To all atheists here

"Nobody doubts that he exists, though he may doubt the existence of God. If he finds out the truth about himself and discovers his own source, this is all that is required."
Ramana Maharshi

BTW, I have always been an agnostic but interested in spirituality. And I feel all the religions as of now are meant for the well being of the priests.
 
I too have stopped believing in the existance of (any) god. But there is an interesting duality I see in myself which I'd like to share here.

When I was a kid I used to keep fasts, believed lord krishna would protect me when dad went to a tour leaving me and mom alone in a newly constructed house. By the time I was outta college I had read and discussed a lot about religion. I slowly stopped believing in god. I consider myself an atheist now. I do not go to a temple on my own but I don't shy away from it if i'm with family or friends and they want to visit a temple.

The interesting thing is, whenever I have to enter a temple, I fold my hands and bow my head with FULL faith and not just as a compulsion. Another instance, at last year's Diwali puja it was me and mom who sang the prayers for the family. And I did it with all my heart.

Well I guess I'll have to live with this duality. I can believe whatever I feel right but I also respect other people's faith. And that's the bottom line : live and let live :)

Kudos to SharekhaN for starting this very interesting topic.

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For those who are interested in atheism, here are some recommendations :

- BBC - Jonathan Millers A rough history of disbelief

- BBC - The Atheism Tapes

- all the books, articles and videos by Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris

- Bertrand Russell - Why I am Not a Christian

- Carl Sagan - The Demon Haunted World - Science As A Candle In The Dark

- Julia Sweeney - Letting go of God

- BBC - Charles Darwin and the Tree of Life (2009)

use google to search and download them as torrents. Most of them are available on youtube as well.
 
Gannu's friend posting

FaH33m said:
So I am myself confused and I doubt anyone will have a definite answer any day

..cause atleast we know we exist
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There have been enlightened people in the past, there are enlightened people in the present and there shall be enlightened people in the future.

All of them have simply preached one thing

"Avoid evil deeds,

Do good deeds,

Purify the mind"

However their teachings got corrupted by the people either due to selfish motives or maybe due to misunderstanding by passing on over the generations

Now one can wonder as to what is right and what is wrong.

If in the beginning one abstains from the most serious of the offences such as killing and sexual misconduct such as rape etc then as one purifys the mind further one realizes for oneself what is good and what is bad.

Secondly when one says "we" or "I", what exactly one means by that.

Is it the mind? Is it the body? Is it the feelings or is it simply and illusion to call this impermanent changing phenomenon as "I"?

blr_p said:
Problem is there are so many interpretations of this "law of nature".

Being an atheist is an attempt to strip away some of the more irrelevant in search of what tangibly remains.
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Dear friend there is only one law of nature, just like there is only one law of gravity, one set of biological parents etc.

However but ofcourse there are many interpretations of it. This is due to people either misunderstanding it or using the teachings for their own benifits

for eg. I may justify stealing when it is beneficial to me and tell others not to do the same.

Hence it is very important for one to discover the truth for himself, behaving just like a scientist or rather a super scientist, identifying the mind matter phenomenon, understanding the result of the contact of the mind with the matter. Only then can one be free from wrong views and also from the clutches of a false guru
 
Assassin's Creed storyline says that some bunch of geniuses a long time ago called the "Templars" thought up the whole concept of Hell and Heaven to control the man to stop him from doing evil things and unite him in peace. They created the Bible.

It really did incite thoughts in my head, it could be true. This whole big damn "Secret" or "Holy Grail" or whatever which the movies/books show that the priests and hardcore followers will go to any length to protect..

The whole concept of eternal punishment in Hell..being saved and living eternally in Heaven if you accept Jesus and then be good? Doesn't sound much different from "go to sleep now or else the boogeyman will come out of the closet" except the latter has a mom trying to control her children, former has smart people trying to control other people.

Not to say I don't believe in God though..I get confused on what to believe sometimes but I've always thought there is a higher power we can't comprehend that probably exists in realms besides our Universe..even if he's more like Dr.Manhatten from The Watchmen than he is like a religious God we believe who rewards and punishes spirits of dead humans beings.
 
IMHO, Science is just another religion...... Its just that its high priests never publicise this fact.

Look any single defining theory of the world--- assumptions are everywhere.

In case of religion- the "assumptions" are replaced by "beliefs" .

And the primary assumption is "Faith" in the existence of an omnipotent entity.

Talking about relativity: It talks about the relativeness of everything- that nothing is absolute --that all matter is energy ...Quantum Physics tells that all matter is wave (energy) but still other branches of science continue to conveniently assume things which contradict the above ..... not so consistent with "scientific logic" , eh?
Talking about climate science- the levels of assumptions involved are so high- it is almost blasphemous. Climatic Models simply suck - and they are used to forecast how Global warming will destroy mankind in so many years...... Almost sounds like the greedy "Pundit-ji" trying to scare the illiterate "Junta" into paying up for the elaborate ceremonies
to please gods.

Just thinking out loud.....

Cheers :)
 
Neotheone said:
IMHO, Science is just another religion...... Its just that its high priests never publicise this fact.
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yes if you say its stripping away to get to the core. A quest of sorts for the ultimate truth, main driving factor. But as you said later even that truth is relative. gravity is different on the moon compared to earth. True only with respect to the frame of reference its measured in.

No, because religon can't be tested. If science got that way it would indeed be religon.
 
hash said:
The problem with Atheist's is that they think they can do everything on their own . They think they don't need any help from someone from above rather considering themselves as a God.
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Really? And that's a problem? Maybe it's you who needs someone from above to help you out when you're in trouble because you can't help yourself?
 
Just to put things into perspective.. hv some of u heard of "Ignosticism" ?

i'm always very curious about religions...

Igonsticism a religious philosophy, not a religion...

it argues that a coherent definition of god must be presented before a meaningful discussion of the existance of god can be had.. secondly it argues that basically the question of "does god exist" is meaningless...

By far this definition has convinced me more than Atheism or agnosticism...

An ignostic maintains that they cannot even say whether he/she is a theist or an atheist until a better definition of theism is put forth.

Sauce

I believe religion is something like a country to me.. Country is something man made... its has a binding force among people in the form of Patriotism... Without Patriotism and country, humans wouldnt be a divided lot.

Likewise Religion is something man made... man explained and creates a binding force....

Sometimes religious concepts can be lost on me... :ashamed:

:cool2:
 
MaRKiV said:
I believe religion is something like a country to me.. Country is something man made... its has a binding force among people in the form of Patriotism... Without Patriotism and country, humans wouldnt be a divided lot.
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The concept of a country and patriotism is something thats lost on me :ashamed: I can't quite figure out why I'm supposed to feel one way about things on this side of an imaginary line and feel differently about anything on that side of the line :huh:
 
Without Patriotism and country, humans wouldnt be a divided lot.
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Wouldn't you say country, tribe etc is the inherent division that divides us in the first place :)

The patriotism you speak of comes from the ancient allegiance to tribe without which you were at the mercy of the elements, wild animals or other marauding tribes. So if everyone was loyal then you had a tight organisation that could then conquer the others.

In those days allegiance was a matter of life or death. It still is in many parts of Afghanistan but they hop & switch like there's no tomorrow.

The allegiance worked because it was win-win for the individual as well as the whole.
 
blr_p said:
Wouldn't you say country, tribe etc is the inherent division that divides us in the first place :)
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Yes ofcourse.. Tribes... clan.. etc were the norms when humans were considered uncivilized... but now still the so called civilized humans are divided by them...

So whats the big difference between "Civilized humans" and the "Not so civilized ancestors"???
 
OT: zhops where is the cake shop :p

I believe there is god and he loves humans a lot. there fore:

a) He gave us brains to think

b) He gave us food to eat (veg as well as non veg :p)

Sorry for the OT but coudnt resist.

God Rocks
 
MaRKiV said:
So whats the big difference between "Civilized humans" and the "Not so civilized ancestors"???
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Your earlier post shows a trend from religon as the highest aspiration towards that of the state. Yes, its no differnt really, just the object of devotion has changed.

But that allegiance nowadays is less a matter of life & death, see zhop's reply.

We inteact with ppl from all over and don't feel confined as much as before.

In a way we are trending towards the ultimate truth as we replace former layers with ever thinning ones. If it can be said that allegiance to state is a thinner layer than to religon.
 
for those who arguing about science Vs Religions..

Science is Open Source...its open to other ideas and theories and its corrected and updated time to time by interested scientists.

Religion is like a Closed Source..say M/S or Apple... which has deluded mankind so much that people choose to PAY(Pray) for most of the stuff rather than concerned about going into details on how it works..or how they can do it by self...its preachers (developers) are not allowed to think/develop anything beyond the guidelines mentioned in the Holly Book (the License Agreement / Patent)..

and anyone who tries to correct/change it for better (Autopatcher / Darwin) gets shut down/ridiculed by its preachers and supporters.
 
madnav said:
its preachers (developers) are not allowed to think/develop anything beyond the guidelines mentioned in the Holly Book (the License Agreement / Patent)..
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The preachers are in fact more greedy than the developers!:mad:
 
janitha said:
And I feel all the religions as of now are meant for the well being of the priests.
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Yeah, after all this time its all become an institution with power and the main goal is its protection, preservation & enlargement over the actual ideas that spawned the movement in the first place. When these movements started out they were totally new, with compelling ideas and did things in a unique way. Lots of ppl got hooked to the new way of life. Word of mouth was how it spread.

I doubt the actual founders had any ambitions over lording over hundreds of millions. They just had a message and thats all it was about for them.
 
Only way to kill violent patriotism within humans is if we go to war with an alien planet. >__>

Human beings love to fight for a cause by nature..we're animals, we can't change that.
 
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