The Aam Admi Party

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So now that the Lieutenant Governor of Delhi has offered to send the cop in Somnath Bharti's midnight raid on leave, Kejrival calls off his dharna.

This wasn't about women's safety. This wasn't about getting Delhi cops under the Delhi administration. This wasn't about law and order.

It was about the bruised ego of BatmanBharti!

Well done jee! Truly an AAM administration.
 
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True it was completely immature and as they thought they were losing the once recieved public support, they had to take what ever face savers congress has offered and return back. Which is what had happened.
Looks like AAP doesnt know difference about having evidences and just allegations. They looked foolish as they tarnished their own image by 1) troubling the commuters 2) accepting the face savers (they had no other options) 3) doing this in the eve of Jan 26th (which other political parties used as a weapon against AAP)
But looknig at the current scenario, aam admi can only give this AAP another chance and just forget the compelte episode like it never happened.
 
Lord Nemesis said:
On what basis? Was there any evidence to indicate that the particular women who were targeted were involved in said acts? What Somnath Bharthi was asking the police to do was illegal. There is due process to be followed. Even if police were really not cooperating, taking the law into his hands and harassing innocent foreigners is definitely not the way this should have been handled. How would you feel if a Neta like him barged into your house and dragged you and your family members on to the street and behaves in a similar manner without any investigation because a few people who don't like you decided to put some false allegations on you?

Its definitely true that a lot of poor African students are targeted by Indian con men and enticed with prospects of better education in India to bring them here and when they come here, they are forced into prostitution or drug trade. But we don't know whether this true in this case. Without proper investigation, how can this minister take such action. How can he order someone to be arrested or detained without any evidence. How can he take the law into his own hands and get away with it.
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EVIDENCE IS COLLECTED BY THE POLICE ---> DURING AND AFTER THE POLICE RAID.
The complainant doesn't have to provide evidence just complain!
If you call the police saying there is a thief in your house, do you take a picture of him to show as proof for them to take action while he is in your house? What stupid logic are you using?

Somnath is an idiot for not backing off when the police refused to do its duty. He should have gone back and next day kicked those official's ass. But that's where inexperience comes in. Guess its a lesson well learnt for the whole party.
 
I think this a case of "Sau choohe khakar billi chali haj ko". All these political parties that are crying foul over the "trouble" delhites had to face, are also the ones that routinely call for complete bandhs, break buses, offices and do all sorts of nefarious activities. So common are these that even the media ignores them now. But hey, pick up a genuine cause and all these cunts are invited to take your case.

Yesterday on one of the Zee news Channels, the AAP spokes person raised the same point, that dharnas and bandhs are a way of protest and everyone does them, that they infact didnt even ask the metros to be stopped, its was the police and home ministry that did it, but he wasnt even allowed to speak. The reporter cut him point blank and said no I wont let you talk about that. WTF ?

Unbiased media has gone down the drain. There is propoganda being run on most channels. Infact NDTV, CNN IBN and AAJtak seem like the only three neutral channels that are actually DEBATING the issuse instead of just pelting stones on AAP.

From what I saw on twitter and even random people,everyone understand the stunts by congress and BJP, how suddenly public inconvenience is a big thing for them, when ususally they are the ones doing it. Arun Jaitley, from the party with the Babri Masjid demolition fame, giving sermons on Anarchy?!?! LOOOOL

I think Indians are very smart. Anyone who has seen or heard a complete statement by any AAP spokes person knows that they are just being crucified for propaganda. If anything AAP's holier-than-thou image has got a dark shadow that relates to well intentioned naivety than mass-corruption or communalism.

Anyway, I guess AAP learnt their lesson, and they'l be smarter now that they know that people perceive a party in power differently.
 
sid_donnydarko said:
Ummm disorderly conduct/disturbing the peace and theft are not one and the same. In today's modern world, the local residents could've captured a video of drunken behaviour/misconduct in public. But a police officer should've responded to the complaint and paid the locality a visit. Also, why would our policemen protect foreigners instead of our own? Its very likely that the police found the complaints to be unsubstantiated; filed by bored nationalistic locals. But i could be wrong. In the past, i have found that elderly citizens unfairly blame the younger generation when they move into the neighbourhood. The fact that "soft targets" like foreigners are involved only encourages them to create more mischief. Unless there exists solid evidence, i'm not going to believe that a sex racket prevailed when it really was young foreigners enjoying their youth.

Somnath's should have picked a quarrel with the negligent police station. This was a cowardly act of revenge. There are no two ways of looking at it.
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So you speculate about everything that would corner AAP, but you rule out the part which is very likely which is the simple fact that these sex and drug rackets run in collusion with police!
Police in India is a weird bunch and the root of a lot of evils in India, don't justify them just for cornering a stupid minister.

Drug abuse, Prostitution and possible non-consentual sex trade is not a small matter. Some would say a theft would sound petty in front of these crimes.

PS- Im all for legalizing prostitution, but illegal prostitution leads to the sex workers living a terrible life and targeted time and again by police and sundry for "Hafta" or their share in the business for simply letting it run. Lets not get ahead of ourselves and start thinking of the police as angels from heaven.
 
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Party Monger said:
EVIDENCE IS COLLECTED BY THE POLICE ---> DURING AND AFTER THE POLICE RAID.
The complainant doesn't have to provide evidence just complain!
If you call the police saying there is a thief in your house, do you take a picture of him to show as proof for them to take action while he is in your house? What stupid logic are you using?

Somnath is an idiot for not backing off when the police refused to do its duty. He should have gone back and next day kicked those official's ass. But that's where inexperience comes in. Guess its a lesson well learnt for the whole party.
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Oh Please.... What sort of stupid logic is running in your mind if you are really trying to say that I can go to the police and file a bogus complaint of drug or prostitution racket against anybody I don't like or want to see harassed and the police can just barge into their house and drag them out? Human rights may be a big joke in our country, but our country would be much much worse if anybody can be dragged off just because a few people banded together to file a complaint. What is to say that people who complained are not prejudiced (or racist and don't like blacks living in their colony) or had some motive in mind and deliberately trying to cause trouble for these foreign women. I have seen such things happen first hand where a few people band together to file bogus complaints with colony management or even police to get people to leave their colony. In fact something similar even happened to a classmate of mine when he was in Delhi. His landlord wanted to get rid of them without notice, but still wanted to keep the 4 months advance. So he banded together with a few neighbors and threatened to create trouble for him.

Getting a search warrant requires that you have some preliminary evidence to prove that whoever complained might be right. Preventing a crime in progress is not same as investigating a crime after it happened. If a lady calls the police and says that she is being attacked, the police attend to it to prevent the crime and apprehend the criminal red handed. If a lady complains that she was attacked by somebody after the attack, her statement would be recorded as evidence, she would be examined to ascertain that she was attacked and then further proceeding would be initiated if there is sufficient evidence to prove her case.

And yeah, Somnath is not an idiot at all and neither is Aravind Kejriwal. Clearly, power has already gone to their heads. After Somnath and his goons sexually harassed the women, just just look at the drama they did together last two days to save their collective hide and get the police officer who did absolutely nothing wrong penalized instead.. look at the way they shamelessly produced a year old unrelated document and claiming that the Ugandan embassy officials met them and thanked them for their antics. What next? If they ever get control over Delhi Police, may be AAP goons would even get special privileges to harass or rape women on Delhi streets.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...woman-identifies-him/articleshow/29200255.cms

"We were attacked on Wednesday night by Indians who were led by Somnath Bharti ... We were harassed, we were beaten, they were having long sticks. They said we should leave their country or else they would kill us one by one," the Ugandan national said.
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"These Ugandan women have alleged that they were beaten and groped sexually. On what basis do you deem these allegations to be false? Is it the government's contention that only 'ma, behen, beti' are entitled to safety and dignity - and that prostitutes can be left to the mercy of moralistic mobs?

"Without any other evidence, can women be forced to undergo drug tests only because of their race and nationality? The drug tests and cavity searches to which these women were subjected, turned up negative: when do you plan to apologise to them for the false allegation and the indignity, not to mention the groping they suffered at the hands of your minister's supporters?," the letter said.
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"According to the Africans and their Indian friends, the Malviya Nagar SHO Vijay Pal had acted to protect the African women on the night of the raid. Today, this SHO has been penalized - for failing to obey the orders of the minister who expected him to indiscriminately raid the homes of all people of African nationalities," the letter said.
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Nothing was found against the women in their medical tests. On the other hand, there is plenty against Somnath Bharati and his goons to prove their involvement. But yet the case is still filed as againist "unknown persons" and that is how it goes till evidence is collected.
 
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sid_donnydarko said:
Running a 64k connection. Can't watch the video. I assumed he was talking about FDI and matters like he did in the video posted in the previous page. What was the interview about?

I still disagree with some points regarding his take on retail FDI.
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In this one he made some fair points about this "dharna" (or whatever) by the AAP and pointed out how it was a failure of Congress and the AAP in many ways. A large part of it sounded sensible. Nothing to do with FDI or any other issue.
 
Somnath Bharti is an idiot who must be suspended, or at best, thrown out from the party for his reckless behaviour. Being frustrated with police and protesting about it is fine, but what he and his goons did with the women, or anyone for that matter, shouldn't be tolerated.

Herd mentality is dangerous in India, especially considering how bigoted most of the public is on social matters.
 
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And the truth is out. All it took was one unbiased news channel to do the logical thing. Ask the people of that area.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=461083937324705
So apparently this whole bunch of people, along with a whole party is lying. My faith is restored, and it explains Somnath's actions. I frankly don't think those Ugandan women are telling the truth about urinating in public either. It seems like scripted replied that the police offered them to say to the media.

So @asingh , are these people lying? :)
 
Lord Nemesis said:
Oh Please.... What sort of stupid logic is running in your mind if you are really trying to say that I can go to the police and file a bogus complaint of drug or prostitution racket against anybody I don't like or want to see harassed and the police can just barge into their house and drag them out? Human rights may be a big joke in our country, but our country would be much much worse if anybody can be dragged off just because a few people banded together to file a complaint. What is to say that people who complained are not prejudiced (or racist and don't like blacks living in their colony) or had some motive in mind and deliberately trying to cause trouble for these foreign women. I have seen such things happen first hand where a few people band together to file bogus complaints with colony management or even police to get people to leave their colony. In fact something similar even happened to a classmate of mine when he was in Delhi. His landlord wanted to get rid of them without notice, but still wanted to keep the 4 months advance. So he banded together with a few neighbors and threatened to create trouble for him.

Getting a search warrant requires that you have some preliminary evidence to prove that whoever complained might be right. Preventing a crime in progress is not same as investigating a crime after it happened. If a lady calls the police and says that she is being attacked, the police attend to it to prevent the crime and apprehend the criminal red handed. If a lady complains that she was attacked by somebody after the attack, her statement would be recorded as evidence, she would be examined to ascertain that she was attacked and then further proceeding would be initiated if there is sufficient evidence to prove her case.

And yeah, Somnath is not an idiot at all and neither is Aravind Kejriwal. Clearly, power has already gone to their heads. After Somnath and his goons sexually harassed the women, just just look at the drama they did together last two days to save their collective hide and get the police officer who did absolutely nothing wrong penalized instead.. look at the way they shamelessly produced a year old unrelated document and claiming that the Ugandan embassy officials met them and thanked them for their antics. What next? If they ever get control over Delhi Police, may be AAP goons would even get special privileges to harass or rape women on Delhi streets.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...woman-identifies-him/articleshow/29200255.cms

Nothing was found against the women in their medical tests. On the other hand, there is plenty against Somnath Bharati and his goons to prove their involvement. But yet the case is still filed as againist "unknown persons" and that is how it goes till evidence is collected.
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Bullshit. If someone says they have seen prostitution take place, women offereing rates to random passer by's Police is obligated to check out the situation! That person's testimony is preliminary evidence. The onus of gathering proof is on the police not the citizen. I dont know which books of law you read cause you seem to be justifying it with pedestrian logic and one off situations, but law is not made according to exceptions.

Stop passing off bullshit and pedestrian logic as gospel. Rather read up and see. Person complains, police registers complains, investigates and asks around, gathers preliminary proof, gets a warrant and then conducts search , seizure and arrests. That's the procedure, not some fantasy law you conjured up to prosecute people on media reports.

In the present case they had everything and just needed to get a warrant which they refused cause the police is hand in glove in these rackets. Explains most of the incident.
 
Party Monger said:
And the truth is out. All it took was one unbiased news channel to do the logical thing. Ask the people of that area.

So apparently this whole bunch of people, along with a whole party is lying. My faith is restored, and it explains Somnath's actions. I frankly don't think those Ugandan women are telling the truth about urinating in public either. It seems like scripted replied that the police offered them to say to the media.

So @asingh , are these people lying? :)
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@Party Monger : Even you know, how easy it is to garner these replies from a selected group of people. The media can spin aspects in any manner they wish. It is a game of tic-tac-toe. It is not about who is lying or is truthful, but the manner in which Somnath conducted his activities is what is shocking. It will scare the minorities and foreign nationals, is that so difficult for you to comprehend. Why this whole ruckus has hit the fan...? As you are saying those Ugandan ladies could have script-replied, so even this video 'could' be the same (though I am not saying they are). A witch-hunt is a witch-hunt, and that is what was done. Or were they trying some Tehelka type sting operation.

EDIT:
Also something which you did not comment on, when Somnath annexed the 24 x 7, asking for a license. Late at night. Could he not wait till morning, or have come 4-5 hours before. Mid-night raid. It speaks a lot for his antics and behavioral mechanisms. When civilians take up to rioting and barging the doors of fellow-men, it is time to put in a check and be vary. They might next come into my house, and rifle the rooms. It scares me. I am really not sure, how you can be comfortable with all this. It reminds me of the Third Reich, seriously.
 
asingh said:
@Party Monger : Even you know, how easy it is to garner these replies from a selected group of people. The media can spin aspects in any manner they wish. It is a game of tic-tac-toe. It is not about who is lying or is truthful, but the manner in which Somnath conducted his activities is what is shocking. It will scare the minorities and foreign nationals, is that so difficult for you to comprehend. Why this whole ruckus has hit the fan...? As you are saying those Ugandan ladies could have script-replied, so even this video 'could' be the same (though I am not saying they are). A witch-hunt is a witch-hunt, and that is what was done. Or were they trying some Tehelka type sting operation.

EDIT:
Also something which you did not comment on, when Somnath annexed the 24 x 7, asking for a license. Late at night. Could he not wait till morning, or have come 4-5 hours before. Mid-night raid. It speaks a lot for his antics and behavioral mechanisms. When civilians take up to rioting and barging the doors of fellow-men, it is time to put in a check and be vary. They might next come into my house, and rifle the rooms. It scares me. I am really not sure, how you can be comfortable with all this. It reminds me of the Third Reich, seriously.
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So basically everyone in favour of AAP is lying? At best isnt there a preliminary case for a Law minister to take note if police isnt doing its job? Its not vigilantism, its what you could call over excitedness. Losing the sight of the plot while eagerly trying to help. The ugandian ladies fell on the wrong side of these, but I seriously doubt their statements. It seemed very scripted to me.Much more than random citizens being interviewed.

This write up adequately covers my POV. http://thehoot.org/web/ThemediasattitudetoAAP/7255-1-1-10-true.html
Have a read.

For those who TL;DR, Here's the gist -
1) The full video which allegedly captures the whole event isnt shown. Arvind Kejriwal and Yogendra Yadav demanded that video be made public first thing. Pretty sure they can censor the image of the woman peeing if necessary. The fact that it was not done makes me very suspicious. They only show the part where he is arguing.

I'l add more in a bit.
 
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@Party Monger Even if there was an organized crime racket going on there, the way it was handled means the criminals would go scotfree. Not following the due process, even when everything is against your side, isn't a rational behaviour.

I'm a supporter of AAP, but I don't like the way the law minister handled the incident. It is a disaster in the making if such behaviour continues.[DOUBLEPOST=1390479241][/DOUBLEPOST]
letmein said:
^But police can't enter a private residence on basis of a complaint alone. They need a warrant.
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They don't need a warrant if the complaint suggests evidence of a crime(s) or a felon(s) being holed up in the property. What you are talking about is non-emergency situations, or when the police want to question you. You can refuse to let them in then.

The way police work in India, it means they can do whatever they want with this loophole. Either look away when a serious crime is going on, or barge into some innocent person's home claiming otherwise. Who is going to deter them unless the one getting harassed has "connections"?
 
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