Selling Stolen Products in Market section

[dafreaking]

All these kinds of explanations are perfectly acceptable for an individual sale. In fact one doesn't even need to dig so deep honestly.

It's when someone's selling items in bulk without any explanation as to the source, that people get suspicious.

I agree with you. I think multiple times before buying from peeps who half ass their for sale posts. and yeah. even if you have more than one item of the same type you should be putting scans, details, etc of EACH item.

JJMEHTA - The Photography Forum - Has super strict rules for For Sale posts. Thread instantly locked/removed if you don't follow them.

 

[red dragon]

I've been seeing threads where people are selling 10-20 SSDs, huge (4TB) HDDs, extremely expensive DAPs ( I am a complete noob on SSDs/HDDs and it's highly possible techies need them) but an AK DAP costing 1.5-2 L INR...don't think most people in India don't buy those by mistake and sell them at half price...even older models.
Audiophiles around the world use them with a power bank continuously attached ( if and when the battery reaches EOL)...you don't buy a 2000 USD DAP to sell it away after 3/4 years. You either sell it early ( and take a small loss) if the sound signature isn't preferred/ bad synergy with other gears, or you keep it for years.

 

[logistopath]

From what I understand, there are two major concerns to be addressed:

1. Proof of purchase of FS items
2. Over-moderation in market section

Both can be addressed, and we are very much willing to do so, if that will improve the market section.

For the first, we can make invoice or proof of purchase mandatory for all sale items that claim to have warranty. No invoice or proof of purchase = no claims of remaining warranty.

For the second, as @Renegade mentioned already, discussion relevant to the item on sale can be allowed. Asking for proof of purchase, HDD health reports, details of accessories, model numbers, etc.. are okay. Speculations, low-balling, advertising other sale threads, congratulatory posts, free bumps, etc. are a no-go.

Is there anything else that needs to be addressed?

 

[chetansha]

From what I understand, there are two major concerns to be addressed:

1. Proof of purchase of FS items
2. Over-moderation in market section

Both can be addressed, and we are very much willing to do so, if that will improve the market section.

For the first, we can make invoice or proof of purchase mandatory for all sale items that claim to have warranty. No invoice or proof of purchase = no claims of remaining warranty.

For the second, as @Renegade mentioned already, discussion relevant to the item on sale can be allowed. Asking for proof of purchase, HDD health reports, details of accessories, model numbers, etc.. are okay. Speculations, low-balling, advertising other sale threads, congratulatory posts, free bumps, etc. are a no-go.

Is there anything else that needs to be addressed?

How do you submit proof of purchase/ invoices for hard drives that are imported but carry global warranty ?
Also how about making a video of the item for sale, like the cpus which were sold as sealed ones, but turned out to be open box.

 

[thegr8anand]

I've been seeing threads where people are selling 10-20 SSDs, huge (4TB) HDDs, extremely expensive DAPs ( I am a complete noob on SSDs/HDDs and it's highly possible techies need them) but an AK DAP costing 1.5-2 L INR...don't think most people in India don't buy those by mistake and sell them at half price...even older models.
Audiophiles around the world use them with a power bank continuously attached ( if and when the battery reaches EOL)...you don't buy a 2000 USD DAP to sell it away after 3/4 years. You either sell it early ( and take a small loss) if the sound signature isn't preferred/ bad synergy with other gears, or you keep it for years.

A member is selling these and i am interested. He does seem genuine and has some good ratings and already sold some of them. Apparently for HDDs invoice is not necessary. As a buyer should i worry where he obtained it from?

How do you submit proof of purchase/ invoices for hard drives that are imported but carry global warranty ?
Also how about making a video of the item for sale, like the cpus which were sold as sealed ones, but turned out to be open box.

If they are imported then should be no problem mentioning it and can share invoice privately?

 

[nRiTeCh]

How do you submit proof of purchase/ invoices for hard drives that are imported but carry global warranty ?

Even if they are imported they must have been purchased from some site or physical shop so why not provide that invoice. Else anyone can buy at scrap rates from grey and sell here claiming genuine related to his friend or relative etc.

 

[chetansha]

Even if they are imported they must have been purchased from some site or physical shop so why not provide that invoice. Else anyone can buy at scrap rates from grey and sell here claiming genuine related to his friend or relative etc.

1) Ebay does not provide invoices ,maybe paypal ?
2) purchased via 3rd party shippers like ishop/icc world.
3) buying at lower rate is not necessarily gray? Like sometimes you get really good deals on one or 2 items

 

[NotMyRealName]

Even if they are imported they must have been purchased from some site or physical shop so why not provide that invoice. Else anyone can buy at scrap rates from grey and sell here claiming genuine related to his friend or relative etc.

Even if it's grey it's ok as long as they openly say so, so that buyers can make an informed purchase. Some people would be ok buying a grey market product without invoice and warranty if it's cheap. But i doubt someone would buy potentially stolen goods. When you have a frigging model number mismatch for a hard drive you know something's not kosher.

 

[thegr8anand]

Julian is right. It's ok if they purchased from overseas or a grey market product as long as they inform the buyer. But stolen products are a big no. Tbh they can still lie about it though.

 

[nRiTeCh]

1) Ebay does not provide invoices ,maybe paypal ?
2) purchased via 3rd party shippers like ishop/icc world.
3) buying at lower rate is not necessarily gray? Like sometimes you get really good deals on one or 2 items

Ebay/paypal/ishop etc. and transactional receipt will also suffice even if it doesn't mention item name. A link to that item can also help. If on ebay profile the order item is shown in your list that might as well help.
Not going too deep but convincing facts and figures helps here.
Gray means from ill-means not legit or unlawful etc.

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2020

Even if it's grey it's ok as long as they openly say so, so that buyers can make an informed purchase. Some people would be ok buying a grey market product without invoice and warranty if it's cheap. But i doubt someone would buy potentially stolen goods. When you have a frigging model number mismatch for a hard drive you know something's not kosher.

I think this happened recently with some hard drive sales the serial nos weren't matching or something..
And no one have guts to openly announce if it was grey or otherwise fearing ban, thread lock or losing trust here..

 

[chetansha]

What exactly is gray market.
Even parallel imports can come under "gray market, here import duty and taxes have been paid.
Now, when i used to deal in computer stuff in 2004-5, a modus operandi we found happening in market , like goods stolen from warehouses , auto rickshaw, shopa etc. used to enter market in cash only deals.
Some times a buyer cheats a vendor and runs away with material, this material resurfaces in market after some time. A reseller purchase it for 10 and sells for 14 when value of item is 15. The end customer is happy he got lesser price and from a shop

Yes this is common even today.

 

[ashoka1]

Sometime importers leaves their entire container of imported stuffs in docks.These stuffs can be anything from computer parts,cloths,electronics,machinenry etc.Govt then auctions those containers after giving notice to original owners.
There are several merchants at docks who buys them from auction at dirt cheap price and sells them to whole sellers at very cheap price and whole seller in market.I knows such a guy from kandla docks.
Bought several scuba tanks from him at less then 2k per piece while original price of such brand new scuba tanks in market is around 20k.
Also bought some 3M pelters(used in shooting) for rs 200 per piece and market price of same model is above 4K.These things mostly don't have bills
but if someone wants a bill they can provide if buyer is ready to give tax but normally people buys in bulk they don't worry about bills and these are legit items auctioned by govt itself.
regards

 

[letmein]

Sometime importers leaves their entire container of imported stuffs in docks.These stuffs can be anything from computer parts,cloths,electronics,machinenry etc.Govt then auctions those containers after giving notice to original owners.
There are several merchants at docks who buys them from auction at dirt cheap price and sells them to whole sellers at very cheap price and whole seller in market.I knows such a guy from kandla docks.
Bought several scuba tanks from him at less then 2k per piece while original price of such brand new scuba tanks in market is around 20k.
Also bought some 3M pelters(used in shooting) for rs 200 per piece and market price of same model is above 4K.These things mostly don't have bills
but if someone wants a bill they can provide if buyer is ready to give tax but normally people buys in bulk they don't worry about bills and these are legit items auctioned by govt itself.
regards

Seems like a prime opportunity to start a Storage Wars kind of TV show.

 

[izzner]

Sometime importers leaves their entire container of imported stuffs in docks.These stuffs can be anything from computer parts,cloths,electronics,machinenry etc.Govt then auctions those containers after giving notice to original owners.
There are several merchants at docks who buys them from auction at dirt cheap price and sells them to whole sellers at very cheap price and whole seller in market.I knows such a guy from kandla docks.
Bought several scuba tanks from him at less then 2k per piece while original price of such brand new scuba tanks in market is around 20k.
Also bought some 3M pelters(used in shooting) for rs 200 per piece and market price of same model is above 4K.These things mostly don't have bills
but if someone wants a bill they can provide if buyer is ready to give tax but normally people buys in bulk they don't worry about bills and these are legit items auctioned by govt itself.
regards

So basically tax ki chori...

And the tax chor comes and sells in the forum to make profit and again do tax ki chori..

Your logic is remarkable no wonder puns likes your post ..

 

[ashoka1]

Seems like a prime opportunity to start a Storage Wars kind of TV show.

Yaa only only difference is instead of 4,5 bidders here bidders will be more then thousand
regards

 

[vivek.krishnan]

From what I understand, there are two major concerns to be addressed:

1. Proof of purchase of FS items
2. Over-moderation in market section

Both can be addressed, and we are very much willing to do so, if that will improve the market section.

For the first, we can make invoice or proof of purchase mandatory for all sale items that claim to have warranty. No invoice or proof of purchase = no claims of remaining warranty.

For the second, as @Renegade mentioned already, discussion relevant to the item on sale can be allowed. Asking for proof of purchase, HDD health reports, details of accessories, model numbers, etc.. are okay. Speculations, low-balling, advertising other sale threads, congratulatory posts, free bumps, etc. are a no-go.

Is there anything else that needs to be addressed?

Price checks need to be allowed. But with proper links and screenshots. Consider it another form of moderation.

Could we have upvotes similar so if its too much downvoted, can be hidden? Should be for market posts mainly.

Once a sale is done, the price details should remain so that it can be used as a reference. And if the title itself can have closed tag would be great.

Finally, have a new class of mods which have lower powers or the like.

 

[letmein]

Yaa only only difference is instead of 4,5 bidders here bidders will be more then thousand
regards

I meant having people out on the port, bidding and shutting other people out.
Kinda like this:

 

[ashoka1]

So basically tax ki chori...

And the tax chor comes and sells in the forum to make profit and again do tax ki chori..

Your logic is remarkable no wonder puns likes your post ..

No tax is paid by bidder who wins auction.These things are considered second hand items and seller can sell them at any price he likes.
These things are sent to different parts of country trough transport and transport will not book items unless they have a bill.
I got those scuba tank trough transport with bill and tax was 1% of total value and total value was so low it effected nothing.
But at least these things are not stolen and seller here is not going to reveal his source when profit is 700,800%.Read my post about price what i paid and what is price in market.
If i had picked up say 10000 pieces prices would have been less then half of what i paid.Things i bought from is very small seller buying from main bidder and selling in retail 1,2 pieces.
think how many hard disk a container can carry

 

[JAK]

4 pages to go through
I too had noticed important posts getting deleted in the so called "clean up OT mission" done by puns
He was deleting posts from forum members asking for explanation about discrepancy from sellers

puns bro No offense but you have screwed up royally !

OP has made a good point though. One shouldn't sell something if he cant prove he owns it.

Post automatically merged: Sep 18, 2020

No tax is paid by bidder who wins auction.These things are considered second hand items and seller can sell them at any price he likes.
These things are sent to different parts of country trough transport and transport will not book items unless they have a bill.
I got those scuba tank trough transport with bill and tax was 1% of total value and total value was so low it effected nothing.
But at least these things are not stolen and seller here is not going to reveal his source when profit is 700,800%.Read my post about price what i paid and what is price in market.
If i had picked up say 10000 pieces prices would have been less then half of what i paid.Things i bought from is very small seller buying from main bidder and selling in retail 1,2 pieces.
think how many hard disk a container can carry

Bro you are mistaken. If you have purchased something and selling it at a profit you are doing business and you have to pay 30% tax on your profit.

It is tax theft even if you are selling second hand.

 

[codelad]

Feel that the bigger issue here is that of transparency and clarity from a seller.

In the open, don't think buyers mind too much about how the items are sourced ie. if they are stolen, grey market, with/without invoice etc., as long as they get it cheap enough.

But in a community such as here, it is imperative that some degree of self-policing takes place (within reason), both by mods and members alike. In the sense of "looking out for each other", say.

Like in the case where *reasonable* suspicion (backed by at least some degree of factual proof, IMHO) arises, of a seller selling stolen or illegally acquired items (the prime focus of this thread). Or a case of a seller (or even the buyer, in a complex case involving returns/refunds) intentionally withholding legit information or documentation essential for a fair sale, either by refusing to reveal it on request, or by remaining silent. And, the sale thread implied in this thread already by several others (me included), almost certainly comes under the latter.

It is my belief that any member must be allowed to interfere in a sale thread, to raise genuine queries/suspicions, as long as it is fact-based and relevant to the sale. This may occassionally mar a deal between the seller and a willing (and/or gullible) buyer, and yet may be the right thing to do.

At the moment, I feel that sale threads are forcefully restricted (perhaps a bit too rigidly) to the seller and potential buyers alone, with a certain mod deeming anything other than a "bump" or a "pm-ed you", worthy enough of categorical deletion. Again, just doesn't feel right.