dafreaking
Herald
I mean that if you are a good FX Artist and by good i mean REALLY good, then you will probably get sent abroad.
What exactly is your plan here?
What exactly is your plan here?
3d Gaming/Vfx Artists Jobs in India do not pay well - How true is this?
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I'm not sure but since they have already worked in the industry I assume they will want to stay but work for a different company whether here in India or abroad. Or maybe just start out solo and freelance for western clients. <-- this is very viable for us because they give better pay and most of them are used to average professionals for budget. Many of them cannot afford the really talented ones.
This is specifically for graphics artists btw. It may be different for other departments.
Personally I think that working in the video games industry is overrated. It seems to me that people want to join it just because they like video games. There are many other industries or market which you may like better while making more money.
I have a relative in Delhi who works as a Senior Artist in an animation art studio which is in contract with multiple foreign companies. He can work from home whenever he likes (even before covid). I think people just haven't explored all areas and are stuck to the beliefs that only "video games industry" can employ them.
If you aren't confident as a solo artist you can definitely freelance for western clients who outsource work.
As for the jumping ship thing, it's indeed a major problem and it probably won't help since another employee will just take your place. I guess all one can do is adapt and change.
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TLDR: Want to understand the market, & not be hopefully stuck at a job with poor growth, pay wise. If that means applying for a 3d artist role to an ecomm like Amazon, rather than an Ubisoft, so be it.
Currently, the plan is to create a portfolio with a few pieces. Then show it around, & gauge what kind of potential people with experience in the industry think I have. Understand whether that can translate into good pay, eventually. Then take it from there.
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The plan was/is to work full-time as a 3d character/hard surface artist (so sculpt/model/retopo> unwrap> bake> texture>render for presentation). (Pipeline wise, Zbrush, 3ds max, PS, substance painter, Marvelous designer, Marmoset/Arnold). So short of rigging, animation. Not environments (so far). Not FX which I presume is working on simulation & compositing. Not motion design. (Kinda dabbled in archviz though).
So why this area, particularly? Because I felt it is closest to drawing & painting which I've always been keen on as a child. Also, it's closest to concept art, something that I'd like to get into, rather than executing someone else's ideas. I know this is commercial art, not fine art & so at the end of the day, even concept artists are bound by a certain brief/framework/art director's whims. But still, in the context of commercial art, this is what I felt was a more creative end of the spectrum.
That's why I've never looked at motion design or FX. I wouldn't even know what a good Fx artist's work looks like. I mean it's one of those things that no one will notice unless you do a bad job, if that makes sense? For instance, I wouldn't be able to distinguish between what a veteran like Allan McKay can do with simulations compared to what a junior would do. Compare that to character art, something that makes top row on Zbrushcentral, for instance, & the gap between amateur & pro is quite distinguishable.
Sorry about going off tangent there. But essentially, I'd always heard people say that if you are a really good artist, there's money to be made. If you are average, then don't even think about it. But that Reddit post makes me think that it's a lot to do with the industry as well. That poster mentions that e-comm pays much better than gaming. So is that a thing?
While I didn't think about this as a career only for the money, it's at least got to pay the bills & leave some aside for retirement, right? So I'm at a stage where I'm trying to understand if the industry does indeed make a difference. My portfolio would have to then be tailored towards that? For eg, ecomm seems to be more about the motion graphics? (Illustrator, AE kinda deal?). Though I did come across an Amazon job opening that is looking for 3d generalists. But I don't know what their end product looks like?
So it's a bit about wanting to understand the market, & not be hopefully stuck at a job with poor growth, pay wise. If that means applying to an Amazon, rather than an Ubisoft, so be it.
Yes, the freelance for western clients is something I've heard of. In fact, I presume that artists like the one I linked to are doing exactly that, especially if the pay in India is poor. Based on @Ramadhir Singh 's comments in this thread, even senior roles are being paid a pittance in India.
But before embarking on freelance, isn't it a good idea to understand if the industry in which you are freelancing will absorb you at a decent pay scale, should freelancing fail? Just take software dev, for eg. If your freelance gig doesn't make you a decent wage, you can always get back into working for someone else, & still make a decent pay. So just trying to understand that.
Freelancing not only needs good technical skills, but also good communication, contacts, managing budgets, managing client expectations, & so on. So it may not be for everyone?
I take your point about everyone wanting to get into gaming. & it's exactly those other industries that I'm trying to understand. I mean, what those industries are & what the potential pay is like, & what does a fresher's portfolio need to be to gain an interview.
I thought about gaming, because more & more apps are now real-time. So I honestly thought it sets you up well, if you know how to optimize things for real-time. (An example of optimization would be using what are known as 'hair cards' for a character's hair vs pre-rendered cinematics). For instance, arch viz has started to use unreal engine for virtual walkthroughs. There's the AR, VR & the Metaverse angle, as well. Gaming itself seems to be growing in India (though AAA level seems like a distant dream).
Also, in gaming, there are positions like a tech artist who does programming & acts as a bridge between artists & programmers. So one can also veer towards that if the art doesn't excite them as much. Also, you can potentially get into gamedev, software dev? (Partly why I asked what your friends' plans are).
So it all sounds good on paper. But the reality seems to be way different. That's what I'm trying to understand here.
Just came across a post on Reddit's r/mumbai where one poster went from 3lpa in B4U, iirc to 20lpa in Disney, Mumbai in about 6 years. I'm sure he's extremely talented & has made the right moves at the right times. (He's always gotten a 50% pay rise whenever he's jumped companies). But he's a motion designer.
So is it the industry difference at play here? Or can one hope to have a similar trajectory in other industries as well? I mean, I get it. Not everyone is going to be the big boss man. But one hopes to weed out the disparity, if any, between industries. In this very thread, @Ramadhir Singh mentioned how even a big boss role in Lakshya Digital was comparatively poor.
Sigh.. I dunno anymore,
. But really appreciate all of your replies. Much obliged. Apologies for the looong post. Really got out of hand!!
psyph3r
Herald
There's apparently a sweatshop in Bangalore with 800 employees that does 3D work for Amazon.de, I had met a team of people who were sub-contracted by them.
They were paid Rs.4000 per model for Amazon/Pepperfry work and $100 for game assets.
Also this team was constantly exploited by the person who brought them the work, they were not paid for 2 months at a time even when their salary was 15k per month.
smart people don't stay in that situation for long - get a job upskill & move out.
i have 2 example - where one designer was able to jump to 12L and an concept artist 9.5L withing one appraisal cycle. bother were hired as intern/fresher.
year of exp is just a number - which is irrelevant after a certain point - the skill, knowledge and smartness define ones salary in the industry.
damn .. this is seriously low. the asset furniture models as per amazon req will take minimum 5 days to model+texture.
dafreaking
Herald
Hah I wonder if they evn pay for those 800 licenses. Unless they ask them to use Blendaaaa
this is more of marketing gimmick - only 7-8 companies across the globe is working in real metaverse type of game. c******s got just one more buzz word to beg money from Chinese VCs.
Indian so-called game industry - by profitability - companies ( junglee, octro, 247, moonfrog, etc) are into realmoney and gambling industry and not actual "game development" industry.
they function like more like an ecomm companies with a disguise of "gaming".
companies who actually can work in games are struggling for money, survival & plagued by non-gaming guy in top management.
We can take example of eastern Europe - they were no-where like 6-7yrs back - now they are heart of the game industry.
hey don't underestimate the power of blender -- the tight integration with game engines are best.
Blender is the future of game art creation.
but i got your point & agree - i doubt they pay any licence fees - they only let people WFH, to use pirated copies of max/maya/zbrush etc ad they save $$$
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I just happened to mention Amazon because they had a job listing on Linkedin for a 3d generalist.. So I'm assuming it'd be working for Amazon directly? & the other reason I mentioned ecomm is because, as per that Reddit poster in the OP, ecomm industry pays much more than the gaming industry. That's what I'm trying to understand here, tbh. Is there a disparity only on the basis of industry? Is this Redditor an outlier?
There was another Redditor who started with 3lpa & ended up with 20lpa after 5-6 years. BUT he's a motion designer. So what I'm trying to understand is if there is such kind of growth in the gaming or vfx industry. A Motion Design portfolio is going to look a lot different than a Modeler/Sculptor portfolio. Imo, the former is easier, but if it pays better, then heck, why not? What it also means is that I need to tack on Illustrator, After Effects etc. & animation to what I've already learnt.
& currently, I'm hearing that folks who are into webdev (without any Science degree, & only with 6 months of some bootcamp) are starting off at 6lpa with good growth prospects.
So I'm trying to make the right moves, & not be a frog in a well. Just trying to gauge what the markets are like, & what your positioning should be. If 3d art overall is all doom & gloom, then maybe webdev/programming is the way to go?
So which industries were they a part of? By designer, do you mean a game designer? By concept artist, did you mean one working for games? Did they switch industries? What sort of job upskill do you mean?
Would it be possible to share their portfolios? That'd help put things in perspective. Of course, I can understand if you can't divulge such details.
But this is kinda what I meant when I said that the buzz I hear is that there's enough space for good artists. & one reason why I linked to the Artstation link of that gentleman, Tushank Jaiswal. But based on the feedback in this thread, it seems like even if you're that good, there's no hope in gaming/vfx?
Thanks for all the replies. Appreciate it a ton.
scott1391990
Forerunner
So sorry man. Running kinda busy lately. Sleeping for 4-6 hours and eating twice a day from past 2-3 weeks now.
Anyways, like you said, I am a little bit related but not entirely into gaming industry.
Sorry to others as well as I still don't have much time to read all the comments as still tight on schedule.
I have a Mechanical Engineering degree but never worked in that field. I work as 3D architectural visualizer and I know a few things about gaming industry. Not much, because I learned everything through tutorials and blogs and forums, so still a lot that goes over my head.
Even in my field, the pay for the freshers was very low. I guess you could say we were labors.
Back in 2016, I have worked for 7K/M, 8K/M, and then 12K/M in 2017. Even in 2019, I was only earning 35K/M. Now the condition has improved because the company that was giving 8k to freshers in 2016 is now giving 14-15k.
I got married in March 2019 and guys, after marriage I have only worked for 15 months in jobs. They have high expectations and yes they do pay minimum amount and I never liked this field but I am stuck now.
I have a friend who is in Dubai and has done BCA from London I guess. He has more than a decade of experience and he is into game development and he tells me that fresher developers can get anywhere around 3K-5K USD per month. He got an offer for 7K last year which he declined because he is like me. Doesn't like jobs.
Long story short, if you can get a job outside India or clients outside of India and you know you have the skills that they need, go for it.
I am working as a freelancer now and have a little company of my own. It's still in infancy but at least I don't have to deal with bosses anymore and I am earning triple/quadruple than those who used to earn same amount as me in 2016. Forgot one thing, these people learned from Arena and MAAC. I gave my time to learning at home and that's why it took me longer than them. Used to give like 8+ hours each day just to learn.
im not sure what creating this confusion, sorry if i was unclear in my previous posts. - I'm speaking of game/ or gambling disguised as gaming in India, company only.
Upskill- they work really hard on their personal portfolio - leveraged the experience of colleagues in the office.. for example the designer built an amazing Itch.io portfolio, he managed to pull making 8-10 simple games, solo. All were like 10-20 level but speaks quality.
While 90% of fresher lick boots, try to impress immediate managers -- these guys made themselves in better position to negotiated what they wanted.
Sorry for the late reply. Life got in the way a bit.
@scott1391990 Thanks for your post. Much appreciate the fact that you took time out from such a busy schedule.
Those who are not freelancing, seem to fall into 2 categories. Either you remain at a lower pay scale for years. Or you move up fairly early & quickly.
The pay abroad seems to be decent. & at least it's well categorized to a certain extent, if you google. (For India, there is no info to be found, really). The trouble is trying to gauge living costs & how it relates to the pay being offered. (Besides, that example of your friend seems to be again of a person who is into programming, & not art).
I saw your post where you've used Unreal Engine for an archviz (office) walkthrough. Is your focus on that particularly? Has it (realtime walkthroughs with unreal) gained enough in popularity to be a common demand from clients?
So again, coding seems to be the way to go.
Again, thanks to everyone for your replies. Much appreciated!
@scott1391990 Thanks for your post. Much appreciate the fact that you took time out from such a busy schedule.
Those starting salaries really do not inspire confidence, unfortunately. I mean, you either freelance or you're done for. That seems to be the takeaway.
Those who are not freelancing, seem to fall into 2 categories. Either you remain at a lower pay scale for years. Or you move up fairly early & quickly.
The pay abroad seems to be decent. & at least it's well categorized to a certain extent, if you google. (For India, there is no info to be found, really). The trouble is trying to gauge living costs & how it relates to the pay being offered. (Besides, that example of your friend seems to be again of a person who is into programming, & not art).
I saw your post where you've used Unreal Engine for an archviz (office) walkthrough. Is your focus on that particularly? Has it (realtime walkthroughs with unreal) gained enough in popularity to be a common demand from clients?
Hey thanks for the concrete example. I got confused because you also mentioned a concept artist who was able to get a good raise within a single appraisal cycle.
So again, coding seems to be the way to go.
Again, thanks to everyone for your replies. Much appreciated!
scott1391990
Forerunner
Yeah, the pay abroad is really good and well categorised.
And yes, the demand for interactive walkthroughs has been increasing from last 2-3 years and it's only going to rise from here. I have seen thousands of new comers who have been trying to learn it now.
Btw, where did you see the office walkthrough? I don't remember posting it on Techenclave or sending you in message.
I think you had shared some other work here that took me to your Youtube. That's how I came across it.
As for folks trying to learn real-time stuff, that's what I was thinking of when I was gearing my portfolio towards the gaming industry. Things are moving in the real-time direction, & I thought that being a part of the gaming industry at the start of ones career, would therefore give you an edge.
Your comment also highlights the fact that these industries are ever-evolving & so learning is a lifetime thing. Which is why I was shocked by the salary figures being thrown about. 3d/Vfx does involve a lot of up-skilling naturally, due to all sorts of changes. Besides this aspect of knowing your tools, you also need to make things gorgeous. So given that it's a mix of technical tools & artistic abilities (left brain-right brain), I'd thought the pay would be at least slightly above average.
Instead, it seems to be the opposite. I've been told that Frontend web dev freshers (so html, css, javascript, & react folks) are earning a minimum of 40-50k pm. & that's after only a 6 month bootcamp.
Also, just heard yesterday that an acquaintance who had to shut down his own hotel after covid, has joined some small setup with 5-6 employees where he is handling calls (& possibly some general managerial / clerical work). He's being paid 35k pm in Pune.
In that context, 3d/vfx figures seem like a cruel joke. & I would've understood if this was the case with only freshers. That after a couple of years, the pay does indeed go above average. But even that's does not seem to be the case, sadly.
scott1391990
Forerunner
Let me tell you this. Something that I have experienced myself.
Salary depends on your skills, your negotiating skills and also somewhat on luck.
I have an ex-colleage with 6-7 years of experience and he was earning 35 or maybe 40K in 2020. He then left that job in June 2020 and joined someplace for 45K. That company then appointed someone who used to help him. This new guy had 10 years experience and he got 55K. Upon knowing this, my friend talked to the seniors and got a hike to 53-54k. And after 3-4 months, he was laid off along with several other employees.
Then he joined for 45k just so he could pay the bills. After 6 months in this job, he was again laid off and now he is working on 40k.
I used to get 35K in 2020. Gave up on job in Jan 2021 and never worked again. Got an offer for 60K in July 2021 but I declined. Then seeing that my work didn't take off as expected, I joined in December 2021 at 70K. After 2 days of working, I left it as I needed more skill than I had. Now, tbh, this wasn't my fault as the boss there didn't tell me what was my work. He only said that he has seen my work and that's enough. Then In Feb, I started applying to many companies. And during this time, I got an offer from abroad. I received 3-4 replies from the other companies and I told them that I have another good offer now.
My other friends who have double or more than double my experience are earning 1/2 or 1/3 of me just because some don't want to upgrade themselves or are happy being slaves.
I know one person who has 2 years of gaming experience and he is earning 50k.
You can see that skills and negotiation skills are a great deal if you wanna go ahead.
From 8k/m in 2016 to 1l+/m is an achievement I guess.
Btw, I didn't tell this. For 8k, we used to go login at the office at 9:00 AM but and log off at 6:00 or 7:00 or even 8:00 and we couldn't be late than 15 minutes or elese it would count as half day. We only got off on Sundays. No separate off days were given.
Now, I am working for 5 hrs each day for 5 days a week for one company that has hired me and the remaining time, I work for others or keep learning new things.
Salary depends on your skills, your negotiating skills and also somewhat on luck.
I have an ex-colleage with 6-7 years of experience and he was earning 35 or maybe 40K in 2020. He then left that job in June 2020 and joined someplace for 45K. That company then appointed someone who used to help him. This new guy had 10 years experience and he got 55K. Upon knowing this, my friend talked to the seniors and got a hike to 53-54k. And after 3-4 months, he was laid off along with several other employees.
Then he joined for 45k just so he could pay the bills. After 6 months in this job, he was again laid off and now he is working on 40k.
I used to get 35K in 2020. Gave up on job in Jan 2021 and never worked again. Got an offer for 60K in July 2021 but I declined. Then seeing that my work didn't take off as expected, I joined in December 2021 at 70K. After 2 days of working, I left it as I needed more skill than I had. Now, tbh, this wasn't my fault as the boss there didn't tell me what was my work. He only said that he has seen my work and that's enough. Then In Feb, I started applying to many companies. And during this time, I got an offer from abroad. I received 3-4 replies from the other companies and I told them that I have another good offer now.
My other friends who have double or more than double my experience are earning 1/2 or 1/3 of me just because some don't want to upgrade themselves or are happy being slaves.
I know one person who has 2 years of gaming experience and he is earning 50k.
You can see that skills and negotiation skills are a great deal if you wanna go ahead.
From 8k/m in 2016 to 1l+/m is an achievement I guess.
Btw, I didn't tell this. For 8k, we used to go login at the office at 9:00 AM but and log off at 6:00 or 7:00 or even 8:00 and we couldn't be late than 15 minutes or elese it would count as half day. We only got off on Sundays. No separate off days were given.
Now, I am working for 5 hrs each day for 5 days a week for one company that has hired me and the remaining time, I work for others or keep learning new things.
@scott1391990 Much appreciate the detailed reply.
Yes, 8k to 1l (especially considering the reduction in work hours) is indeed an achievement. But you seem to be the exception. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that a large majority is still below average pay despite years of experience. Now, you & @Ramadhir Singh have alluded to the fact that the no. of years has nothing to do with the pay. But unfortunately, no one has come back with how much an artist of the level that I linked to (viz., Tushank Jaiswal) could expect. That could've helped with some sort of objectivity.
The Redditor in the OP, on the other hand, was of the opinion that the low pay is only in the gaming field. According to him, tech/ecomm companies seem to pay much better for the same skill set. So trying to figure out if it's better to simply approach those companies then, instead of the usual suspects. But the aesthetics there & the expectations seem to be geared more towards mo-graph/animation?
Yeah. No right answers, really. I think it's best for me to just complete a portfolio, get some feedback & then try & gauge how I could be placed, salary wise. If that doesn't work out as intended, then probably best to say bye-bye to passion & start typing 'Hello World!' , .
Yes, 8k to 1l (especially considering the reduction in work hours) is indeed an achievement. But you seem to be the exception. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that a large majority is still below average pay despite years of experience. Now, you & @Ramadhir Singh have alluded to the fact that the no. of years has nothing to do with the pay. But unfortunately, no one has come back with how much an artist of the level that I linked to (viz., Tushank Jaiswal) could expect. That could've helped with some sort of objectivity.
The Redditor in the OP, on the other hand, was of the opinion that the low pay is only in the gaming field. According to him, tech/ecomm companies seem to pay much better for the same skill set. So trying to figure out if it's better to simply approach those companies then, instead of the usual suspects. But the aesthetics there & the expectations seem to be geared more towards mo-graph/animation?
Yeah. No right answers, really. I think it's best for me to just complete a portfolio, get some feedback & then try & gauge how I could be placed, salary wise. If that doesn't work out as intended, then probably best to say bye-bye to passion & start typing 'Hello World!' ,
.
Mayur Hedau
New Member
I guess in general entertainment industries like video games, vfx are way below in hierarchy of World economy. Doctor, Engineers, lawyers are like top level. Just think about What will happen if game industry goes blackout, nothing gonna happens most probably but what if engineers stop working or doctors go on strike. You know what I am talking about ? Video games are just for amusement but Software engineers, doctors they add value to our society. Same film industry, all the actors take big chunk of money and all the other crew makes OK amount of money. You don't need to convert your passion into career always, having boring stable high paying job is better than doing what is love for less amount.
Hey, thanks for chiming in. I'm not sure there is any co-relation between how important something is to society, & how wages are being set though.
It's probably a combination of how much certain industries earn consistently, & the demand-supply situation of people skilled enough to meet existing demand. For instance, there is an example of a studio such as Rhythm & Hues going bankrupt, while it was winning an Oscar for Life of Pi. So just goes to show that even a successful studio couldn't seem to translate that success to making good money.
Vfx & Gaming studios probably don't earn enough on a consistent basis, maybe? So maybe as a result, they don't have enough of a budget?
There's also the factor of how niche it is. So as an employee, you probably can't make too many job hops too quickly. & that probably also becomes a limitation.
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Mayur Hedau
New Member
ok after reading the thread and watching this I feel kind of scared to enter the gaming industry. I chose to enter 3D over programming and the money, I want to make games like Last of us, and god of war. This is my passion for the field but it doesn't mean I want to be stuck with average pay either. My goal is to get a job abroad and use my programming skills to get into design + coding roles to land a good paycheck and not have to struggle as much with just modelling or texturing role.
I have already enrolled in a 3d school in Canada which I'm going through online and hoping to grow exponentially as an artist by the end of it.
let's see how things unfold in the coming years and if I will be satisfied with gaming or programming
scott1391990
Forerunner
Can you share your number over PM? Would like to talk to you about that college you enrolled in.