War within India - Naxals

[johnie1]

the state will not win this war as long as the maoists have the support of the people and why do the people support maoists?.Its not because the naxals have promised them the moon.Its because they have ensured the basic dignity of the tribals.When the state terrorises the people like raping the women,burning their houses then what will the people do.Hell they will fight with bows and arrows.
just dont believe what the mainstream media reports.look at both sides of the story.It is not development which they want.That is all bs that the state with the help of the media has put out.They just want their way of living like gathering forest produce etc to be maintained.

Now if the state wants to mine these areas against the peoples wishes,killing the opposition then they can expect these kind of responses.Killing is wrong no doubt and both sides should understand that.The state thinks that with its power it can destroy the tribals,take their land and give it to mncs like sterlite for mining.The home minister mr chidambaram was a lawyer for vedanta the parent group.what an irony.
The question is do we want to impose the will of the mncs aided and abetted by the state on the tribals.If they do so they are bound to lose in the longer run.The solution is to have talks and leave the tribal lands alone.
just my 2 cents.

 

[broadway]

The maoists have been raiding and launching attacks since the past few months in an effort to provoke the centre to respond. Putting more troops in the forests means more casualties. The srilankan army turned the tables on the LTTE by using UAV's to take out the leadership and then the tigers. Plus they maintained a league of hit-men to take out journalists who wrote in favour of the tamil tigers. The tigers had the support of the people but they played things fairly when the srilankan army didn't hesitate to drop bombs on an entire village to take out 2-4 tigers. This fairness of the tigers resulted in there defeat.

The viet cong didn't play nice. Once they massacred an entire village to get the point across. The afghan militia too does not play nice.

The maoists will continue to exist as long as there are masses of backward and downtrodden in india.

 

[asingh]

Decent two cents...!

Johnie1, true the moon has not been promised, but have promises been kept. Have they really been honored by this group..? It seems what Mazumdar envisioned in 1967 is hardly noted at now. It is understandable and emphatic to see the plight of the tribal belts in these regions. And it is not only the state which is committing atrocities against this group. Certain upper echelons have also been party to these acts. So is the Naxal movement, the night in shining armor. Their methods of seeking attention, and nailing a point across hardly seem justified to the amount of blood shed and loss to infrastructure (and prevention of enhancements). Naxals are the mouth piece of the tribals, to get them better rights and basic living standards. But the situation is such that these people are squeezed between state and Maoists now. What choice/power of veto do they really have. What you said about having talks. I think that is the best solution. But not with the Naxals for sure. They are no bargaining body vs. our state. This is a dicey situation. Cause if the state 'agents' are left to their machinations, then exactly what you high lighted will occur. Exploitation and never fulfilled false and non-tangible promises. Sad. Though this is an extremely idealistic vision: but we need an intermediary body which engages the non-well off region and harness it to the development power (with no prejudice and selfish motive) of our state.

Broadway, who is being exploited here, and who is exactly exploiting. Are not the Naxals doing the same. The state did try via the Salwa Judum to bring a control to the volatile situation. What was the result. It started of as an anti-Naxalite movement in the Chattisgarh area, moved to Bastar and Dantewada. Via this and deployment of SPOs (Special Police Officers), it was a head-to-head battle with the Naxals. It failed. This group is now just as violent as the Naxalites, and there are records of them behaving exactly in the manner to which they were called to eradicate. The state sings this as pure success. Salwa Judum hired out juveniles and ex-Naxalites. Hardly a measure of success, with Supreme Courth having to intervene. What boggles my brain, the expanse of penetration is huge. Really huge. Scary.

 

[l33t_5n1p3r_max]

The srilankan army turned the tables on the LTTE by using UAV's to take out the leadership and then the tigers.

This is wrong...the Sri Lankans do not have UAV's that can fire anything...

This fairness of the tigers resulted in there defeat.

No, the training the SLA got in COIN ops and jungle warfare resulted in their defeat. The SLA of the late 90's was handed Jaffna by the IPKF and they lost it. Cut back to early 2010 with training from their neighbors (India to a great deal..) and they were capable of taking the fight to the LTTE.

The LTTE screwed itself over when it thought it could take on the SLA on a legitimate battlefield. A guerilla force cannot fight in the open against an organised army.

Its not because the naxals have promised them the moon.Its because they have ensured the basic dignity of the tribals.When the state terrorises the people like raping the women,burning their houses then what will the people do.Hell they will fight with bows and arrows.

Brilliant, we have a budding Arundhati Roy here....the maoists who frequently rape women and kill civillians themselves, are supported by the people not out of fear, but because the central government burns their houses.

The state thinks that with its power it can destroy the tribals,take their land and give it to mncs like sterlite for mining.

Buddy that mining is what is bringing prosperity to that belt. Do you seriously think any of the younger generation from the belt wants the jungles and land and other cacameme horsecrap? They all flee to the cities for better lives, blaming MNC's for "exploiting" resources that give YOU electricity is as retarded as judging global warming on the temperature changes of the last one or two years..lol

 

[Lord Nemesis]

Personally I have never understood the true agenda of the Naxal's. They follow communist ideologies, but communism itself is never a great concept in practicality. Even if their so called revolutions succeeds, they end up making the situation worse for the people than what it was before.

Equality in everything sounds good on paper, but its usually taken too far and out of sane bounds. Social equality is great and I agree there should be no discrimination based on class/caste/race/religion/region. But then they also talk about economic equality which is not always good in practicality. Sure there should be equal opportunities for everyone to grow, but then according to these many followers of communism, a guy who works hard to earn his wealth should share his wealth with his fellow men even if they were idling away their time and just because everyone is considered equal and entitled to an equal share of the wealth. Regardless of what their initial endeavors were for, what most of the communist followers ultimately want to end up with is that state where they can idle and demand equal shares from someone else's hard earned wealth.

The modern versions of the ant and grasshopper story is a good example of what this is about.

Ant & Grasshopper: A true Story... - Miscellaneous - Free Indian Web Discussion Forum on India
The American Spectator : The Grasshopper and the Ants

 

[johnie1]

@asingh

mate what i intended to tell was the state has turned the opressor here to grab the lands of the tribals.now i am in no way defending the naxals.what the naxals are is a tool used by the tribals to fight the state.ofcourse the naxals will think the opposite.
why do i say this.Because the naxals are having a huge support base.they are being supported by the tribals because the state has in its bid to control the mineral wealth has alienated the tribals.so the tribals have joined the naxals not because of some alien ideology but because they have no choice.
so far the naxals are winning.you ask a question have the promises been kept.if the promises were not kept do you think the tribals would support the naxals.do you for a instant believe that it is possible to coerce a human being into doing something for which he does not like or believe in?.to answer your question yes the naxals have kept some of their promises like getting fair price for the forest produce etc.

you seem to divide the state into upper echelons and others.You are wrong here.sure the upper echelons(Mahendra Karma) wanted to keep their dominant feudal power and when they saw that the naxals were spoke in the wheel they tried opposing on their own and when they failed used the state to do that.so the Mahendra Karma created salwa judum which were worse than the naxals themselves and then the state adopted it.so the state and the upper echelons are one in their pursuit of the mineral wealth of the tribals.

for more info on Mahendra karmayou can visit
Mahendra Karma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

now my question is why does the state not leave the tribals and their lands alone.why this development at all costs.nobody talks about this.why this signing of mou's with so many companies without consultation with the people who live on the land.We live in a democracy and hence this should not be possible.But it happens and is still happening.Why not address the underlying cause and then maybe you can control the effect.

The problem is we have selfish politicans,selfish companies who do not give a shite about others.infact nobody gives a shite for anybody in this country.Its all for themselves and their children and grandchildren.if for a momment they could think of the cause this whole trouble could have avoided.so many lives could have been saved.

you talk about gaddar being a scary man.just look at the pics and see the support he had.dont taint everything with the propoganda of the state.you are too intelligent to fall into this trap.
get ur sources of information from as wide as possible then think and judge for yourself.

@l33t_5n1p3r_max
if you can keep your arguments to a decent level talking about facts instead of testrostone fuelled,vitriolic comments we can argue.if not this will be the last response to you.you can label me whatever you want.dont give a shite mate.

now if u need development by asking companies like sterlite to mine there why not ask the people who live there.why this forcing development as per your thinking onto others throats.

 

[coolraghav]

IMHO,

I think naxals are there in the rural areas, coz there is nothing to do.

there are no pubs..no clubs.. no chicks to play with..

they dont have malls to go shopping..

moreover no broadband :S :S

so after sometime dey get bored and start counter strike 1.6 and COD in real life.

 

[harayumi]

i read some where that these maoists and naxals were christian converts and receive a lot of money from out side of the country through
the church
does anyone know more about this?

 

[asingh]

Johnie1:
There is of course no exacts over here. Right. If you would have read my post carefully you would have realized, that I am seeking a solution. Not hitting out with subjective critique. The plight is with the tribal population as of now. And I am sure you will agree, this group is in a situation where it is easy to lure them. And convert them into fellowship. I had asked is this what Mazumdar envisioned in the late 60's. Probably not. See the behavior of the Naxals. Would you call their activities reactive or proactive as of now. They are clearly running a parallel government of their own, in the nether deep within the Red Corridor. The way you describe the activities of the state it makes India expansionists seem like terrorists on their own. Again, do not get me wrong, am not justifying the raw deal which this belt has to undergo. In all my prior posts I am also shouting out for a balance, and have explained the difficulties rightly so.

I totally agree with you regarding the ignorance of the state. How people are made homeless, and MNCs are given land. Where did I divide the state into upper echelons and the 'rest'. And just because Mr. Gaddar has a huge support, does not justify his means or ends he is trying to achieve. I do understand the ideology and thought process of the Maoist (at least for our nation), why else would I have opened this thread. My thoughts are not tainted by the media blitzkrieg. Regarding propaganda, if the state is exercising it, I feel so are the Maoists. I understand where you are coming from, to look at the dire strait conditions of the tribal and farmer population, and how the Maoist group wants to help this strata of society. What solution do you suggest..? Or should we let it continue as it is..?

Lord Nemesis, most people say this. Since the movement stems from the philosophy of Mao Zedong and his flavor of communism. But many argue, that this group only seeks equal and basic rights for tribal/farmer and pheasant class.

harayumi, I doubt that is true. The religious angle is not pertinent here.

 

[blr_p]

The maoists have been raiding and launching attacks since the past few months in an effort to provoke the centre to respond.

You have this backwards, the attack on the Jawans was because the state is increasingly cracking down on the naxals. The naxals wanted to send an unambigious message to the state to back off. To increase the naxal's morale and decrease that of the state.

There were many factual errors in your comparison with other conflicts, i've decided to ignore them in the interests of staying on topic.

Broadway, who is being exploited here, and who is exactly exploiting. Are not the Naxals doing the same. The state did try via the Salwa Judum to bring a control to the volatile situation. What was the result. It started of as an anti-Naxalite movement in the Chattisgarh area, moved to Bastar and Dantewada. Via this and deployment of SPOs (Special Police Officers), it was a head-to-head battle with the Naxals. It failed. This group is now just as violent as the Naxalites, and there are records of them behaving exactly in the manner to which they were called to eradicate. The state sings this as pure success. Salwa Judum hired out juveniles and ex-Naxalites. Hardly a measure of success, with Supreme Courth having to intervene. What boggles my brain, the expanse of penetration is huge. Really huge. Scary.

It's good you picked up on this.

Andhra's response to the naxals = greyhounds + revamped police force
Chattisgarh's response = Salwah Judum

Using tribals to fight naxals with subsidies and very little training. It was destined to fail.

Was this due to a lack of resources. Chattisgarh has a fraction of the resources compared to what the Andhra's could throw at the problem. And therefore the weakest of all states in this equation or an ideal base for the naxals to hangout.

so far the naxals are winning.

They are because they can cross state borders with ease. State police depts dont talk to each other and have to use the centre as an intermediary. The naxals know the terrain inside out, have superior intelligence and can pick the state's agents out from the shadows of the jungle.

 

[johnie1]

@singh

The solution is simple.infact very simple.
constitute a high powered commitee of eminent people ie those who are untainted by corruption and other corrupt vestiges of power and ask them to talk to the tribals reagarding their greviances.get a compromise.if the mines are to be mined then the tribals have to be given a stake in it.Let the tribals decide as to what to do with their land.share the profits with them.empower them.dont trash the landscape making it posinous for them and their future generations.this can be done if the government is upright and has moral authority.sadly this government does not have the moral right.I feel no government will have a moral authority.The court can intervene on behalf of the government.A solution can be found if the corrupt middlemen can be cut out.

once the dialogue has been initiated with the tribals the naxalites will have to find some other cause to fight for.

The problem is the state has made the tribals go behind the naxals and as such getting access to the tribals will be difficult.

If an equitable solution can be found with both the parties being winners(ie the tribals and the companies)without the govt middlemen and the naxals then this problem can be solved.

@blr_p,

we meet again.The reason you have given for the naxals are winning is just a small factor in the overall scheme of things.if the people are against you do you think you can hold out with force yes superior force.Does not history in innumerable conflicts teach us something.force can be made to appear as if it has won but in the longer run it will fail.why not address the tribals grievances .Then the state does not need to spend vast amounts on police.The state can then use the amounts on better administration.
No the bottom line is the naxals have the support of the tribals.I donno if they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts but it (the support )is there.wean the support away and the naxals have nothing even if they know the forests inside out.

 

[blr_p]

@blr_p,

we meet again.The reason you have given for the naxals are winning is just a small factor in the overall scheme of things.

Certainly, but it just goes to show that the state isn't even capable as yet of tackling the naxals. There is a big difference in strength between the two parties. This gap has to be bridged before the naxals can be brought to the table. Cutting a deal from a weak position is never a good idea.

So once they can be tackled effectively, what next ?

if the people are against you do you think you can hold out with force yes superior force.Does not history in innumerable conflicts teach us something.force can be made to appear as if it has won but in the longer run it will fail.why not address the tribals grievances .Then the state does not need to spend vast amounts on police.The state can then use the amounts on better administration.

No the bottom line is the naxals have the support of the tribals.I donno if they are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts but it (the support )is there.wean the support away and the naxals have nothing even if they know the forests inside out.

Agreed. Force is used here to even the playing field to restore rights back to the ppl. The most important of which is to chose their own govt. Force alone without an economic component does not provide a lasting solution.

If an equitable solution can be found with both the parties being winners(ie the tribals and the companies)without the govt middlemen and the naxals then this problem can be solved.

In theory yes, but the overarching question always is WHO owns the land. Tribals claim it as theirs as they've lived there forever. This is the same dilemma that faced native ppl all over the world during the colonial era. The solution in those days was might is right. Of course we cannot do exactly the same today as we are dealing with OUR people in OUR country and also why our armed forces cannot be brought into this except in a training & support role.

So how does one decide how much the tribals get ?

The Andhras did give away tracts of land for this purpose as well as provided for irrigation etc so the land could be productive.

The problem is the state has made the tribals go behind the naxals and as such getting access to the tribals will be difficult.

Andhras did not cut any deals with the naxals, they pushed them out and dealt directly with the people. Need to find some papers that go into more of the details.

Johnie1:
See the behavior of the Naxals. Would you call their activities reactive or proactive as of now. They are clearly running a parallel government of their own, in the nether deep within the Red Corridor.

Exactly, as any insurgents would do because the state gave up on the ppl there and opened the space for any enterprising grp to fill the gap.

Its hard to say to what degree the naxals support the tribals. Do the tribals have a choice or not. If they don't then they are coerced into supporting the naxals. So i don't buy the idea that the naxals are the true representative of the tribals as to a large extent there is no choice in the matter.

The way you describe the activities of the state it makes India expansionists seem like terrorists on their own. Again, do not get me wrong, am not justifying the raw deal which this belt has to undergo. In all my prior posts I am also shouting out for a balance, and have explained the difficulties rightly so.

This position gets exaggerated to highlight the rights of the tribals, its not to be taken literally.

I totally agree with you regarding the ignorance of the state. How people are made homeless, and MNCs are given land.

This is what is used to claim infringing on the rights of the tribals. Its one aspect but the question remains, namely who is robbing the tribals more ?

The state or the naxals

The state did nothing and allowed the naxals to take advantage of the situation.

The blame for the situation in my eyes rests solely with the state in failing to enforce its writ in the concerned areas.

 

[asingh]

Can we come to the conclusion, that the middle layer Naxalite regime should not be involved as an intermediary layer between the concerned population and the government.

Points set aside (which we tackle later), for the above hypothetical new beginning:
1. The State has failed.
2. Will the Naxals just give up their cause, and downsize -- cease operations.
3. The delivery of upliftment infrastructure and restoration of basic human amenities will be honest and untainted.

What you all think pertaining to this.

 

[blr_p]

Can we come to the conclusion, that the middle layer Naxalite regime should not be involved as an intermediary layer between the concerned population and the government.

Yes

1. The State has failed.

‘The problem in Chhattisgarh is not Naxalism. It is the administration’. More detail in this article, by KPS Gill
Behind the Naxal success story

2. Will the Naxals just give up their cause, and downsize -- cease operations.

Not without a fight and unless the state steps up to it. No deals otherwise.

3. The delivery of upliftment infrastructure and restoration of basic human amenities will be honest and untainted.

I'll leave this one for later.

The modern versions of the ant and grasshopper story is a good example of what this is about.

Ant & Grasshopper: A true Story... - Miscellaneous - Free Indian Web Discussion Forum on India
The American Spectator : The Grasshopper and the Ants

To understand Chattisgarh, KPS Gill recommends the book Green Mansions by William Hudson

 

[l33t_5n1p3r_max]

if you can keep your arguments to a decent level talking about facts instead of testrostone fuelled,vitriolic comments we can argue.

What are these facts you speak of?? Have you ever studied an insurgency properly in your life? They all have one thing in common, "support" of the people..lol. Now this "support" might be voluntary but in the majority of the cases, its plain brute force. ULFA recruited assami youth straight out of colleges by threatening their relatives, the KAshmiri separatists routinely kill surrendered militants and threaten their family members, the LTTE itself used civillians as human shields.

The common concept behind all these militant groups is the fact that they use FORCE to get their "support". Another common thing is that all these groups usually have a big do--gooder daddy in the form of your friendly neighborhood human rights bullshitter who will pass comments on how the poor tribals are being deprived of their "forests" and "land" all the while sitting in their downtown Mumbai/Oslo/name liberal capital here apartment. The Kashmiri militants have amnesty battling for them, the LTTE had Norway negotiating for them, your goddamn naxals have fakers like Arundhati Roy and their obscure hyperbole supporting them.

Talk about facts with me. Where exactly has communism ever worked? It has been proven to be a sub-standard form of government. The Soviet union at its peak was not half-way close to the west in anything except weapon systems development, China does not even follow communism to the core. What makes you think the maoists represent the people? Have you ever been in those areas? Have you talked to these villagers? Have the naxals brought about any changes for the people?

There is a clear Chinese hand in this if you just care to look at some of these naxal training videos and then compare it to some of the random Chinese troop training videos. Hint - look for videos of them vaulting over walls. The Indian army is taught to use both hands to clamber up using their legs, the PLA prefers to use a pivot at the hip region to cross walls.

These are not some do-gooders here..they are people who will sell your country to the goddamn Chinese just in the name of their beliefs.

 

[GrimReaper]

IMHO,

I think naxals are there in the rural areas, coz there is nothing to do.

there are no pubs..no clubs.. no chicks to play with..

they dont have malls to go shopping..

moreover no broadband :S :S

so after sometime dey get bored and start counter strike 1.6 and COD in real life.

Very immaturely put , but its spot on .

Maoists thrive in India's least developed areas . Indian government has acknowledged one of the key reasons for their success was backwardness in the effected parts .

Maoists create jobs for the hordes of poor unemployed rural youth living in the red corridor . Ideologies only play a catalytic role .

i read some where that these maoists and naxals were christian converts

Rubbish

Whoever said that was trying to stoke communal tensions .There is no religious angle to this conflict .

and receive a lot of money from out side of the country

Initially when they first formed they received financial aid from China (since they were communists who followed Mao Zedong's commi ideology...Mao Zedong was a Chinese premier a few decades back )

But when they started splintering into sub groups ,China got disillusioned and stopped all aid . Now they are largely on their own .

That is one of the key reasons they collect all weapons and things of value from their dead opponents (CRPF mostly) after an attack .They are also known to make improvised weapons like pipe guns .Which clearly shows they are short of funds and weapons .

 

[sunny27]

l33t sniper has a point here about support of the people being deliberately thrust on the common man by the extremists/naxals.

they also punish civilians/individuals and try them in their own people's court to dispel justice--that job lies with the judicial system of india and not any individual or group

murder of people belonging to the law enforcement agencies never gets backing from the human right groups or social activists - they give a damn about the individual who has been murdered/killed to protect their rights but they fight for the rights of naxals-the people causing all the trouble now. the figures speak for themselves-the number of innocent civilians killed by the naxals keeps rising but no one looks at these figures particularly the activists.

 

[asingh]

Blr_p, Sir Gill was quite a failure to tackle the Red faction on their home turf. Not as successful as he was in the Punjab. Read this book, if you can for better insights on the same. It is quite interesting. Red Sun : Travels In Naxalite Country by Sudeep Chakravarti. The fight is what we have to minimize when negotiations begin with the Red team. It will not be easy. Could be utterly impossible in the beginning to even have a beginning.

l33t_5n1p3r_max, interesting angle you bring up. But the conviction with which you speak -- I doubt this statement is 100% true. Yes, there 'might' be ideological influence from across the border cause of the leader Mao Zedong, but I really doubt China is that interested to create insurgency within the state, in order to capture. There approach is different -- at least for the White Tiger. Also from the macro level, we assume the Indian Maoists want a communist regime, but that is again debatable. Not supporting them here, but playing more of devils advocate.

GrimReaper:
Maoists two have active supporters in urban cities. Many colleges and social groups follow their ideology and provide support via logistics/money or voluntary service. Believe me it is there. We see them more in the villages, cause that is the original mission of the group. They have to operate there.

 

[harayumi]

Johnie1:

harayumi, I doubt that is true. The religious angle is not pertinent here.

Naxalites claim to be supported by the poorest rural populations, especially Dalits and Adivasis.[10] They encourage conversion of backward class Hindus to Christianity and has killed Hindus who resist Christian missionary activities.

Naxalite-Maoist insurgency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nagaland for Christ

Congress leaders said ‘Nagaland for Christ’. On this line slowly and slowly India is coming in the grip of Anti-Hindus through Christian Missionaries and insurgent groups including terrorists, Maoists

* There is clear evidence which confirms that some International Christian organizations are backing terrorism and separatist movements in the north-east. These church backed organisations are providing funds, arms and ammunitions with the aim of creating a separate Christian state.

* The Church, in the form of foreign missionaries, has been working in the tribal regions in India for almost two centuries. In the garb of charity, the foreign missionaries have been engaged in extensive religious conversion and anti-national activities promoting terrorist separatist movements.

Christian Maoists nexus in Orissa

Foreign funds to Indian NGOs soar

Statistics released by the home ministry regarding ‘foreign funds to NGOs’ show that India, which has a total of 33,937 registered associations, received Rs 12,289.63 crore in foreign contributions during 2006-07 as against Rs 7,877.57 crore in 2005-06, a substantial increase of nearly Rs 4,400 crore (56%) in just one year. The US, Germany, the UK, Switzerland and Italy were the top five foreign contributors during 2006-07. These five countries have consistently been the big donors since 2004-05. Spain, the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada and France are the other countries which figure prominently in the list of foreign donors.

The US has been the biggest donor to Indian NGOs in the last several years. It contributed over Rs 2,971 crore in 2006-07 alone. As far as Pakistan is concerned, the country contributed Rs 43.28 lakh in 2004-05, Rs 71.70 lakh in 2005-06 and Rs 21.99 lakh in 2006-07. ………..

Among the states, Tamil Nadu has the distinction of having the highest number of registered associations (3,009) and getting the highest amount of foreign contributions in India. The “Times of India” newspaper has reported that foreign funding to NGOs in India has seen a massive boost of 56 percent in the last one year. It now totals a staggering 2.5 billion dollars or so annually. This amounts to a mind-boggling Rupees one thousand crores every month– enough to destablise the country many times over. Most of this money from other countries is coming, it is claimed, for the benefit of “cultural and religious” institutions. Our friend to the West, Pakistan, has also begun to fund quite a few NGOs in India.

Considering this massive inflow of foreign funds in the name of ”culture,” India should logically have become the most cultured country in the world by now. It obviously is yet to attain this distinction. So the big question is: Where is this money actually going? Is it going into the pockets of Maoists in the jungles of Chhattisgarh to pay salaries to their cadres? (The money is usually routed to them through the churches that dot the jungles.) Is it being used for conversions to Christianity? Is it being used to build new churches and mosques in every nook and corner of India? Is this money meant for the Christian terrorists of North Eastern states ? Is it being used to take as many resident Indians on the payrolls of foreigners as possible so that the NGOs that these Indians staff can be used to protest against everything from Tata Nano to Narmada Dam to Hindu festivals to arrest of terrorists?

Interestingly, a huge chunk of this money is specifically going to Tamil Nadu. What is the reason? After floating the Aryan-Dravidian theory, are the White Christians now trying to Christianise the “Dravidians”? (Incidentally, the word “Dravidian” was coined by a British missionary, Robert Caldwell.) What is so much foreign money doing in Tamil Nadu? Why is the Indian government allowing billions of dollars from other races to land in India every year? Russia and China do not allow other countries to fund their NGOs. Is Indian government smarter than the Russian or Chinese strategists or is it actually quite foolish? With regard to this “charity” money being poured into India by hostile races from far away, Indians should get one thing very clear: “In this world, there is no such thing as a free lunch. They will have to pay the bill one day in terms of their territorial integrity.” Capiche?

How NGOs are Being Used by Missionaries

There are billions of dollars being sent by white Christians to India for “development work.” This money is what empowers missionaries and allows them to bribe poor Indians for conversion and build infrastructure such as churches, prayer halls, “community halls” and “Jesus wells.” (Jesus wells are wells in villages dug by missionaries from which you are allowed to draw water only if you agree to convert.) Every penny of this money being recieved from abroad has only one aim: convert Indians and uproot all native faiths and culture.

Without this funding from abroad, the missionary machinery will grind to a halt. The Indian government says this money is not a threat to national security. Well, it sure will be once enough number of people get converted. Is there any place in India where Christians or Muslims are in a majority and not fighting for secession from India, from Kashmir to North East states to Maoists of central India (90 percent of whose cadres are Christian converts)?

This money is nothing but “secession” money that is being sent to India by White Christians and must be stopped at all costs if Hindus still love their land. China and Russia do not allow this money from the West to enter their countries for “development” or “culture” or whatever excuse the White Christians can think of. It is only the “liberal” Hindus who do this good turn to them and allow their own feet to be cut slowly.

Once the missionaries manage to create a critical mass of Christian converts, their godfathers in the West will immediately trigger an armed terrorist movement against “Brahmanical oppression” of the flock and stake claim over the land on behalf of Jesus. (The same game White Christians have played in Nagaland.) Their strategy is: first convert, and then arm the converts. Indians better be careful. Have you heard of the Niyogi Committee report about activities of Christian missionaries? It had warned exactly the same thing.

Hindu Wisdom - Politics of Conversion II

Niyogi Committee Report on Christian Missionary Activities

The Niyogi Committee Report On Christian Missionary Activities is a report published by the Government of Madhya Pradesh in 1956. It is divided into two volumes and three parts. It is a controversial report on missionary activities in India.

The Niyogi Committee Report

The Committee contacted 11,360 persons, interviewed people from 700 different villages and received 375 written statements and 385 replies from a questionnaire.[2] They visited hospitals, schools, churches and other institutions in 14 districts.[3] It toured several areas and talked to witnesses who were "mostly prejudiced"[4]. The questionnaire had 99 questions, and was described by the High Court thus:

a long and searching document.. in many places it amounts to an accusation. Some of the questions border on an inquisition, and may well be equated to a "fishing expedition" on the supposition that something discreditable can be discovered[4].

The Committee recorded that "there was a general complaint from the non-Christian side that the schools and hospitals were being used as means of securing converts." It said that "Reference was also made to the practice of the Roman Catholic priests or preachers visiting newborn babies to give ‘ashish’ (blessings) in the name of Jesus, taking sides in litigation or domestic quarrels, kidnapping of minor children and abduction of women and recruitment of labour for plantations in Assam or Andaman as a means of propagating the Christian faith among the ignorant and illiterate people." (Goel 1998, p.13)[5]

The report writes that especially Roman Catholic missions used money-lending as a device for proselytisation. They gave loans which were later written off if the debtor became a Christian. (Goel 1998, p.115)[6]

The recommendations of the report

The committee gave the following recommendations:[10]

* (1) those missionaries whose primary object is proselytisation should be asked to withdraw and the large influx of foreign missionaries should be checked;

* (2) the use of medical and other professional services as a direct means of making conversions should be prohibited by law;

* (3) attempts to convert by force or fraud or material inducements, or by taking advantage of a person’s inexperience or confidence or spiritual weakness or thoughtlessness, or by penetrating into the religious conscience of persons for the purpose of consciously altering their faith, should be absolutely prohibited;

* (4) the Constitution of India should be amended in order to rule out propagation by foreigners and conversions by force, fraud and other illicit means;

* (5) legislative measures should be enacted for controlling conversion by illegal means;

* (6) rules relating to registration of doctors, nurses and other personnel employed in hospitals should be suitably amended to provide a condition against evangelistic activities during professional service; and

* (7) circulation of literature meant for religious propaganda without approval of the State Government should be prohibited. (Goel 1998, 163-164)

Niyogi Committee Report on Christian Missionary Activities - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Country:

Ugand

(WEA) The predominantly Christian populations of Southern Sudan and Northern Uganda have been terrorized and traumatized over the past. 18 years by a blasphemous cult-militia called the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA). Whilst LRA atrocities have occasionally shocked the world, the world has, to its shame, largely ignored the immense suffering of the people. The LRA abduct and terrorize children, converting them into traumatised and disturbed child soldiers and sex slaves. The LRA commits atrocities too evil and horrific to detail here. Their most well-known signature trademark is the mutilation of faces; removing lips, ears, noses - leaving their victims to live the rest of their lives as living monuments to LRA terror. The LRA has departed from its original political aims and today contemporary LRA terror is little more than the crippling persecution of a predominantly Christian people who have known revival. Priests, nuns, pastors, missionaries, churches, Christian activities (such as funerals), and Christian missions and services, are specifically targeted for terror. It is a persecution that is generated not by political or religious systems but by occult forces associated with LRA leader, spirit medium Joseph Kony. the light has finally gone for Christians in southern Uganda. Buwembo says that he attended services in several churches on Easter Sunday and the message was always the same - pray for Joseph Kony, pray for the suffering people of the north, pray for God to intervene in the situation in the north, pray for God to deliver peace.

Christian Suffering & Church Persecution - International Christian Concern

Maoists and naxals were nothing different from this...

and what do you guys think about all these?

there has always been fight for religion and destruction of other older cultures throughout the history by the west

what happened in India was during British rule was also nothing different

How British destroyed India?

Lord Macaulay’s address to the British Parliament in 2 February, 1835.

I have traveled across the length and breadth of India and I have not seen one person who is a beggar, who is a thief, such wealth I have seen in this country, such high moral values, people of such caliber, that I do not think we would ever conquer this country, unless we break the very backbone of this nation, which is her spiritual and cultural heritage, and, therefore, I propose that we replace her old and ancient education system, her culture, for if the Indians think that all that is foreign and English is good and greater than their own, they will lose their self esteem, their native culture and they will become what we want them, a truly dominated nation.

Tamil - How British destroyed India?

what we study as history in our school cover less than 1% of real history which tells about that india got better only after the aryans(europeans) got here

and goes on for pages and pages about mughals military might and art without mentioning about the real history that happened here and ofcourse all these are racially motivated...

what we are now is a country of people brainwashed by western way of life and who doesn't know about our true values...

and the corporate media funded by the west conveniently cover up all the truth that was happening here in this country along with the puppet government....

what they are doing now is the same as divide and rule(like aryan and dravidian theory created by the british) by exploiting all the poor people through caste system and forcing them to convert and christian missionaries have been said to do this for a long time...

i will stop my rambling for now

i think this whole thread is off track from the beginning without looking at the real threat.

 

[GrimReaper]

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Indian government is always reactive rather than pro-active .They learn their lessons only after suffering colossal losses .Only after Indira and Rajiv Gandhi's assassination did they form the National Security Guard (NSG) . And now 2 factions of their armed wing Black Cat commandos and Special protections group are Asia's finest .

Only after Andhra police suffered crippling losses did they initiate the formation of the Andhra Grey Hounds .Currently Andhra's situation is better than most other states affected by the Naxal problem .
Tactically inferior , under-trained , under-payed police force + paramilitary in the effected areas was the reason for the massive loss .Naxalites use the same ambush tactics over and over again and CRPF fall for it over and over again . Clearly showing they are under-trained .

They should intitate the formation of a commando battalion that can work across states . There is already one such battalion (COBRA), though i dont know what they are currently doing .

Harayumi

I am speechless . Except for the wikipedia reference all the other reference you gave are extremely dubious .

1..

They encourage conversion of backward class Hindus to Christianity and has killed Hindus who resist Christian missionary activities.- wikipedia

This statement has been made purely based on the single incident . That of the killing of swami which sparked the anti-christian riots .And notice the grammatical error "has" . Definitely would like to know the editor who inserted that statement in Wikipedia

2. Nagaland Article - 90% of people in Nagaland (which is a small union territory) are Christians . why convert anymore ? . More importantly what has it got to do with Maoists ? Maoists dont operate in Nagaland

3. I did nt even bother reading after the words "White Christians" . Somebody as racist as that author can never provide a balanced analysis of any situation .

4. This is a thread about Naxalism not proselytisation fftopic:

5. WTF UGANDA ???? fftopic:fftopic:

6 . British Colonialism !!!!!!!! I give up

Oh please Naxalism has more to do with poverty and unemployment than race and religion .

i think this whole thread is off track from the beginning without looking at the real threat.

You are the one who is offtopic . I am an amateur historian myself and have already read some of the links you posted (not the dubious ones you dug up from god knows where). I have spent hours clearing up the misconception about the Aryan invasion and white supremacist theories which float around the internet and to which many Indians subscribe .

but unlike you i am not biased against any religion and I don not subscribe to race theory at all . To me whites are as good as blacks who are as good as ....Everybody has a past they are not proud off .In India we have caste issues . loads of Buddhists were killed by Hindu Bhramins . It became the No 1 religion in Sri lanka , China , Japan but not in India its birthplace ! .

I dont want to derail the thread but

I still stand by my statement . Naxalites do not receive any backing from Abroad .