Reggae in colleges.

[OinkBoink]

This seniority crap extends further in life too. Just a few days back one of my friends who's doing his M.Tech told me about his teacher who was asking one of his friends to do some of her Ph.D coursework. Else she threatened to cut his marks. He went and complained and the problem was sorted out. But would this teacher not harbour a grudge against the student? She very likely would.

Even in research you see research advisors add their name onto research publications where most of the work, if not all, was done by their students. This is tantamount to research fraud really.

 

[dexBG]

This seniority crap extends further in life too. Just a few days back one of my friends who's doing his M.Tech told me about his teacher who was asking one of his friends to do some of her Ph.D coursework. Else she threatened to cut his marks. He went and complained and the problem was sorted out. But would this teacher not harbour a grudge against the student? She very likely would.

Even in research you see research advisors add their name onto research publications where most of the work, if not all, was done by their students. This is tantamount to research fraud really.

How is this related to ragging .. or seniority ..
A teacher forcing a student to to his/her research is utterly wrong .. no matter the situation.

 

[rdst_1]

I am guessing the way you guys were asked for 'intros' was very different than i was asked. I wasn't ganged up on by bunch of thugs in a dark alley. Most of the times it was only 1 senior at a time. At max there were 3.

If any of you guys have undergone training for any of the IT companies, you will see that almost all of them have these 'intro sessions' where people are expected to speak about themselves for a minute or two.

Our seniors, were never rough or jeering when they used to take an intro. They were genuinely interested. It was a small hostel and there were hardly any cases of fighting against each other. The atmosphere was great and nearly everybody knew each other by their names.

I personally have seen worse ragging at workplaces than at my college. Yes, they don't ask you to dance or embarrass yourself at the workplace. But what they do is even worse in my eyes. Just because the ratings are in their hands, I have seen so many team leads take advantage of that. They do nothing themselves and just pile up all the work on the freshers. This is really common in all 'development projects'.

#OinkBoink - My senior always used to partner with me(as in doubles) so that he could win. I was a national TT player and never lost at the hostel.

Yes, everyone has a right to not introduce them and yes there are always 'nutters' that will go berserk and cause harm to others, but that doesn't mean that everyone is like that.

I for one believe that introducing oneself is common courtesy. I imagine when people meet each other at TE meets, they introduce themselves to each other.

Has any of you been stopped by the police at night and asked where you are from, where you are off to, etc. I have been and I know for a fact that many are. What do you do then, Don't you answer their questions, or do you tell them that they don't have the right to question you like that.

I am not saying, ragging is right. What I am saying is not to make a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[asingh]

To recount my fresher year ..

1. yep, but nothing offensive.
2. Done - no harm in that, hometown is the first thing any senior wants to know especially if you're a hosteler.
3. Nope,
4. probed about a GF though.
5. Yep
6. kinda, as a Joke.
7. Was asked to "define engineering" .. some are genuinely interested in knowing what you're interested in or good at. (sports/arts/tech)
8. No
9. Yep (I picked Robert Frost) .. I was told stop after 3 lines
10. No ..

This was just the second day.

--

The various batches separated out because by the time our first year ended there was ZERO tolerance to any 'ragging' behavior including intros. Floor of juniors was off-limits with a guard posted there. different lunch times .. faulty would question us if they saw a junior nearby.

We had very no interaction with the day scholars, only hostelers. by the next year our juniors had even less interaction with their juniors .. and by another year .. it dropped further.

Yes .. for one it unites a particular batch. you get to know your fellow batchmates better and you watch each others back's .. In a new environment people generally tend to seek out their comfort zones .. and usually form tight small groups outside which they dont want to interact or trust .. with ragging everyone has a common situation to deal with and band together in larger numbers .. no one is cooler or smarter that then other when 20 are lined up by a senior .. despite what you've believed your entire school years. You have to rely on people with whom you would never have wanted interact ..

Well you seemed to have handled the itinerary quite well and decently. Not all can. And I hope you understand that not all come with the same bent of mind. Not everyone is pliable or ductile as the senior students would like them to be. That is where the problem starts. It creates a mental impact on the psyche of the person. It is degrading and humiliating. It was fine for you, but you really cannot exonerate the practice. And frankly speaking that is no way to ask information first hand from any one, be it college or work. It really does not make sense.

Is the college some type of army regime or an exercise in group building. Please. I know where you are coming from, cause I was told the same beautification points about the concept of ragging, and likely so believed them...! This happens (if it does); at a really late stage and by then it has all ready (or can); done the damage. People rush back home, weep to their parents on the phone, or loose focus from studies. Why are humans made to be homogenized in this manner, it is really an archaic and mentally disruptive method, I feel that. Banding should occur naturally, not in a synthetic manner. And to be honest, are the seniors actually ragging with this in mind. NO, they are doing it cause they went through the same rigor, and have developed a temper to partake the same on others. I think what happened in you institution was good, people were put in a silo, and prompted to do what they came for: study.

 

[OinkBoink]

How is this related to ragging .. or seniority ..
A teacher forcing a student to to his/her research is utterly wrong .. no matter the situation.

It is related to ragging in the sense that the core theme in both is the intimidation/control of a lower authority by a higher authority.

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#OinkBoink - My senior always used to partner with me(as in doubles) so that he could win. I was a national TT player and never lost at the hostel.

Yes, everyone has a right to not introduce them and yes there are always 'nutters' that will go berserk and cause harm to others, but that doesn't mean that everyone is like that.

I for one believe that introducing oneself is common courtesy. I imagine when people meet each other at TE meets, they introduce themselves to each other.

Has any of you been stopped by the police at night and asked where you are from, where you are off to, etc. I have been and I know for a fact that many are. What do you do then, Don't you answer their questions, or do you tell them that they don't have the right to question you like that.

I am not saying, ragging is right. What I am saying is not to make a mountain out of a molehill.

Are you equating the police with seniors ? It's your duty as a citizen to show the police your documents, answer their questions etc. What does this have to do with college going kids ?

It's hardly a molehill when you see what happens in many cases. It is very hard to demarcate between what constitutes as 'safe/viable/character building ragging' and what doesn't. We could discuss about it in theory all we want. But what happens in real life tends to be very different.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Never indulged in ragging and never let myself be a victim. Be it 2nd, 3rd or final years. Normal interaction and some jesting is fine, but I made it pretty clear in not so many words that I would make their life miserable if they ever tried to cross the limit.

 

[rdst_1]

What I am trying to say is that ragging is not only confined to colleges. It's just that there is a law against it so suddenly everything is tantamount to crime.

The example about the police is to show how the very same questions are asked. I have been asked my name, my address, what I did (as in a student or a professional), what my dad does, etc. at the nakas set up by the police to catch drunk drivers. Why isn't a law against that and why aren't people more vocal against that. In essence it is the same as ragging.

That is why I said before that I think the word 'ragging' is a misnomer or a glorified word for 'bullying'. Why does the law differentiate between bullying at colleges and bullying elsewhere.
Frankly speaking, my experience was good and hence you won't see me condemn these intro sessions.

 

[dexBG]

Well you seemed to have handled the itinerary quite well and decently. Not all can. And I hope you understand that not all come with the same bent of mind. Not everyone is pliable or ductile as the senior students would like them to be. That is where the problem starts. It creates a mental impact on the psyche of the person. It is degrading and humiliating. It was fine for you, but you really cannot exonerate the practice. And frankly speaking that is no way to ask information first hand from any one, be it college or work. It really does not make sense.

Is the college some type of army regime or an exercise in group building. Please. I know where you are coming from, cause I was told the same beautification points about the concept of ragging, and likely so believed them...! This happens (if it does); at a really late stage and by then it has all ready (or can); done the damage. People rush back home, weep to their parents on the phone, or loose focus from studies. Why are humans made to be homogenized in this manner, it is really an archaic and mentally disruptive method, I feel that. Banding should occur naturally, not in a synthetic manner. And to be honest, are the seniors actually ragging with this in mind. NO, they are doing it cause they went through the same rigor, and have developed a temper to partake the same on others. I think what happened in you institution was good, people were put in a silo, and prompted to do what they came for: study.

I never said it was fine for me then .. what I replied was my perspective looking back on it today. Yes not everyone has the same reaction .. there were 2 other guys with me who reacted quite "differently" ..
I must disagree .. being asked about your family/educational background/hometown is perfectly acceptable .. I'm not ashamed of who I am or where I'm from and despite what a senior might say it wont change a thing ..

Coddling someone through out life in no ways improves a persons personality either.

Despite what we want to believe that people can band together naturally out of good will .. it doesn't happen .. society at large today is a good example of that. You and I may differ on what is synthetic and what is natural bonding ..

Thats a very generalized statement which everyone says ..
People rag only because they have been ragged on .. One aspect I will admit to is that seniors can't coddle up juniors, they have to be strict like everyone else .. publicly a certain image has to be maintained ..

I can tell you impact of being prompted into silos .. we would hear fights breaking out between "groups" of first years over dinner & lunches .. all because they had an entire hostel wing to themselves and the tough ones declared themselves bosses .. the shy and meek ones were still tormented but by their peers instead ..

Our seniors would gladly pass down their old books and notes instead of selling them ..share their train ticket with you when your couldn't get one ..
its a relationship forged in uncomfortable circumstances but that's the reason its stronger and more natural.

 

[OinkBoink]

What I am trying to say is that ragging is not only confined to colleges. It's just that there is a law against it so suddenly everything is tantamount to crime.

The example about the police is to show how the very same questions are asked. I have been asked my name, my address, what I did (as in a student or a professional), what my dad does, etc. at the nakas set up by the police to catch drunk drivers. Why isn't a law against that and why aren't people more vocal against that. In essence it is the same as ragging.

That is why I said before that I think the word 'ragging' is a misnomer or a glorified word for 'bullying'. Why does the law differentiate between bullying at colleges and bullying elsewhere.
Frankly speaking, my experience was good and hence you won't see me condemn these intro sessions.

How hard is it to understand the difference between being asked questions by people who are trying to enforce the law and by random college kids ? How the hell is what the police is doing anything like ragging at all ? They are doing the job they're paid to do. Unless the police are bullying you in some way I don't see how it can be equated to ragging at all.

Also, there should be a law regarding ragging. And it must be enforced strictly.

You may have had fun but I know tons and tons of people who didn't.

 

[dexBG]

What I am trying to say is that ragging is not only confined to colleges. It's just that there is a law against it so suddenly everything is tantamount to crime.

The example about the police is to show how the very same questions are asked. I have been asked my name, my address, what I did (as in a student or a professional), what my dad does, etc. at the nakas set up by the police to catch drunk drivers. Why isn't a law against that and why aren't people more vocal against that. In essence it is the same as ragging.

That is why I said before that I think the word 'ragging' is a misnomer or a glorified word for 'bullying'. Why does the law differentiate between bullying at colleges and bullying elsewhere.
Frankly speaking, my experience was good and hence you won't see me condemn these intro sessions.

Yes .. Bullying is unacceptable .. the word ragging has taken that shape for general convenience ..
Lots of people get ragged but those who get (physically) bullied continuously resort to drastic steps .

 

[rdst_1]

How hard is it to understand the difference between being asked questions by people who are trying to enforce the law and by random college kids ? How the hell is what the police is doing anything like ragging at all ? They are doing the job they're paid to do. Unless the police are bullying you in some way I don't see how it can be equated to ragging at all.

Also, there should be a law regarding ragging. And it must be enforced strictly.

You may have had fun but I know tons and tons of people who didn't.

Tell me how does, 'where I live' and 'what my Dad does for a living' got anything to do with a naka set up for catching drunk drivers. Its my basic right to refuse to answer such questions. But everyone answers them so that the policeman doesn't harass them. So how is it any different than ragging.

 

[dexBG]

It is related to ragging in the sense that the core theme in both is the intimidation/control of a lower authority by a higher authority.

.

That's a very huge leap you have taken there.. unfairly using position and power to influence others is not ragging, if this is how you think then you need to learn a thing or two .. just because it happened in an academic instt. does automatically make it ragging.

Which is whats' weird .. ragging is the goto demon to blame all problems on ..

 

[OinkBoink]

Tell me how does, 'where I live' and 'what my Dad does for a living' got anything to do with a naka set up for catching drunk drivers. Its my basic right to refuse to answer such questions. But everyone answers them so that the policeman doesn't harass them. So how is it any different than ragging.

Honestly, you have the right to refuse to answer those questions. Just because the system in our country is broken, it doesn't justify the use of the same tactics in colleges.

BTW, the police may have asked you those questions to get general info. ? If you were drunk they would probably need that info. to register a case and deal with the overall situation. If you weren't, that's another thing.

 

[dexBG]

Tell me how does, 'where I live' and 'what my Dad does for a living' got anything to do with a naka set up for catching drunk drivers. Its my basic right to refuse to answer such questions. But everyone answers them so that the policeman doesn't harass them. So how is it any different than ragging.

If you can't give a straight answer to a senior god forbid what will happen in front of a cop who has to power to throw your butt in prison overnight ..

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Honestly, you have the right to refuse to answer those questions. Just because the system in our country is broken, it doesn't justify the use of the same tactics in colleges.

So intros and police questioning are infact the same thing now ?

 

[OinkBoink]

That's a very huge leap you have taken there.. unfairly using position and power to influence others is not ragging, if this is how you think then you need to learn a thing or two .. just because it happened in an academic instt. does automatically make it ragging.

Which is whats' weird .. ragging is the goto demon to blame all problems on ..

Sorry, it's not a huge leap at all. When your seniors rag you, they're using their perceived superiority/authority to intimidate you. And I didn't say what that teacher did was ragging. I said they share a common theme.

And who's blaming all their problems on ragging ? Now that's a huge leap to take.

 

[asingh]

I never said it was fine for me then .. what I replied was my perspective looking back on it today. Yes not everyone has the same reaction .. there were 2 other guys with me who reacted quite "differently" ..
I must disagree .. being asked about your family/educational background/hometown is perfectly acceptable .. I'm not ashamed of who I am or where I'm from and despite what a senior might say it wont change a thing ..

Well the way you answered those 10 points of mine, it made it sound like that. What should I incur. What if someone does not want to tell about their background and wants to remain aloof. There is a huge gamut of people like that out there. This is societal to India: Where privacy is negligible and frowned upon, and people think they have a right to know about others, what ever it may be. What if someone is embarrassed about their background. In these sessions did they have an option to refuse...? I doubt it. Today nothing will change if you put all your lives detail on the web (like FB); but we do it out of own free will. What a ruckus is thrown when something without our permission is published. Is that not being forced, in ragging. That is what happens in ragging. People are told to do things, which they might not want to, or asked questions about information they might not want to divulge. It is a basic human right to retain, mask ones information (unless say a court of law); why is it forced. I abhor the fact to tell people where I am from, or my family background when questioned. Out of my free will, ok I can. That choice cannot be exercised in ragging. Ragging is a message, it it no communication. One way channel.

Coddling someone through out life in no ways improves a persons personality either.

Letting someone do what they want, is not coddling. Why we pamper babies. Should we bash them around to make them strong. What...? It is known as free will, and non-subjugation of rights and privacy and activities, which are controlled during ragging, and monitored. A mental jerk is far worse than a physical slap, ragging does that.

Despite what we want to believe that people can band together naturally out of good will .. it doesn't happen .. society at large today is a good example of that. You and I may differ on what is synthetic and what is natural bonding ..

No, you have it wrong. Humans, can bond on goodwill. Have you fought with all your relatives and your parents, that created a harmonious relationship between you all. Did you make your friends, by first fighting with them. Society is a great example of how people will bond if left to their own devices. They will fight too, but peace has it mertis.

Thats a very generalized statement which everyone says ..
People rag only because they have been ragged on .. One aspect I will admit to is that seniors can't coddle up juniors, they have to be strict like everyone else .. publicly a certain image has to be maintained ..

I really will not answer to that. It is obvious what school of thought you are from. Are you in the military or what..? What standard...was your college not for education, or was it for image of seniors...?

I can tell you impact of being prompted into silos .. we would hear fights breaking out between "groups" of first years over dinner & lunches .. all because they had an entire hostel wing to themselves and the tough ones declared themselves bosses .. the shy and meek ones were still tormented but by their peers instead ..

And how would the seniors prevent this. Dog-eat-dog. No one is better.

Our seniors would gladly pass down their old books and notes instead of selling them .. its a relationship forged in uncomfortable circumstances but that's the reason its stronger and more natural.

Is that a crux or a resultant. I really do not get it. People "can" study on their own. How do day-scholars manage it. How is it happening abroad, without the stigma of ragging.

 

[OinkBoink]

If you can't give a straight answer to a senior god forbid what will happen in front of a cop who has to power to throw your butt in prison overnight ..

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So intros and police questioning are infact the same thing now ?

What the hell are you talking about ? He was specifically talking about the police being interested in details that were of no relevance to the case at hand. I said that he has the right to not give those details. That's it.

 

[asingh]

Tell me how does, 'where I live' and 'what my Dad does for a living' got anything to do with a naka set up for catching drunk drivers. Its my basic right to refuse to answer such questions. But everyone answers them so that the policeman doesn't harass them. So how is it any different than ragging.

No they are not the same thing. You are being questioned about your background, cause cops need to ascertain your viability as a non-criminal. By talking to you, they are probing for alcohol smell, and how honest you are and looking at body language. Why does this need to happen in ragging. For someone to know me at college, they need to know about my parents, or village I hail from. It is pathetic and idiotic.

 

[rdst_1]

How hard is it to understand the difference between being asked questions by people who are trying to enforce the law and by random college kids ? How the hell is what the police is doing anything like ragging at all ? They are doing the job they're paid to do. Unless the police are bullying you in some way I don't see how it can be equated to ragging at all.

Also, there should be a law regarding ragging. And it must be enforced strictly.

You may have had fun but I know tons and tons of people who didn't.

You must be really naive thinking that policeman at these Nakas are just trying to enforce the law. What they do is try to coerce you to pay them money and that is why they ask you such questions. The moment you are uncomfortable answering them or tell them it is none of their business(because it actually ain't), you will be asked to come out and a challan will be issued for a crime they make up from their figment of imagination.

Just a day before Diwali, I was stopped by policeman. I was told that I had run a red light, which I knew I hadn't. Despite me being innocent, a challan was issued just because I refused to pay 'Diwali' to the policeman.

Tell me which is worse in your eyes.

 

[rdst_1]

No they are not the same thing. You are being questioned about your background, cause cops need to ascertain your viability as a non-criminal. By talking to you, they are probing for alcohol smell, and how honest you are and looking at body language. Why does this need to happen in ragging. For someone to know me at college, they need to know about my parents, or village I hail from. It is pathetic and idiotic.

And by knowing where I live and what my dad does they can ascertain that I am not a criminal. If that is what you just said, then your school of thought is absurd to say the least.

If they are probing for alcohol they should do a breath analyzer test. They don't need to know my family background for that.