Market Feedback Rahul ITWares - RMA Policy - Is this same for all?

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chiragsthakur said:
Will refrain from comments too, but if MODs dont take legit action, then theres no difference between Mods dealing with error by dealer and Government dealing with terrorists attack
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I think I said this before, but please have some patience.
 
Did anyone see this site? Does it belong to Rahul ?

www.itwares.com

An image from this website:

image002.gif
 
Sir, As far as i understand, is not enough the Manufacturer is not there in India nor is the service centers all service centers have their own rules that they follow and so do we.

What agreement conversation i had with Manufacturer is not important right, but why am i liable to work as per the warranty policies of him when he is not the one proving warranty in this case i am so i made the Rule that too years back on our site and it clearly says i will offer a Mutually agreeable value when something cannot be replaced.

Does not mean i have to buy something from other dealers and give (Will MSI Service center ever buy from EVGA dealer coz they don't have stock (NO STOCK AT ALL)) - I knw no stock cannot happen in MSI service center but this is just an imaginary scenario taken by me as that is whats happening here

If i had not got this rule of mutual understanding then fine but i do and it was put up years back on the site and is not something which i am making up right now

cranky said:
As far as I understand, this is not correct. Warranty terms may vary between sellers, but terms of a contract are null and void if they do not comply with law of the land, even if the buyer and seller perforce agree to those terms, stated or not.

And the law of land is very specific when it comes to sale of any product on which tax is paid (grey obviously is a different ballgame). You might want to consult a lawyer as my legal understanding ends here, but depreciation is not allowed under warranty.

The point is (going beyond the hate posts, which I think a mod should clean up as they add no value, and users should measure their responses - we're after all a community) is that you need to work out what the cost of selling your product is and be able to make a decent enough amount of money on the first sale to cover returns under warranty for the total lot over the warranty period.

Your point of paying duty and shipping twice is understood but unfortunately not appreciated as it sours the relationship you have with that buyer in particular and the public in general. Whereas you are looking at it from a unit basis (where you made a loss already) the expectation is you will look at it from a business point of view. And that is the bigger issue here, over and above the single transaction of a few hundred rupees.

Do note that a decent manufacturer will accept defectives for repair/replacement and give you stock or credit for the same. Having seen enough distribution-based businesses, it makes sense to stick with ethical manufacturers and with properly set up terms. If you've been shortsighted when setting up the contract for distribution, it's not right (legally as well) to penalise purchasers.

I'm not sure how you will settle this issue. I suggest you have the thread closed and post back once it is resolved. The important thing is to show effort and a positive outlook - the conversation now is one of rigidity and egos on both sides.

Good Luck to both of you :)

Edit: Just saw this:

You can make your own rules as long as they are not unethical business practices and are compliant with the legal laws in force at the time. This seems to be a bit of both - even if not intentional (and aimed at keeping prices down), or made simply on a cost plus business model which never actually works! As said earlier - this is a case of uncalculated risk which has come back to bite you. My suggestion: Take the hit and change your operating model a bit. Shorter warranty, higher prices or an honest conversation with a manufacturer, are all possible solutions. Don't worry about setting a precedent, because you already have and it's already not a good one.
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I read the thread from page 10 or so uptil 32 and it took me 5 and a half hours and the end result is

1) Wastage of my preceious time (though no one asked/forced me to read)
2) NEVER EVER BUY FROM RAHUL
3) RAHUL is really high on something more than just his arraogance.
4) NO CLUE wht the term warranty means anymore
5) Scared to buy any more products from the dealers or distributors.

All this just to save a mere 350 bucks....

Dude (rahul) u mention about ur terms and conditions, Have u ever heard that in the retail business the cusomer is always right???? If u even had hear that statement then by this stage u would have already sent him the product rather than just ruining urself more and more...

I am just glad I never bought anything from him besides the corsair pen drives...

Am sorry to post this but I think I had to. Now i will never post anything in this thread.
 
here you made biggest blunder in your marketing and the one with which you will suffer for long time.

You have a very very big public disaster fiasco on your hand and more than that you are still not budging off from your stance.

the tool which you used to come up ,its same thing which is going to take you down.

sorry to see all this tamasha and cant help feeling bad for OP to suffer this and rahul for what he has done.
 
Has pratikb banned just because he posted after a mod asked him not to post in this thread or is there another reason? Rahul why don't you give a credit note for Full Amount and close this issue as it involves just 1 customer.

Also if you want after clearing this issue you can make a new thread stating your new RMA policy including Rental charges/Depreciation?
 
There is no logic why Pratik has been banned..He was also trying to get OP what OP deserves and what we all are doing is the same...
 
@Chirag
Responsible people out here will do the needful soon. Everybody here understands what you want to say. We all want the same. No point repeating same things again. So brother, Please chill for now. :) It'd be really appreciated. TIA.
 
Sir, As far as i understand, is not enough the Manufacturer is not there in India nor is the service centers all service centers have their own rules that they follow and so do we.
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Rahul,

Imported products sold in Indian Rupee are governed exactly the same way as those manufactured and sold within the country. Country of origin has nothing to do with the rules governing the sale and warranty of the product. Do note that you are allowed to sell any product without any warranty at all even with a VAT bill. The bill and warranty are mutually exclusive terms.

And yes, if there is no global manufacturer warranty you are free to make up your own warranty terms but (and this is important) the warranty you offer in spirit and letter must be compliant with laws of the land. Depreciation is not allowed if you have warranted the product and have judged no mishandling takes place.

Look if you buy a car the market value of the car depreciates. But not the warranty value. If you have an accident the repair parts are charged keeping depreciation in mind (glass 0%, plastic 50% etc). But if the engine blows due to a manufacturer defect, the entire engine is replaced or repaired at manufacturer cost. Customer is not charged for it.

Existing business practice as may be prevalent does not exclude you from warranty liability. It is fair that buyer and seller may agree to terms that are not completely in line with the law. In a court, that agreement is worth nothing. I'm not suggesting you're making up warranty terms as you go along - I'm sure it's there on your site as well (I haven't checked) but it's not a valid agreement :)

The trouble is that almost every person in this (your) business is (and don't take this the wrong way) not fully grounded in the legalities of running a business as the origin of these kind of business have been in trading rather than branding and customer relationship. This is not a snide comment, as the phenomenon is new and it's just an observation. Having a site online and a B&M is not enough - people need to be dealt with, with all the issues and problems that come with it.

The transition from a store to a community is not easy to understand even for brand and social media professionals such as me. However, I can tell you that being aggressive to the community that forms your customer base is not the best way of building traction in that community. It may not be of sufficient importance to you, and that is fine. You could probably do without the dealership - and my earlier interactions with you indicate that your business does not depend critically on this forum or any other. However even separation can be amicable.

Now.

If you have no stock of the product in question offer a credit note for full value (my opinion), or replace with a higher product after offering full value credit. You will lose margin on the second product and it will take you a bit of catching up to make back the two values, but you will be more careful about setting up terms. There is no cost you can put to learning how to do business, and in my mind the amount is very small. Customers will always be unreasonable. I have seen this in many businesses over my working life, and this is true. As a businessman, my job is to ensure they stay happy and I still end up making money. This is not an easy task, but what is easy is to understand that a bunch of people angry at you and writing about it where thousands of people can see it it not really a great thing for any business.

The buyer has several options - he can accept, refuse on moral grounds, refuse to back off, or drag it into a legal system. The forum can actually do nothing except persuade and make you see sense (I'm not sure banning a dealer is any solution). I do hope you realise this is a PR disaster for you, but it's still possible to turn it around if you juggle the numbers a bit and look at the bigger picture. I understand it is money, but sometimes some things are more important to run a business.

I leave it to your discretion and business sense.
 
Sir my rules are simple and are stated before hand on my site its not like i came up with this right now

How can u say that just coz some brands service centers or some companies give you full refund, if they have no stock for the same we too have to do so, it is not true for us because the same was stated on our site, and yes not told to any customer in specific because we cannot practically do so it is clearly written on our site what will happen if we don't have something in stock.

The way you guys say it, just coz 2 other companies gave 2 customers here lower value CN you cannot do so, same thing i am saying if 2 other companies have the policy to give u full refund when they don't have the same in stock, we are also not liable to follow the same ad the same is written beforehand on our site.

Roxtin said:
Has pratikb banned just because he posted after a mod asked him not to post in this thread or is there another reason? Rahul why don't you give a credit note for Full Amount and close this issue as it involves just 1 customer.

Also if you want after clearing this issue you can make a new thread stating your new RMA policy including Rental charges/Depreciation?
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--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Sir my warranty stays exactly the same as you all say the way warranty should be until we have the same parts are there in stock with us but say tomm we don't have them and do not plan to buy/import them anymore, then we will not be liable to pay the Full Amount or anything like that we will be liable to pay a mutually accepted value here customer was not accepting the Value that we offered so we asked how much u guys think it should fetch the answer was 600/- and we are ready to pay that, i have the power to decide warranty terms and they are set Before Hand (In online business its as good as i told the buyer i will do this before hand if anything like this happens) so i am not cheating anyone

Also its not like i am claiming the warranty of the same and making more money, coz i am ready to give it back to the customer also.

cranky said:
Rahul,

Imported products sold in Indian Rupee are governed exactly the same way as those manufactured and sold within the country. Country of origin has nothing to do with the rules governing the sale and warranty of the product. Do note that you are allowed to sell any product without any warranty at all even with a VAT bill. The bill and warranty are mutually exclusive terms.

And yes, if there is no global manufacturer warranty you are free to make up your own warranty terms but (and this is important) the warranty you offer in spirit and letter must be compliant with laws of the land. Depreciation is not allowed if you have warranted the product and have judged no mishandling takes place.

Look if you buy a car the market value of the car depreciates. But not the warranty value. If you have an accident the repair parts are charged keeping depreciation in mind (glass 0%, plastic 50% etc). But if the engine blows due to a manufacturer defect, the entire engine is replaced or repaired at manufacturer cost. Customer is not charged for it.

Existing business practice as may be prevalent does not exclude you from warranty liability. It is fair that buyer and seller may agree to terms that are not completely in line with the law. In a court, that agreement is worth nothing. I'm not suggesting you're making up warranty terms as you go along - I'm sure it's there on your site as well (I haven't checked) but it's not a valid agreement :)

The trouble is that almost every person in this (your) business is (and don't take this the wrong way) not fully grounded in the legalities of running a business as the origin of these kind of business have been in trading rather than branding and customer relationship. This is not a snide comment, as the phenomenon is new and it's just an observation. Having a site online and a B&M is not enough - people need to be dealt with, with all the issues and problems that come with it.

The transition from a store to a community is not easy to understand even for brand and social media professionals such as me. However, I can tell you that being aggressive to the community that forms your customer base is not the best way of building traction in that community. It may not be of sufficient importance to you, and that is fine. You could probably do without the dealership - and my earlier interactions with you indicate that your business does not depend critically on this forum or any other. However even separation can be amicable.

Now.

If you have no stock of the product in question offer a credit note for full value (my opinion), or replace with a higher product after offering full value credit. You will lose margin on the second product and it will take you a bit of catching up to make back the two values, but you will be more careful about setting up terms. There is no cost you can put to learning how to do business, and in my mind the amount is very small. Customers will always be unreasonable. I have seen this in many businesses over my working life, and this is true. As a businessman, my job is to ensure they stay happy and I still end up making money. This is not an easy task, but what is easy is to understand that a bunch of people angry at you and writing about it where thousands of people can see it it not really a great thing for any business.

The buyer has several options - he can accept, refuse on moral grounds, refuse to back off, or drag it into a legal system. The forum can actually do nothing except persuade and make you see sense (I'm not sure banning a dealer is any solution). I do hope you realise this is a PR disaster for you, but it's still possible to turn it around if you juggle the numbers a bit and look at the bigger picture. I understand it is money, but sometimes some things are more important to run a business.

I leave it to your discretion and business sense.
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but say tomm we don't have them and do not plan to buy/import them anymore, then we will not be liable to pay the Full Amount or anything like that
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Unfortunately, this is not your call or a decision you can unilaterally take. If you have offered a warranty to start with you have to offer it for the entire period. If you cannot offer a replacement, you have to provide credit. This is the (I think) the law. Your decision to stop importing does not mean you can leave customers in the lurch when things go wrong for them. And yes, if the customer is to sell the product again (obviously through an unofficial sales channel) he will only get a certain value lower than what he bought them for. But you as the official sales channel cannot take advantage of that knowledge.

I'm not for a minute suggesting you're trying to cheat intentionally. You're trying to protect your business interest by safeguarding yourself from future claims made on the basis of this thread. But this is proving completely counterproductive, as you can see. As I see it, from a business point of view you've made two mistakes - offer a warranty and not honour it, and get drawn into a protracted and damaging battle.

I will leave it to you now, as I have expressed my point of view clearly earlier. Good Luck with whatever you choose to do!
 
@All.

People are getting banned. Please stop taking this issue like that. Cool off. I am ready to suffer the lose.

I will not, REPEAT WONT, give into this cheat's conditions. If this much people are saying I am correct, I know for a fact, then I am correct and he is wrong.

I wanted people to know about this issue, and dear God it was made aware more than i could ever imagined.

I know this means that people like this will cheat you also tmrw. As he already said some previous posts, if he does this for me, its applicable to all. He doesnt want that.

Understand this is kinda fueling the fire. but I wasnt expecting anything yesterday evening, why start now?

Let this thread die. You guys support is more than that fraud's 1000. and this from a guy who never backed off for a 100rs. :D

@staff.

I am not asking you of anything. really not. Just dont delete this thread. If possible sticky it. But as one of the mods said to me, not possible. but u cant have all i guess.

Close this if u want as nothing is going to come off it. Just let it be a reminder to all.

I was happy with that local shop's sony and philips earphones. Then came forums, and dealers and newer brands. Just got into head. I accept that. :).

@rahul.

I have said my conditions. That can be again agreed by you. Nothing else.

Or

Keep the bloody excuse, 400 or 600rs. I dont want you charity. I am doing a favor to you. I demanded my 50rs, but your so cheap and you wont even return that.

You are going to use that to send my dud ones back. All my lose r8?.

I promise to you, I will never stop spreading this word. Not this year, not next year, Never. You better believe when i say this.
 
Sir EOD it is my business whatever happens to it is all coz of my decisions so i will bear it. I not dealing with SM is also my choice and is just the reason for us not having the same in stock we are not saying we will not offer warranty because oif that, As you said we are offering Credit (So warranty is being provided) but the amount of credit offered by us is ruled according to what is written beforehand on our site.

I am not even said that whatever i have offered is what you will get period take it or leave it, when the same thing came up we went ahead and agreed on offering Rs. 600/- instead.

cranky said:
Unfortunately, this is not your call or a decision you can unilaterally take. If you have offered a warranty to start with you have to offer it for the entire period. If you cannot offer a replacement, you have to provide credit. This is the (I think) the law. Your decision to stop importing does not mean you can leave customers in the lurch when things go wrong for them. And yes, if the customer is to sell the product again (obviously through an unofficial sales channel) he will only get a certain value lower than what he bought them for. But you as the official sales channel cannot take advantage of that knowledge.

I'm not for a minute suggesting you're trying to cheat intentionally. You're trying to protect your business interest by safeguarding yourself from future claims made on the basis of this thread. But this is proving completely counterproductive, as you can see. As I see it, from a business point of view you've made two mistakes - offer a warranty and not honour it, and get drawn into a protracted and damaging battle.

I will leave it to you now, as I have expressed my point of view clearly earlier. Good Luck with whatever you choose to do!
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actually credit note is not there to provide the full refund @ which the product has been bought, the amount decided for the credit note is concluded on the basis of the usage time, please DO NOT accuse Rahul for this, it works as it is.

But credit note stuff should be only provided when the both the seller and consumer agrees @ a mutual amount, on the other hand, ITWares can provide some more options to m-jeri like providing him the same sound-stage derivatives or any other discounts.

NOTE: M not supporting any1, neither m-jeri and nor itwares. btw Rahul you can just e-recharge his cell phone number for the stated 50rs which he deserves.
 
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