Requirement for solid wireless network around my home

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I have tested them with Wifi Analyzer and here's the link for CSV files in Zip format which you all can emulate with wifi analyzer.

**Sorry for inconvenience.**

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6gKZT-Z1a4qcHNVSUhxS1R3M0E/view?usp=sharing

I had placed the router in the ground floor kitchen atop crockery.

Experts please analyze.
I

So here is what it looks like

1. ground floor

X marks the spot where the router is placed for the test.

Bedrooms 1 & 3 are at the limit here, -79dBm isn't very good, should be closer to 70.

3db is a doubling of power so to get from -79 to -70 requires a signal 8 times more powerful than your present. Sticking 9dBi antennas on your present router will only get you four times more power.

this will bring bedroom 2 into the late 70's. if you are happy with performance currently in bedroom 1 & 3 then you can expect the same with bedroom 2.

What i don't understand is why less signal is lost in the living room with a load bearing wall (shown in red) than in bedroom 3 ?

And the loss in bedroom 3 is the same as bedroom 1 which has another load bearing wall in the way. Signal in bedroom 1 should be weaker than bedroom 3.


2. upper floor

The upper floor is harder to understand. i don't get why in the kitchen there is almost no signal. in your last test it got 86% of pings through so i'd have expected at least -79dbm there if not more still.

How the signal vanishes so completely in bedroom room 3 is a mystery, no signal whatsoever even though its not that far from the crockery unit. Consistent with your first test of 0% ping.

To get these levels up on the top floor is going to take a router with more power WITH high gain antennas (most important) to hear your clients. Read this article.

Why High Power Routers Don't Improve Range

Where is the stairwell located btw, to get to the top floor ?

What gain antennas is microtik shipping with.

 

[koolcoolkg]

So here is what it looks like

1. ground floor

X marks the spot where the router is placed for the test.

Bedrooms 1 & 3 are at the limit here, -79dBm isn't very good, should be closer to 70.

3db is a doubling of power so to get from -79 to -70 requires a signal 8 times more powerful than your present. Sticking 9dBi antennas on your present router will only get you four times more power.

this will bring bedroom 2 into the late 70's. if you are happy with performance currently in bedroom 1 & 3 then you can expect the same with bedroom 2.

What i don't understand is why less signal is lost in the living room with a load bearing wall (shown in red) than in bedroom 3 ?

And the loss in bedroom 3 is the same as bedroom 1 which has another load bearing wall in the way. Signal in bedroom 1 should be weaker than bedroom 3.


2. upper floor

The upper floor is harder to understand. i don't get why in the kitchen there is almost no signal. in your last test it got 86% of pings through so i'd have expected at least -79dbm there if not more still.

How the signal vanishes so completely in bedroom room 3 is a mystery, no signal whatsoever even though its not that far from the crockery unit. Consistent with your first test of 0% ping.

To get these levels up on the top floor is going to take a router with more power WITH high gain antennas (most important) to hear your clients. Read this article.

Why High Power Routers Don't Improve Range

Where is the stairwell located btw, to get to the top floor ?

What gain antennas is microtik shipping with.

It's a R.C.C. Structure and walls are 200mm thick.
Slab is 150-200 mm thick.
I did receive some range in Top Kitchen but it was possible when I brought the phone near the slab.

The Staircase is located on the right of living.
It's another 25 foot by 20 foot staircase block leading from entrance in ground floor to each floor.

 

[koolcoolkg]

Guys The fellow people on official milrotik forum suggested this to me- .
It has 1000 mW

RB951Ui-2HnD
http://routerboard.com/RB951Ui-2HnD

Its 4600 on Multilink.

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Guys The fellow people on official milrotik forum suggested this to me- .
It has 1000 mW
RB951Ui-2HnD

So if everyone on this thread signs up on the mikrotik public forum, and we give you suggestions only then will you listen to us?
I read your thread. All of them told you to place multiple APs, one on each floor, correct? Obviously your floors are very thick or have a lot of metal rebars in them, which is probably why the signal isn't penetrating to the next floor.

The upper floor is harder to understand. i don't get why in the kitchen there is almost no signal

Have you seen the polar plots for this router? Your assumption that wifi signals are spherical is wrong.

router with more power WITH high gain antennas (most important) to hear your clients. Read this article.

Why High Power Routers Don't Improve Range

As already mentioned a couple of pages back, the signal amps for the mikrotiks work on both transmit and receive. Blindly copy/pasting from SNB will only help you understand so much

 

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So if everyone on this thread signs up on the mikrotik public forum, and we give you suggestions only then will you listen to us?
I read your thread. All of them told you to place multiple APs, one on each floor, correct? Obviously your floors are very thick or have a lot of metal rebars in them, which is probably why the signal isn't penetrating to the next floor.

I'm not impressed with the present location on the crockery unit. Would relocating it and redoing the test be worth it ? Let's do more than one location test. We need to find out if there are better locations possible. Ideas. People ?

Oh and dbm's paints a better picture of signal strength than mere pings.

next is whether one router handle both floors or should there be AP's

I've doubts whether one unit alone can cover this house. maybe half. bedroom 2 will be iffy. Wish SNB had tested out microtiks products.

Have you seen the polar plots for this router? Your assumption that wifi signals are spherical is wrong.

Nobody can find the polar plots for this router or any other consumer grade routerfor that matter.

It's an omni, might not be fully spherical but how far off from can it be.

DO you have an answer for why bedroom 3 loses so much signal whereas living room loses less ?

If he reorients the router will the picture reverse between living room & bedroom 3.

As already mentioned a couple of pages back, the signal amps for the mikrotiks work on both transmit and receive. Blindly copy/pasting from SNB will only help you understand so much

i would not advise a product with an internal antenna for this house. adjustable power with a choice to choose gain of the antenna is better.

 

[koolcoolkg]

So if everyone on this thread signs up on the mikrotik public forum, and we give you suggestions only then will you listen to us?
I read your thread. All of them told you to place multiple APs, one on each floor, correct? Obviously your floors are very thick or have a lot of metal rebars in them, which is probably why the signal isn't penetrating to the next floor.


Have you seen the polar plots for this router? Your assumption that wifi signals are spherical is wrong.


As already mentioned a couple of pages back, the signal amps for the mikrotiks work on both transmit and receive. Blindly copy/pasting from SNB will only help you understand so much

No offence dude but I have to be dead sure that the device works if I am buying for 6k.
That's why I am tampering so much.

 

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Guys The fellow people on official milrotik forum suggested this to me- .
It has 1000 mW

RB951Ui-2HnD
http://routerboard.com/RB951Ui-2HnD

Its 4600 on Multilink.

Can you link that thread here, want to see their thought process.

What would be good is if dheeraj posted a plan of his house with signal levels in various rooms then we might get a better idea

 

[koolcoolkg]

Can you link that thread here, want to see their thought process.

What would be good is if dheeraj posted a plan of his house with signal levels in various rooms then we might get a better idea

Here you go-
http://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88972

 

[vivek.krishnan]

I found it a tad bit difficult to setup, since for some reason, the LAN/WAN port was not being bridged with the WiFi automatically with Quickset options. Added the bridging manually, took about 10 minutes since it had been quite sometime since I setup a microtik device.

After that, its been a breeze. Excellent network coverage at office. Area covered is about 10,000 sqft. Getting 3/5 bars in all cabins as well. Never goes into the dead zone on WiFi Analyzer on the Redmi 1S. However, there ain't much obstructions in the way of walls, so take area coverage with a pinch of salt.

Also, tried with a ceiling dome antenna, and got excellent coverage. Will be ditching the pole antenna for the same.

Not updated the device with the newer firmware (checked, these are some updates)

Total cost - 5K all incl. from RAH Infotech. Decent tech support from them as well.

 

[blr_p]

However, there ain't much obstructions in the way of walls, so take area coverage with a pinch of salt.

Thats the crux of it. This guys got walls all over the place, like a normal house.

Is a demo possible ? that would be a good way to find out. Get the rep over to his place for a test. Same procedure, hook it up to the power and go rangefinding.

It's a R.C.C. Structure and walls are 200mm thick.
Slab is 150-200 mm thick.
I did receive some range in Top Kitchen but it was possible when I brought the phone near the slab.

I think you're going to need one access point. Idea is you will use the n12 to do that work. The mikrotik (model# to be decided) will do the other bit.

Can you do another set of wifi analyser tests ?

This time place the n12 high up on the cupboard in bedroom 1 closer to the center of the room. Then do tests on both floors. Lets see the readings and how well it can work as an AP to cover your bedrooms for both floors.

The Staircase is located on the right of living.
It's another 25 foot by 20 foot staircase block leading from entrance in ground floor to each floor.

Good, that means its out of the way and can safely be ignored.

 

[koolcoolkg]

Guys here's the final quote from Rah Infotech-

Seems promising.No warranty by the way.
should I pull the trigger??

 

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What size antenna does it come with ?

Is there no way for you to get a demo.

 

[koolcoolkg]

What size antenna does it come with ?

Is there no way for you to get a demo.

It's a 6 dbi omni directional antenna 2.4 GHz.

I think it operates on 5Ghz also.

 

[chetansha]

nope, it works only on 2.4 Ghz

btw, i saw some Asus RT-AC66U/R routers on ebay.com, it comes to 6500 using ishop.

 

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The plan is same for both floors.

The red dot you see is the position I am planning to install.
Currently my Asus is placed on top floor living room gallery near puja ghar.(Please refer the plan)

Am a bit confused as to the layout of your house. The plan you posted on the first page.

is different to the one you posted later

 

[koolcoolkg]

Am a bit confused as to the layout of your house. The plan you posted on the first page.

is different to the one you posted later

Oops

That's my house in pune.

The first one is wrong.
NVM the later is perfect.

 

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Seems promising.No warranty by the way.
should I pull the trigger??

Where to position it ?

lets say you get it, it does not cover the whole house or it covers the house but signal even though its good presents problems to mobiles.

what will you do ? you need an additional AP in that case. Something to plan for in the future.

btw, i saw some Asus RT-AC66U/R routers on ebay.com, it comes to 6500 using ishop.

Going by indy's experience i'm not sure whether n66 is better. The impression i get is this groove is somewhwere between n56 & n66 or little better than n66.

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Guys here's the final quote from Rah Infotech-

View attachment 48381

Seems promising.No warranty by the way.
should I pull the trigger??

Please be careful. The model mentioned in their mail - 5HPND is a completely different device : http://routerboard.com/RBSXT5HPnD

No offence dude but I have to be dead sure that the device works if I am buying for 6k.

My point is, there's no use taking *half* advice from everywhere - you will only end up with a half working network.

In addition to recommending the RB951 router, all the mikrotik forum members have also recommended using multiple RB951 APs :-

If the coverage is still insufficient, try adding another AP in the next floor.

It sounds like a large house, so I would think two access points is better.

Of course a second AP is desirable.

Use one of these on each floor, set them to channel 6 (base floor), 1 (mid) and 11 (or 12, top floor).

I did tell you that you might need multiple APs as well. But you seem to be ignoring this. I understand you're restricted by your budget, but you need to have realistic expectations or be prepared for possible shortcomings.

TBH both the grooveA 52hpn or the RB951 will be equally matched, since both have roughly the same power output :
- grooveA 500mw/27dbm of transmit power + 6db antennas
- RB951 1000mw/30dbm of transmit power + 2.5db antennas
Do note that the RB951 with 2.5db antennas will have more of a spherical signal than the GrooveA 52's 6db antenna [*] and the RB951 also supports 2 signal chains, i.e. 2 antennas can be used at a time for antenna diversity or faster speeds.

Going by indy's experience i'm not sure whether n66 is better. The impression i get is this groove is somewhwere between n56 & n66 or little better than n66.

Even the RT-N12HP is way better than the N66, because it has signal amplifiers like the groove. Real life results from fellow mod bottle.

Oh and dbm's paints a better picture of signal strength than mere pings.

SNB performs their reviews with MB/s tests not dbm tests. A ping is nothing more than a ~1.5KB/s data stream test. Is packet loss at 1.5KB/s acceptable?

DO you have an answer for why bedroom 3 loses so much signal whereas living room loses less ?

One possible theory is that the router's signal is reflecting off the adjacent wall and affecting the SNR. Or there is something different with the walls that isn't depicted in the floor plan. Whats your theory?

It's an omni, might not be fully spherical but how far off from can it be.

i would not advise a product with an internal antenna for this house. adjustable power with a choice to choose gain of the antenna is better.

Sorry, but your understanding of antenna gain is flawed. An antenna does not increase radiated power, but focuses it better. A stronger antenna isn't amplifying the signal strength, it is focusing it to a narrower area, thereby increasing the signal strength in that range. In other words, if he uses a stronger antenna, he is increasing horizontal range at the expense of vertical range, necessitating the need for multiple APs on each floor. I think the simplest explanation is the balloon analogy presented in this page : http://blog.oscarliang.net/how-antenna-gain-affects-range/ [*]
While I understand that all of us are always learning, if you could avoid confusing the OP with these misunderstandings, it would speed things up significantly.

 

[koolcoolkg]

Please be careful. The model mentioned in their mail - 5HPND is a completely different device : http://routerboard.com/RBSXT5HPnD


My point is, there's no use taking *half* advice from everywhere - you will only end up with a half working network.

In addition to recommending the RB951 router, all the mikrotik forum members have also recommended using multiple RB951 APs :-




I did tell you that you might need multiple APs as well. But you seem to be ignoring this. I understand you're restricted by your budget, but you need to have realistic expectations or be prepared for possible shortcomings.

TBH both the grooveA 52hpn or the RB951 will be equally matched, since both have roughly the same power output :
- grooveA 500mw/27dbm of transmit power + 6db antennas
- RB951 1000mw/30dbm of transmit power + 2.5db antennas
Do note that the RB951 with 2.5db antennas will have more of a spherical signal than the GrooveA 52's 6db antenna [*] and the RB951 also supports 2 signal chains, i.e. 2 antennas can be used at a time for antenna diversity or faster speeds.



Even the RT-N12HP is way better than the N66, because it has signal amplifiers like the groove. Real life results from fellow mod bottle.


SNB performs their reviews with MB/s tests not dbm tests. A ping is nothing more than a ~1.5KB/s data stream test. Is packet loss at 1.5KB/s acceptable?


One possible theory is that the router's signal is reflecting off the adjacent wall and affecting the SNR. Or there is something different with the walls that isn't depicted in the floor plan. Whats your theory?



Sorry, but your understanding of antenna gain is flawed. An antenna does not increase radiated power, but focuses it better. A stronger antenna isn't amplifying the signal strength, it is focusing it to a narrower area, thereby increasing the signal strength in that range. In other words, if he uses a stronger antenna, he is increasing horizontal range at the expense of vertical range, necessitating the need for multiple APs on each floor. I think the simplest explanation is the balloon analogy presented in this page : http://blog.oscarliang.net/how-antenna-gain-affects-range/ [*]
While I understand that all of us are always learning, if you could avoid confusing the OP with these misunderstandings, it would speed things up significantly.

It's groove only.She might have bren mistaken.
https://mail-attachment.googleuserc...416620753868&sads=uBwDEbmMLqsA5CGmq0zm_4BojGc

Yep eddy.You are absolutely right.
I had just assumed that if the groove can broadcast signals in vivek.krishnans 10k sq.ft. Office then it will surely cover my 5000-6000 sq. ft. House.

Eddy I did consider additional AP advice but I have only 1 Mbps connection and there are 7-10 devices so I wished to maintain same speed.

2 RB951 are way out of my budget.
If I successfully happen to cover entire ground floor with RB951 and set Asus as repeater(on top floor kitchen) still I am not sure that it will cover my entire house[emoji17]

The main problem persists with the walls.
Even range extenders won't work.

 

[blr_p]

2 RB951 are way out of my budget.
If I successfully happen to cover entire ground floor with RB951 and set Asus as repeater(on top floor kitchen) still I am not sure that it will cover my entire house[emoji17]

The main problem persists with the walls.
Even range extenders won't work.

Forget range extenders and think AP's which won't halve your bandwidth. You need to run a wire to the AP, its not a wireless connection.

As for budget you have it, just not now. You mean to tell me you cant spare another 5k a few months later, course you can.

Where that AP will be placed has to be figured out.

SNB performs their reviews with MB/s tests not dbm tests. A ping is nothing more than a ~1.5KB/s data stream test. Is packet loss at 1.5KB/s acceptable?

True, but we did not get a MB/s test here instead we got a ping test. Ideally an MB/s test would be done but its a bit more involved to setup. For the purposes of finding out whether the signal will get there a dbm is good. If he's geting -92dbm on the top floor then its not going to be much use. A ping test is a good complement but isn't sufficient by itself.

Even the RT-N12HP is way better than the N66, because it has signal amplifiers like the groove. Real life results from fellow mod bottle.

Maybe you spoke offline, i do recall him trying to get a range extender a while back but did not see much on the board, no floor plans or signal tests. This is why i keep enforcing them as they build up reliable reference points for the future.

One possible theory is that the router's signal is reflecting off the adjacent wall and affecting the SNR. Or there is something different with the walls that isn't depicted in the floor plan. Whats your theory?

if its reflection then the router might be close to a pillar with rebars so he has to re-position the router further away and retest.

koolconfig can you do more tests and see whether you get a better signal in the adjacent bedroom on the same floor. I'm not convinced you have the best router position yet. You have to nail this first before getting a new router.

What about the top floor why there such a low signal in the kitchen. my walls are 2 inches thicker than his, a std d-link provided free by airtel placed a floor above (close to ground level) gives me a signal in the room directly underneath and the adjacent room. N12 should be doing better than this with its rather large (in its range) 5dB antennas.. he can't even get a usable signal in the kitchen (unless he holds hte phone close to the ground) let alone the adjacent room.

Sorry, but your understanding of antenna gain is flawed. An antenna does not increase radiated power, but focuses it better. A stronger antenna isn't amplifying the signal strength, it is focusing it to a narrower area, thereby increasing the signal strength in that range. In other words, if he uses a stronger antenna, he is increasing horizontal range at the expense of vertical range, necessitating the need for multiple APs on each floor. I think the simplest explanation is the balloon analogy presented in this page : http://blog.oscarliang.net/how-antenna-gain-affects-range/ [*]
While I understand that all of us are always learning, if you could avoid confusing the OP with these misunderstandings, it would speed things up significantly.

I found an article on SNB and here is the part i was missing.

upto 4db an omni puts out a spherical donut.

going up to 6 -9db (omni) it becomes directive so central placing isn't going to work as well with these gains. This does not mean it won't cover both floors just that with higher gains it needs to be placed away from the center and oriented appropriately. Your article is using a directional antenna at higher gains. an omni would create a more oblong coverage.

n12 has 5dbi antennas, if he goes for the groove he gets a 6dbi antenna. Just one db more. You can lose anywhere from 5-10db just crossing one wall. The only option left is more power.