Intel breaks silence on 13th and 14th-gen Raptor Lake desktop CPU instability issues

Darth Vader said:
Puget Systems POV:
www.pugetsystems.com

Puget Systems' Perspective on Intel CPU Instability Issues

You may have heard about instability issues with Intel Core 13th and 14th Gen desktop processors. The issue has been gaining more attention as time goes on. I am posting to share what we've experienced here at Puget Systems, and what we're doing about it.
www.pugetsystems.com www.pugetsystems.com

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At Puget Systems, we have always valued stability first and we actively made the choice to follow Intel specifications. Behind the scenes, this meant encouraging Intel to make those specifications public on Intel ARK and pushing motherboard ODMs to follow Intel guidance as their default settings. JayzTwoCents helped drive public awareness of the issue, and for a short time it appeared that things were back on track.

Since that time, our stance at Puget Systems has been to mistrust the default settings on any motherboard. Instead, we commit internally to test and apply BIOS settings — especially power settings — according to our own best practices, with an emphasis on following Intel and AMD guidelines. With Intel Core CPUs in particular, we pay close attention to voltage levels and time durations at which those levels are sustained. This has been especially challenging when those guidelines are difficult to find and when motherboard makers brand features with their own unique naming.
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Anyone tried RMAing their CPU? I'm considering doing it just for peace of mind. I haven't had any issues till now but it's scary to think I might in the future.
 
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adizz said:
Anyone tried RMAing their CPU? I'm considering doing it just for peace of mind. I haven't had any issues till now but it's scary to think I might in the future.
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A few people posted on Reddit about Intel declining RMAs in EU and the US. They were told to approach the original retailer because the CPU ‘isn’t genuine.’

Do post an update here if you do end up requesting an RMA. I’m curious about the situation here.
 
adizz said:
Anyone tried RMAing their CPU? I'm considering doing it just for peace of mind. I haven't had any issues till now but it's scary to think I might in the future.
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If it is functional, they will definitely reject it. Intel is not going to replace it just because you want them to. If they did, they would have issued a recall which they have declined to do.

The warranty extension is to cover the threat of a lawsuit. They are hoping that with the new voltage limits and boost restrictions, they will be able to get most processors to last out the warranty period without having to spend on replacements.
 
adizz said:
Anyone tried RMAing their CPU? I'm considering doing it just for peace of mind. I haven't had any issues till now but it's scary to think I might in the future.
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if no issue then don't.
We don't know if whole lot of 13/14th gen have issue or some part/batch, think yourself lucky that you didn't encounter any issue till, keep using the same way you are using it till today (and that's why you didn't encounter any issue), if there is any issue in future, they are giving 2 extra years warranty + Patch Update in this Aug 2024 month wait for it and do right decision if encounter issue in warranty period.
 
Emperor said:
if no issue then don't.
We don't know if whole lot of 13/14th gen have issue or some part/batch, think yourself lucky that you didn't encounter any issue till, keep using the same way you are using it till today (and that's why you didn't encounter any issue), if there is any issue in future, they are giving 2 extra years warranty + Patch Update in this Aug 2024 month wait for it and do right decision if encounter issue in warranty period.
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As has been recorded, most processors have some level of degradation that cannot be restored. Most home users don't use their PC 24x7 and thus see these issues as random reboots or crashes once in a while.

However, the processors will not boost to the same extent as they did in reviews at the time of purchase. Intel will still hit those frequencies for shorter duration and less frequently, so that users cannot actually sue them for performance degradation.

In good faith, Intel should have replaced all processors with measurable levels of degradation but they will not do so.
 
ibose said:
If in US then -

Intel Processor Instability Issues Class Action Lawsuit Investigation 2024 | JOIN TODAY

Intel Processor Instability Issues Class Action Lawsuit Investigation Re: Instability Reports on Intel Core 13th and 14th Generation Desktop Processors.
abingtonlaw.com abingtonlaw.com
I dream of a day where we are able to do the same here.
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nothings gonna happen for you, the suit will be settled out of court like most where the lawyers will grab most of the settlement and the people actually affected will be left fighting for scraps, though it does put a smile on my face at Intel being forced to cough up major money
 
The scale is actually unimaginable. If intel is forced to recall two generations worth of chips, it will destroy the firm no matter how cash rich it is now. I notice AMD being silent on this issue and not exploiting it. Because as we push the limits of Silicon I think amd realizes that may be in the same ballpark as intel later if not now. This reminds me of IBM, how they were king of the hill at one point then the downfall was staggering.
 
tantrikt said:
The scale is actually unimaginable. If intel is forced to recall two generations worth of chips, it will destroy the firm no matter how cash rich it is now. I notice AMD being silent on this issue and not exploiting it. Because as we push the limits of Silicon I think amd realizes that may be in the same ballpark as intel later if not now. This reminds me of IBM, how they were king of the hill at one point then the downfall was staggering.
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yep, what Intel instead should do is offer extended warranty on 13th & 14th gen CPUs as a good faith gesture and replace CPUs when some performance threshold is crossed, most people would probably be fine after the microcode update, but for those who are affected, this is the bare minimum
 
tantrikt said:
The scale is actually unimaginable. If intel is forced to recall two generations worth of chips, it will destroy the firm no matter how cash rich it is now. I notice AMD being silent on this issue and not exploiting it. Because as we push the limits of Silicon I think amd realizes that may be in the same ballpark as intel later if not now. This reminds me of IBM, how they were king of the hill at one point then the downfall was staggering.
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AMD need not say anything at all, same like Qualcomm and Apple. They will be reaping the benefits. AMD is not pushing the limits of CPUs yet.

Intel's main problem is that 10nm fabrication that they are stuck on for eternity. As they could not compete with AMD on efficiency, they went with quantity (more and more cores) and this pushed the limits of 10nm fabrication. The problems with Intel's foundries is two fold. They are really struggling to compete with TSMC in advancement of tech and the biggest headache is (just like Samsung), their chips have severe heat dissipation. Till they rely on their own fountries, they don't need another company to f**k them. Probably this is why Pat decided to outsource Arrow Lake and Lunar Lake manufacturing to TSMC.

In comparison, AMD was on 12nm for Ryzen 2xxx and moved to 7nm for 3xxx back in 2019. Moved to 5nm with 7xxx and now on 4nm with 9xxx series. Looks like they will start Zen 5 on 4nm and move to 3nm once TSMC has better output for 3nm.
 
Emperor said:
if no issue then don't.
We don't know if whole lot of 13/14th gen have issue or some part/batch, think yourself lucky that you didn't encounter any issue till, keep using the same way you are using it till today (and that's why you didn't encounter any issue), if there is any issue in future, they are giving 2 extra years warranty + Patch Update in this Aug 2024 month wait for it and do right decision if encounter issue in warranty period.
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Makes sense. It'd have been nice if Intel would tell us which chips are affected.
I've undervolted it quite a bit now. Will wait for the BIOS update some time later this month.
 
The very reason they are not disclosing defective batches is because they think it is so big that they cannot afford a recall or mass panic. If it was relatively very small batch, they would have recalled those by now and gain goodwill points.
 
desiibond said:
The very reason they are not disclosing defective batches is because they think it is so big that they cannot afford a recall or mass panic. If it was relatively very small batch, they would have recalled those by now and gain goodwill points.
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Yeah. The impact must be in huge numbers which is why they started layoffs and everything before shit really hit the fan.
 
Another day, another random ass attempt at fixing (avoiding) the issue for my system. Asus thankfully has an option called CPU IA VR limit, which is a hard cap on the voltage delivered by the voltage regulators, the regulators will never under any circumstances deliver a higher voltage (if this thing actually works).

Set it to 1450 (mV) and rebooted into windows, ran R23 loop for 10 mins (sc + mc each) and monitored the voltages using hwinfo. VID went to max 1.41x during SC tests, but vcore max (reported by the actual sensor) was 1.36x volts, compared to 1.38x volts that I had posted earlier, and the hwinfo perf limit sensors reported electrical limit for a few brief periods (I use 500ms polling time). It is evident that I was indeed crossing 1.45V earlier (despite vcore sensor reporting max 1.38x V, likely due to transients), but by how much, don't know.

Single core max freq was still 5.4Ghz, but only on 2 cores, and I *think* all the cores were able to hit 5.4 earlier. Either way, single core numbers were very similar, and multi core performance strangely went up by 600p, compared to my post here https://techenclave.com/threads/any...-the-best-place-to-get-it.219103/post-2530689 , running at lower PL (188w instead of 200w earlier), likely due to better thermals (but I don't have a recent *before* number).

All in all, not seeing a performance drop due to the recent changes I've made, and I will *NOT* be applying the bios update at release, until it has been thoroughly tested.
 
TEUser2K1 said:
Isn't Intel a very cash rich company, them cutting jobs may be just reconstruction.
They might have got new technologies for their cpus up in their sleeves for future.
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Intel Foundry Achieves Major Milestones
www.intel.com

Intel Foundry Achieves Major Milestones

Intel 18A powered on and healthy, on track for next-gen client and server chip production next year.
www.intel.com www.intel.com
The 18A node, featuring RibbonFET gate-all-around transistors and PowerVia backside power delivery, is on track for production in 2025.
"Intel is out ahead of everyone else in the industry with these innovations," Kevin O'Buckley, Intel's new head of Foundry Services stated, highlighting the node's potential to drive next-generation AI solutions. Clearwater Forest will be the industry's first mass-produced, high-performance chip combining RibbonFET, PowerVia, and Foveros Direct 3D packaging technology. It also utilizes Intel's 3-T base-die technology, showcasing the company's systems foundry approach. Intel expects its first external customer to tape out on 18A in the first half of 2025. EDA and IP partners are updating their tools to support customer designs on the new node. The success of 18A is crucial for Intel's ambitions to regain process leadership and grow its foundry business.
 
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