Storage Solutions Tick tick sound in external hdd

[Decadent_Spectre]

If it were me and it was in warranty I'd RMA the drive.

I don't have any external drives but I have always bought WD. I have some 30 internals right now, out of which 8-9 (lying outside) or so were having or were about to have issues (very old drives, about 4-6 years or more), at least one of them had the clicking noise issue, they were all out of warranty by the time they had issues or issues were about to develop, hence I could not RMA them. I transferred the data and took it out of the computer. I have 20 internals in the computer right now and none have issues (age between 1 year and 5-6 years). The PC is on 24/7. Of note in the past 10 years or so I have only ever lost data on 1 drive, in that time I have gone through more than 50 drives with (as noted) about 30 still with me. One drive is currently in RMA. You can asses yourself if this constitutes good/bad quality. For me since I've only lost data once in a decade given the number of drives I go through and they typically give up after warranty period, I like WD.

Just know that they WILL fail eventually, all of them, from any company.

 

[becool773]

If it were me and it was in warranty I'd RMA the drive.

I don't have any external drives but I have always bought WD. I have some 30 internals right now, out of which 8-9 (lying outside) or so were having or were about to have issues (very old drives, about 4-6 years or more), at least one of them had the clicking noise issue, they were all out of warranty by the time they had issues or issues were about to develop, hence I could not RMA them. I transferred the data and took it out of the computer. I have 20 internals in the computer right now and none have issues (age between 1 year and 5-6 years). The PC is on 24/7. Of note in the past 10 years or so I have only ever lost data on 1 drive, in that time I have gone through more than 50 drives with (as noted) about 30 still with me. One drive is currently in RMA. You can asses yourself if this constitutes good/bad quality. For me since I've only lost data once in a decade given the number of drives I go through and they typically give up after warranty period, I like WD.

Just know that they WILL fail eventually, all of them, from any company.

Brother I have also only used WD drives till date, both external and internal, around 10. From what I have noticed in my case and in my friends case is that the quality has degraded for the drives which were manufactured in the last 5-6 years.

My Passport went dead with the click of death earlier this week, albeit after 5 years. Probably yours was banged up during transit in some way and there is most probably some unintended physical contact within.

My external drive was hardly moved as it was used for downloading and just failed, so I don't trust these drives for any kind of actual backup.

there is most probably some unintended physical contact within.
Sorry didn't get this.

This specific drive was used to take backup once or twice a year and was afterwards kept in the oem box within a bubble layer on a table which was never moved. So, I have no idea what caused this. I can only blame WD's quality department.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Brother I have also only used WD drives till date, both external and internal, around 10. From what I have noticed in my case and in my friends case is that the quality has degraded for the drives which were manufactured in the last 5-6 years.

there is most probably some unintended physical contact within.
Sorry didn't get this.

This specific drive was used to take backup once or twice a year and was afterwards kept in the oem box within a bubble layer on a table which was never moved. So, I have no idea what caused this. I can only blame WD's quality department.

I personally wouldn't agree, as I am seeing fewer issues and almost no outright failures in the past few years. Touch wood. Also if you care about reliability get the Ultrastar series, don't get the Red/Gold.

I think someone mentioned this but I'll repeat it, if you keep drives lying unused they are more likely to develop issues. While I am no expert HDDs are designed for certain usage cycles and they are also designed for a certain temperature window, too hot and too cold are both bad for them IIRC.

 

[deusExMachina]

It's possible that the disk was handled roughly during shipment buuut I know you're gonna RMA the disk but could you run some diagnostics before you give it. The information could be useful

1. download hddscan, get smart data and save to file
2. Start a SMART extended/long test. Wait for like 1-2h.
3. get the SMART data and save again.
4. Run a full erase test in hddscan
5. Repeat 3
6. Run a butterfly read test
7. Repeat 3

 

[becool773]

I personally wouldn't agree, as I am seeing fewer issues and almost no outright failures in the past few years. Touch wood. Also if you care about reliability get the Ultrastar series, don't get the Red/Gold.

I think someone mentioned this but I'll repeat it, if you keep drives lying unused they are more likely to develop issues. While I am no expert HDDs are designed for certain usage cycles and they are also designed for a certain temperature window, too hot and too cold are both bad for them IIRC.

I personally wouldn't agree, as I am seeing fewer issues and almost no outright failures in the past few years. Touch wood. Also if you care about reliability get the Ultrastar series, don't get the Red/Gold.
I am seeing the exact opposite in my and my friends case. Ultrastar series by WD? Can you please share a link? How is the reliability of those drop tested etc. hdd's which come in that hard shell casing kinda thing?

I think someone mentioned this but I'll repeat it, if you keep drives lying unused they are more likely to develop issues. While I am no expert HDDs are designed for certain usage cycles and they are also designed for a certain temperature window, too hot and too cold are both bad for them IIRC.
The other WD hdd's, both internal and external, that I had were used consistently but they also went kaput. Jab kismat ho gand* to kya karega pandu.
A question about the underlined part, does that mean that one should not buy drives which were manufactured like a year or more ago?

It's possible that the disk was handled roughly during shipment buuut I know you're gonna RMA the disk but could you run some diagnostics before you give it. The information could be useful

1. download hddscan, get smart data and save to file
2. Start a SMART extended/long test. Wait for like 1-2h.
3. get the SMART data and save again.
4. Run a full erase test in hddscan
5. Repeat 3
6. Run a butterfly read test
7. Repeat 3

Sure bro anything for my geek brothers. Will do it and will post the results here. Do these extended tests hurt a drive, if we do it just to check a normal working drive?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I personally wouldn't agree, as I am seeing fewer issues and almost no outright failures in the past few years. Touch wood. Also if you care about reliability get the Ultrastar series, don't get the Red/Gold.
I am seeing the exact opposite in my and my friends case. Ultrastar series by WD? Can you please share a link? How is the reliability of those drop tested etc. hdd's which come in that hard shell casing kinda thing?

I think someone mentioned this but I'll repeat it, if you keep drives lying unused they are more likely to develop issues. While I am no expert HDDs are designed for certain usage cycles and they are also designed for a certain temperature window, too hot and too cold are both bad for them IIRC.
The other WD hdd's, both internal and external, that I had were used consistently but they also went kaput. Jab kismat ho gand* to kya karega pandu.
A question about the underlined part, does that mean that one should not buy drives which were manufactured like a year or more ago?

Sure bro anything for my geek brothers. Will do it and will post the results here. Do these extended tests hurt a drive, if we do it just to check a normal working drive?

Which drives do you have?

Data Center Drives: Shop Hard Drives & SSDs for Enterprise | Western Digital

Buy high-capacity, high-performance hard drives and SSDs directly to optimize data center operations and streamline enterprise storage.

shop.westerndigital.com

Get a CMR drive if you can (if your looking to buy). I'd suggest avoiding SMR. The Ultrastars are internals, don't know if they are available in external cases.

HDDs are to some degree a matter of luck, as I noted I had to send one for RMA and it's about a year old while the others I bought with it are functioning well, thank god.

I would prefer not to buy older manufactured drives but that isn't a choice we always have unless the dealer is willing to accommodate your request.

Edit : https://www.primeabgb.com/buy-onlin...?filters=brand[wd-wd-hgst]&orderby=price-desc

 

[deusExMachina]

I personally wouldn't agree, as I am seeing fewer issues and almost no outright failures in the past few years. Touch wood. Also if you care about reliability get the Ultrastar series, don't get the Red/Gold.
I am seeing the exact opposite in my and my friends case. Ultrastar series by WD? Can you please share a link? How is the reliability of those drop tested etc. hdd's which come in that hard shell casing kinda thing?

I think someone mentioned this but I'll repeat it, if you keep drives lying unused they are more likely to develop issues. While I am no expert HDDs are designed for certain usage cycles and they are also designed for a certain temperature window, too hot and too cold are both bad for them IIRC.
The other WD hdd's, both internal and external, that I had were used consistently but they also went kaput. Jab kismat ho gand* to kya karega pandu.
A question about the underlined part, does that mean that one should not buy drives which were manufactured like a year or more ago?

Sure bro anything for my geek brothers. Will do it and will post the results here. Do these extended tests hurt a drive, if we do it just to check a normal working drive?

Thanks mate! I love data

About the hard disk failures, these are the things that I've heard (and verified to an extent):

1. Don't assume that a particular manufacturer produces good/bad drives. It varies by model, year of manufacture etc. You can't have a thumb rule with this. Generally compare on a per-model basis and avoid the ones that show a high failure rate.

2. Disks have two major failure modes:

1. Manufacturing defects : Basically a certain % of drives would fail early on, while the rest will fail much later after a long service life (provided they aren't subjected to irregular wear/tear). It's also called a bathtub curve (I don't like to use the other term). Whenever you buy a new drive, you should torture test it by doing a couple of write-readback passes (stresses the magnetic components) and something like the butterfly read test (it stresses the mechanical components). The idea is to both test the drive and to force it to fail early (within the warranty period) before you use it to store actual data.

2. Operational defects : There is finite number of times the disk can be powered on/off, a finite number of head park cycles, a finite level of mechanical shock before the risk of data loss increases. Generally the best way to prolong the disk life is to power it on 24x7 while on a mechanically stable mount/surface and within the average design temperature (about 30-35 C I think, cooling the drive unnecessarily is bad)

All drive operations (including tests) hurt the drive a tiny bit, but they're meant to be used. Don't worry about testing. Losing a drive with data is worse than losing a drive.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Thanks mate! I love data

About the hard disk failures, these are the things that I've heard (and verified to an extent):

1. Don't assume that a particular manufacturer produces good/bad drives. It varies by model, year of manufacture etc. You can't have a thumb rule with this. Generally compare on a per-model basis and avoid the ones that show a high failure rate.

2. Disks have two major failure modes:

1. Manufacturing defects : Basically a certain % of drives would fail early on, while the rest will fail much later after a long service life (provided they aren't subjected to irregular wear/tear). It's also called a bathtub curve (I don't like to use the other term). Whenever you buy a new drive, you should torture test it by doing a couple of write-readback passes (stresses the magnetic components) and something like the butterfly read test (it stresses the mechanical components). The idea is to both test the drive and to force it to fail early (within the warranty period) before you use it to store actual data.

2. Operational defects : There is finite number of times the disk can be powered on/off, a finite number of head park cycles, a finite level of mechanical shock before the risk of data loss increases. Generally the best way to prolong the disk life is to power it on 24x7 while on a mechanically stable mount/surface and within the average design temperature (about 30-35 C I think, cooling the drive unnecessarily is bad)

All drive operations (including tests) hurt the drive a tiny bit, but they're meant to be used. Don't worry about testing. Losing a drive with data is worse than losing a drive.

The temps, are you referring to what IIRC was a google test?

 

[deusExMachina]

The temps, are you referring to what IIRC was a google test?

No, but close. Another hosting company had analyzed their hard drive failure data. It was around the same time that Google also released some of it. I don't remember the name / link right now.

Get a CMR drive if you can (if your looking to buy). I'd suggest avoiding SMR. The Ultrastars are internals, don't know if they are available in external cases.

From a usage point of view the shingled drives just have lower transfer speeds right? or are there any other issues?

IMO while this advice is good in general. I think it also depends on use case. If you're archiving some data and don't need to access it frequently, saving costs by using an shingled media drive seems better.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

No, but close. Another hosting company had analyzed their hard drive failure data. It was around the same time that Google also released some of it. I don't remember the name / link right now.

From a usage point of view the shingled drives just have lower transfer speeds right? or are there any other issues?

IMO while this advice is good in general. I think it also depends on use case. If you're archiving some data and don't need to access it frequently, saving costs by using an shingled media drive seems better.

I've read a few places about CMR being more reliable, that's why I recommended it (that and my own experiences with WD CMR drives). Again I'm no expert, I just want to keep my data safe. Shingled might be better from cost but is it really that much cheaper than a CMR drive?

 

[deusExMachina]

I've read a few places about CMR being more reliable, that's why I recommended it (that and my own experiences with WD CMR drives). Again I'm no expert, I just want to keep my data safe. Shingled might be better from cost but is it really that much cheaper than a CMR drive?

The Shingled ones are slightly cheaper. I should research more to get exact figures. The last time I checked, a high capacity disk (>= 4TB) going for a cheap rate tends to be shingled.

Also, you're right about the reliability. The shingled ones aren't inherently unreliable but they take multiple passes to write data to a track which I suspect leaves them more vulnerable to data loss on sudden power loss (which admittedly happens a lot in India)

 

[becool773]

Which drives do you have?

Data Center Drives: Shop Hard Drives & SSDs for Enterprise | Western Digital

Buy high-capacity, high-performance hard drives and SSDs directly to optimize data center operations and streamline enterprise storage.

shop.westerndigital.com

Get a CMR drive if you can (if your looking to buy). I'd suggest avoiding SMR. The Ultrastars are internals, don't know if they are available in external cases.

HDDs are to some degree a matter of luck, as I noted I had to send one for RMA and it's about a year old while the others I bought with it are functioning well, thank god.

I would prefer not to buy older manufactured drives but that isn't a choice we always have unless the dealer is willing to accommodate your request.

Edit : https://www.primeabgb.com/buy-onlin...?filters=brand[wd-wd-hgst]&orderby=price-desc

I have a couple of blue one's, internal one's, and many passport one, external one's.

CMR/SMR? Please explain.

How is an ultrastar one better than the other variants?

1. Manufacturing defects : Basically a certain % of drives would fail early on, while the rest will fail much later after a long service life (provided they aren't subjected to irregular wear/tear). It's also called a bathtub curve (I don't like to use the other term). Whenever you buy a new drive, you should torture test it by doing a couple of write-readback passes (stresses the magnetic components) and something like the butterfly read test (it stresses the mechanical components). The idea is to both test the drive and to force it to fail early (within the warranty period) before you use it to store actual data.

2. Operational defects : There is finite number of times the disk can be powered on/off, a finite number of head park cycles, a finite level of mechanical shock before the risk of data loss increases. Generally the best way to prolong the disk life is to power it on 24x7 while on a mechanically stable mount/surface and within the average design temperature (about 30-35 C I think, cooling the drive unnecessarily is bad)

All drive operations (including tests) hurt the drive a tiny bit, but they're meant to be used. Don't worry about testing. Losing a drive with data is worse than losing a drive.

1. You have a point. But torture testing a new device will be hard haha.

2. If a drive is connected 24x7 with a system then how will it prolong it's life? What if it is not possible to keep the system on 24x7? And also what is there is not a flat surface nearby? Keeping the same on a cpu won't be recommended, if there are earthing issues and if the cpu tends to give shocks sometimes, right?
@deusExMachina @Decadent_Spectre
Sorry to interrupt but please explain the meaning of shingled drives?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

Have a look at these -

https://www.reichelt.com/magazin/en/smr-cmr-which-hard-drive-is-best-for-which-purpose/

WD Red SMR vs CMR Tested Avoid Red SMR

We tested WD Red SMR v CMR drives to see if there was indeed a significant impact with the change. We found SMR can put data at risk 13-16x longer than CMR

www.servethehome.com

The Ultrastars are enterprise grade drives designed for heavy use and reliability. I've never owned the blues and external drives but I did have many Red drives and the Ultrastars are way better. I'm slowly replacing all my Reds with Ultrastars.

 

[deusExMachina]

1. You have a point. But torture testing a new device will be hard haha.

2. If a drive is connected 24x7 with a system then how will it prolong it's life? What if it is not possible to keep the system on 24x7? And also what is there is not a flat surface nearby? Keeping the same on a cpu won't be recommended, if there are earthing issues and if the cpu tends to give shocks sometimes, right?
@deusExMachina @Decadent_Spectre
Sorry to interrupt but please explain the meaning of shingled drives?

Hard as in it takes a while to test? or are you emotionally worried about putting the brand new purchase under stress?
It's you decision. To me the stored data is more valuable than the hassle of having to RMA a disk or the time I have to leave it running for the test.

The conventional wisdom is that the longest running hard drives have been the ones that were continuously in operation. It's because you aren't cycling states. E.g. Every disk is rated only upto a specific number of head load/unloads (which happens frequently if you enable aggressive power saving or if you keep turning off the disk).

For practical reasons, just ensure that you keep it spinning during use (disable aggressive hdd power saving features, don't keep removing and inserting often etc). The external harddrives especially keep shutting down to save power. It's good for your battery but not for disk life. Flat stable surfaces prevent unwanted vibrations which could potentially cause issues. It's a simple requirement, you're gonna be using the computer on a flat surface wouldn't you?

Don't worry about the earthing issues. All the parts running off the PSU are referenced from the same point, it's not gonna damage them. You on the other hand are at a different potential from this reference point, so you get a mild shock.

 

[becool773]

Have a look at these -

https://www.reichelt.com/magazin/en/smr-cmr-which-hard-drive-is-best-for-which-purpose/

WD Red SMR vs CMR Tested Avoid Red SMR

We tested WD Red SMR v CMR drives to see if there was indeed a significant impact with the change. We found SMR can put data at risk 13-16x longer than CMR

www.servethehome.com

The Ultrastars are enterprise grade drives designed for heavy use and reliability. I've never owned the blues and external drives but I did have many Red drives and the Ultrastars are way better. I'm slowly replacing all my Reds with Ultrastars.

I am getting confused with the smr. Can you ELI5 what that is? Sorry my head is spinning since last night, so not able to get that thread. Thanks for explaining the rest.

Hard as in it takes a while to test? or are you emotionally worried about putting the brand new purchase under stress?
It's you decision. To me the stored data is more valuable than the hassle of having to RMA a disk or the time I have to leave it running for the test.

The conventional wisdom is that the longest running hard drives have been the ones that were continuously in operation. It's because you aren't cycling states. E.g. Every disk is rated only upto a specific number of head load/unloads (which happens frequently if you enable aggressive power saving or if you keep turning off the disk).

For practical reasons, just ensure that you keep it spinning during use (disable aggressive hdd power saving features, don't keep removing and inserting often etc). The external harddrives especially keep shutting down to save power. It's good for your battery but not for disk life. Flat stable surfaces prevent unwanted vibrations which could potentially cause issues. It's a simple requirement, you're gonna be using the computer on a flat surface wouldn't you?

Don't worry about the earthing issues. All the parts running off the PSU are referenced from the same point, it's not gonna damage them. You on the other hand are at a different potential from this reference point, so you get a mild shock.

Hard as in putting a brand new purchase under stress. But I get your point, data is more important than emotions. BTW how many times can a person rma a drive in warranty?

Now coming to the next part, few questions

- How to check that aggressive power saving options are enabled in a system or not? I am getting confused with this aggressive thing.

- What if it is not possible to keep a system running 24x7?

- If a system, pc or a laptop, is never shut down (except for few a occasions) and is always put on sleep then how will it affect the
a. internal hdd
b. external hdd, if connected.

- I agree with the flat surface part but it will not be a good thing to attach it to a laptop as it will always be moving around. The cpu is indeed on a flat surface but the cable of the hdd is not that long. I was using an Amazon Basics one as my WD cable wasn't working. When it made that tick tick sound, I borrowed a wd one from my friend. WD cables are generally short in length. I do get a shock from the cpu many times lol didn't know how it will impact the hdd.

- I am not able to find the head load/unload parameter in CrystalDisk Info. Is it the same as Load/Unload count cycle?
@Decadent_Spectre @deusExMachina
What kinda of memory units are smartphones using? I have never seen them go down in any phone even after rough handling.

 

[deusExMachina]

I am getting confused with the smr. Can you ELI5 what that is? Sorry my head is spinning since last night, so not able to get that thread. Thanks for explaining the rest.

A Reddit user I see
With the shingled drives, the data is packed together more tightly. When new data is written, the previously written data gets affected. So the drive controllers has to do additional writes to prevent data loss. You gain more data density on the same area and you lose speed and potentially robustness.

Hard as in putting a brand new purchase under stress. But I get your point, data is more important than emotions. BTW how many times can a person rma a drive in warranty?

Dunno, I've only RMAd at the most once so far. Maybe check with their customer care? I suspect that you can RMA more than once in the same period.

Now coming to the next part, few questions

- How to check that aggressive power saving options are enabled in a system or not? I am getting confused with this aggressive thing.

On Windows, check the power options and look at the one on "turn off harddisks after x minutes" YMMV

- What if it is not possible to keep a system running 24x7?

It helps to but is not mandatory. Frequent power cycling / sleep would reduce the life. Just try to minimise that, when feasible.

- If a system, pc or a laptop, is never shut down (except for few a occasions) and is always put on sleep then how will it affect the
a. internal hdd
b. external hdd, if connected.

For a spinning hard disk, putting the pc to sleep has the same effect as a shutdown. It doesn't matter if the spinning disk is internal or external.

- I agree with the flat surface part but it will not be a good thing to attach it to a laptop as it will always be moving around. The cpu is indeed on a flat surface but the cable of the hdd is not that long. I was using an Amazon Basics one as my WD cable wasn't working. When it made that tick tick sound, I borrowed a wd one from my friend. WD cables are generally short in length. I do get a shock from the cpu many times lol didn't know how it will impact the hdd.

So basically your disk was dangling off the cable? not a good way to use it. Use a cable length long enough to rest the disk flat but don't use more length than necessary.

- I am not able to find the head load/unload parameter in CrystalDisk Info. Is it the same as Load/Unload count cycle?
@Decadent_Spectre @deusExMachina

Yes. It's a SMART parameter, should be more or less the same across tools.

What kinda of memory units are smartphones using? I have never seen them go down in any phone even after rough handling.

They use flash, so no large moving parts. Just like an SSD and are more resistant to mechanical shocks.

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I am getting confused with the smr. Can you ELI5 what that is? Sorry my head is spinning since last night, so not able to get that thread. Thanks for explaining the rest.

Hard as in putting a brand new purchase under stress. But I get your point, data is more important than emotions. BTW how many times can a person rma a drive in warranty?

Now coming to the next part, few questions

- How to check that aggressive power saving options are enabled in a system or not? I am getting confused with this aggressive thing.

- What if it is not possible to keep a system running 24x7?

- If a system, pc or a laptop, is never shut down (except for few a occasions) and is always put on sleep then how will it affect the
a. internal hdd
b. external hdd, if connected.

- I agree with the flat surface part but it will not be a good thing to attach it to a laptop as it will always be moving around. The cpu is indeed on a flat surface but the cable of the hdd is not that long. I was using an Amazon Basics one as my WD cable wasn't working. When it made that tick tick sound, I borrowed a wd one from my friend. WD cables are generally short in length. I do get a shock from the cpu many times lol didn't know how it will impact the hdd.

- I am not able to find the head load/unload parameter in CrystalDisk Info. Is it the same as Load/Unload count cycle?
@Decadent_Spectre @deusExMachina
What kinda of memory units are smartphones using? I have never seen them go down in any phone even after rough handling.

Sorry I don't know what ELI5 is.

SMR is shingled magnetic recording, CMR is conventional magnetic recording.

Shingled magnetic recording - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Perpendicular recording - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes you can look at load/unload cycle count as well. You can also check out DiskCheckup if your looking for some software for this.

 

[becool773]

@Decadent_Spectre @deusExMachina
Hi Guys,
Got super busy with life. Went to the service centre they checked the drive and said that it is okay no need of rma. There was loads of noise in there. They said that there is no sound. I think the warranty if almost over. Any help?

I reread all your replies. I won't be able to keep the drive connected 24x7. While I do understand the cycle counts and everything but that's my limitation. It will be used once or twice in 6-10 months to take backups. I think this non or very very less usage is the reasons why multiple external drives of mine went kaput in the last few years. But many internal one's also did, the blue one's though. Anyways what's the advice on this part?

 

[Decadent_Spectre]

I didn't know WD had a service center you could visit, I was under the impression that you made online RMAs with WD, they have always replaced my drives no questions asked, you could try this method.

As for reliability, as before you could try the Ultrastars (if in budget), or perhaps an SSD?

 

[neoshreya]

The SMART data is fine. But since this is a mechanical drive and there is a sound, something for sure is failing so better to backup data now and raise an RMA