Something is terribly wrong with India's Covid experts

[belictony]

Stay at home at least for the next few weeks! Don't rush in droves to vaccination centers.

Cos the government doesn't care. As if it wasn't obvious by now.

Why do you think govt. doesn’t care? Is it not the govt., who is managing the vaccine and providing them for free? Treating countless patients and help them recover?

I think you are dont realise that this is an unprecedented situation I,e one not seen or prepared for by countries.

 

[Chaos]

Why do you think govt. doesn’t care? Is it not the govt., who is managing the vaccine and providing them for free? Treating countless patients and help them recover?

I think you are dont realise that this is an unprecedented situation I,e one not seen or prepared for by countries.

Keep believing that. Please pray to your dear leader daily and drink enough gm coolaid.

 

[t3chg33k]

Why do you think govt. doesn’t care? Is it not the govt., who is managing the vaccine and providing them for free? Treating countless patients and help them recover?

I think you are dont realise that this is an unprecedented situation I,e one not seen or prepared for by countries.

The government has in the least mismanaged the situation. Opening up nearly everything after the peak of the first wave including promoting religious gatherings, conducting election rallies and allowing full attendance to cricket matches certainly sent the wrong message and contributed to the situation we are in now.

At the same time, the vaccination was being done at quite a leisurely pace. If it was not centralised to this extent and indeed if players like Pfizer were allowed to directly sell to private hospitals, I am sure a lot of the middle class would have paid to be vaccinated much earlier.

Now in the midst of the worst crisis, decentralizing everything to state governments will lead to even more disarray. This thing is not going to get over any time soon.

 

[belictony]

At the same time, the vaccination was being done at quite a leisurely pace. If it was not centralised to this extent and indeed if players like Pfizer were allowed to directly sell to private hospitals, I am sure a lot of the middle class would have paid to be vaccinated much earlier.

Middle class people wouldn’t have done anything because it would have turned out like the GPU market.

promoting religious gatherings, conducting election rallies and allowing full attendance to cricket matches - there are lot of businesses dependent on these activities and people working for those business. Election rallies are meant to happen because how would you reach the nook and corners of each village?. We can’t extend the current government tenure as that would be against democracy, similarly not having election rallies would result in people choosing the wrong leader.

 

[t3chg33k]

Middle class people wouldn’t have done anything because it would have turned out like the GPU market.

promoting religious gatherings, conducting election rallies and allowing full attendance to cricket matches - there are lot of businesses dependent on these activities and people working for those business. Election rallies are meant to happen because how would you reach the nook and corners of each village?. We can’t extend the current government tenure as that would be against democracy, similarly not having election rallies would result in people choosing the wrong leader.

None of them are vital over public health. Nothing is in isolation and you need to take a measured approach, but the messaging hasn't been great in a country where a lot of the population is not particularly disciplined to begin with.

The fact that Pfizer was denied entry in Feb based on need for local trials at a time when none of the other vaccines completed Phase 3 trials, combined with the fact that they are now courting Pfizer with emergency use approval simply indicates a lack of foresight.

There is bound to be a huge surge in demand when vaccination is opened up at large, but I am not sure how doing it at the worst possible time in the midst of a shortage is going to make things better.

 

[roofrider]

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Have seen so many senior citizens panicking and rushing to get the second dose in a month in midst of shortage and fear of having to compete with the 18+ crowd from May onwards, to the same hospitals which are now overflowing with patients. The communication should be much better than this. Cowin continues to allow people to schedule the second dose (Covishield) at exactly a month and doesn't have any information on the suggested gaps between doses upfront.

Thanks for that link, imma past it on. Does Cowin only allow scheduling the 2nd dose at exactly a month with no possibility of scheduling it for later or do you just mean there's no official communication regarding gaps from them?

I guess people are rushing for 2nd dose because they believe it'll increase their immunity considering how it is peaking now, as well as the reason you mentioned. If people can hold out for 2 more weeks and hopefully this flattens by then, it'll be easier to convince the seniors to wait for the 12-week period to be over.

 

[red dragon]

Section 505(1) of Indian Penal Code, 1860: The punishment for making, publishing or circulating any statement, rumour or report which may cause fear or alarm to the public, or to any section of the public.

Punishment: Imprisonment which may extend to 3 years or fine or both.

Section 66D of Information Technology Act: Whoever, by means for any communication device or computer resource cheats by personating.

..

Read more at:
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Why exactly should I get in touch with my local doctor? What should I ask him?

God forbid if someone you know gets sick...
Regarding IPC etc. IT IS CLEARLY WRITTEN IN PARK' S TEXTBOOK OF PREVENTIVE AND SOCIAL MEDICINE...active vaccination programs are contraindicated during and epidemic with high transmission rate.
That's the only community medicine textbook taught in each and every medical college.
I think government of India should arrest the editors of the Bible of community medicine in India before me!!
Buddy, I live far away from any Indian jurisdiction and have enough epidemiologist friends and colleagues for support.
As the confidentiality agreement has expired, guess now I can safely upload my contract with ICMR, how much money they paid for planning as "foreign consultation expenses for unnatural disaster management" and how much I donated in PM care funds, Didi's donation funds in West Bengal ( didn't keep a
single penny from Indian taxpayers, yet I'm a foreigner with no concept of reality in India, my faults: I'm too greedy to work in India and got married to an European!!)

@red dragon - what are your thoughts on this? Is he also suggesting aggressive vaccination in the current situation of raging infection?

View attachment 104625

I've enormous respect for Dr. Fauci, pulmonology would have been incomplete without his lifetime contribution.
But this picture doesn't clearly state what he mentioned about India's present scenario.
Sure, vaccines are the only effective PROPHYLAXIS known till date and vaccination must be done very rapidly.
But he never said this is the perfect time for vaccination
You don't give prophylaxis to an active patient, you treat him/ her first.
@Chaos posted a brilliant youtube video where Dr.Bossche clarifies all the doubts regarding vaccination, the dangers of lockdown, massive importance of innate immunity and MOST IMPORTANTLY how vaccination can be dangerous with very high levels of community transmission.

I'm re-posting this brilliant interview again...chaos found it from the thousands of garbage videos uploaded in Youtube.
If you have doubts on Dr. Bossche's credibility, read his papers on Google scholar.
He didn't submit his vaccine related paper ( which is a goldmine, with direct references from textbooks, a rarity these days) to any prestigious journal ( after a certain level, your
qualifications don't matter, as everyone in that level is equally qualified, experience doesn't matter as one can spend years in a top position with zero contribution, only thing that matters is the quality of your publications)
...he published it on LinkedIn ( has no value whatsoever in field of medicine)
Why he did it ( basically like throwing away a great paper) ?
He was pained and horrified by the amount of misconception around a great discovery in record time, which may defeat the entire purpose of vaccination.
There are literally thousands of papers on covid vaccines, but how many dared to talk about innate immunity, medical problems arising from lockdown? Possibly none. He literally blew away his entire career ( a non medical person will think he's an anti vaccine person from this paper, in reality his entire career is based on vaccines!!)
Read it carefully, beautiful piece of work...
Another example is Dr. Arnab Sengupta, a brilliant teacher of physiology has a similar paper. Sorry, I can't upload it here, without his permission, but I will someday ( he was threatned for his life and pulled it from Journal of Indian Medical Association, a cesspool of ignorant, prejudiced group of cowards, who refuse to read textbooks and rely on their flawed, completely outdated and illogical ''experience" which has killed hundreds of patients)
It doesn't matter, if I work for WHO or practice in a dingy chamber earning less than a few thousand EUR, driving a Maruti/ Nano.

 

[calvin1719]

similarly not having election rallies would result in people choosing the wrong leader.

lmao this says all that I need to know about your thought processes.

 

[tech.monk]

similarly not having election rallies would result in people choosing the wrong leader.

Isn't cancelling exams will do the same - getting students promoted - if exam can be cancelled then why not elections.

Also see the difference in positivity rate of the states going for election during campaigning and post that - clearly number manipulation or underreporting so the elections go smooth.

No need to say that most of the rallies saw no social distancing/no masks.

 

[sauravghosh]

Govt. govt. govt. The top members of the presiding govt. are comparable with feces. I never doubted that. But please stop blaming them for everything, especially the chimpanzees who cannot follow simple things like wearing a proper mask, use sanitiser and maintain physical distancing, and not go out of home unless absolutely needed. Our DNA has problem. We cannot stay at home and spend time with the family, can we? Even under this terrible circumstances did we see any reduction in gathering of these morons for their evening adda at the road side tea shops? Nope. The subject of discussion just has changed from culturing neighborhood people, talking them behind their backs to Corona related matters. I mean they are all experts, but with a cigarette/ bidi and baby nunu sized tea cups in their hands, and obviously that dirty filthy 2 rupee cotton mask hanging by their balls (not that they have it anyway).

No govt. can do anything about it. If people of this country were normal then the spread would have been much much less. Govt. arranged election, why would people go and vote? They allowed kumbh BS, why people visited? The core of the problem is us, the lack of common sense thereof, no matter who comes in power, it's irrelevant. We are all literate and educated on paper but when it comes to applicability, we are worse off than a taxi driver in say any Western nation.

 

[belictony]

lmao this says all that I need to know about your thought processes.

You must be Charles Xavier

 

[Muathaz]

the lack of common sense thereof

this.

@red dragon thank you for starting this thread. and really appreciate your inputs.

 

[red dragon]

Nah!! It was a bad idea. People can always PM me anytime.
I'm out of vaccine discussion. God bless you all.

 

[iPwnz]

Because some tests taken in my state have shown different results.

Another case came out yesterday but wasn't published in the mainstream media. They said its due to fear of the govt's retaliation.
It's like covid cases in my state depends on our CM's mood of the day lol.

Don't rush in droves to vaccination centers. You would not want to be vaccinated if there is even a remote chance that you are covid positive.

This here is important. Imagine going to get vaccine and being in a crowd. Already getting infected without yourself being aware of it. Then getting the vaccine. Would it help? :|

We are all literate and educated on paper but when it comes to applicability, we are worse off than a taxi driver in say any Western nation.

That honestly would be an insult to those taxi drivers.
We are incomprehensible idiots others could write their Ph.D thesis on it.

 

[TEUser2K1]

Extreme poverty, which breeds selfishness and morons is the real problem.

Though govt. and politicians played a huge part in fuming up this second wave, Indians were euphoric after share market went up like rocket.
And then media channels already started playing victory music prematurely, celebrities started showing their featherless chicken images from neighboring country frigging Maldives. Copying them young people started traveling all around, etc.

Even now, can't convince people in own home to stay cautious and careful, they look at you like you are paranoid idiot or something.

Unfortunately, our govt. calculative, plays petty politics, try to blame others (states) for issues and want to take more control from states exploiting this opportunity, is fudging up data which is a very huge issue. We can only take care of our-self, not others, in this situation.

 

[iPwnz]

Extreme poverty, which breeds selfishness and morons is the real problem.

So true. I only came to understand it a little over a year or so ago and then things became more clear during the lockdown Many of the poorer sections are very very selfish. I was involved in many voluntary and social welfare activities during the lockdown and my gad, they tried to hoard everything even those meant for others. That was a shocking experience for me. For example in the case of water we gave 300L-500L per family but on the inside they drew out those water to other containers saying it's not full yet lol. This went on for weeks. Same for rice and other food grains donated by the govt and other generous Samaritans.

 

[red dragon]

It's probably not selfishness, just struggle for survival.
The magnitude of poverty in India often goes unnoticed, I've been to areas of Africa, where almost the entire country is very poor. Even some parts of Romania are extremely underdeveloped and poor. But didn't witness this sort of desperation.
India is a country of extremes.

 

[TEUser2K1]

In India, there is a kind of tolerance towards being in-humane street smarts who win in desperate human situations.

Especially visible in cities like Mumbai (where I lived majority of my life). So entrenched, it is difficult to explain.

Had a talk with few Africans who I found had a kind of dislike for Indians. According to them, specific communities from with chronic selfish business mind had historically bad reputation there. He talked about a corrput Indian who took all government given facilities to help people during Edi Amin crises and profited from abject misery of other Indians. How he became very rich but later how his children suffered sad fate in their life. One of the reasons why there are bad feelings about Indians there, etc. Some Indians take their pettiness wherever they go.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@iPwnz Similar attitude was seen during floods charity drive in Kerala 2yrs back.

A person who liked to do donations arranged an entire mini-truck of Dove soap, other sanitary items like tooth paste, etc. in flood hit area. Some women didn't want Dove, since they only use Rexona and similar random brands !
Same way, there were selective about colors of dress they received, because somebody else already donated dress of same design earlier !
Later there were reports about loads of flood relief material being wasted.
Not isolated cases, but tons of weird incidents like this.

A girl who worked as volunteer for NGO said she was flabbergasted and many volunteers got frustrated because of such attitudes.

Personally donated 8K to an NGO group during TN floods. 5 trucks were sent to TN which was held up by political party workers - demanding unless their then leader's pic /party seal (in/famous leader passed away recently, you'll know who she was) is printed on items, those cannot the dispersed. Trucks were held ~6hours to arrange this. We sadly had to pay extra to transporting company who had to work in extremely stressful situation, even arranged video calls to verify what is happening.

Stopped giving donations after one more incident which hurt me personally. Now, only help those individuals around my circles, whom genuinely I know need help.

 

[icysmoke]

Govt. govt. govt. The top members of the presiding govt. are comparable with feces. I never doubted that. But please stop blaming them for everything, especially the chimpanzees who cannot follow simple things like wearing a proper mask, use sanitiser and maintain physical distancing, and not go out of home unless absolutely needed. Our DNA has problem. We cannot stay at home and spend time with the family, can we? Even under this terrible circumstances did we see any reduction in gathering of these morons for their evening adda at the road side tea shops? Nope. The subject of discussion just has changed from culturing neighborhood people, talking them behind their backs to Corona related matters. I mean they are all experts, but with a cigarette/ bidi and baby nunu sized tea cups in their hands, and obviously that dirty filthy 2 rupee cotton mask hanging by their balls (not that they have it anyway).

No govt. can do anything about it. If people of this country were normal then the spread would have been much much less. Govt. arranged election, why would people go and vote? They allowed kumbh BS, why people visited? The core of the problem is us, the lack of common sense thereof, no matter who comes in power, it's irrelevant. We are all literate and educated on paper but when it comes to applicability, we are worse off than a taxi driver in say any Western nation.

The problem is those who exposed themselves will also occupy the beds which will cause shortages for everyone including those who didn't go to large congregations.

That's why the govts need to act. Because reckless people will impact the lives of the cautious folks as well. And if the cautious folks can't be protected even if they follow all norms, then they would feel why are they even taxed. Taxes should bring some benefits as well. You can't tell us that because some folks decided to expose themselves, we can't protect you but we will still continue to tax you.