of a short life.
 
No such thing as independent action. Loose canons that do not follow order are replaced. The order came from the Pak military. 100%.

Where does the expertise to put that explosive together come from ? afghan veterans because that expertise isn't available in India.

The guy was mouthing off Pak progranada in his video, not kashmiri propaganda. Where do you get an M4 in India.

Why do you say govt ? the govt and Imran's job is designated dog catcher. He does not get a say in foreign affairs.

I think this is just being bold to save the movement.

So you're saying the military is acting independently of the govt. ? Possible, especially for pak.

Also means the end of imran's peacenik attempts...

You still doubt it happened ? wow

The reason there is no evidence is because the Paks cleaned it up quickly so there would be no trace. They are very good at getting rid of evidence and then saying nothing happened. Obviously because they would look bad otherwise. This is why no independent verification exists.

I never said it didn't happen. I'm saying our govt. exaggerated the results. What has changed since then? Why did Pulwama happen if it was so effective?

as for what we've been doing

Read

Not a sexy answer

If all this 'change' had real effect, 40 of our boys wouldn't have died.
 
I will never believe we sacrificed the lives of our men in this way. This is complete and utter nonsense.

I used to be a conspiracy theory skeptic too. But there's just too much shit flying around to not stick somewhere.

Think about what happened to haren pandya and later justice loya. They brutally killed one of their own for snitching. That's like mafia level. Of course the SITs and courts cleared everyone. Every frigging right wing terrorist is gradually being cleared and released since the last few years, if you follow the small news that almost no one notices. Again, people in power can do anything to retain it. After a certain point, everything is kosher. Basic human nature.
 
So you're saying the military is acting independently of the govt. ? Possible, especially for pak.

Also means the end of imran's peacenik attempts...
Military always acts independently of the govt. The govt is some facade that there is democracy but in reality Paks do not have a say in these matters, at all. If elected leaders try to push against the military they are either shot, hanged or thrown in jail.

I never said it didn't happen. I'm saying our govt. exaggerated the results. What has changed since then? Why did Pulwama happen if it was so effective?
I don't know about exaggerating. Hyping for political mileage ? yes but then if you take the risk, put your name on it why not.

We never hear what our people do. There is this tradition of never talking about it and reality is the public are for the most part ignorant of what the military is even for.

This means we don't spend much on defense because that money can be used for other populist things instead.

If all this 'change' had real effect, 40 of our boys wouldn't have died.
Well, that is what people say. That the Paks can still hit us when they want.

To prevent that
- need to spend more
- do bad things in their country in other words be pro-active not reactive.

ok ?
 
Military always acts independently of the govt. The govt is some facade that there is democracy but in reality Paks do not have a say in these matters, at all. If elected leaders try to push against the military they are either shot, hanged or thrown in jail.

Not every country's military. Ours and thais for example.

Anyway, if it can be substantially proven that the pak military is behind the attack, i would support a first strike nuclear attack against their critical installations. As 'surgically' as possible, mind you. Proving that is next to impossibly though. Enough of this damn defensive posture of ours.
 
Not every country's military. Ours and thais for example.
We're not talking about ours. We're talking about theirs. And this is not a matter of dispute any where i'm aware of.

Anyway, if it can be substantially proven that the pak military is behind the attack, i would support a first strike nuclear attack against their critical installations. As 'surgically' as possible, mind you. Proving that is next to impossibly though. Enough of this damn defensive posture of ours.
JeM has admitted they did the attack. JeM is one of the choicest snakes the PA has reared.

We don't do first use. This is not going to change no matter how much rhetoric comes out.

In these matters legal stds of proof are not necessary. The picture is much more complex and multi-faceted
 
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Also, found this online:

View attachment 78828

I've always wondered about that. Kids, teens and adults are getting brainwashed or something that they want to join a failed country which is begging for money to stay alive and treats women and minorities miserably. What would make these people so delusional that they want to join a country that has blasphemy laws designed to execute other religious minorities on a whim? These guys will be minorities and will be looked like that. Fking dumb twats.

Edit: Sawman and Paki supporter is visiting India this Feb to "strengthen ties"
https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...rengthen-ties-saudi-envoy/article26296819.ece
 
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That is what people tend to do when they are oppressed and cornered. They turn to whoever they can get help from. It also doesn't help that 80% of the population of Kashmir were Muslims even back in 1947. The accession of Kashmir to India was for the most part a temporary arrangement of a King trying to protect his power and wealth over protecting the people. Read the terms of the Accession.

India managed to annex Kashmir with a promise of protection and driving out insurgents, but failed miserably at protecting the people as apparent from the massacre of the Kashmiri Pandit's. This lead to an exodus of Kashmiri Hindus to other parts of India, but in general were met with hostility and alienation which is still better than getting killed in a political war that they had nothing to do with. Kashmir was essentially destroyed because of the greed of one king and two countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Kashmir_conflict
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kashmir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_of_Accession_(Jammu_and_Kashmir)

Ranbir Singh's grandson Hari Singh, who had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925, was the reigning monarch in 1947 at the conclusion of British rule of the subcontinent and the subsequent partition of the British Indian Empire into the newly independent Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. An internal revolt began in the Poonch region against oppressive taxation by the Maharaja.[77] In August, Maharaja's forces fired upon demonstrations in favour of Kashmir joining Pakistan, burned whole villages and massacred innocent people.[78] The Poonch rebels declared an independent government of "Azad" Kashmir on 24 October.[79]Rulers of Princely States were encouraged to accede their States to either Dominion – India or Pakistan, taking into account factors such as geographical contiguity and the wishes of their people. In 1947, Kashmir's population was "77% Muslim and 20% Hindu".[80] To postpone making a hurried decision, the Maharaja signed a standstill agreement with Pakistan, which ensured continuity of trade, travel, communication, and similar services between the two. Such an agreement was pending with India.[81] Following huge riots in Jammu, in October 1947, Pashtuns from Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province recruited by the Poonch rebels, invaded Kashmir, along with the Poonch rebels, allegedly incensed by the atrocities against fellow Muslims in Poonch and Jammu. The tribesmen engaged in looting and killing along the way.[82][83] The ostensible aim of the guerilla campaign was to frighten Hari Singh into submission. Instead the Maharaja appealed to the Government of India for assistance, and the Governor-General Lord Mountbatten[c] agreed on the condition that the ruler accede to India.[80] Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state. India accepted the accession, regarding it provisional[84] until such time as the will of the people can be ascertained. Kashmir leader Sheikh Abdullah endorsed the accession as ad-hoc which would be ultimately decided by the people of the State. He was appointed the head of the emergency administration by the Maharaja.[85] The Pakistani government immediately contested the accession, suggesting that it was fraudulent, that the Maharaja acted under duress and that he had no right to sign an agreement with India when the standstill agreement with Pakistan was still in force.
 
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Nikita pulled military support for the Chinese by middle '56 when it became clear that Mao & him were not getting along. It's this point the thought arises why are we giving them nuclear help :banghead:

The Chinese had to do the rest of the work till they tested in '64. They had enough Russian help up to the mid-fifties to get things done.

in '69, the Russians didn't assume the Chinese could not hit them neither did the Americans when Kargil happened. We know this only because of hindsight. in his book, Musharaf admitted they didn't have the means to deliver those nukes. But Kargil was fought as if nukes were a possibility. Valid examplesof two nuclear power having a limited war.

Don't forget that tensions didn't subside with the Soviets after that clash, they intensified further. I find not much acknowledgement of this in Indian commentary. The Chinese weren't sure if they would see the rest of the 70s. Meaning the Russians were close to nuking them. We know this because Chinese started building nuclear shelters around Beijing expecting the worst.


Exactly, they are examples of a non-nuclear power fighting a nuclear one and that is to make a point :)

if war between nuclear powers is unlikely then shouldn't there be even less chance of a non-nuclear power fighting a nuclear one ?


Their tactical nukes are of limited use against Indian columns moving at them. Watch


NE had Chinese help as they perceived us as helping the Tibetans who had the CIA working with them. We had to bomb Aizawl or we'd lose it.

Point is insurgencies can be tamed as we did in the NE without ethnic cleansing. I don't think anyone disputes this. Remember the hot pursuit into Burma in 2015.

Btw, tianamen debace didn't halt the Chinese economy, it still continued at dbl digit rates because it wasn't the target. China & India had the same size economy in 1990. What allowed the Chinese to get past was the two digit growth rates for a couple of decades.

The most important fallout for China after Tianamen was the west stopped arms sales. That is major otherwise the Chinese would be a much more potent adversary to deal with.


Those are good numbers. We'll bleed them dry. As Patton said you don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by getting the other guy to die for his.

Unlike the 90's we have a fence and a much tighter grid. The Rashtriya rifles will be waiting for them.

They can throw all they want at us but they have to get their guys inside first.


Other than '71 none of our previous wars were ever allowed to reach their logical conclusions. I see the same thing happening again.

Our leverage right now is economic. They need an IMF bailout within the next six months to a year. We can add conditions for that loan. The Americans are listening. No IMF bailout then no loans from the WB, ADB either. That is their weakness.

Add the FATF on top where they are already greylisted for terror financing and they are in a tight corner. If they fail to meet the conditions to get out of the greylist they end up on the black list. Effectively become North Korea.

The next bit is getting Masod Azhar designated as a terrorist. We did that to hafez Saeed and LeT attacks on India effectively came to an end post 26-11. If we are successful same happens to JeM. But we need to work on the Chinese for that.

Not a single shot has to be fired :)


Join WAB and have at it.
This MO makes the most sense right now.

But a small answer has gone out from our end. 9 Paki troops were killed and 11 wounded in a Baluchistan attack which is where CPEC goes through.

I don't think that there's a conspiracy behind this attack like @Julian said but I am sure this issue will be hyped and used in votes to the maximum effect possible to drown out the other issues.Never confuse a regime with your country.
Remember we have seen such attacks on the CRPF in the past by Maoists.
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a-decade-of-maoist-ambushes/article18206688.ece

The order and all material support definitely came from Pakistan. Unlike our country where there's a single chain of command when it comes to foreign policy Pakistan has 3 groups with different agendas- ISI/Army/Government.

Remember how Musharraf kicked off Kargil to put the civilian government of Nawaz Sharif on the backfoot after Bajpayee's bus trip for peace.
 
We're not bombing anything, they've pulled their guys further back from the border. They've learned from our last adventure.

We are three months from the election. I have no clue what kinetic option the govt is going to use. I'm starting to think there is none. It will have to wait until after the elections.

If people say but Modi must do something, i will remind you people said the same thing after 26-11 too.

The fact is we are already working on them via non-military means and have been doing so for a few years now.
Modi and doval duo has best strategy for Pakistan and that country would finish and splinter off in due time .
Right now they have three enemies on all their borders screwing them
Iran
Afghan
India.
They can’t escape duo’s action.

IA and doval would effectively finish them.all we need to do is trust their leadership and vote Modi ji back to power.[DOUBLEPOST=1550477105][/DOUBLEPOST]Just check twit of Pakistan state bank.
They have been reduced to begging bowl and nothing else.

When was last time you heard any state bank twitting about receiving 1 billion usd ?
 
Modi and doval duo has best strategy for Pakistan and that country would finish and splinter off in due time .
Right now they have three enemies on all their borders screwing them
Iran
Afghan
India.
They can’t escape duo’s action.

IA and doval would effectively finish them.all we need to do is trust their leadership and vote Modi ji back to power.[DOUBLEPOST=1550477105][/DOUBLEPOST]Just check twit of Pakistan state bank.
They have been reduced to begging bowl and nothing else.

When was last time you heard any state bank twitting about receiving 1 billion usd ?
A splintered and collapsed Pakistan is not at all good for us.
Where do you think the nukes will go?
They will fall into the hands of some Allahu-Akbar f**ktards who will never care twice about wiping out cities full of infidels as long as they get a pre-release of 40 virgins.

Yet another Indian who jumps in head-first without thinking of the long-term consequences.:(

The only thing we can do is keep up the pressure on Pakistan which needs a finer aspect of political maneuvering at the international level and fix Kashmir issue internally without throwing more guns and more troops at them which has been counter-productive so far.

Kashmiris need to be spread out elsewhere and Article 370 needs to be revoked.
 
Those Crown Jewels are already under control of Uncle Sam.
Their has been effective strategy in place due to taliban and Pakistan close business.
We do not need to worry about Pakistan’s clown jewels.

Do read up about American control of paki clowns.
 
Those Crown Jewels are already under control of Uncle Sam.
Their has been effective strategy in place due to taliban and Pakistan close business.
We do not need to worry about Pakistan’s clown jewels.

Do read up about American control of paki clowns.
You really think if Pakistani command and control collapses the US will have any modicum of control over the nukes?
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/t...-pakistans-nuclear-weapons-should-truly-26031
https://www.nti.org/gsn/article/the-pentagons-secret-plans-to-secure-pakistans-nuclear-arsenal/

That control works for now but even the US is not always sure with Pakistan. Moreover Pakistan is moving towards China as their sugar daddy as US is not giving away freebies anymore after they pulled out of Afghanistan.

China won't give a hoot about managing the nuclear arsenal. If India falters due to a terrorist nuclear attack with stolen Paki nukes they have much to gain and nothing to lose. The Wahabis don't care about China.

Call them "clowns" if that makes you happy but never underestimate your enemy. The people at the top branches of the Indian government don't pass them off as jokes no matter the rhetoric that is spewed out to keep you lot happy like mushrooms(Feed 'em shit and keep 'em in the dark)
 
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Your choice of sites is wrong and your info.is just like that.

National interest site is ndtv of USA.
I'll admit that they are not too well balanced but the surface level information is scary.

However nti.org is a much better source of information. If you go through the 2nd one you'll see the crap show thats the Pakistani nuclear arsenal.

Remember you need only one out of estimated 120-130 nukes to wipe out Mumbai or Delhi. Depending on the US to capture all nukes in the event of catastrophic failure is akin to a pie in the sky.

BTW do you care to share any sources for your information or is it only from your own fertile mind?
 
Remember you need only one out of estimated 120-130 nukes to wipe out Mumbai or Delhi. Depending on the US to capture all nukes in the event of catastrophic failure is akin to a pie in the sky.

The fact that people think that our national security can be left to the discretion of some other nation (one which is not even a ally of our country) while they indulge in knee jerk reactions says a lot about what people think of national security. The same people elect shit head politicians into power and those idiots will ultimately favor fueling the fire of those knee jerk reactions and feed them talking points for pointless chest thumping than focusing on practical security measures to prevent repetition. You can now understand why these incidents keep happening again and again.

Every major attack that happened in India could have been averted if not for the sheer negligence of the bureaucracy and not acting promptly on intelligence that was already available before hand. Even this particular incident was not a exception. There are enough minds that realized air lifting is a better choice than travel by roads to limit exposure of forces and presentations were made to argue that there no cost saving by traveling by road. Yet here we are with this incident.
 
I've always wondered about that. Kids, teens and adults are getting brainwashed or something that they want to join a failed country which is begging for money to stay alive and treats women and minorities miserably. What would make these people so delusional that they want to join a country that has blasphemy laws designed to execute other religious minorities on a whim? These guys will be minorities and will be looked like that. Fking dumb twats.

Edit: Sawman and Paki supporter is visiting India this Feb to "strengthen ties"
https://www.thehindu.com/news/inter...rengthen-ties-saudi-envoy/article26296819.ece
Sawman indeed :D

Saudi Arabia is India’s fourth largest trading partner and the bilateral trade is worth $28 billion. The country supplies 20% of India’s crude oil and the Indian diaspora in Saudi Arabia is 20 million-strong.
Obvious typo. Should say 2 million i think

Proof reading tsk tsk
 
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last but not least, it shows great forum member’s mindset. “it is from your fertile mind “

our anti missile air defence is far better placed than worrying about random pakistani missile coming up on our city.

prithvi based AAD and all its variant are enough to stolen chinese missiles of pakistan.

s400 is also on its way so I am not worried about my country. it is safe in hands of modi ji.
 
A splintered and collapsed Pakistan is not at all good for us.
Where do you think the nukes will go?
They will fall into the hands of some Allahu-Akbar f**ktards who will never care twice about wiping out cities full of infidels as long as they get a pre-release of 40 virgins.

Yet another Indian who jumps in head-first without thinking of the long-term consequences.:(
I think its a lie that a stable and prosperous Pakistan is in our interest.

A stable and prosperous Pakistan that does not have the military making foreign policy would be a different proposition.

The next lie is the nukes will fall into the wrong hands. If they do the first casualty will be the Pak military. For reasons of pride and honour they will never allow that to happen.

The problem with a splintered Pakistan is we must not have to accommodate 80 million refugees. The trick is to keep their people bottled up there.

The only thing we can do is keep up the pressure on Pakistan which needs a finer aspect of political maneuvering at the international level and fix Kashmir issue internally without throwing more guns and more troops at them which has been counter-productive so far.

Kashmiris need to be spread out elsewhere and Article 370 needs to be revoked.
I don't know why this govt has dragged its feet on 370. Maybe they fear the backlash. This is why no govt wants to try. Which means the status quo continues with everyone making something one way or another from a conflict economy. Vested interests build up on all sides to keep things as is.[DOUBLEPOST=1550495948][/DOUBLEPOST]
would have shared a lot but it’s all online and google is all you need my friend.
Give some links though
 
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