Health & Fitness Corona is in full swing and its not Joke !

@NotMyRealName

> Again mate, what doctors and scientists mean by 'airborne' is far different from what the media or common man imagines it means. And parameters like wind speed, time and distance do matter a lot. You did mention science right? But whether a common man needs to calculate all those scientific parameters or just stay safe by masking, sanitizing and maintaining distancing, it pretty obvious though right?

If wind speed, time and distance do matter a lot, it will be difficult to give distance like ~10mtrs, etc. which will now look erratic at the best. Why they didn't do it earlier ?

As a common man, if one read the statements listed in above links from those so called Drs., scientists, WHO, etc. whom once had deep trust, I'll fully understand they were all wrong in the beginning, they didn't take due diligence while advising people.
I should now have difficulty in trusting them fully and in to future.
I was really careful (didn't venture out of flat's door ~9 months), spent good money and resources to get Pfizer vaccine (unfortunately due to careless idiots around in my working environment got infected later with Covid19 after 1st dose, slogged it out for days without knowing it, then took 2nd dose too on 5th day of being -ve).
That is how I could deal with it.

Everybody respects modern medicine and science. But, in this case, at least so called advisers (not sure about researchers who did vaccine researchers about seeing allegations about Bill Gates involvement in vaccination trial of girls in India, yeah conspiracies you know ?) with extreme scientific temper didn't give that confidence to public. Sorry to say that.
 
@Prole73 ,
Thanks for the exhaustive list.
But the drugs you mentioned are pretty old now.
Yes, glad you brought up Apomorphine It's a fantastic drug for Levodopa+ Carbidopa off periods. But not really available in India. It's the only injectable anti Parkinson drug.
In the first and the only national survey till date on drug use in India, the prevalence of opioid use was found to be 0.7% of the general population among whom, around 22.3% were found to be dependent on opioids.India has twice the global average prevalence of illicit opiate consumption.It is estimated that currently, India has about 4 million people who use opioids and around 1 million people who are opioid dependent ( These are data from 2017-2018, and may be slightly wrong with the percentages as I don't work in India)
As a former H addict ( 16 years clean now) can assure you, it is a HUGE problem. Since India have many other problems and public health is non existent, it doesn't come up in mainstream media. But I'm going off topic here.. I've nothing against Ayurveda, tried to read about it, but the "textbooks" are not really proper books. Someone here recommend some books, in fact I bought Dr.Vasant Lad's book.
If you're a student of science, it's very difficult to understand the logic behind stuff ( too many assumptions...that's what I like about modern medicine..it's also partially broken science, but you can't assume practically nothing in it... everything has a MOA, some are faulty but most are still solid)
Edit: wrong pdf uploaded. Will upload if I find it..
 
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@quaratineinthesejeans

> But the drugs you mentioned are pretty old now.

Yeah, modern medicine is also getting quite old now. That does not invalidate their origins.

That list is not even 'exhaustive'.

> Yes, glad you brought up Apomorphine It's a fantastic drug for Levodopa+ Carbidopa off periods. But not really available in India. It's the only injectable anti Parkinson drug.

India with proper scientific research can do good in this field. For that we need to have good leaders who support research with real scientific temper, the current style of exploitative quackery will not help, but harm. World is losing huge on that and patients missing the treatments.

> I've nothing against Ayurveda, tried to read about it, but the "textbooks" are not really proper books. Someone here recommend some books, in fact I bought Dr.Vasant Lad's book.
> If you're a student of science, it's very difficult to understand the logic behind stuff

Thanks for being this open to learn about subjects and interests.

Can only say this, which may look anti-Ayurveda :)
If you try to learn Ayurveda scriptures etc. which were written centuries back with mindset of a current day researcher, those may not have much relation in current world.
Read those as if you are reading mythology, semi-correct history or old testament, for eg.
Rather research about herbs which are used in specific treatments, methods used...
for eg., Phyllanthus niruri is commonly used to treat Liver conditions, Kidney stones, etc. for centuries. Research which specific compound helps in specific conditions, once fully scientifically proved use those medicines. This herb it is already being researched for decades by at least one EU company, though used by Indians for centuries. It may not be subject of study for a Dr. though, but that is how it should be seen now.

Regarding Opium addiction, it didn't happen because Ayurveda subscribed it and people got hooked on to it. Rather in USA /west you will find contrary cases of people hooked to pain killers, etc. which were used during short term treatments. Don't think India have huge issue as USA or even EU on that side.
Opium was here for centuries and abusers anyway will exploit it irrelevent of Ayurveda.
 
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No, am not in India.
Am in the region where Pfizer was not distributed, had to spent ~Rs.18k to get 'the documents correct' and to reach the hospital where it is administered. Vaccine is free, getting there was not. That is all I can say :)
 
Dubai? Must be middle East. Don't worry mate, we understand the issues of expats there. Loy ( Machedo) is a good friend.
BTW Odisssa's poppy culture is legal and very strictly controlled.
AFAIK Punjab is the epicenter of addiction. Yes, it's very true, Ayurveda has nothing to do with addiction, but modern medicine is. But intelligent addicts can find opiates from Ayurvedic stores ( I'm not fully sure of it, someone from India in a NA meeting told something like this...he was taking some sort of water used to clean opium extract or something like that..but I'm not sure)
But addiction is a big issue in India ( the problem in US is somewhat different from EU) Google Kripa foundation.
Not many know, Bangladesh is ravaged by addiction, the situation is similar in India.
By newer medicine I meant monoclonal antibodies..that's where modern medicine is heading.
 
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In my case it is not about that 'Dubai expat stereotype'.
As far as that part is concerned, am going on fine and easy till date.
There were other logistical concerns, more apt to call out moronic Indians being full of themselves as usual with everywhere in the world.

@quaratineinthesejeans
> BTW Odisssa's poppy culture is legal and very strictly controlled.

I found Odisha is causing tons of issues, actually ninja-edited that sentence from original post after my google-fu :)
So much that, ISRO is called out for help with satellite mapping and tracing such vast 'herbal' fields, they are actually exporters.
Been to Punjab years back, have seen the troubles there. Lot of it were not even 'herbal' kind, but compounds imported from Pak kind of serious troubles.
 
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Prole73 said:
There are tons of them and I know some people who supply herbs to EU's one of the most famous pharma MNC from South India.
The kinds once they get formula of compound isolated from the herb and patented the same, will file a court case or suite against traditional medicine providers who provided it for nominal cost to common man for centuries.
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This is the commercial aspect of modern medicine. India should get out of treaties which require it to enforce such unethical patents
Prole73 said:
India with proper scientific research can do good in this field. For that we need to have good leaders who support research with real scientific temper, the current style of exploitative quackery will not help, but harm. World is losing huge on that and patients missing the treatments.
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It is unfortunate that there is a conflict now between Ayurveda and Allopathy. What is required is a wholistic approach which integrates all knowledge, both traditional and modern.
 
fractal said:
It is unfortunate that there is a conflict now between Ayurveda and Allopathy.
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Are you referring to Ramdev vs IMA conflict? Some idiots in one of the IMA WhatsApp group were suggesting to back out and withdraw the FIRs lodged against him ( their logic: we are too busy to engage in a legal battle now)
I know few of these guys, these are the people doing online clinics for a fee ( a prescription of ivermectin, paracetamol, zincovit, some calcium, D3, fabiflu, steroids, any freaking antibiotic ranging from Amoxicillin to faropenem for 2000 INR) and simply refusing any responsibility if or when patient needs admission.
On the other hand we have Ramdev...
 
quaratineinthesejeans said:
Are you referring to Ramdev vs IMA conflict?
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This is only the latest controversy. But there has been a lot of negative propaganda against traditional medicines for a long time before in India

This is unfortunate as both have their place. Example - Commodities lead to worse outcomes in Covid. Wholistic approach based on diet, exercise and meditation can (over a period of time) reduce the severity of these comorbid conditions (BP, suger, cholesterol) which is a good thing and in no way opposed to modern pharma, diagnostics, surgery etc.

The other thing is Ayurveda need not be constrained to be some kind of static science but can continue to improve. For this we need a scientific and long term approach
 
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Agreed, but modern medicine doesn't have any issues with exercise and meditation.
But dietetics is very complex and mostly broken science.
Some common misconception ( mostly in modern medicine)
1.Fat in diet is the main culprit behind obesity.
2. Cholesterol is bad
3. The biggest lie: vegetarian diet is better than meat based diet, a carnivorous diet is very harmful.
Holistic approach sounds great, but for that one branch needs understanding of the other. Try learning Ayurveda...it's not possible for a modern medicine person. Ayurveda is based upon faith.
 
quaratineinthesejeans said:
modern medicine doesn't have any issues with exercise and meditation
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This is true, but we need to look at what patients are actually advised statistically. Sometimes doctors in a for profit system of medicine favor pills over other methods. Here is an example from the US (well developed economy but with a relatively worse health outcomes among other industrialized countries)
https://slate.com/technology/2018/0...depressants-for-many-cases-of-depression.html
 
quaratineinthesejeans said:
Are you referring to Ramdev vs IMA conflict? Some idiots in one of the IMA WhatsApp group were suggesting to back out and withdraw the FIRs lodged against him ( their logic: we are too busy to engage in a legal battle now)
I know few of these guys, these are the people doing online clinics for a fee ( a prescription of ivermectin, paracetamol, zincovit, some calcium, D3, fabiflu, steroids, any freaking antibiotic ranging from Amoxicillin to faropenem for 2000 INR) and simply refusing any responsibility if or when patient needs admission.
On the other hand we have Ramdev...
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I took doxycycline, ivermectin, fabiflu ( given on 7th day of symptom), steroids, zincovit, vitc. I had 103-104 fever for 11 days. On day 11 I was told to get hospitalized. My doc was HOD of a well known private hospital. These meds are given to everyone, I saw Aiims covid treatment doc which recommended all these meds.
 
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Arjun said:

I took doxycycline, ivermectin, fabiflu ( given on 7th day of symptom), steroids, zincovit, vitc. I had 103-104 fever for 11 days. On day 11 I was told to get hospitalized. My doc was HOD of a well known private hospital. These meds are given to everyone, I saw Aiims covid treatment doc which recommended all these meds.
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Are you stable now? Have you recovered from it? I hope from the bottom of my heart since I lost an aunt to this stupid disease.

Where as my whole extended family situated in Hyderabad got it including my 2 little nieces aged 2 and 4 and all recovered from it since they got it from my brother in law last month. I was so much worried about their health since their father and grand father and others are good people and God loving people and kind.

And they said that doctor told them to wait for 6 weeks and go for vaccination which they have already registered in COWIN website as my elder sister confirmed.
 
bssunilreddy said:
Are you stable now? Have you recovered from it? I hope from the bottom of my heart since I lost an aunt to this stupid disease.

Where as my whole extended family situated in Hyderabad got it including my 2 little nieces aged 2 and 4 and all recovered from it since they got it from my brother in law last month. I was so much worried about their health since their father and grand father and others are good people and God loving people and kind.

And they said that doctor told them to wait for 6 weeks and go for vaccination which they have already registered in COWIN website as my elder sister confirmed.
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Yes , I have recovered.
 
So much misinformation in this threat. Both blind faith and hatred is bad. But Hatred is worse and is blind to the complexity of the challenge where multiple entities are involved (manufacturers, raw material suppliers, state govts). All systems complement each other, which means that even if one fails to perform the assigned duties, the whole system suffers. Let me state a few things.
The disease is too new.
Knowledge of the disease is still evolving, including duration of immunity post infection. Even if we know for sure, initial infection load will be a factor. People in Covid ward have been infected multiple times but how many people you know who have been infected again with severe or moderate Covid-19?

The Government depends on "experts" to take the right decisions. Even experts in the field are NOT experts on Covid-19, because much of the useful knowledge doesn't exist as of now.
# Ayurveda Vs Allopathy
This is a nuanced discussion. Reverse pharmacology workflows have to be conducted on ayurvedic products to know "IF" they work and "HOW" they work. Being a traditional medicine system, this is not strictly required. However, not knowing mechanistic action prevents its usage in current situation, where most drugs are being prescribed on the basis of mechanism of action and not proper clinical trials, which are done later. Example, HCQ was being prescribed because it should have worked. But later studies didn't support strongly. I won't get into details of the studies. In case of Ayurveda, only herbs where mechanism of action is know can be prescribed without trials. But once trials are successful, complete elucidation of mechanism of action is not really needed. Haldi is known to be anti-inflammatory, so it will probably help with the cytokine storm phase, but to know how much, clinical trials are required. Just look at the Chinese traditional medicine scene. They have been doing excellent work for decades. Lots of molecules discovered from the traditional medicine will probably end up in allopathic medicine, and that is a desirable outcome.

# Vaccines
Vaccines are supposed to mitigate the risk of getting Covid-19 or to prevent serious Covid-19 and death. Vaccines can't eliminate the risk. In this way, they are like masks. Just because people are getting infected even with masks or vaccines, doesn't mean they are useless. Adverse events following vaccination (AEFI) occurs but you have to weigh the risk against the risk of Covid-19.
All vaccines are better than no vaccines but some are working better than others. Clinical trials have been done in and expediated manner by running parallel phases. The results of Phase 3 trials are the most important. Anything above 75% efficacy is good.
Maintaining -80C cold chain is too difficult in India.
Manufacturing Covaxin is more difficult than covishield, because more batches are likely to fail in case of covaxin.
For months after vaccinces were introduced in India, most people who were entitled didn't take the vaccine because of the confusing information. And now suddenly everyone wants vaccine, including 60+ and 45+ people who could have got them without any problem earlier. Even if anyone in the world could produce at the rate which is required, do we have the logistics and personnels to administer the vaccines? Is that even theoretically possible? We also need the medical system for other diseases and also covid-19 and also to be ready to attend to those with AEFI.

# Politics
Both state government and central government have assigned duties. It is different in case of pandemics, but doesn't mean state governments don't have to do anything.
No government action will work if people don't wear masks. Everyone criticising either state or central governments should look at the behaviour of people in Jan-march time frame. Are masks such a big inconvenience? Half the people have them on their chins.
The quantumn of surge in the cases would have overwhelmed any system in the world and our healthcare system was overwhelmed too.
Black marketeers are the worst kind of human. Those who hoarded oxygen at this time are the worst kind of criminals.
 
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