The Israel/Palestine conflict

[Nikhil]

@Hacker ---- Try reading the book EXODUS by Lean Uris.

Written by a jew so heavily tilted in favour of the Jews.... but gives you a lot of history.

And as for links as such, I dont have many. I remember reading abt it looong back.

The history as such is this.

The Jews had been asking for a country of their own for a looooong time. Jews were being persecuted in most countries. Austria, Russia, and many more. I guess UK and US were the 2 safest countries for them. In many other places they had to live in ghettos.... special areas only for jews. These areas were terrible living conditions.

and anyway Palestine at that time was ruled by Britain. The Jews kept asking for their own nation in that area.

the Britishers were afraid of pissing off them Arabs who realised that they had the world by it's ba**s because these Arabs were sitting on oil. TOns and tons of it.

So, the Britishers told the Jews "Fight with us in WW 1 and we will give you Israel". The Jews fought alongside them. But then the Britishers again said "get lost".... for the same reason.... not to piss of the arabs.

after WW2 and the Holocaust, world sympathy was with the jews. And they continued to press their demand for their own country called Israel and they wanted the area around Jerusalem.

And by this time, UK had realised that the days of colonialism and imperialism was over. They decided to hand over an area of Palestine to the jews.....

and since the whole was feeling guilty for having done nothing to stop Hitler, they all agreed(through the United Nations) to form a new country called Israel.

Israel was formed in 1948. Immediately, ALL the arab countries declared war. Israel was surrounded by enemies.... Jordan, Egypt, Iran, Palestine, etc....

I think 3 wars were fought.... This is where I admire the Israelis... they were outnumbered heavily.... I mean 3 large arab countries against one newly formed Israeli country.

Of course, the Israelis could get lot of weapons mainly from US and France. Again all thanks to sympathy.

They won all the wars and ISrael as a nation was stable. The best part was the way they thrashed the Egypt air force before they could eevn get off the ground...... I dont remember in which war that was.... Either the 6-day war or the Yom Kippur war.

And since then, the Arabs and the jews have always been enemies.

Things got really bad in 2000 when Israel illegally occupied MORE Palestine land. Gaza Strip, West bank, Golan heights, etc..... Since then it has been really bad.

I think suicide attacks on Israel had already started before that.....

EDIT: Check out this link.... read through all of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel

 

[Anticlocked]

may all who live die!may the undead rise!!may the frozen throne reign!!!

hmm,all bull war,waste of everthin,i dont understand y they dont just unite and make a country like palesrail

 

[KHUBBU]

Once u convert to Islam u r no longer an Aryan, but an agent of the devil.But yes the true Sanksritized Indo-europeans who laid the foundation of Bharat created the caste system for a pupose: maintenance of genetic purity, which is still evident though in sadly in much diluted form in the DNA of the upper castes particularly Kshatriyas and Pandits,their DNA is much closer to that of Euopeans than the others on the sub-continent.

Very informative thread indeed. hyeah: .......................Rofl

@Hacker
Have a look on "Oh Jerusalem" by Dominque Lapierre & Larry Collins

 

[Aces170]

Once u convert to Islam u r no longer an Aryan, but an agent of the devil.But yes the true Sanksritized Indo-europeans who laid the foundation of Bharat created the caste system for a pupose: maintenance of genetic purity, which is still evident though in sadly in much diluted form in the DNA of the upper castes particularly Kshatriyas and Pandits,their DNA is much closer to that of Euopeans than the others on the sub-continent.

HUH, that is the most baseless argument I have come across supporting caste system. Looking at your statement, I suppose you sympathise with hitler's cause too.

But seriously man, you sound exactly like those hardliner islamist, you hate. If you dont follow Islam, you will land up in hell etc....

I tell you atheism should be promoted moreso of this cause only...

 

[Nikhil]

I tell you atheism should be promoted moreso of this cause only...

Exactly!!! As I said in one of my previous posts..... religion is another way of dividing the world... and the caste system in India is absolutely pathetic.... For everything, there is the caste system....

And I was wondering what took you so long to reply in this thread

 

[Aces170]

That is an eternal falsehood of Nehruvian/Marxist version of Indian history.As many including my favorite authority on the subject Sir Naipaul have pointed out if what you say was indeed true,why do the lower castes not convert to Islam now(except for some political gimmicks maybe!).What about the scores of Brahmin children adbucted by the Muslims and converted to Islam just to insult us(do not ask how I know this)?What about Qutub-Minar and I dunno whatever mosque that stands on remains of Hindu/jain temples.
What about the Brahmins in Tamil Nadu?
Shiva sainiks are loons but the RSS,their costume apart,have done a world of good for our nation.

Duh, lower castes dont convert now simply becasue instead of being at an disadvantage they are now at now at uber advantage, with all the reservations etc. Nowhere in this country is a specific caste not allowed to take up a profession of his/her choice. Thats the reason no conversion now.

Hmm regarding Brahmin kids being abducted ... How come I miss the news ? Regading Qutub Minar et all, let them be bygones. World was less civilised those days, accept that. Its not that Hindu's and Muslims cant get along come in Mumbai and I will show you tens of mosques built right besides temples. Its just the bloody hardliners on both the sides who ignite things up.

OT : Islam though is one tough religion. There is this one society in Jogeshwari, Mumbai. Some Gujrat Muslims society, comprising of 10 or so bldgs with more then 500 flats etc... The entire society forbids any modern entertainment etc. Not a single flat out there has TV or Computer etc. Life is really tough being a chaste moslem.. You cant drink, or .....

 

[Aces170]

@Hacker
Have a look on "Oh Jerusalem" by Dominque Lapierre & Larry Collins

I am just reading their other book, freedom at midnight where I got all the caste system info. Amazing authors I must say, and yeah I so badly want to read O jerusalem, as well as " Is Paris Burning "

 

[Shripad]

The problem lies in the foundation of nation.

When a nation is formed based on religion there are always long lasting impact of the same.

With sooo many jews scattered all along the world there was technically no need of Israel. And not the way it was done. When a occupied area is vacated there is ought to be rage twords that.

It goes not matter if it was traditionally Jewish or not. People were living there and one fine day someone like US and Britan decides this part of the land to be given to jewish country and you expect people to simply leave???

Hell in democratic world even the god damn illegal slums are not demolished without rehab these days. And you are making a whole country??????

I would never justify the logic behind the foundation of Israel.

As far as wars goes, Israel could have never won a single war without the strong militart backup it got from US. Israel is nuclear only because of USA.

US supported Israel purely bcoz of tactical advantage it got in that region of the world.

And read the history of israel wars. There was a time Israel actiually tried to forcefully take surrounding areas that had Egypt claim on it. And in one of the wars Egypt actiually held back israel from taking more area. otherwise we would have seen way bigger Israel today.

The way Israel is formed and its unwillingness to co-exsist with palestine people is the cause of problems.

Its like chines claim of sikkim/aasam. Who here would agree to the fact we should submit that part of our country to china. Its truth that that part never belonged to india traditionally. its traditional chinese part( many are surprised but thats the truth, it was never part of india, not even ancient India that we know off, its British who made it part of india.). but now its part of India.

Apply same logic to Israel palestine.

I dont see the peace in that region unless Israel gives in and agrees to coexsist with palestines and be a secular country.

 

[guru]

These irani aryans are superior to us atleast physically, 4 iranis in my class, their average height is around 6.2 n they look like giants compared to others in my class(me too)

luckily the amount of brain cells you got doesnot depend on height. and Humans reli more on their brain rather than height to get around so shove the superior to us physically crap.

Average height of Japanese is like 5 ft and they own any thing that they do.

I think israel should be divided, half of it goes to muslims and the rest is kept by israel.
And about Jerusalem which is a sacred city for the jews, muslims n christians should be locked. No one should be allowed to enter it. Of course this is easier said than done.

oh really!! you mean like the powers that be divided India.

why is it that becuase muslim majority region should be seperate from the rest of the country. is it implicit that they cannot live in harmony with other cultures and religions?

 

[guru]

The problem lies in the foundation of nation.
When a nation is formed based on religion there are always long lasting impact of the same.
With sooo many jews scattered all along the world there was technically no need of Israel. And not the way it was done. When a occupied area is vacated there is ought to be rage twords that.

It goes not matter if it was traditionally Jewish or not. People were living there and one fine day someone like US and Britan decides this part of the land to be given to jewish country and you expect people to simply leave???
Hell in democratic world even the god damn illegal slums are not demolished without rehab these days. And you are making a whole country??????
I would never justify the logic behind the foundation of Israel.

You are right any state should be secular by default and should never have religion built into it anyway. but when you slaughter 60 lakh people you have to make exceptions.

oh and btw can you name a secular muslim state other than Turkey (where a artifical secularism is maintained the the Turkish military + Turkey is 99.8 muslim so when 100% of the country belongs to one religion secularism not very difficult to claim)?

 

[undertaker]

Assam has always been a part of India Funky,dunno what u r smoking,and Sikkim ,Tibet and Nagalans were never directly under China(Tibet was long long ago) but were semi-independent kingdoms in the past.Even people in Arunachal Pradesh have Indian names (Hindu/buddhist) not names like Chen Chi or whatever.And Assam have always been part of ancient India for a very long time!The problem started when too many Musallas from Bnagladesh were allowed by the ani-national Congress party to migrate into Assam for vote-bank reasons.

 

[guru]

Assam has always been a part of India Funky,dunno what u r smoking,and Sikkim ,Tibet and Nagalans were never directly under China(Tibet was long long ago) but were semi-independent kingdoms in the past.Even people in Arunachal Pradesh have Indian names (Hindu/buddhist) not names like Chen Chi or whatever.And Assam have always been part of ancient India for a very long time!The problem started when too many Musallas from Bnagladesh were allowed by the ani-national Congress party to migrate into Assam for vote-bank reasons.

forget Assam even Burma coud be considered a part of India - Historically and politically they were independent kingdoms with indian culture at heart

 

[Nikhil]

By that logic, even Nepal, Sri Lanka, then...

So today can we go crying and say that we need to be united with all these countries??? The same way Israel went crying...

 

[undertaker]

By that logic, even Nepal, Sri Lanka, then...

So today can we go crying and say that we need to be united with all these countries??? The same way Israel went crying...

That is exactly the approach to have, as Hitler famously said "Nations that do not expand do not last long",every great country including the U.S. has adopted this philosophy - very large parts of the modern U.S. were originally in Mexico, and we all knew what China did to Tibet(sadly if stupid Nehru hadn't been such a lame tactician,Tibet would be out of China's hands and possibly an Indian protectorate like Bhutan)

 

[Aces170]

^^ LOL seriously man, you live in a warped reality. Hitler and his idealogies were flawed and dead. Move on.

LOL how come most of the countries which had expanded have broken off eg : germany, Great Britain, USSR etc...

 

[apollyon]

As far as wars goes, Israel could have never won a single war without the strong militart backup it got from US

same logic applies for us too, almost all our military tech is begged/borrowed from russia...almost all our indigenous projects like the lca,arjun,nag,akash r white elephants on which we've wasted billions of rupees which we can ill afford
n in the six day war u were talking abt, egypt was fully backed by russia...
israel too had US backing,but they had to face egypt, jordan, and syria at the same time...n they held off all of them n captured the gaza strip, golan heights and the sinai peninsula to boot...
its not easy fighting a bigger country, look at us, agreed that we defeated pakistan but we also got raped by china
i admire israel/israelis for their fearless attitude...e.g the entebbe raid (compare it to the kandahar fiasco where our defense minister himself escorted the terrorists :rofl: , how humiliating is that! or the kidnapping of mufti mohammad sayeed's daughter...all this helped a lot in establishing india as a soft target)
israel looks out for its ppl...no terrorist act against israel ever goes unanswered....nazi war criminals like eichmann were caught n hanged, the surviving palestinian terrorists in the munich massacre were all killed later on in operation wrath of god...totally unlike india, when bangladesh killed 15 bsf personnel n mutilated their bodies, all india (vajpayee i believe) did was lodge a "strong protest" :rofl: n this by a country we liberated :S

 

[undertaker]

same logic applies for us too, almost all our military tech is begged/borrowed from russia...almost all our indigenous projects like the lca,arjun,nag,akash r white elephants on which we've wasted billions of rupees which we can ill afford

n in the six day war u were talking abt, egypt was fully backed by russia...

israel too had US backing,but they had to face egypt, jordan, and syria at the same time...n they held off all of them n captured the gaza strip, golan heights and the sinai peninsula to boot...

its not easy fighting a bigger country, look at us, agreed that we defeated pakistan but we also got raped by china

i admire israel/israelis for their fearless attitude...e.g the entebbe raid (compare it to the kandahar fiasco where our defense minister himself escorted the terrorists :rofl: , how humiliating is that! or the kidnapping of mufti mohammad sayeed's daughter...all this helped a lot in establishing india as a soft target)

israel looks out for its ppl...no terrorist act against israel ever goes unanswered....nazi war criminals like eichmann were caught n hanged, the surviving palestinian terrorists in the munich massacre were all killed later on in operation wrath of god...totally unlike india, when bangladesh killed 15 bsf personnel n mutilated their bodies, all india (vajpayee i believe) did was lodge a "strong protest" :rofl: n this by a country we liberated :S

Thats in part because of our so called commitment to 'secularism',U.S. presidents never shy in invoking God's name for their actions,Bush called the war on terrorism a crusade,Israelis always view their cause as a Jewish cause,but in India if the prime minister ever called for a 'dharam-yudh' against Islamists,u know what would happen,the pro-mulla parties like Congress,SP etc. would create a ruckus and stall Parliament the next day,India can only be strong if it becomes a liberal Hindu theocracy;I added the liberal part but liberalism in pre-implied by Hinduism.We don't need any green in our flag,it should be all saffron.

I also agree that the BJP is little different from the congress now, ideally democracy should be suspended and the chief of the RSS must automatically become the PM of India.I wish Narendra Modi or Praveen Togadia were the PM instead of lame people like Vajpayee during BJP's rule.

If the jews can overcome 2000 years of persecution and become a strong nation again,surely we Hindus can also overcome the 800 or so years of foreign rule and persecution.If we don't a Hindu Holocaust sponsored by Mullas from the west and Chinkis on the north is not too far away.

 

[x86]

appo i beg to disagree.
indias most problem is tht india is not opening the manufcature of defence stuffs to the private sectors.
once it'll do tht u see what happens.
as for defense i know india dont have awacs or nuclear warhead capable inter continental anti ballistic missiles but it doest means us have a hand over india.
the day ppls will use those earth will cease to exist.
thjers a word called diplomacy and diplomats .. so india just dont find the need of awacs or ballistics or say having 11 ships like viraat [us have 11] or say developing a plane tht wont be even put to war.
but yea indian army and airforce is quite a damn strong and now a days all planes r being manufactured jointly sau the su 30.
one more thing is tht the day india feels its needs it'l do whatever it wasnt to i can bet in this.
dont forget one thing the east india company got defeated with the sword carrying soldiers only so did the king alexander.

 

[Nikhil]

i admire israel/israelis for their fearless attitude...e.g the entebbe raid (compare it to the kandahar fiasco where our defense minister himself escorted the terrorists :rofl: , how humiliating is that! or the kidnapping of mufti mohammad sayeed's daughter...all this helped a lot in establishing india as a soft target)

israel looks out for its ppl...no terrorist act against israel ever goes unanswered....nazi war criminals like eichmann were caught n hanged, the surviving palestinian terrorists in the munich massacre were all killed later on in operation wrath of god...totally unlike india, when bangladesh killed 15 bsf personnel n mutilated their bodies, all india (vajpayee i believe) did was lodge a "strong protest" :rofl: n this by a country we liberated :S

exactly!!! Though I dont support the formation of Israel as a nation, I admire them..

The way they kidnapped Eichmann from Argentina without the Argentinians coming to know of it and then smuggling him back to Israel, trying him and then executing him was BRILLIANT!!

And so was the raid at Entebbe. That is why even today some people feel that the biggest mistake of the West Germans(during the 74 olympics hostage crisis) was not allowing the Israelis to work on their own in Germany.

BTW, Appo.... have you read the book "90 minutes at Entebbe" by William Stevenson?? Mindblowing book... gives minute to minute information abt the raid.... They rescued thir aircraft from foreign terrorists ON enemy land.... Superb!! Idi Amin Dad sure lost face

dont forget one thing the east india company got defeated with the sword carrying soldiers only so did the king alexander.

:huh: DUDE!!! that is so lame .... If Alexander was defeated by swords, then what did he have?? was he armed with machine guns?? Rocket launchers?? :lol: :rofl:

 

[x86]

One more thing i'd like to say is india really needs a good president "vajpayee" was a good one but his body language never insipired me or put confidence in me its something like c'mon ur the prime minister of INDIA u got to have a spirit i like manmohan wayy better.
i agree tht manythings like the bfs stuff gets unnoticed here but eh what u can do asl long as the caste system wil be here and distinguish etc etc will go one .. we need to move on whole as a own.
and not 30% peoples donmt want to welcome the technogy.
10% wants to fill pockets
30% wants a brighter india
others just likes tosit and argue like we