Random DAC/Amp Thread!!

@siddharth.beam You could try rolling the opamps to get a more desired sound. Different opamps will give you a different sound signature. You can get more details here http://www.head-fi.org/t/421890/the-xonar-essence-stx-q-a-tweaking-impressions-thread. The sound signature of the Essence STX is neutral to my ears. What sounds neutral to me could be warm to someone coming from a brighter sounding dac so its totally subjective. Pairing it with something like a solid state amp(rule of thumb being that solid state amps are a tad brighter than tube amps) could get you some improvements on the bass extension and opening the sound up a bit.

Maybe the kinda sound your looking for is more like an HD600 rather than a HD650. HD600 is less thicker and more brighter sounding. Both are pretty detailed, why your not finding it detailed could be because of the kind of files or the song recording itself.

I haven't had a chance to compare my Xonar stx with the fiio e17 since the E17 was meant for my office and I've never taken it home with me. I'll post a comparison later when I do so. The Xonar stx over the top of my head is more capable of driving demanding headphones like my HD600. Don't get me wrong, the E17 is very very powerful, the most powerful portable dac/amp i've heard. But the xonar stx has more authority even at high volumes on all gain modes.
 
Make sure you change the gain to 300-600 ohms / high gain mode from the Asus Essence control panel
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Now i think it was set to 64 to 300 ohms it sound much better compared to earlier Hp setting . but i want more . on same sound sig but little bit thin & every think much bigger .
 
If I am right, I am guessing you need an entirely different signature - Bright, fast, resolving, detailed, good sound stage. HD650 is supposed to be thick sounding, which I believe is the charm of that headphone. Also, I've read over in headfonia that HD650 would improve far better with high-end amps. If you have the chance to try out dedicated, powerful headphone amps with HD650, perhaps you can make a decision on that. I am still thinking that you are better off with a different kind of a headphone though.

Perhaps, SRH940? here's a comparison between HD650 and SRH940. I am not knowledgeable about headphones, so a few others might help you there.
 
Believe it or not, but unamped I would rate the headphones in the following order M50 > HD25-1 II > HD600 > HD650 and exactly in the reverse order if properly amped.
 
bennysachdev said:
Believe it or not, but unamped I would rate the headphones in the following order M50 > HD25-1 II > HD600 > HD650 and exactly in the reverse order if properly amped.
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So what do u mean by properly amp what its mean to be properly amp for Hd650 & which device can properly amp hd650 & what u use for properly amping ur cans(hd600 or hd25 or any other hp which need amping.
 
Let me elaborate a bit on that just to avoid any confusion. Driven straight outta an ipod or your regular run of the mill pmp, the M50 sounds more fuller and better on both ends of the spectrum than the HD25/600/650. The M50 has a fun sound signature and is not as smooth or luscious as the HD600/650 and it delivers that perfectly sans a dedicated amplifier.

The HD600/650(lets keep the hd25 aside for a moment as it lies in the middle of these two segments) sounds 'Unexciting' when driven straight from a pmp. But what they do, and they do really well is that they scale up really well when you connect the same headphone with a really good dac/amp. Between the xonar stx and the xonar stx -> Burson HA160(when I did own the burson for around a month before I sold it off to fund for my other vices), I would say I did not really notice a night and day difference between the two setups (KIV that the xonar stx from what I feel has a decent amp section, people who have heard much better will disagree with me on this) other than the obvious volume boost. Maybe since I was double amping and I was also having some issues with the xonar stx since I was able to hear some noise caused when the hard drive was spinning. I did reduce the problem by ensuring that the xonar stx gets a dedicated power line straight from the PSU and not be shared with the one connecting to any of my hard drives. But the problem was still there. It could also be that I have four hdds too many and that my not so good PSU isn't able to keep up with it.

I guess that is why true audiophiles never go for sound cards but rather an external dac. Cleaner Dedicated Power! Needless to say that the HD600/650 sounded much much fuller and more controlled throughout the spectrum compared to an unamped rig. The difference between amped and unamped is night and day
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But the same cannot be observed with the M50. With the HD25, even my fiio e17 does a remarkable job of driving them really well.

But then again, the problem your facing is not really the amp since the xonar stx is doing a decent job. Getting a dedicated amp will unlock the last level of potential of the HD650. But if you don't like the sound signature right away, getting an amp won't fix your problem. Esanthosh is right, you should look at another headphone altogether.
 
I took pity on the dust gathering headphone setup and decided to try it in between power cuts.

I set all outputs to 50% volume on Windows 7 control Panel (Essence STX (Speakers), Essence STX (SPDIF) and Realtek (Optical)). I set all of them to output 24/96. I set foobar to output 24-bit in all Outputs and then set foobar at maximum volume (Is that OK? Or should I keep foobar low and Windows output level higher?)

The connections used were
  • STX : SPDIF -> Audioquest VDM-A Digital cable -> DacMini CX Coax In
  • STX: RCA Out -> Dacmini CX Line In

Rest of the chain is common :: DacMini CX RCA Out -> Blue Jeans Cable -> Burson HA-160 -> DT880

I used WASAPI drivers for both. But DacMini CX's output (Coax and Optical) was much louder requiring only about 9-10'o clock, whereas STX (Line in DacMini) required 11-12'o clock on the Burson. Before finalizing on these settings, there was a point where DacMini CX was really irritable and dynamically compressed. But, matching all three output settings restored some sanity.

I hope this can qualify as a comparison under 'similar testing conditions'. Did I miss/overlook anything (else)?

I am not sure about this, but in a brief switch between Optical and Coax inputs of DacMini, Coax sounded a little better. But that was not my main purpose.

I went back and forth between STX and DacMini using one track I know well - Opeth's 'The Drapery falls' from Blackwater Park. I would have loved to try different genres, but time did not permit. Both can be said to be 'neutral', but DacMini has a more warmish tone, while STX has a neutral tone to the overall sound. While I did not do bass vs bass kind of comparison, my general feeling is that DacMini is better. Coming from STX, details are much more apparent with DacMini CX. It has good weight and texture to the sound next to the lean sounding STX. Resolution is also better as I could pick up variations in the death growl portion of the track more easily with DacMini and this would be true of other parts of the spectrum as well (drums and cymbals). Mid range in STX is placed a lot behind compared to DacMini. STX is still airier though! (my one big gripe with DacMini).

Close to 8:00 in the song ("Spiralling to the ground below, Like Autumn leaves left in the wake to fade away"), the vocals and guitars in this portion sounded much more up front in the STX than the DacMini - too in your face for my liking. But, STX reproduced the 'fade away' portion (like his voice fades away into a distance) a little better than the DacMini.

In short, DacMini CX sounds better due to it's warmth, weight and the better ability to pick up details. I'd like to repeat this comparison with various genres, different headphones and a few casual listening sessions to evaluate if I can boot out STX and MS2. But, if this is indeed the big difference between a $150 sound card and a $800 DAC, I wonder how much I need to spend to get a DAC that does things to my complete satisfaction. Fact is I somewhat like DacMini and clearly prefer it to STX and MS2 based on one comparison session each, but I am yet to reach a point where I love it. If I end up only 'liking' it even after sometime, will at least $1000-2000 DACs be my 'end game' DAC or would I feel a little short of the goal there too? That is the big question on my mind.
 
esanthosh said:
I set all outputs to 50% volume on Windows 7 control Panel (Essence STX (Speakers), Essence STX (SPDIF) and Realtek (Optical)). I set all of them to output 24/96. I set foobar to output 24-bit in all Outputs and then set foobar at maximum volume (Is that OK? Or should I keep foobar low and Windows output level higher?)
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The "recommended" way for volume control is to always have all digital outputs at 100% (I guess that should include volumes on Foobar, Xonar Control Panel, & Windows Volume) and to have the analogue controls on amplifiers to actually control the volume. The reason to keep digital at 100% is that lowering the digital volume also apparently also reduces bit-depth, while the analogue control will only impact the volume.

esanthosh said:
If I end up only 'liking' it even after sometime, will at least $1000-2000 DACs be my 'end game' DAC or would I feel a little short of the goal there too? That is the big question on my mind.
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I don't think you'll actually see much difference in that price range, except maybe for deliberate colouration
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. The one DAC I think worthy at that range is the Benchmark DAC 1. I've been much more taken with it after NwAwGuy used it as his reference
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For any actual technical improvement, I think you'll need systems that generate their own clock ("world clock") to reduce jitter. These aren't cheap. The dCS systems that have such functionality are $7000+. And again, there's the question of how much this improvement is audible
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^Ya, 100% for all digital outputs should be the general norm. What this assumes is that you have a pretty decent analog volume control in your amp/dac(Burson uses a stepped attenuator iirc,so that should be fine).

Setting the output bit-depth to 24 for 16bit source material does give you a bit of headroom(48dB theoretically) for lowering digital outputs so you could use replaygain & maybe minor volume adjustments but its preferable to avoid too much of digital attenuation.
 
Thanks #[member='Gryph0n'] and #[member='titana']. Will try it tonight.

Gryph0n said:
I don't think you'll actually see much difference in that price range, except maybe for deliberate colouration
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. The one DAC I think worthy at that range is the Benchmark DAC 1. I've been much more taken with it after NwAwGuy used it as his reference
ohyeah.gif


For any actual technical improvement, I think you'll need systems that generate their own clock ("world clock") to reduce jitter. These aren't cheap. The dCS systems that have such functionality are $7000+. And again, there's the question of how much this improvement is audible
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You mean the 'Word clock'? Interesting because I am not paranoid about jitter so far. But, your comment led to searching which in turn led to finding some interesting discussions.

If I worry about jitter, Audiolab M-DAC with it's own power supply and 24/192 transport could be a cheaper option. The upcoming transport will be clock locked to MDAC. It's designer John Westlake has a few posts about them. Interestingly many seem to use USB Isolators with M-DAC, even John mentions it. Has anybody here tried a USB Isolator?

Anyways, I am not looking for an upgrade exactly, but something more suitable for my tastes. If I could derive that out of DacMini at some stage, I'd be more than happy to keep it. It does few things just the way I want, but not everything. I have my eyes set on Anedio D2 which they say is one of the best in that price range. But, I'd be better off upgrading to some better headphone / custom IEM first. If I go the NOS way, there's Metrum Acoustics Octave, which should be cheaper. Plenty of options! But, all I can do now is just relax, sit, read a lot, ask around and weigh in the options because my wallet is not that fat right now
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PS: Then there's Stax. Wish I had the money for this!
 
@ esanthosh : I would recommend you a headphone upgrade before a source upgrade at this stage.

That said, my DAC upgrade has been a clear step-up over the Xonar STX. I didn't even have to A/B between them to spot the differences.
 
Sorry for hijacking this thread
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Few days ago I have bought Fiio E7 from #[member='PristineNote'] and I'm enjoying it
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.. I am using it with laptop and my Nokia N8 using USB OTG cable and it is awesome
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. Currently I'm using it with my SoundMagic PL-21, The sound quality is awesome but I'm feeling like the bass is little less. Could any body suggest which IEM sounds better with Fiio E7. I am not a bass head but I like tight and controlled bass. Budget is 3-4k. Thanks
 
titana said:
@ esanthosh : I would recommend you a headphone upgrade before a source upgrade at this stage.

That said, my DAC upgrade has been a clear step-up over the Xonar STX. I didn't even have to A/B between them to spot the differences.
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Hmm. I guess you've trained your ears well. Just curious, what DAC are you using now ?

Me, in a blind test, I think I would be hard put to tell the difference between Onboard, Xonar DX, and Xonar STX. I do really wish I could have done this blind test. Sadly, my onboard died a long time ago, and the Asus drivers will not let me use both the DX & STX in the same PC.

krisballa said:
Sorry for hijacking this thread
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Few days ago I have bought Fiio E7 from #[member='PristineNote'] and I'm enjoying it
happy19.gif
.. I am using it with laptop and my Nokia N8 using USB OTG cable and it is awesome
happy19.gif
. Currently I'm using it with my SoundMagic PL-21, The sound quality is awesome but I'm feeling like the bass is little less. Could any body suggest which IEM sounds better with Fiio E7. I am not a bass head but I like tight and controlled bass. Budget is 3-4k. Thanks
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BrainWavz M2 seems to recommended for its bass. I have the BrainWavz M3 with me (Its half dead now) which is a bit more balanced, having the ability to go down when the source has bass, but not 'bassy' in general.
 
titana said:
@ esanthosh : I would recommend you a headphone upgrade before a source upgrade at this stage.

That said, my DAC upgrade has been a clear step-up over the Xonar STX. I didn't even have to A/B between them to spot the differences.
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Yep! That's what I am thinking too.

Actually, I am not as familiar with either STX or MS2, which is why I needed an A:B. They are just another couple of items that lay mostly unused
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titana said:
Ever considered the Stax IEM ?
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Frankly, haven't thought of them at all.

Aren't there only two models? Baby Stax and SR-003? SR-003 combo is listed at $675 at elusivedisc and SR-001 MK2, the portable version with amp lists at $350.

On SR-001MK2 (Baby Stax), Mike @ Headfonia commented...

The Stax is basically an electrostatic sound in the form of an IEM. But don't expect much in terms of detail, extension, bass, soundstage imaging and such. It had a sweet midrange and is quite open sounding due to the open design though. It's one of those things that are nice and interesting to own, but definitely not strong enough to stay as main earphone. In fact I'll still take the ER4 over it, and I think most of the local baby Stax owners have gone back to the ER4 now. (to think that it was once dubbed the ultimate upgrade for ER4 owners -- or something like that).
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May be it's an interesting choice to consider considering the cost higher end Stax go at. Oh! Look what have you done to my imaginary wallet
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I ha

Gryph0n said:
Hmm. I guess you've trained your ears well. Just curious, what DAC are you using now ?
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I guess I was just more familiar with the STX having used it exclusively as a source for past couple of years.

I am currently using a modded Adcom GDA-600 as my DAC. Its an old 13 lbs. beast with beefy power supply(two transformers), R2R DACs per channel & with Class A biased opamp out put stage.

@ Esanthosh : I have never really read up on IEMs since they never fit my ears but I do come across a lot of people who have lot experience with planars & most of them had good things to say about stax IEMs except that they might be too big for some people who may have fit issues.

BTW, its cheaper here
 
Looks like no one is Arcam fan here. After tyring various combos in my home audio system, I came back to rDAC and I am of the opinion that its the best DAC in and around 600USD.
 
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