Selling Stolen Products in Market section

codelad

Well-Known Member
Disciple
It's already happened. Multiple times. Seller is a very old member having sold maybe 100s of items. But that doesn't give him a free pass does it? I asked if the hard drive he's selling has an invoice and packaging. Puns deleted that and all other posts directly related to the item being sold claiming O/T. It's all in the other thread.

As someone involved in the aforementioned thread, one of my posts too was (IMO, unfairly) deleted.

My apparent fault - I had drawn attention to one of the HDDs being wrongly labelled with a sticker from a completely unrelated product line, which the seller readily admitted to (to his credit).

I had then asked to know if there were specific circumstances behind this mis-labelling, as I felt it quite important (and quite odd, since I have never known HDDs to be mis-labelled by a manufacturer). I was at that point genuinely interested in buying one of his drives and felt there may be perfectly plausible explanation behind the mis-labelling.

It was at this point that a mod suddenly deleted a bunch of posts, including mine. And all this while the FS thread is still active, and includes the mis-labelled HDD, last I checked.

For all I know (and hope), the seller may not even have had the chance to look at my post and respond to it. And any future buyer may not spot the incorrect labelling before buying - leading to problems that could well have been avoided.

I understand mods must have a tough job. Still, to have raised what I felt was a relevant query and to have it abruptly deleted - didn't somehow feel right.
 

rdst_1

Well-Known Member
Skilled
The problem is most of us can't self regulate. Yes, asking questions about bills, warranty and the like ARE IMPORTANT. I think it's better if the mods allow that, however it soon turns into a "lol 3070 is coming RIp 2080ti" and other price-policing stuff. It's another damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing.

I said the exact same thing in the other thread where similar discussion was going on before. Some people also don't realize that when you are writing something online, you can't get the tone across either. So people who are writing in single sentences or nearly like it's a WhatsApp chat, need to realize that they should be asking the question in the most respectable way possible. Otherwise it becomes a point of contention that wastes the moderators time on petty issues.
Prime example is the OP in this very thread. There are much better respectable ways to get your point across but he chose to say that maybe the mods are getting paid on the side by the fraudsters or resellers. This coming from someone who has only contributed in the MP only after 2013-14 until 2020.
This forum is more than it's marketplace and has been for me ever since I joined it. And I don't like when someone who is just here for trading suddenly wants to call out our mods as fraudsters or one who are aiding and abetting a crime.
 

mk76

Well-Known Member
Adept
I'm not sure what trustworthy means. It cannot be quantified. A member with 10 positive feedback points can also commit fraud. It is difficult to cover all bases when we are just providing a platform for a buyer and seller to communicate and trade their stuff, and nothing more. Any restriction we make, can be circumvented easily. We have come across so many such instances here in TE. People making dummy sale threads or dummy user ids for exchanging feedback points, etc..
Back when a minimum membership period of 2 months or so was required to gain access to market sections, new members used to either spam, or use some other member to proxy sell their stuff on their behalf. The spam we can tackle. The other part cannot be. Hence a decision was made to reduce these restrictions, since the members who want to sell here will find their way to do so anyway. Now it's two valid posts and at least a day of being a TE member, and access is granted. @Renegade will be changing this to a minimum of 25 valid posts before access to market section from tonight. Let's see what happens.


IIRC this topic has been raised in past as well. It is important to understand how do we want to see TE market section as.

1) Just a marketplace
Then there's no need to have any kind of control. Only the seller and buyer are responsible for their deals. And the onus would lie with them only. A disclaimer should suffice and any moderation could be to the extent of sanity of content and communication etiquette.

2) A trustworthy marketplace
I recall my first few interactions over a decade ago. I was skeptical of making online payments to someone I did not know. But the platform and the members inculcated a sense of trust in a new member. Those who're associated for over a decade can recall how it used to be. If ( close to ) this is what is should be then people shouldn't shy away from stringent restrictions , which will act a deterrent in majority of cases.

Having said that, totally agree that trustworthiness cannot be quantified. And that it doesn't stop even reputed members from committing fraud. But then there can never be a perfect solution .. just what we want to prioritize.

The mods put in a lot of efforts to keep things in order. At times their judgement had been questionable too.
 

izzner

Well-Known Member
Disciple
It's already happened. Multiple times. Seller is a very old member having sold maybe 100s of items. But that doesn't give him a free pass does it? I asked if the hard drive he's selling has an invoice and packaging. Puns deleted that and all other posts directly related to the item being sold claiming O/T. It's all in the other thread.

Exactly my point. Mod is accountable in such cases. Else Why is the mod aiding the seller ?

How can a post by a potential buyer asking for invoice and packaging from seller be OT ?
This act simply implies that mod is aiding the seller.
 

adventureguy

Well-Known Member
Skilled
I don't know what more mods can do to keep it safe. Its ultimately that, a marketplace, and its upon the user to go ahead with the deal or not. Just like OLX.

mods just ensure marketplace rules are being followed when items are put on sale. and thats more than anyone can expect from mods who do this for free.

As people already mentioned, trust isn't something that quantifiable and mods cannot be expected to do background checks on everyone who wants to sell some stuff here.

For whats its worth, I requested a mod to act as escrow for a 25k mobile I sold and he accepted it in good faith. What more can you expect from free marketplace?
 

izzner

Well-Known Member
Disciple
As someone involved in the aforementioned thread, one of my posts too was (IMO, unfairly) deleted.

My apparent fault - I had drawn attention to one of the HDDs being wrongly labelled with a sticker from a completely unrelated product line, which the seller readily admitted to (to his credit).

I had then asked to know if there were specific circumstances behind this mis-labelling, as I felt it quite important (and quite odd, since I have never known HDDs to be mis-labelled by a manufacturer). I was at that point genuinely interested in buying one of his drives and felt there may be perfectly plausible explanation behind the mis-labelling.

It was at this point that a mod suddenly deleted a bunch of posts, including mine. And all this while the FS thread is still active, and includes the mis-labelled HDD, last I checked.

For all I know (and hope), the seller may not even have had the chance to look at my post and respond to it. And any future buyer may not spot the incorrect labelling before buying - leading to problems that could well have been avoided.

I understand mods must have a tough job. Still, to have raised what I felt was a relevant query and to have it abruptly deleted - didn't somehow feel right.

Some mod bhakts won't understand your point bro..
 

Renegade

The Outlaw
Staff member
These discussions are important every few years as we are mostly a self moderated community. Even the mods are part of the community. Members change, mods change, our perspective changes with time and therefore what-is-acceptable and what-is-not also evolves. Sometime it gets diluted over time, so we must reinforce whats right at that moment.

I remember we never allowed low balling in the market sections. Strict NO. Any other discussion is allowed, like asking for invoice seems like a fair question to ask.

We also used to allow other members to post a link to a brand new item from an ecommerce site or an offline retailers rate card to educate the seller and the potential buyers that the price is good/bad. I still think that is fair play. After that it is upto the seller to keep asking the inflated price for the item.

What we did not allow at all was someone posting a link to another sale thread and saying that XYZ is selling it for X amount then why are you charging 2X.

We also did not allow, I am ready to buy your X amount item for X/2 right now.
 

NotMyRealName

Well-Known Member
Skilled
I don't know what more mods can do to keep it safe. Its ultimately that, a marketplace, and its upon the user to go ahead with the deal or not. Just like OLX.

mods just ensure marketplace rules are being followed when items are put on sale. and thats more than anyone can expect from mods who do this for free.

As people already mentioned, trust isn't something that quantifiable and mods cannot be expected to do background checks on everyone who wants to sell some stuff here.

For whats its worth, I requested a mod to act as escrow for a 25k mobile I sold and he accepted it in good faith. What more can you expect from free marketplace?

The least that mods can do is NOT delete relevant posts. I understand asking them to police deals is too much. But leave the goddamn posts so others can see wtf is going on!

Any other discussion is allowed, like asking for invoice seems like a fair question to ask.

Sadly, puns didn't follow this which really seems like common sense. I had even tagged you and some other mods. But, poof! the post was disappeared faster than thai dissidents.
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I didn't even demand to see the invoice. I just asked for an explanation why it's not there, and also since he wrote 'opened to check', i asked opened what, and where is the 'opened' packaging'?

But the seller had the gall to say he doesn't respond to unimportant questions, like he's the frigging owner of the marketplace. And the mod ends up deleting all questioning posts.
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I was talking about mods being held accountable for market transactions. That will not happen.
And i meant if a mod deletes all relevant posts he deems O/T, then he SHOULD be held accountable if something untoward happens right? Why delete the damn post is my question? It's a clear case of pro-seller bias.
 

izzner

Well-Known Member
Disciple
The least that mods can do is NOT delete relevant posts. I understand asking them to police deals is too much. But leave the goddamn posts so others can see wtf is going on!



Sadly, puns didn't follow this which really seems like common sense. I had even tagged you and some other mods. But, poof! the post was disappeared faster than thai dissidents.
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I didn't even demand to see the invoice. I just asked for an explanation why it's not there, and also since he wrote 'opened to check', i asked opened what, and where is the 'opened' packaging'?

But the seller had the gall to say he doesn't respond to unimportant questions, like he's the frigging owner of the marketplace. And the mod ends up deleting all questioning posts.
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And i meant if a mod deletes all relevant posts he deems O/T, then he SHOULD be held accountable if something untoward happens right? Why delete the damn post is my question? It's a clear case of pro-seller bias.

This is the actual problem and the cause is puns.
He deleted relevant posts on the pretext of cleaning up the thread leading to this situation.
He is taking arbitrary decisions just coz he is a mod with complete disregard to what is right and wrong.

I have taken a stand and I don't regret it. What is wrong is wrong and there is no right or wrong way to point out what is wrong.
 

akg7091

Well-Known Member
Disciple
Little OT here, but while doing an RMA is a xerox of the original bill accepted?

Yup. Have used xerox of bills ( I file invoices in one folder and a copy of each invoice in a separate folder ) many times for RMA. No issues whatsoever
 

Emperor

Well-Known Member
Skilled
may be ot.. but wish to write...

Few sellers are very smart, they offer things via PM (if you post requirements in Want To Buy Section), but if you asked them to open thread, then they just sop replying you and at same time same seller keep selling other items via Posting in For Sell thread.. no objection for that if they OPEN SELL THREAD and close the deal.... but the same person didn't open new thread for product that they offer via PM?

.. because they may think buyer is dumbo to fall pray and buy garbage at price of Gold
 

Panda

Well-Known Member
Disciple
Even though I recently started posting here, I've been a lurker for more than a decade and I'm on the side of the people who are "not okay" with the cleaning up of relevant posts in the market section and I also witnessed the same recently.

It was a FS HDD thread and people were asking for invoice but it wasn't available as per OP. But when the serial no. on the screenshots of the HDD was run on HDD site [I checked personally to confirm], it showed "totally different" stats with what the OP was saying. Concerns were raised about the members asking OP to explain it and then the thread was cleaned.

This is not how moderation should work as those weren't OT posts and were queries related to the item.

Also as stated by others in this thread, misplacing 1 or 2 invoices are usual but when its the same story for 100+ items, then its not something that any sane person would believe.


I guess this thread proves people have too much free time working from home.:tonguewink:
Actually no. This thread is the reflection of the frustrations of the members over several years with respect to the marketplace.
 

quaratineinthesejeans

Justiceforall
Skilled
I'm not sure of the rules, can anyone with zero or couple of posts ( that too in market section) sell anything?
Years ago I sold a single item to a very reputable member and that awesome dude ( from a different city)took a lot of trouble and sent me cash through another person.
However Erodov was a different story...it was more of a market place than a tech forum.
One member there ( forgot his name) sent me a htc HD2 ( it was a superb phone back then) with a shattered screen and never bothered to reply thereafter.
Another one sent an unlockable iPhone 4s ( after claiming it was bought from India)
Mods didn't/ couldn't do anything and they seemed pretty rude and unreasonable.
Please don't make TE another Erodov.
One guy ( Ad1tya or something similar) considered himself the boss...that's the only person in tech forums I genuinely hate, he tried to scare me with physical confrontation, after being exposed ( according to him, he could hear beyond 20khz sound with triple fi and iPhones are equipped with the absolute best DAC and amp section!!)
 

nRiTeCh

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Have seen numerous threads for items being sold in just a week's time. Many a times seal packed.

If you have to sell in a week's time, without using it, why buy it at first place !! Besides the genuine cases wonder what's the catch with most of them.
Exactly! This is my question since a decade now.
How come people buy and sell off instantly (in a day or two at times) stating reasons like: need cash, not needed, upgrading?
Then why in first place you bought it? Didn't you researched before buying? Where was your need for money then? And you instantly thought of another upgrade?

And then there are those careful noobish people who claim the warranty is there for 3-5 yrs (giving screenshots) but stating they lost the bill. How careless of them losing bills for something costing 15k+. Either he is a son on ambani or ratan tata who doesn't care at all to preserver bills and still want to sell at competitive rates.

Last yr on erodov have asked one such Someone Mr forgetful lost how did he lost the bill in flat 20 days if he ordered it from a amazon and his reply was this:
My amazon account got hacked and the phone was lost while traveling and hence no more access to my amazon account! :wtf:
The height of faking for selling...:arghh::D:D
Sahi hai!!
If this happens here then I think its time to link Pan and Aadhar a/cs to curb such practices.
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I'm not sure of the rules, can anyone with zero or couple of posts ( that too in market section) sell anything?
Years ago I sold a single item to a very reputable member and that awesome dude ( from a different city)took a lot of trouble and sent me cash through another person.
However Erodov was a different story...it was more of a market place than a tech forum.
One member there ( forgot his name) sent me a htc HD2 ( it was a superb phone back then) with a shattered screen and never bothered to reply thereafter.
Another one sent an unlockable iPhone 4s ( after claiming it was bought from India)
Mods didn't/ couldn't do anything and they seemed pretty rude and unreasonable.
Please don't make TE another Erodov.
One guy ( Ad1tya or something similar) considered himself the boss...that's the only person in tech forums I genuinely hate, he tried to scare me with physical confrontation, after being exposed ( according to him, he could hear beyond 20khz sound with triple fi and iPhones are equipped with the absolute best DAC and amp section!!)
This...
After erodovs death all their members have bumped here like in a jam packed local train and expect an instant seat before standing for few minutes.. I hope you all got what I mean.
This was already highlighted earlier "Dont make Te another Erodov".
Erodov was simply another olx but a bit one in form of a forum.
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The guy selling 3600 wasn't selling at 40% discount. He has hence updated invoice. That's why I say mods should apply logic.
What mods want to do with it?
If someone wants to sell a Rog laptop for 10k its his wish. In such cases who is bothered whether its stolen, found in a park or otherwise. The seller gets free 10k for his free efforts while the buyer gets a lacs commodity at scrap rate.
If both are happy there's nothing to do for mods.
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My philosophy regarding this matter comes from this quote - 'Let a hundred guilty be acquitted, but one innocent should not be convicted'.
The policy should be to provide a justifying convincing answer.
If its not convincing then lock the thread. If his consistent sales are on the same lines ban him only for market section for a month or two.
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Agreed. As I mentioned earlier, we can make invoice mandatory for stuff being claimed to have remaining warranty. For non-warranty items, I don't have a clue. Anyone can say that the "invoice was lost, so no warranty" or "received as gift, so no invoice" even for pretty new items. Any suggestions to tackle these cases?
For gifts as well somewhere he will also require the bill right if something goes wrong with the item. So ask the seller selling gifted item to produce the bills.
Obviously the person gifting will never deny any bill for his gifts.
And what if the gift itself is a DOA? Wont the seller ask the gift giver for the bill?
Logic man!
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It's already happened. Multiple times. Seller is a very old member having sold maybe 100s of items. But that doesn't give him a free pass does it? I asked if the hard drive he's selling has an invoice and packaging. Puns deleted that and all other posts directly related to the item being sold claiming O/T. It's all in the other thread.
Well there is one more such privileged guy having done 100+ deals who has already claimed he is only interested in replying to queries he feels interested in.
What does that mean? He doesn't respect buyers nor their concerns and queries.
Selling stuff like rarely used or unused stuff as old as 2k16. Really?
Now who on this earth will believe a computer item rarely or never been used for 5 long years? Who is he fooling?
And when asked, mods said he doesn't need to post disk health or proofs for every devices. Joke!!!
So from thos one device state we should assume all devices are in excat same perfect condition..something like a plasma transplant thing going on here (identical)... awesome!
Again someone selling a brand new hard drive with 15 days warranty, now how come any manufacturer can provide just 15 days warranty on a brand new product?
Cant this be reselling, stolen or shady practice inside?
 
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NotMyRealName

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Well there is one more such privileged guy having done 100+ deals who has already claimed he is only interested in replying to queries he feels interested in.
What does that mean? He doesnt respect buyers nor their concerns and queries.
Selling stuff like rarely used or unused stuff as old as 2k16k.
Now who on this earth will believe having an computer item rarely or never been used for 5 long years? Who is he fooling?
And when asked, mods said he doesn't need to post disk health for every drives. Joke!
So from one disks health we should assume all disks share the same health aka plasma transplant thing going on here... awesome!
Again brand new hard drive with 15 days warranty, now how come any manufacturer can provide just a 15 days warranty on a brand new product?

I think we're talking about the same guy...

And i don't completely agree about invoices. As in many people don't keep invoices. Of course, if it's bought online, it's pretty easy to get some proof of purchase. Offline ones are the problem. But the issue here is someone selling many items without even any explanation about the source. That's what sounds shady. Not an individual who may have lost their bill.
 

dafreaking

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Brand new sometimes means new from RMA.. and the thing is one doesn;t know if it's refurbished/recertified or actually a new drive.
 

NotMyRealName

Well-Known Member
Skilled
Brand new sometimes means new from RMA.. and the thing is one doesn;t know if it's refurbished/recertified or actually a new drive.

All these kinds of explanations are perfectly acceptable for an individual sale. In fact one doesn't even need to dig so deep honestly.

It's when someone's selling items in bulk without any explanation as to the source, that people get suspicious.
 
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