Anna Hazare's fast against corruption

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Who do you think its media spectacle only.

No, i don't think its only that. There are legitimate emotions invovled here that get ppl out there.

I was there passing over at Azad maidan here. You really had to see the environment here. And there were 10000s of people on road supporting this in Mumbai which was not even the primary location. I dont even live in major population area. I live in the extreme outskirts of Mumbai and still I got to see soo many people supporting this. IT was definitely not a minority. When there is majority or equal opposition to something we usually see protesters from both sides. Here there were no protests against this movement. Why? Because this was for the right reason in principle. When thats the case, you dont see any majority public opposition to it. And whatever little opposition is there is totally outnumbered.

right, it starts to make more sense when you look at it from an emotional angle. Ppl feeling abused by govt that is unresponsive or perceived that way. Unresponsive might be an understatement, maybe abused is more appropriate. The govt's dodgy, the cops are dodgy, who is there to protect & compain to in that case. nobody, there is no hope that things will ever improve. So this govt is not good and needs to be challenged within reason.

Its a number game. If it wasnt, there was no reason for government to back down. Government which has such strong majority in centre will only bend if they see no other choice and no logical reason to continue opposing it. Opposing something that is fundamentally right by taking the support of technicality, methodology or tradition never works. Khurshid was ripped apart on a talk show when he tried to justify the arrest saying this is not the first time this has been done. He had no answer when he was told to justify the governments opposition on the principles. You are quoting today's interview. See the one on 2nd or 3rd day of the agitation.

ok

And yes, if the demand is justified, peaceful protests like indefinite fasts are totally justified and within the constitution of our nation. Hell there was someone (I dont remember who or on which channel was that debate going on. It was on 5th or 6th day of protest where a young man doing socialism studies put forward his point of this agitation being justified under the duties of citizen defined in our constitution. I will try to dig up any link of that on youtube (it was posted on youtube) and the government representative had no answers for him.

Well, i picked up a study guide on our constitution as its something that more need to understand.

I still think the lok satta guy has a point, it should not require a hunger strike & mass protests to get your grievances addressed. That this happens and is considered the only way out points to a glaring problem with the system. Its incapabe of serving its ppl. So if AH asks for a citizens charter then this i think is a step in the right direction. A service guarantee that govt will do what it says and is time bound. This i can certainly see as a positive.

You dont have to believe in Media, you just have to look outside and whats happening outside. Its simply statistically impossible for majority including foreign media to support or portray a picture that is fundamentally incorrect in todays age.
Have you considered that it was simply this way because it was true or that it had merit?
And again, justify the presence of corruption to maintain double digit growth. And BTW, we are not maintaining double digit growth. We never have since 1966 with exception of temporary spikes that lasted for a quarter or so.

Yes, this position has changed in the last week.

Majority of arguments are procedural arguments. Those never hold when it comes to a social movement of the masses. That is why this has been successful so far.

I would say using a ratoinal frame of mind does not work with an emotional argument.

Think of a couple, the woman gets fed up with the ways of the unresponsive man and throws a fit.

State is the guy, the ppl are the woman.

Ppl are the state's boss, well that also applies in this case

 

[chiron]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

The reason there is that extra onus on public sector because these people are entrusted with the wealth and security of entire nation and not just some part of the society.

Again, my argument is directed at extending lokpal to lower level govt servants and I find it hard to believe that they affect wealth and security of a nation more than ceo's of large companies who aren't above pulling strings to change national policy. Of course, as you said it is more difficult to interfere in the workings of a private organization and such meddling might not even be the correct way to go about things. The reason I think it is a bad move to go after lower level govt servants at this point is because the policies and regulations that exist currently are such that a person can either be complicit in corruption or simply stop working. A good example would be the contract labor wages which were Rs 95 when people were getting Rs 200-250 for manual labor; so of course to pay a reasonable salary the executive makes double or triple payment so that he can retain decent workers. As per standard roadwork contracts there needs to be 10 density test samples to be taken every 500sq.m for each layer of asphalt which is ridiculous and in fact detrimental to the road as we are essentially creating poorly compacted pits in the middle of the road. There are countless such instances where the laws have to be bent to ensure smooth working.

i think for now keeping it to govt should be good enough. They occupy positions of power which effect the lives of many, they need to be held to a higher std than others.

I agree but isn't it best to start of with a smaller group of people and then use the tried and refined practices to force on the remaining? After all, isn't the bill just based on hypothesis rather than actual experience? If it turns out to have some big loophole which is revealed in practice then isn't it better to limit the scope at least in the begining. If so why the insistence on including all govt officials?

So anna's first demand is imo a bad idea, the second one cannot be enforced by the center and the third is just a gesture with its effectiveness directly linked to the first demand.

 

[mib2_007]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

What people don't realize (even MBA people don't) that whatever black money is stashed abroad comes back in our country only, the black money that middle class earns in form of bribes or any other way, they use it to buy cars.. homes.. land... all that means development. No body wants to earn money and just stash it in foreign banks for no use, it comes back through backdoor channels, share markets, FII's and govt. knows about this. But just saying we can be a superpower won't make us a superpower, we need money, development and all... and however people earn it, they use it here.

BUT this doesn't mean that taxes should be evaded and bribes shall be given, poor people be leeched of their hard earned income and absolute not deserving child to get admissions in schools by their rich fathers... CORRUPTION must absolutely stop.. no two thinking about it.

BUT it can't be stopped in a day or by making laws or by rallies. Just the absolute realization that we shall not give bribe is necessary. Stop giving, and takers will have nowhere to go. Rest bills and commissions like LokPal will be able to handle. This does not take account the corporate corruption that happens, Raja was jailed, but what about the company heads.. who did meeting to make that happen in there dark board rooms.

Corruption is essential part of development, it can't be stopped. It can only be checked, so that it does not start hampering the very growth of people and its nation. So that a nation does not descend into turmoil like that of many Asian countries and many many African countries.

And if any gentleman here can point me to one country where there is no corruption and nation is still thriving in this competitive economy, I will really stop posting my nuance here.

--- Updated Post - Automerged ---

I know many of you may feel I am contradiction here, but this very topic has dual nature like that of light[if people know what I am referring to]

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Again, my argument is directed at extending lokpal to lower level govt servants and I find it hard to believe that they affect wealth and security of a nation more than ceo's of large companies who aren't above pulling strings to change national policy.

There's two points you bring up here
- the amount of corruption is low with the bureaucrats its the higher ups where the big numbers happen
- the nexus between politicans & coroporate interests

Watched a good program on LS tv called one on one where the host paranjoy interviews his guest, in this case a retired prof from CSDS by the name of Dhirubhai Sheth. The good thing is there are no others there to talk so its quite concentrated and when these profs talk they tend to take a systemic view at the situation, the birds eye view, the big picture rather than lots of details etc.

On the first point, Anna's thrust is on grievance redressal. I think more than corruption thats the kind of change he seeks to bring about. The bureaucrats are what everybody deals with first so for a noticeable change to occur then they are the ones that need to be brought under the net. Now, Aruna's got lots of arguments against this becuase it will lead to too much work and not result in a effective org. I think there is space here for discussion to come up with alternatives that can deliver, there have to be ways of achieving this which hopefully the standing committee will look into. If this part is left out i think a major chunk of Annas protest goes unanswered and that entails even more agitiations in the future by possibly other groups as well. Those ppl on the street are expressing their frustrations at dealing with lower bureaucracy i think more than cwg or 2 g.

The second point gets expressed as the consipiracy between politics & poweful interests. The prof says not to look at it in this way but rather to see it as a weakening of instiitutions to serve very narrow interests. Every political party out there is some sort of dynasty and when they come to power they only seek to look after their own. We went from bureaucratic socialism to crony capitalism. So these parties when they get to power do not really care too much about the ppl, they just need to do the bare minimum because they cant really be brought to book anyway. This is where anna's movement comes in, to mke democracy more wider, deeper & stronger

This movement is just a natural progressin in our democratic evolution. Its now time to become more mature. Looking at it from a big picture makes it easier to understand than the tiny detailis that can get skewed in whatever way depending on the spin you want to create.

The reason I think it is a bad move to go after lower level govt servants at this point is because the policies and regulations that exist currently are such that a person can either be complicit in corruption or simply stop working.

But do the existing policies offer any viable grievance redressal. There might be all sorts of policies in place today but are they effective.

It could just be as simple as strenghtening those policies and all the bureaucracy is covered and not much needed to be done.

Now whether lokpal specifically needs to do this or whether its handled alternatively i think isn't important in the long run so long as the result is more accountability and better delivery.

Am just looking at anna points very generally as goals and leaving the implementation to those experienced enough to come up with ideas. i think in the end the hardest fight was to get some sort of commitment from govt to address these issues and not necessarily dictate how they should be setup. Getting govt to actually acknowledge the issues using whatever means within reason.

Now if govt does not want to blindsided by more movements like this in the future then they should create the mechanisms for these grievances to be addressed. It should not require these sorts of agitations. Things have gotten so intitutionalised that we've lost sight of the basics. That govts exist to serve and not the other way around.

 

[chiron]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Problem with grievance redressal is also due to lack of direction and clarity at the management level in most PSUs resulting in convoluted and ambiguous orders to the executive. Whether this is due to incompetence or corruption or helplessness probably varies depending on the organization. Any idea how a citizen's charter will help in fixing these problems better than the current version? This is more of a query than an argument

 

[Crazy_Eddy]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Why are you specifically against this man? Why are you posting this. What is your connection to all this. This does not affect you directly then why are you taking up a position against him or any anti-corruption campaign. Mainly why are you against one man when you dont have any relation with him directly.

Its easy to question someone, why? because you dont have to justify yourself when you question someone's intentions or agenda.

Err of course it does. He claims his movement is representative of the *people of India*. Last I checked, I come under that category. Your response clearly highlights what is wrong with this movement : its selectively representing only those in agreement, the rest are 'not connected'. If he really wants to claim he represents the people, let him do it the hard way.

I'm not questioning his agenda, I'm just asking what it is. Its naive to simply believe someone with such determination has nothing to gain from it.

He has already started his next round of demands for electoral reforms. He has a long term game plan, believe you me.

As far as this movement is concerned, it was wayyy larger than 0.000001%. Why do you think government caved in? Why do you think this got uniform support from almost all social sectors? Why did they not want this to go on? Why did they budge in the end? Why didnt they let him break his fast himself and take the risk of him falling seriously ill or die? Why did they wait so long if they knew they had to bend in the end? They have let many others die fasting before, so why not him?

The Govt caved in only because of how they would look in the media and for that reason they can't let him die fasting either. Image is everything as Anna Hazare knows well.

Why didn't they do so for the others? Probably because neither of those others were as good a showman as he is and do not/did not have the media frenzy he has. Are you telling their cause is any less worthy than his? What do you think they were fasting for, ensuring HP Touchpad orders came through?

the 1 thing that matters is that it has been proved once again that when something/someone is fundamentally correct its very difficult to kill or ignore.

Except that Anna and his minions haven't hit on the fundamental issue either. A govt tends to reflect what their people really are. Not just in India, but everywhere.

Did someone just suddenly hit the top post and say 'let me cheat and fill my coffers'? Nope, it all starts at the roots.

You yourself admitted somewhere earlier in the thread to having paid a bribe. Your action might seem minor, but these drops are what add up to the ocean of corruption. Supporting him and pinning the blame elsewhere is just being in denial. But will Anna Hazare ever be brave enough to tell his dear supporters the guilty really are themselves? This is what Raghu tried to highlight a couple of pages earlier.

What did he gain from RTI? Nothing personally. Or do you think even RTI shouldnt have happened and we were better off?

RTI wasn't his brainchild IINM, he just pushed for better terms.

Why wasn't he a household name after his RTI protest? Because there wasn't any such drama playing on for days during the RTI.

I have no problem with people carrying out what they see as change for the better, but please don't group them as public representatives or encourage their media hunger.

 

[blr_p]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

Problem with grievance redressal is also due to lack of direction and clarity at the management level in most PSUs resulting in convoluted and ambiguous orders to the executive. Whether this is due to incompetence or corruption or helplessness probably varies depending on the organization. Any idea how a citizen's charter will help in fixing these problems better than the current version? This is more of a query than an argument

Can the current system address the below public sectors mentioned by an MP, otherwise something needs to change

SHRIMATI HARSIMRAT KAUR BADAL (BHATINDA) : Today the billion plus people of our country are not affected by the top level corruption. What affects them in their daily lives is when they have to get their daily needs, like the ration card or a gas connection or a water connection or get admission in the school or electricity connection, they have to grease somebody’s palms, pay a bribe to get these things. That is what harasses them.

That is why it is necessary that when the result of every interaction with the police or bureaucracy or administration is directly dependent on the amount of bribes that person gives, we must make sure that this need of the billion plus people is addressed. Why should I just say politicians or bureaucrats? Today, be it an educationist or a lawyer or a doctor or business tycoons or NGOs or media houses – every segment at any level – there is corruption. There is corruption in each and every segment of our society. We cannot just pinpoint anyone because it is there across all sections of our society. Corruption is there even in Schemes like the Indira Awas Yojana for the homeless or old age pension for the poor or even in MGNREGA. Even in these Schemes, they do not get their rights without paying bribes. This is the extent of corruption in our country.

She wants more

If the Government is committed to rooting out corruption, it must first pinpoint all these grey areas and then take serious action in eradicating these interfaces which lead to corruption.

Some ideas

SHRIMATI HARSIMRAT KAUR BADAL (BHATINDA): I would like to give you an example. Why did the 2G scam or the CWG scam take place? It took place because the Ministers and the bureaucrats have certain discretionary powers. They use these discretionary powers to tweak the things in such a way that a favoured few could get favours from them. This led to momentous corruption. What needs to be done is that powers of these Ministers and bureaucrats must be taken away so that these powers are not there which give rise to corruption.

I would be happy to let you know that in my State of Punjab, we have removed and eliminated all these processes where Ministers and bureaucrats have the power to make these decisions. We have started a policy of e-tendering for all Government tenders above the limit of Rs. 5 lakh. Any one sitting anywhere in the world can bid for a scheme on-line without having to go to a Minister or a bureaucrat to get a favour. This has eliminated the unnecessary interface between the Executive Engineers, the bureaucrats and the Ministers. The bids have become so competitive that we have almost saved thirty per cent of the amount of the projects.

On 15th August of this year, the State Government of Punjab has implemented a Right to Service Act 2011 which makes the civil servants and the police accountable to the citizens of Punjab. There are 67 services of the Government, related to the Departments of Revenue, Housing, Police, Transport, etc. where the officer is liable to deliver the services in a limited time frame. Failing to do so, he has to not only pay a penalty or be penalised, but also will be suspended and lose his job. Thus making the officers, the bureaucracy, accountable to the aam aadmi and making the aam aadmi the king of his rights and giving him the rights as a citizen.

I will give you a small example, if you would allow me. These are the things which have been implemented, which can be used in the rest of the country. Today, if you need permission for using even a loud speaker, you have to go to the police; you have to make many trips, and probably bribe someone. But in Punjab, you can seek this permission on-line and get it via your computer. If you need a driving license or register a vehicle, you have to go DTOs or RTOs. But in Punjab, the place where you purchase the vehicle, now that dealer can give you the registration. All the rights of the DTOs and the RTOs have been taken away.

If anyone wants to get his land records, he has to take umpteen number of trips to either the Tehsildar or the Patwari. You know how corrupt they are. In Punjab we have computerised all land records so that any farmer, any land holder sitting in any part of the world, can go on-line and get his records.

SHRIMATI HARSIMRAT KAUR BADAL (BHATINDA): The point that I am trying to make is that we need to identify the areas that breed this corruption. Then, we need to remove the interfaces that create this corruption and after that we need to bring in a very strong Lokpal Bill which punishes the corrupt.

I welcome the Jan Lok Pal Bill and the three points of the Citizens Charter and the public grievances and including the lower level bureaucracy is already a part of our Right to Services Act which has already been implemented in Punjab. We already have the Lokayukt Act.

The only few suggestions which I would like to give for this Lokpal Bill is that let the salaries of these employees be such that they are not tempted to resort to corruption to meet their basic needs in these times of extreme inflation. I also suggest that if Lokpal or their officers are held guilty of any misconduct or dishonest investigations receive severe punishments because with the powers that they are wielding, they are like super policemen, super bureaucrat and super Prime Minister all rolled into one. If they have such powers, then their standards of conduct must also reflect these powers and misuse must be severely dealt with. Otherwise we are just going to end up creating yet another Supreme Executive Authority of India that has such sweeping powers that they can search, seize, prosecute, trespass into executive, judicial and legislative decisions, making them wield powers to prosecute judges, MPs, Ministers and Prime Minister and the entire bureaucracy.

Without the necessary checks and balances, they might end up in just another Frankenstein that they cannot control and then we will need a Maha Lokpal to control this Jan Lokpal. … (Interruptions) So, these checks and balances are very important. I also say that a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. This Jan Lok Pal Bill may not address the problem hundred per cent, but it is that single step for that long journey of eradicating this cancer. Let us take this step and do a great deed to start the end of this rampant corruption.

 

[Hacker]

Re: Anna Hazare arrested by Delhi police ahead of today's fast.

He has a long term game plan, believe you me.

Proof needed.

Image is everything as Anna Hazare knows well.

Why didn't they do so for the others? Probably because neither of those others were as good a showman as he is and do not/did not have the media frenzy he has.

You dont build that image in one day, it takes years. People from Maharashtra didnt even know about Hazare when he was fighting the MH goverment.

Nope, it all starts at the roots.

You yourself admitted somewhere earlier in the thread to having paid a bribe. Your action might seem minor, but these drops are what add up to the ocean of corruption. Supporting him and pinning the blame elsewhere is just being in denial. But will Anna Hazare ever be brave enough to tell his dear supporters the guilty really are themselves? This is what Raghu tried to highlight a couple of pages earlier.

Exactly, giving and taking bribes is in our blood but will you pay a bribe knowing that you will be caught. Will you accept a bribe knowing that you will get caught. You wont.

RTI wasn't his brainchild IINM, he just pushed for better terms.

Why wasn't he a household name after his RTI protest? Because there wasn't any such drama playing on for days during the RTI.

There was no drama because people were not intrested.

MH has RTI because the law was passed due to pressure from Hazare. No Hazare no law or a very weak law.

Guys stop being such negative nancies. What did you do when our netas where looting gazillion rupees, you did nothing. So stop cribbing when people are actually doing something. If you think you can do a better job than Anna, why don't you go form your own protest.

 

[Shripad]

@eddy : yes, I paid the bribe because I was not given any option. These guys sitting there are thick headed enough to "demand" bribe knowing there is nothing that you can do to punish them. There are usually 4-5 people they who would collaborate with each other and get away scot-free.

You dont pay, you will end up spending 3-6 months chasing for the license / VAT number. So you basically cannot run your business until then or run risk of getting caught in shop without license. Hell even a police constable is mixed with these guys ensuring no-one dares to complain to police. Its one department that can shut down your entire business if you cross them at the moment with no strong law in our favour or a place to lodge complaint. I didnt offer bribe voluntarily. It was demanded. This is precisely why we need a strong law that covers even these people.

I have never paid a bribe before that moment in my life, neither have I done since then. Not even to a traffic policeman. (Hell, not even to the doorkeeper of the restaurants. I wait for my turn honestly)

And whats wrong in Media playing a role in all this. It has paid a role in almost all wars, independence struggles, civil wars, gang wars, frauds, celebrations, riots that have happened in this century. So there is nothing wrong in media playing a positive role in this matter as well. It boils down to the same thing. Media takes the things to masses, and thats why government caved in. In the end its the image of government in people's mind that made it all happen.

It was not the cause of others that was the problem. Its methodology and their personal background, experience and skills to pull off effective movement that was the problem. And yes, image is everything. And thats what paid off. When your image is clean, what are the others going to do?

You talk about this movement only selectively representing those in agreement, well there are millions of those. Why dont you get in touch with a person who has capability to effectively oppose this with the support of masses and start the movement opposing this? No one is stopping anyone from doing that. Find a man of calibre of achieving that and go ahead with the Anti anti-corruption movement.

If there were enough people who opposed this, we would have seen something. Its always a number game. Even current UPA government is in power with less than 50% of the total votes. SO your logic of "People of India" should mean everyone including you is equally flawed.

 

[chiron]

@eddy : yes, I paid the bribe because I was not given any option. These guys sitting there are thick headed enough to "demand" bribe knowing there is nothing that you can do to punish them. There are usually 4-5 people they who would collaborate with each other and get away scot-free.

You dont pay, you will end up spending 3-6 months chasing for the license / VAT number. So you basically cannot run your business until then or run risk of getting caught in shop without license. Hell even a police constable is mixed with these guys ensuring no-one dares to complain to police. Its one department that can shut down your entire business if you cross them at the moment with no strong law in our favour or a place to lodge complaint. I didnt offer bribe voluntarily. It was demanded. This is precisely why we need a strong law that covers even these people.

Such a strong law will have holes poked in by the same guys coz they really are invested in their nexus and will be wary of getting caught. And even when they get caught they will wriggle out of it just as before. The sincere govt servant on the other hand will get prosecuted extra easily (probably because he won't be as careful as to cover all his bases on paper considering the plethora of regulations) with the same strong law when it gets vindictively used coz he denied some improper request or didn't show enough respect and pissed off someone etc. That has always been the case with corruption related prosecutions I've seen in my 2.5 years of experience and heard through anecdotes.

That's the negative outlook but one that probably matches the current situation more closely. Your positive outlook is of believing that this system will actually be helpful and not be misused because of its clauses and "transparency". I guess we can wait and see what happens in time.

 

[fractal]

The whole process needs to be reviewed and made efficient!

Business registrations should be automatically approved within some period like 2 weeks unless there is an objection raised and documented. If a public servant has a record of raising frivolous objections over a period of time then he should be penalized for incompetence.

Why does a government servant need to approve a business license unless the business in dealing in something that has security implications or is sensitive in some way. This may hold true for some businesses but most businesses should have a fast track process by default.

Why cannot most business registrations be done simply on the net - the technology is there.

 

[blr_p]

Proof needed.

It was in my daily today, he wants to clean out the black money from electoral politics, he wants a right to recall and right to reject MPs. There should be an option to reject all candidates. If the majority of ppl say that no one is fit to be their representative, the election should be cancelled. 49-O as i understand it is broken.

"how much money they (candidates) will distribute ? once the candidate spends Rs.10 crore for on eelction and if the election is cancelled, then right sense will dawn upon them."

He wants to help the farmers out as well , he wants to reform energy policy as well as education. Seems like a long ambitious list

In the end its the image of government in people's mind that made it all happen.

This is pretty much it in a nutshell and its taken me time to come around to this pov.

This movement is a symptom of a stagnant democracy, one that has become opaque, arrogant and out of touch with the ppl. If it wasnt AH it would be have been somebody else, the sentiment was already there in the ppl, it just needed an outlet to channel it. So we are at a stage where the democracy we boast about is in need of rejuvenation.

I think its only natural for him to turn his attention to electoral reform because the ppl getting elected are subsidised by narrow interests and they do not really represent the people. They are accountable to their donors more than the common man.

When broadway talks about tweaking the system, i dont think 'tweak' is the right word, repair might be which is better than 'fix'.

So this movement seen from that light is actually quite positive its attempting to make the system function as it was designed rather than subverting it.

 

[Emperor]

.. he has LONG [strike]GAME[/strike] REFORM plan (he is 75yrs old) but for WHOM for himself, his Son, Daughter, Wife, family members or any other relatives?

Just curious to know why most of- ANTI- India Against Corruption Voice- from SOUTH?

 

[blr_p]

Thats the next point, for this movement to be successful & endure it needs to have an open leadership. It needs input from many sectors of society. AH is just a figure head, its the team directly below him that will determine whether his vision is realised or not.

Just curious to know why most of- ANTI- India Against Corruption Voice- from SOUTH?

In my case it was not understanding what the movement was about. There were so many conflicting actions earlier that i got confused with them and lost sight of the big picture.

The big picture is that our system is not working optimally.

 

[agantuk]

Just curious to know why most of- ANTI- India Against Corruption Voice- from SOUTH?

South OF what? China?

 

[blr_p]

Such a strong law will have holes poked in by the same guys coz they really are invested in their nexus and will be wary of getting caught. And even when they get caught they will wriggle out of it just as before. The sincere govt servant on the other hand will get prosecuted extra easily (probably because he won't be as careful as to cover all his bases on paper considering the plethora of regulations) with the same strong law when it gets vindictively used coz he denied some improper request or didn't show enough respect and pissed off someone etc. That has always been the case with corruption related prosecutions I've seen in my 2.5 years of experience and heard through anecdotes.

Why should the honest guy get caught if he hasn't accepted any bribe or broken any law ?

I'm sure the system will be abused to settle poltical scores by political factions. But here its upto the system to prove itself to be able to withstand those attacks otherwise it would actually be worse than what exists currently. I get the impression that if govt is gets cleaned up then it will have a knock over effect on society. It will reduce the scope for bribes. You don' have to bribe anyone to get a telephone connection nowadays.

Also expect that the nexus thing will come into play but here its upto the citizens to report so thats a self-policing of sorts. The ideal outcome would be to empower citizens to act against these power plays. Because upto now its the parties that dictate what gets done or not.

 

[chiron]

^^

A good example would be the contract labor wages which were Rs 95 when people were getting Rs 200-250 for manual labor; so of course to pay a reasonable salary the executive makes double or triple payment so that he can retain decent workers.

There are many such instances in current govt work where the executive has to bend the rules so that the work gets done and where he isn't getting any personal benefit. Of course, this could obviously be seen as a serious scam perpetuated by the officer from a different perspective.

 

[blr_p]

Sure, but how strong will the charges be in that case ?

 

[chiron]

Regardless of charges, I think its easier to build a case against such an instance rather than one where someone is being accused of demanding bribes. Plus I think the charges could be fairly serious when the amount can go in the thousands and anyone could say that the officer was simply pocketing the money by fabricating papers I guess there is no point in debating specifics, we'll just have to wait and see what the govt comes up with now.

South OF what? China?

lmao

 

[avi]

South OF what? China?

South of Southpark :bleh: