when is NOKIA N8 going to release in INDIA ??

[desiibond]

You really think i would risk getting pre release hands on with future devices just to prove myself to you ??? LOL , its ok if u dont believe me....

Anyways , not my place to tell you what correct and whats not. What suits me might not suit you... Symbian is fine for me currently and i am also fully satisfied with my N900.... What i am waiting for is the MeeGo OS device.

given that you tried both N900 and N8, which combination would've been better:

1) N8 with S^3

2) N8 with Maemo 5

3) N8 with Android

 

[dhruvrock2000]

Maemo 5 as good as it maybe... ( trust me it is good ) is over... The only OS i am going in for is MeeGo and what i have seen of it yet is AMAZING. Symbian 3 and Maemo 5 are totally different beasts... Try out S^3 for yourself , it is actually a very big improvement over S60 5th Edition. I especially loved the live multitasking preview. And you very well know , that iOS 4 and WinMo 7 both dont support full proper multitasking.

I do not have a lot of experience with Android nor do i like it much ( personal preference , nothing against the OS) so i cant comment much on the Android part...

 

[desiibond]

Maemo 5 as good as it maybe... ( trust me it is good ) is over... The only OS i am going in for is MeeGo and what i have seen of it yet is AMAZING. Symbian 3 and Maemo 5 are totally different beasts... Try out S^3 for yourself , it is actually a very big improvement over S60 5th Edition. I especially loved the live multitasking preview. And you very well know , that iOS 4 and WinMo 7 both dont support full proper multitasking.

I do not have a lot of experience with Android nor do i like it much ( personal preference , nothing against the OS) so i cant comment much on the Android part...

what I meant is

Had Nokia stayed with Maemo and had they released N8 with Maemo and put another 2 to 3 devices in the pipeline, they would've had a very good platform already. Instead shuffling here and there, they just destroyed a capable platform. And did it work to stick to S^3? No. S^3 is already getting lot of negative vibe that it's old rum in new bottle. Nokia is planning to ditch it. They are working on MeeGo and S^4 and god knows what else? So, the path is (as one said) murky.

I had a brief look at N8 and nah, I clearly felt my Legend with Sense UI is better and refined than S^3. Once I go inside, it's all deja vu and I certainly don't want those 5800 days back again.

PS: Less than 6 months ago, I thought that Nokia is on right path with Maemo but it's all gone now

 

[Lord Nemesis]

I really want to see Android on N8 or on N900.

Can you even run Android properly on N8 kind of hardware? For symbian its pretty good hardware, for Android its not. You would have to make sacrifices.

That would be a breathtaking combination but Nokia is just hanging on to their old Symbian out of ego. Look at how well HTC and Apple are doing. While Apple is riding on the ecosystem, HTC is riding on clean and effective UI on top of Android. That is what Nokia is lacking. A new generation OS and a clear path that shows proper detail.

Why don't Apple or MS make a new fresh OS from ground up every one or two years instead of just improving and adding to their already existing one and refreshing the UI? That's cause It makes sense improve a mature OS than making a half baked OS every one or two years. Both Android and iOS have been trying to catching with functionality that Symbain had for years. It doesn't make sense to abandon a already mature OS instead of trying to improve what it lacks.

Fragmentation. hmm. Atleast there is one OS called Android. Nokia doesn't even know which OS to go after.

meego
maemo
s60
s40
s^3
s^4

talk about fragmentation.

Can you name one major mobile phone company apart from Apple that's working with a single mobile platform. HTC has Win Mo and Android, Samsung has WinMo, Android and Bada. Similary LG and SE too work with Multiple platforms.

Phones like Nexus One and Droid X come with active noise cancellation that wipes off background noise. Isn't this what we call crystal clear voice and please don't say this thing-of-past 'nokia is best in call quality'.

The point is that with Nokia phones I didn't ever feel the need for additional microphones and fancy technologies (active noise cancellation is not flawless either) just to be able to hear clearly what the other person is saying.

AMOLED display. Did you ever try to use a phone with AMOLED display outdoor? The sunlight visibility is the only problem that I have with my Legend. it's an issue fixed in Super AMOLED.

I know about AMOLED issues and how S AMOLED has improved visibility in sun light. But the point is that it has nothing to do with Nokia or Symbian. Samsung made those displays just recently and currently no other manufacturer have them. N8 was designed in the era of AMOLED displays and it uses one.

Symbian is lightweight because it is 90s/early 2000s OS. Win95 can run on 32MB of RAM and it doesn't mean that it can go head on with win7 or snow leopard.

You buy hardware and software according to your needs. If what you want to accomplish is easily handled by a light weight OS, would you still build a uber high end rig and run Windows 7 or Leopard on it. Why don't you build a rig with Core i9 and 12GB RAM.

TV Out : it's sad that your office doesn't have a proper PC to give presentation. I just transfer the preso using wifi (VPN) to my workspace in a server that is in office and deliver the presentation using my laptop or workstation. See, this TV out etc thing is rarely or in most cases never used.

The point is you don't need to carry a laptop. Your presentation is safely in your pocket. btw, I did that presentation that way just for kicks, But I won't deny that I have often felt the need for such a feature. If there is no such use case, why do you think Sam sung is making phones with built in projectors. Carrying and displaying presentations int he most portable manner is a use case for many people.

Nobody cares whether the phone has TV Out or whether it can play Dolby or prints money. What they care is the platform.

That's just a generalization from your side. You may not care, but obviously there are people who do. When Galaxy S was announced, there was no word on TV-Out capabilities, A lot of people were not happy about that. When it was found that it supports SD Video out, at least a few people were happy about it.

Is the phone easy to use and how easy is it on the eye.
Does the phone have good number of apps to work with.
How seamless is the application stores integration in phone's OS.
Options Options Options

That list changes form person to person. Its all about options, but what options matter to you and what don't change from person to person. If have every thing I require, I don't need an app store and a tonne of apps. Tell me how many thousands of apps have you found useful and installed on your phone?

And that's the reason why Android and iOS are growing. While iOS is hugged by those who want simplest of designs, Android is hugged by those who want to do lot more with the phone than showing presentations in TV or projection (no offense meant).

Lastly, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Palm OS, WERE workhorses. Everyone else moved on to design platforms that make use of current gen hardware and make use of business models but Nokia, is still hanging on to platform designed a decade earlier and has no concrete plan.

So why is Symbian still on top and selling. The market shares may have realigned a bit because of new platforms, but sales from Symbian have actually increased in 2009 compared to previous years. And yeah, symbian phones do a lot more than display presentations, what Android and iOS have on their side is polished UI and a seeming large app stores out of which you would probably never install even a 100 apps.

Also for those who think just having a bigger display makes a phone bigger, think again coz it's the total volume of the phone that is to be taken into account.

Nokia N8 with 3.5" display has volume of 5.2804 cubic inches
Galaxy S with 4" display has volume of 4.74734168 cubic inches.
N900 with 3.5" display : 7.284 cubic inches
HTC Legend with 3.5" display : 4.425 cubic inches

so, though GS comes with bigger display, it actually occupies less space and is easier to use than N8.

LOL..That's kind of silly to use total volume as a unit to compare. For instance would you be fine with a phone that's 0.1" in thickness, 1" in width and 47" in length. I guess that works out to 4.7 cubic inches. The point is whether the dimensions allow you to carry the phone easily. A phone with a 4.3" screen is not pocket able (in terms of width and height). Not at least for me.

PS: I am not a Nokia/Symbian fan by any means. I have bought a different brand every time I have changed my phone. So far I have bought phones from Nokia, Samsung, Motorola and SE. I defend Symbain because people trash it a lot without a solid basis, I trash iOS because people defend it with out a solid basis. I have defended or trashed Win Mo and Android as and when required.

 

[soumalidon]

ya i agree that millions of apps are not a basis to buy a phone. For me personally i get bored of searching through apps to find that one good app that appeals to me. Thats why i always buy a phone that has everything out of the box. Apps jus become a bonus then.

 

[desiibond]

@ Lord Nemesis : God! why am I even arguing with you. Go and check HTC Hero specification and it is running 2.1 just fine. From this, Do I have to assume that you are either not having enough info on Android or you totally got it wrong?

Just tell me one thing straight. Why are developers not attracted to Symbian platform? Why are they moving to winpho android and iOS? You find answer to this question and you will understand why I am saying that Symbian is stale.

Apple does not need to change OS every two years neither did I ask Nokia to that. Their OS is made to work very well with current generation needs and MS is moving on to newer OS coz their Winmo has become stale. God, how can you not understand this. Actually, it is Nokia that is doing this. S60 -> Maemo -> S^3 -> MeeGo -> S^4 -> WeGo -> S^5 -> ThereGo ->S^6 -> HereGo -> ..... For the past year or two they have changed so many platforms that your statement has become totally valid

FYI, Active noise cancellation implemented in those phones (N1, DX) is for others to hear your voice clearly, not for you to hear others voice (assuming you own N1 or DX). LOL. And do try talking on phone while walking in busy junction or in subway. huh. Do I need to do spoon feeding, dear lord?

Seriously, isn't this what one calls fanboyism? Features that is actually useful is not needed for you and these gimzo like dolby and TV out that are sparsely used are better than features that make sense. Just coz it's given by your favourite company. Dah!

And please enlighten me none in my office carry TV Out cables and this Symbian defense.

PS: I used NOkia, SE, Motorola, LG, HTC phones. And after moving to Android, I didn't even care to touch Symbian and sold off my 5800XM. And if you ask any owner who did similar shift, you will get the same answer. So, whatever you say about TV Out or dolby or phone should not have more than 3.5" display shit, those who are stuck with Symbian world will agree.

btw, a question. You defend Symbian coz it is trashed without a solid basis ( as per your saying ) and you trash iOS because people defend it without a solid bases. But given you mediocre knowledge on Android (you thinking that Android is just polished UI with big app store), why are you arguing? And over to your market share argument. Apple iphone is enjoying stunning market share in USA and Europe. Nokia is enjoying leading market share too in non-USA regions. So, according to you, both are equally good platforms??

And before I end my argument, one more thing, Take XDA forums and other modders. YOu find countless number of ROMs coming out each day with various customizations. Why is it that there isn't a single Symbian phone there? Oh, guess what, it's developers nightmare to customize this OS. Even at Symbian Freak portal, all I see is some stupid looking themes. Oh, totally forgot.

 

[Lord Nemesis]

@ Lord Nemesis : God! why am I even arguing with you. Go and check HTC Hero specification and it is running 2.1 just fine. From this, Do I have to assume that you are either not having enough info on Android or you totally got it wrong?

Hero uses a Qualcomm processor, So I don't know whether I can directly compare it with N8, but Spica uses a 800MHz processor of the same kind and Android runs ok on it. But for Symbian S60v5 that kind of processor is an overkill, assuming the talks abut S^3 being better performing than S60v5 are true, even S^3 must be able to run on a much lower processor. If Android can run great on low end processors, why do we even have phones with 1GHz CPU's like Nexus One (Which is sort of Google's reference android hardware no less) and the crop of newly released or to be released android phones.

Just tell me one thing straight. Why are developers not attracted to Symbian platform? Why are they moving to winpho android and iOS? You find answer to this question and you will understand why I am saying that Symbian is stale.

That's because people see a lot of developers for those platforms at a single place (app store). Symbain too has a lot of developers but they are spread out and sell apps from their own web sites than from a single location. The OVI store is a joke and I agree on that. Another reason is that Nokia made too many different versions of Symbian which was a mistake from the past. If you look at the non-touch enabled apps of symbain, its an incredibly large market. Its not symbian at fault here but Nokia and other companies in the Symbian partnership.

Apple does not need to change OS every two years neither did I ask Nokia to that. Their OS is made to work very well with current generation needs and MS is moving on to newer OS coz their Winmo has become stale. God, how can you not understand this. Actually, it is Nokia that is doing this. S60 -> Maemo -> S^3 -> MeeGo -> S^4 -> WeGo -> S^5 -> ThereGo ->S^6 -> HereGo -> ..... For the past year or two they have changed so many platforms that your statement has become totally valid

Which is why I am saying they should stick to Symbian for Mobile phones and possibly MeeGo for MID/Tablets. Its not like Nokia made owned symbian. It was developed though a joint partnership between several companies and just a couple of years back they bought it outright. What's the point of giving up a mature mobile OS that Android and iOS look to for their next basic functionality feature list.

FYI, Active noise cancellation implemented in those phones (N1, DX) is for others to hear your voice clearly, not for you to hear others voice (assuming you own N1 or DX). LOL. And do try talking on phone while walking in busy junction or in subway. huh. Do I need to do spoon feeding, dear lord?

Nice try Mr.Bond, but I know what noise canceling technology is. I was talking about conversation between two Nokia phones vs two phones with noise canceling. Never felt the need for something like that and yeah, every day when I call home right from the midst of a busy market full of noise, my mom never had any problem listening. My house in Hyd is also near a busy junction full of noises. I too never had any problem. There is background noise no doubt, but neither me nor my mom felt it strong enough to interfere with the conversation. You too owned a 5800 before, did you really ever feel the need for such technology or are you just down playing it because you don't own the phone any more?

Just for additional information, noise canceling technology can be used in two ways. One to filter out noise from a audio signal before it is to be transmitted and the second is to cancel out external noise when you are listening to something.

Seriously, isn't this what one calls fanboyism? Features that is actually useful is not needed for you and these gimzo like dolby and TV out that are sparsely used are better than features that make sense. Just coz it's given by your favourite company. Dah!

And please enlighten me none in my office carry TV Out cables and this Symbian defense.

Don't be silly. I talked about those things because they are extra features added in N8 and the basic ones are already there since a long time. Its not iPhone that you want to talk about basic functionality like multi-tasking that was missing and newly added. Functionality wise Symbian has everything that Android or iOS has except UI and interaction and that's already slated for overhaul in Symbian^4. That's the basic truth even if you don't want to agree. You don't like it fine, but there may be a tonne of people who like the phone for those features and the price it sells for.

PS: I used NOkia, SE, Motorola, LG, HTC phones. And after moving to Android, I didn't even care to touch Symbian and sold off my 5800XM. And if you ask any owner who did similar shift, you will get the same answer. So, whatever you say about TV Out or dolby or phone should not have more than 3.5" display shit, those who are stuck with Symbian world will agree.

For your information I am also planing to get a Android Phone (Mostly Galaxy S and for reasons different than your own: mainly, I don't phones like Nokia X6, N8 and iPhone regardless of who makes them and secondly I want to collect another platform other than Symbian). and I have seen a lot of video demonstration's of various phones, SDK and all, but that doesn't mean I would go ahead and down play symbian from what it deserves. I will probably keep my 5800 for emergencies. It was intended as a temp purchase anyway and was bought in an emergency when my prev phone started giving problems. I kept using it because I did not find a phone to my liking and the 5800 was serving my purpose for the time being.

As for the screen size, It has nothing to to with Nokia or symbain. I have been saying that even before I got a 5800 and I am saying it even now. May be you don't mind dangling a phone with 4.3" display on your belt, but I like to keep my phone in my pant pocket. For me 3.5" to 3.7" is ideal and 4" is the absolute highest that I would ever buy regardless of the OS it runs. That is why I even defended Apple's decision to stick to 3.5" display.

btw, a question. You defend Symbian coz it is trashed without a solid basis ( as per your saying ) and you trash iOS because people defend it without a solid bases. But given you mediocre knowledge on Android (you thinking that Android is just polished UI with big app store), why are you arguing?

Can you elaborate what more Android has over Symbian.

Android is basically a Open source Mobile Linux Kernel with a appealing UI and interaction modules optimized for touch running on top and lot a huge base of apps.

iOS is essentially a miniaturized version of Mac OS X which is essential a modified Open/Free BSD.

Symbian is also essentially a similar POSIX OS that is far more mature than either, but lacks in the UI dept.

And over to your market share argument. Apple iphone is enjoying stunning market share in USA and Europe. Nokia is enjoying leading market share too in non-USA regions. So, according to you, both are equally good platforms??

Symbian has market share more than Android and iOS combined. If you discount the fanboish rant's of people, all major mobile operating systems are good and suited for a different category of people despite each having their own deficiencies. I talk about strengths and weaknesses of every platform in a fair manner.

And before I end my argument, one more thing, Take XDA forums and other modders. YOu find countless number of ROMs coming out each day with various customizations. Why is it that there isn't a single Symbian phone there? Oh, guess what, it's developers nightmare to customize this OS. Even at Symbian Freak portal, all I see is some stupid looking themes. Oh, totally forgot.

How many iOS Custom ROM's are available? By custom ROM I don't mean cracked/unlocked OS update. Just to add, availability of a custom ROM is not always a good thing. Their existence may also mean that the stock firmware is not good enough and something had to be fixed/added.

 

[desiibond]

If Android in your opinion is "Android is basically a Open source Mobile Linux Kernel with a appealing UI and interaction modules optimized for touch running on top and lot a huge base of apps.", I am really sorry. I just can't explain you. Whatever I say, you will come back with the same statement and it won't go anywhere. Instead I have right now started writing an article clearly explaining why Android has become the force to reckon with and Symbian is in a deep dive! Stay tuned!

Please do remember, Android is not just some fancy UI. It gives manufacturers the ability to change the OS as per their liking and then gives the freedom to app developers to replace the system apps and system functions with developer written apps or modules. I can take the vanilla version of Android and completely change the face of it just by install apps that does specific tasks and making them the default apps. This is something that you can never do on Symbian.

See this thread for example:

http://www.techenclave.com/mobile-phones/annoying-problem-sms-scrolling-htc-legend-169458.html

The OP is using Legend and HTC's implementation of SMS app is not functioning properly. In case of Symbian OS, he can do nothing but live with it, send a mail to Nokia and hope he gets a fix in next firmware update. But that's not the case with Android. He went ahead and installed app called handcent SMS that fixed the issue. (though the OP went back to default app for the UI look). It's just one example. I didn't like the default HTC mail app. So, I went ahead and installed MailDroid which saves mails to SD card, thereby saving lot of space in ROM. Some didn't like the lock screen, so few went ahead and added custom locks (after rooting) and few installed apps like Street Fighter Lock 2. And you may have heard about apps like Google Goggles, Layar, Plurk, guternberger, Kindle, footprints. The appstore is because there is a lot to do with the OS and there are apps for every different purpose. So, every week you find a new app that does something different, keeping your interests alive. On the Symbian side, it's something like buy the phone, get few apps from appstore and just keep using the phone. You want new apps for this phone, oh sorry, the platform is abandoned by Nokia so devs have moved on, tough luck buddy.

This, my friend, is what Symbian lacks! It's called freedom to change the face of OS the way you like it. It was there in Maemo but unfortunately, Nokia decided to scrap it before this area is properly utilized. Without such freedom, who cares whether a phone comes with few stupid cables and a flashlight?

PS: If you really want to know what Android is, don't look at HTC Sense UI, start here http://developer.android.com/guide/basics/what-is-android.html

 

[orangewrath]

@ desiibond - What you said above is very apt, "The freedom to change the face OS the way you like it" (that could probably be made android's punch line )

I used a friends Samsung Galaxy i7500 just a few hours back today and OMG the possibilities are endless.

Also, this maybe the bane to Android, there are people who don't want all the options and customizations, hence they would stick on to the more familiar and so-called easy to use Symbian.

As I read in some TE members siggy - "Android is for people with brain" - Very much determines the spectra of people who the OS is right for (No offense to anyone)

 

[desiibond]

@ desiibond - What you said above is very apt, "The freedom to change the face OS the way you like it" (that could probably be made android's punch line )
I used a friends Samsung Galaxy i7500 just a few hours back today and OMG the possibilities are endless.
Also, this maybe the bane to Android, there are people who don't want all the options and customizations, hence they would stick on to the more familiar and so-called easy to use Symbian.

As I read in some TE members siggy - "Android is for people with brain" - Very much determines the spectra of people who the OS is right for (No offense to anyone)

even if you take people who just need an OS that works out of the box without the need for customization etc, they have choice to choose from

1) HTC phones with Sense UI that makes everything simple
2) Motorola phones with motoblur
3) samsung phones with touchqiz UI which is kind of toyish looking
4) Nexus one with vanilla android.

From very simple looking N1 to heavily changed and refreshingly beautiful Sense UI. Google, instead of making android for their own phones, went ahead and gave it out. And the result is that we have different flavours of UI (from same OS) and different types of handsets (from cute looking X10 Mini to monstrous Droid X) and each phone is unique in it's own way. Again, freedom to choose from

 

[orangewrath]

Freedom to choose, Freedom to change, Freedom to customize - This is probably something the Symbian users are not familiar with and there is the usual inertia of accepting it.

 

[desiibond]

Freedom to choose, Freedom to change, Freedom to customize - This is probably something the Symbian users are not familiar with and there is the usual inertia of accepting it.

wow. that is a nice punchline

 

[dhruvrock2000]

How so ???

There ARE custom ROMS for devices like the 5800 etc... infact the HX series of ROMS running on the i8910 which is a Symbian device are kickass...

I can most certainly customize my device , infact i can name at the very minimum 3 different OS skinning solutions. Add to that the fact that there are desktop widgets , what more customization do you need ???

Seriously this thread is becoming a Symbian vs Android debacle... you dont like it then dont. For some people , UI matters less and it is definitely true that the OS is very mature.

TV out is a feature which is i have been enjoying on my phone for the past 3 years and it has been useful to me innumerable times. From giving presentations from the phone to showing of pics from the phone. lol... just for the kick of it , i even converted my SYMBIAN device into a wireless security cam.

The applications on the platform are fragmented but are definitely there. Yes the kind of applications which are missing are dedicated applications which give a decent UI to a website and let you view it. When a device is perfectly capable of rendering a webpage with flash... it makes much lesser sense to make an application which is going to show you the same info with a fancy UI. Games i agree are missing from this platform.

 

[agantuk]

Freedom to choose, Freedom to change, Freedom to customize - This is probably something the Symbian users are not familiar with and there is the usual inertia of accepting it.

Ever heard of custom firmwares? A google search might help.

 

[desiibond]

Custom firmwares for symbian is a big joke. You guys better not go there coz it a whole different world for android ROMs.

And anyways Nokia itself is screwing the platform even before it's launch, so go ahead and enjoy the same fate that n900 got into.

What I am trying to say is that N8 is not what it looks like it is. there as much better phones outside. If you can't realize it, nothing can save that 25k that is going to be wasted.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

Ever heard of custom firmwares? A google search might help.

Buddy. That's some really innovative thinking. Installing hacked firmware is freedom to choose. Wow. Wham a concept sir new.

 

[agantuk]

^ How does modifying an Open Source OS become a 'hacked' firmware?

 

[yogi7272]

@desiibond - My dear friend dont tell me about those devices. I am not newbie to all this. Hope you get this. Have friends who test these devices before they hit markets and have exp N8 personally. Dont tell me about their processing power and all that. No other device offers such a great package as N8 , that if your not crazy about fancy UI and all that.. And if you trust that joker called eldar then .. He is clearly anti nokia these days. As someone rightly said looks like an N95 slept with his wife He is more hung ho about BADA than any other os though nowdays he is more into Android and will promote WP7 in few months , who knows.

And yes Galaxy S , Galaxt beam are devices that promise great potential but let them first prove them in real world. For a multimedia guy like me N8 is the only choice right now. Show me a one Android other than moto xt 720 that has xenon and 720p onboard. That moto too does not look very good from early reviews and its even clocked at 550mhz from org 720mhz in europe edition.

Looks like eldar has been quite successful in downplaying N8 in few people's minds. I am not saying that N8 is super success but let it get into markets and in people's hands and then after 2-3 months of hard use only, we can term it as potential success / failure.

 

[vpraveenis]

Well.. from a N8 thread, this has turned out into a platfrom argumen.... :no::no:

 

[soumalidon]

^^ ya people buy what appeals to them..no point arguing on whats better and whats not. Each platform has its good and bad so...

 

[yogi7272]

@soumalidon - The point is not about arguing , but telling the truth. If you dont like a platform well move onto something else that interests you. But then stop telling the wrong things to others who must be having very less knowledge about it. And since when Camera became the extra and not as core function. Everywhere you can locate people taking pictures with their cell cameras. Then why not to have the best camera your cell phone can have. What is wrong in that? If Nokia does 12mp cam right way by going for a very large sensor of size 1/1.83" with xenon flash, 720p video with two mics for better audio and still people think that as extra then ... And pls dont take eldar seriously, he changes his stance by week ..