Health & Fitness COVID Vaccine Experience and your preference.

[Neotheone]

Conventional medicines at least have the possibility of being allowed/disallowed based on credible scientific research unlike non-conventional medicines where everything is subjective involving multiple factors not to mention possibility of legal consequences/compensation in case of conventional medicines. Non-conventional medicines are purely on your own risk & no possibility of any legal action/compensation.

While that is true, modern science has been completely ignoring heuristics as a way human beings learn. There can be some wisdom in a lot of traditional medicines but there are not enough incentives for the establishment to actually do trials and marketing of solutions that cannot be patented - so these won't likely get recognized/tested enough by modern standards to weed out less effective/harmful ones. It is a hard problem to solve, and honestly, I do not see a solution in sight either way.

His heart is in the right place, but it seems he too cannot come around to the idea that heuristics can lead to some inter-generational learnings in different cultures. This explains why he would dismiss the entire Ayurvedic medicine idea as fraud instead of encouraging that Ayurveda graduates to used modern methods of testing and drug trials.

 

[guest_999]

Good video especially the starting part of "allopathy". As for ayurveda being scam I would say it is just a case of being lucky like how rapper 50 cent was shot 9 times but still survived while people often die with a single bullet wound/knife wound. Most of the ayurveda nowadays is just that, a case of being lucky.

@Neotheone that heuristics you are talking about is mostly the above. Scientists still don't know much about human brain functioning & though human genome is 100% mapped humanity still is far away from understanding the gene code. There are ppl who survive multiple gun shot wounds & even develop immunity against aids (elite suppressors) so it is not that difficult to think that there are ppl who can recover from serious ailments by just drinking 99.99% water (aka homeopathy). Unless there is a verified scientific system to prove that it was the medicine which was responsible for recovery everything else is irrelevant incl successful recovery & that is what makes a medicine system "scientific medicine system" which currently ayurveda/homeopathy/unani/acupuncture etc are not.

 

[thomasjude47]

While that is true, modern science has been completely ignoring heuristics as

While that is true, modern science has been completely ignoring heuristics as a way human beings learn. There can be some wisdom in a lot of traditional medicines but there are not enough incentives for the establishment to actually do trials and marketing of solutions that cannot be patented - so these won't likely get recognized/tested enough by modern standards to weed out less effective/harmful ones. It is a hard problem to solve, and honestly, I do not see a solution in sight either way.


His heart is in the right place, but it seems he too cannot come around to the idea that heuristics can lead to some inter-generational learnings in different cultures. This explains why he would dismiss the entire Ayurvedic medicine idea as fraud instead of encouraging that Ayurveda graduates to used modern methods of testing and drug trials.

That's because the basics are wrong. You cannot build up on something which has its basics wrong. Things written in ayurvedic texts, homeopathy etc are utterly rubbish. You can read an ayurvedic/homeopathic scripture and verify that it's all wrong by just referring a 8th standard biology textbook.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@thomasjude47
When you are saying basics are wrong, when did basics for the so called (simple?) medicine evolve into 'modern medicine' from allopathy (now the usage is discuraged by these toutogists, but it was a common usage for English medicine) ? We know it evolved over time without much nefarious influence from such toutologits.
Can traditional medicine / Ayurveda which existed from time immemorial be ever given such privilege ? Will Drs. like this even mildly acknowledge their influence in modern medicine ? If Ayurveda / traditional medicine evolve with modern research, will you have to rename it to modern medicine ?

At a time when the mega-corporations vending modern medicines are spending millions on researching compounds from traditional medicine (which I fully support), of course they are reading those so called fake ayurveda texts to get this idea, they are not 'sages' discovering this (nor like that orangutan from Indonesia recently took to news for self herbal treatment, haha), so 'we are all standing on the shoulders of giaints from time immomorial'.

These kind of Drs. just casually and shamlessly shits on treatment methods used by humans hundreds if not thousands of years earlier sitting in 2024. That is their 'loud act' to bring in attention. All the while they have access to most modern technologies with which can even visualize DNA, basic particles in universe and what not, but cannot give perfect treatment to many common ailments in this futuristic age. Average person fully understands the limitations of technology and complexities of human body and mind.
There are indeed quacks and fakes in traditional medicine because of ambuigity around it, the time lines and social structures involved. There may be enough quacks in modern medicine too.
Now people know about Ignaz Semmelweis and how the so called experts and professionals of those times treated him, their view about science and medicine. Who knows what morbid realities will be revealed about Covid19 pandemic after years, those who suffered now had to deal with it.

 

[guest_999]

Can traditional medicine / Ayurveda which existed from time immemorial be ever given such privilege ? Will Drs. like this even mildly acknowledge their influence in modern medicine ? If Ayurveda / traditional medicine evolve with modern research, will you have to rename it to modern medicine ?

Just one fact to puncture this bubble of "traditional medicine", what was the avg life expectancy in India in early/pre-1900 & what was the mortality rate during plague epidemics in India during those times. In those times majority of Indians could only afford "traditional medicines" & result was there for everyone to see. Ayurveda/traditional medicine is only good for "feel good" seasonal colds & coughs & maybe some stomach irritations but that's it, it never was & never will be able to match even decades old now on the verge of being obsolete penicillin let alone modern/upcoming gene tech. Yes scientific medicines do have their cons & yes they do have negative effects in some cases but they would any day beat any non-scientific medicine system for any serious/emergency condition & most typical conditions for majority.

And yes if someday ayurveda could prove its efficacy through a verified scientific system then it will be renamed to modern medicine though chances of that happening are negligible unless one of those mythic ayurveda figures get reincarnated (irony intended).

 

[thomasjude47]

@thomasjude47
When you are saying basics are wrong, when did basics for the so called (simple?) medicine evolve into 'modern medicine' from allopathy (now the usage is discuraged by these toutogists, but it was a common usage for English medicine) ? We know it evolved over time without much nefarious influence from such toutologits.
Can traditional medicine / Ayurveda which existed from time immemorial be ever given such privilege ? Will Drs. like this even mildly acknowledge their influence in modern medicine ? If Ayurveda / traditional medicine evolve with modern research, will you have to rename it to modern medicine ?

At a time when the mega-corporations vending modern medicines are spending millions on researching compounds from traditional medicine (which I fully support), of course they are reading those so called fake ayurveda texts to get this idea, they are not 'sages' discovering this (nor like that orangutan from Indonesia recently took to news for self herbal treatment, haha), so 'we are all standing on the shoulders of giaints from time immomorial'.

These kind of Drs. just casually and shamlessly shits on treatment methods used by humans hundreds if not thousands of years earlier sitting in 2024. That is their 'loud act' to bring in attention. All the while they have access to most modern technologies with which can even visualize DNA, basic particles in universe and what not, but cannot give perfect treatment to many common ailments in this futuristic age. Average person fully understands the limitations of technology and complexities of human body and mind.
There are indeed quacks and fakes in traditional medicine because of ambuigity around it, the time lines and social structures involved. There may be enough quacks in modern medicine too.
Now people know about Ignaz Semmelweis and how the so called experts and professionals of those times treated him, their view about science and medicine. Who knows what morbid realities will be revealed about Covid19 pandemic after years, those who suffered now had to deal with it.

Sorry I didn't read your entire post. But got an idea just by eyeballing. We have won more battles in the last couple of thousand years by using bows and arrows and riding on horsebacks. Many thanks to bows and arrows and huge respect for horses for giving their life .
Do you wish to see Indian army getting equipped with bows and arrows today? Shall we replace battle tanks with horses just because they served for so long? Or just because that's the only thing that was there for thousands of years?
Just like the liver doctor said there's not a single condition for which ayurveda or any alternative medicine was found to be effective. If it's effective, it will be refined and integrated into modern medicine. That's for the benefit of humanity..
If sufficient evidence is presented then I will change my view and modify practice accordingly.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@thomasjude47
I also only needed to merely eyeball your comment, anyways...
Here in 2024, we still hail heroic and powerful some war horses were, some have their names etched in Indian history forever. You have still their place in nation's defense ! Not to mention about metallurgy of weapons involved. We don't sit here, stymie and mock them unlike living by made mandate professionals. Actually, thnx for bringing out the spiriting in discussion, even partly !

> Just like the liver doctor said there's not a single condition for which ayurveda or any alternative medicine was found to be effective. If it's effective, it will be refined and integrated into modern medicine. That's for the benefit of humanity..

So, research texts from thousands year old knowledge, copy and fine tune that information, take patents and make profit, then f**t at the generation direction of knowledge they leeched from !!! So, that common man should never looks that side, otherwise where is profit, right ? Not saying all medicines are like this, but at least a few. Very good idea, haha /s
That is not for benefit of humanity, that is for benefit of vested interests. Only useful idiots fall for it. Large part of blame lies in so called caretakers of traditional medicines also who didn't follow scientific approach to find correct compounds involved.

 

[thomasjude47]

@thomasjude47
I also only needed to merely eyeball your comment, anyways...
Here in 2024, we still hail heroic and powerful some war horses were, some have their names etched in Indian history forever. You have still their place in nation's defense ! Not to mention about metallurgy of weapons involved. We don't sit here, stymie and mock them unlike living by made mandate professionals. Actually, thnx for bringing out the spiriting in discussion, even partly !

> Just like the liver doctor said there's not a single condition for which ayurveda or any alternative medicine was found to be effective. If it's effective, it will be refined and integrated into modern medicine. That's for the benefit of humanity..

So, research texts from thousands year old knowledge, copy and fine tune that information, take patents and make profit, then f**t at the generation direction of knowledge they leeched from !!! So, that common man should never looks that side, otherwise where is profit, right ? Not saying all medicines are like this, but at least a few. Very good idea, haha /s
That is not for benefit of humanity, that is for benefit of vested interests. Only useful idiots fall for it. Large part of blame lies in so called caretakers of traditional medicines also who didn't follow scientific approach to find correct compounds involved.

That's just an emotional response. You are proud of our history; that's it. There's still no evidence, and it will continue to be like that even if thousands of crores are spent on it, because that's not how the human body works and is not compatible with universal science. Thousand of crores are already being wasted in this area by AYUSH. Susrutha , Charaka Dhanavantari are all acknowledged in most surgery textbooks written by foreign authors, just in the intro parts. You can see their paintings on campuses where modern medicine is taught. Their role ends there. Everything we use today is developed because someone benefits from it.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@thomasjude47
> That's just an emotional response.
I took your example and at least proved that your example is outright misplaced or wrong in the given context.
Don't think anything wrong is in my comments.

> You are proud of our history; that's it.
Why, can't people be proud of own history ? We always only be proud of somebody else's history or what ?
Dude, it's just about the example you provided, not directly related to history as such . Probably you took wrong example ?
Lol, now you feel it's just emotion ?

> There's still no evidence, and it will continue to be like that even if thousands of crores are spent on it, because that's not how the human body works and is not compatible with universal science.

Lol, what you are actually trying to convey ?
Have you even a bit bothered about role of nature in modern medicine ? Many important treatments in modern day owe their origins in nature.

> Susrutha , Charaka Dhanavantari are all acknowledged in most surgery textbooks written by foreign authors, just in the intro parts. You can see their paintings on campuses where modern medicine is taught. Their role ends there.

Yeah, probably on hope that if one may be read some of old books, they may be able to inspire new modern medicines ?
The role of modern day degree holders are to aspire how inquiring those minds were, may be.
Good that at least some paintings exists.
Even otherwise, Indians have to refer foreigner's transcript to understand own books in Sanskrit. Don't know why /s.

> Everything we use today is developed because someone benefits from it.
Now, that is just a filler statement.

 

[guest_999]

You are proud of our history; that's it.

Which is quite ironic considering modern human civilization appeared only around 5000 years ago while this planet was formed around 4.5 billion years ago so entire human civilization history is not even 0.0001% of this planet's history so what is even there to be proud of in the first place. Just a virus invisible to the eyes with a mutation can have the potential to wipe off humanity from the face of the Earth despite having all those nukes whose combined energy output is still less than the Sun's energy output per second.

Don't try to change the mind of the "believers", it is quite ironic that same ppl who bash a certain religion for having strong "beliefs" in a certain book written hundreds of years ago themselves feel so strongly about stuff written in certain books written even longer ago.

 

[thomasjude47]

@thomasjude47
> That's just an emotional response.
I took your example and at least provide your example is outright misplaced or wrong in the given context.
Don't think anything wrong is in my comments.

> You are proud of our history; that's it.
Why, can't people be proud of own history ? We always only be proud of somebody else's history or what ?
Dude, it's just about the example you provided, not directly related to history as such . Probably you took wrong example ?
Lol, now you feel it's just emotion ?

> There's still no evidence, and it will continue to be like that even if thousands of crores are spent on it, because that's not how the human body works and is not compatible with universal science.

Lol, what you are actually trying to convey ?
Have you even a bit bothered about role of nature in modern medicine ? Many important treatments in modern day owe their origins in nature.

> Susrutha , Charaka Dhanavantari are all acknowledged in most surgery textbooks written by foreign authors, just in the intro parts. You can see their paintings on campuses where modern medicine is taught. Their role ends there.

Yeah, probably on hope that if one may be read some of old books, they may be able to inspire new modern medicines ?
The role of modern day degree holders are to aspire how inquiring those minds were, may be.
Good that at least some paintings exists.
Even otherwise, Indians have to refer foreigner's transcript to understand own books in Sanskrit. Don't know why /s.

> Everything we use today is developed because someone benefits from it.
Now, that is just a filler statement.

Those things are up to you, and I respect that. I am not interested in a facebook comments section like discussion here. If you have evidence, kindly post it it here.

 

[guest_999]

If you have evidence, kindly post it it here.

One thing you should never ask from a "believer" because either it will be no reply or such a subjective reply/misinformation that will leave you shaking your head. Just focus on your close ones so that they don't fall into the trap of this pseudo-medicine.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@guest_999
Don't know what is even going on here, what is the whole point or relevance of this comment of yours in this thread:

> "Which is quite ironic considering modern human civilization appeared only around 5000 years ago while this planet was formed around 4.5 billion years ago so entire human civilization history is not even 0.0001% of this planet's history so what is even there to be proud of in the first place. Just a virus invisible to the eyes with a mutation can have the potential to wipe off humanity from the face of the Earth despite having all those nukes whose combined energy output is still less than the Sun's energy output per second.

Don't try to change the mind of the "believers", it is quite ironic that same ppl who bash a certain religion for having strong "beliefs" in a certain book written hundreds of years ago themselves feel so strongly about stuff written in certain books written even longer ago."

WTH ???

> Just one fact to puncture this bubble of "traditional medicine", what was the avg life expectancy in India in early/pre-1900 & what was the mortality rate during plague epidemics in India during those times.

Not directly related to macro-level discussions in this thread, anyways...

Life expectancy was low almost everywhere in the whole world.
Around 30-50% of European population (where medicine / modern medicine / allopathy was used) got wiped out in misdeal period. What about Spanish Flu and many other pandemics ?
Controlled after following strict quarantine procedures, same methods were used in India in harsh / crude forms.
Waldemar Haffkine's vaccines started in Bombay's 1900s epidemic only in India.

> In those times majority of Indians could only afford "traditional medicines" & result was there for everyone to see.
That was the only option available to majority of Indians and many people outside the subcontinent.

> Ayurveda/traditional medicine is only good for "feel good" seasonal colds & coughs & maybe some stomach irritations
Manytimes, modern medicine also work like that in situations required.

> And yes if someday ayurveda could prove its efficacy through a verified scientific system then it will be renamed to modern medicine
Yep, that is the whole point.
Once a traditional medicine is researched and proved to be good, it automagically become modern medicine ! That is how it always worked and the whole point of discussion ! HAHaha...!!!

@ thomasjude47
> Those things are up to you, and I respect that. I am not interested in a facebook comments section like discussion here. If you have evidence, kindly post it it here.

Evidence to what, horses (and camels) still being used in defense by India ? That was example you tried to project (but was unfortunately misplaced by you), yes they are still being used in defense, they have their place even now, though they will be timely replaced with machines. What is with that ?
Am not the one who brought that in discussion, then why so emotional ?
Or about influence of nature or herbs in medicine ? Did you even attempt a bit of research yourself prior to requesting others to do it for you ? Even if you do basic level google search you will get some required information, but require integrity in discussion and some curiosity.

 

[thomasjude47]

@guest_999
Don't know what is even going on here, what is the whole point or relevance of this comment of yours in this thread:

> "Which is quite ironic considering modern human civilization appeared only around 5000 years ago while this planet was formed around 4.5 billion years ago so entire human civilization history is not even 0.0001% of this planet's history so what is even there to be proud of in the first place. Just a virus invisible to the eyes with a mutation can have the potential to wipe off humanity from the face of the Earth despite having all those nukes whose combined energy output is still less than the Sun's energy output per second.

Don't try to change the mind of the "believers", it is quite ironic that same ppl who bash a certain religion for having strong "beliefs" in a certain book written hundreds of years ago themselves feel so strongly about stuff written in certain books written even longer ago."

WTH ???

> Just one fact to puncture this bubble of "traditional medicine", what was the avg life expectancy in India in early/pre-1900 & what was the mortality rate during plague epidemics in India during those times.

Not directly related to macro-level discussions in this thread, anyways...

Life expectancy was low almost everywhere in the whole world.
Around 30-50% of European population (where medicine / modern medicine / allopathy was used) got wiped out in misdeal period. What about Spanish Flu and many other pandemics ?
Controlled after following strict quarantine procedures, same methods were used in India in harsh / crude forms.
Waldemar Haffkine's vaccines started in Bombay's 1900s epidemic only in India.

> In those times majority of Indians could only afford "traditional medicines" & result was there for everyone to see.
That was the only option available to majority of Indians and many people outside the subcontinent.

> Ayurveda/traditional medicine is only good for "feel good" seasonal colds & coughs & maybe some stomach irritations
Manytimes, modern medicine also work like that in situations required.

> And yes if someday ayurveda could prove its efficacy through a verified scientific system then it will be renamed to modern medicine
Yep, that is the whole point.
Once a traditional medicine is researched and proved to be good, it automagically become modern medicine ! That is how it always worked and the whole point of discussion ! HAHaha...!!!

@ thomasjude47
> Those things are up to you, and I respect that. I am not interested in a facebook comments section like discussion here. If you have evidence, kindly post it it here.

Evidence to what, horses (and camels) still being used in defense by India ? That was example you tried to project (but was unfortunately misplaced by you), yes they are still being used in defense, they have their place even now, though they will be timely replaced with machines. What is with that ?
Am not the one who brought that in discussion, then why so emotional ?
Or about influence of nature or herbs in medicine ? Did you even attempt a bit of research yourself prior to requesting others to do it for you ? Even if you do basic level google search you will get some required information, but require integrity in discussion and some curiosity

Yes, just like horses of today restrict Ayurveda and other gimmicks to places where their absence or presence does not make a difference. PLague killed so much of the population because there was no modern medicine or antibiotics during that era. Ayurveda was there, like a silent observer, watching people die while mixing herbs. Google search is not research...pls understand that

 

[altair21]

Conventional medicines at least have the possibility of being allowed/disallowed based on credible scientific research

Aligned with you on this,

unlike non-conventional medicines where everything is subjective involving multiple factors not to mention possibility of legal consequences/compensation in case of conventional medicines. Non-conventional medicines are purely on your own risk & no possibility of any legal action/compensation.

Not so much on this, I like to follow LiverDoc because some of the things he has highlighted has been truly eye-opening so far but what I dont agree with is his attitude towards anything "non-conventional", saying anything thats not been proved in clinical trials/research, specially stuff that we have been following for hundreds of years being marked as a "quack" or a "witch doctor's medicine" is just bullshit, Just because it hasnt been proven yet doesn't mean its bullshit.

Call me a quack, andhbkat or whatever we are called online these days, but Ayurveda is effective, now will I forego western medicine or Allopathy over it? **** no, Will I ever recommend it to someone? again **** no, because I dont know whats your medicine history, how the medicine would react to you and all I can give is anecdotal history but it works

Case in point, my family, we have been using homeopathic medicine/ayurveda for decades now, my father's brother (my uncle) is a doctor and even he ends up just using homeopathic medicines, while I would say that the wariness against Western medicines is highly exaggerated, there is still some truth to it, I can offer a couple of anecdotes on it, first is mine, I had suffered through stage 2 Pneumonia and was admitted to the hospital with a heavy antibiotics regimen, and after the treatment my LFT's (Liver function tests) were so bad, it looked like I was an experienced alcoholic according to the doctor.
2nd case is of my friend's father, who happily pop a paracetamol whenever they feel under the weather or take whatever antibiotics the doctors prescribe them without any question, he had a pretty bad ear infection and doctors had to literally increase his dosage because his body was forming a resistance to antibiotics

My point after these anecdotes is, allopathy or western medicines isnt the savior that the liver doc happily proclaims nor is the "non conventional" medicines that he rants against, a witch doctor's remedy. We use homeopathic treatment when the symptoms or the illness isnt serious, but when shit hits the fan, we are the first ones to go to the doctor and take whatever they give, The main issue with these medicines is that there are so many con-men disguised as doctors that it gets hard to tell who's legit, but it aint the quack medicine its proclaimed as.

@altair21
These people work with 'mandates' of given time and context, they don't honestly follow their own research and are nefariously against any ideas from the other side. Such people don't have a heart of their own.
It's a big problem when they are not at all ready to even minutely acknowledge merits of opposite side and will go any length to hide negatives of their own.
I will prefer to see both sides and take positives from both.

that's the main issue for me, the pharma lobbying is way too strong with zero accountability, and they love to proclaim anything thats not their product as a quack, Like if there were proper checks and balances, I would happily give my support to them but history has amply proven, that anything that comes out of pharma lobby warrants a second glance.

Good video especially the starting part of "allopathy". As for ayurveda being scam I would say it is just a case of being lucky like how rapper 50 cent was shot 9 times but still survived while people often die with a single bullet wound/knife wound. Most of the ayurveda nowadays is just that, a case of being lucky.

Nope, thats what you have been led to believe, I cant offer you any research except for anecdotal evidence, but I am pretty sure there are people around you who use patanjali or other ayurvedic products, look up patanajli Yog gram in haridwar, its kinda like a health retreat where Ramdev/Patanjali use ayurved medicines and exercies etc to treat patients, and I have known many including my parents who have gone their and have actually felt relief from chronic pains/diseases.

My father is a chronic patient of Gout and my mother too has joint issues, and while they could function, the pain sometimes left them unable to function, they attended that retreat for a couple of weeks and while the pain was there, it was drastically reduced and the frequency of flare ups have significantly reduced too and all they did over there was take those medicines, strict diet control, Yog in the morning and those therapies that they were prescribed like enemas, Leech therapy etc etc. All of this was simply ayurved and nothing else. We know others too in our network, one a diabetic and other a liver patient who have felt significant relief too after going there and I am pretty sure you can find some in your own network too,

you can call it whatever you want but it does work and its not a luck issue.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@altair21
>that's the main issue for me, the pharma lobbying is way too strong with zero accountability, and they love to proclaim anything thats not their product as a quack

They don't have any qualms what so ever when they say:

> And yes if someday ayurveda could prove its efficacy through a verified scientific system then it will be renamed to modern medicine

See, if it works, it automatically becomes modern medicine !. Am not denying that too, rather fully agree. But they does not forget to turn back and shame traditional medicine from which they derived modern medicine. This level of hypocrisy is what I dislike.

As mentioned by you, at least in very very few occasions, there had been life changing cure from Ayurvedia in my family. Because of that, though am all in for modern medicine, cannot forget traditional medicines.

 

[thomasjude47]

what is stage

Aligned with you on this,

Not so much on this, I like to follow LiverDoc because some of the things he has highlighted has been truly eye-opening so far but what I dont agree with is his attitude towards anything "non-conventional", saying anything thats not been proved in clinical trials/research, specially stuff that we have been following for hundreds of years being marked as a "quack" or a "witch doctor's medicine" is just bullshit, Just because it hasnt been proven yet doesn't mean its bullshit.

Call me a quack, andhbkat or whatever we are called online these days, but Ayurveda is effective, now will I forego western medicine or Allopathy over it? **** no, Will I ever recommend it to someone? again **** no, because I dont know whats your medicine history, how the medicine would react to you and all I can give is anecdotal history but it works

Case in point, my family, we have been using homeopathic medicine/ayurveda for decades now, my father's brother (my uncle) is a doctor and even he ends up just using homeopathic medicines, while I would say that the wariness against Western medicines is highly exaggerated, there is still some truth to it, I can offer a couple of anecdotes on it, first is mine, I had suffered through stage 2 Pneumonia and was admitted to the hospital with a heavy antibiotics regimen, and after the treatment my LFT's (Liver function tests) were so bad, it looked like I was an experienced alcoholic according to the doctor.
2nd case is of my friend's father, who happily pop a paracetamol whenever they feel under the weather or take whatever antibiotics the doctors prescribe them without any question, he had a pretty bad ear infection and doctors had to literally increase his dosage because his body was forming a resistance to antibiotics

My point after these anecdotes is, allopathy or western medicines isnt the savior that the liver doc happily proclaims nor is the "non conventional" medicines that he rants against, a witch doctor's remedy. We use homeopathic treatment when the symptoms or the illness isnt serious, but when shit hits the fan, we are the first ones to go to the doctor and take whatever they give, The main issue with these medicines is that there are so many con-men disguised as doctors that it gets hard to tell who's legit, but it aint the quack medicine its proclaimed as.

that's the main issue for me, the pharma lobbying is way too strong with zero accountability, and they love to proclaim anything thats not their product as a quack, Like if there were proper checks and balances, I would happily give my support to them but history has amply proven, that anything that comes out of pharma lobby warrants a second glance.

Nope, thats what you have been led to believe, I cant offer you any research except for anecdotal evidence, but I am pretty sure there are people around you who use patanjali or other ayurvedic products, look up patanajli Yog gram in haridwar, its kinda like a health retreat where Ramdev/Patanjali use ayurved medicines and exercies etc to treat patients, and I have known many including my parents who have gone their and have actually felt relief from chronic pains/diseases.

My father is a chronic patient of Gout and my mother too has joint issues, and while they could function, the pain sometimes left them unable to function, they attended that retreat for a couple of weeks and while the pain was there, it was drastically reduced and the frequency of flare ups have significantly reduced too and all they did over there was take those medicines, strict diet control, Yog in the morning and those therapies that they were prescribed like enemas, Leech therapy etc etc. All of this was simply ayurved and nothing else. We know others too in our network, one a diabetic and other a liver patient who have felt significant relief too after going there and I am pretty sure you can find some in your own network too,

you can call it whatever you want but it does work and its not a luck issue.

which antibiotic was it?

 

[altair21]

Just one fact to puncture this bubble of "traditional medicine", what was the avg life expectancy in India in early/pre-1900 & what was the mortality rate during plague epidemics in India during those times. In those times majority of Indians could only afford "traditional medicines" & result was there for everyone to see.

If we really are talking about this, I would say the bigger issue was the british occupation and their heavy exploitation, people were dying more of starvation and overwork than anything else

what is stage

Pneumonia has 4 stages iirc, you can look it up and I was at end of stage 2 according to the doctor when I was admitted to the hospital

which antibiotic was it?

for which case?

> And yes if someday ayurveda could prove its efficacy through a verified scientific system then it will be renamed to modern medicine

See, if it works, it automatically becomes modern medicine !. Am not denying that too, rather fully agree. But they does not forget to turn back and shame traditional medicine from which they derived modern medicine. This level of hypocrisy is what I dislike.

As mentioned by you, at least in very very few occasions, there had been life changing cure from Ayurvedia in my family. Because of that, though am all in for modern medicine, cannot forget traditional medicines.

yep exactly, just like the cow urine patents, just because shot hasnt been proven methodically, doesnt mean its a hoax

 

[thomasjude47]

If we really are talking about this, I would say the bigger issue was the british occupation and their heavy exploitation, people were dying more of starvation and overwork than anything else

Pneumonia has 4 stages iirc, you can look it up and I was at end of stage 2 according to the doctor when I was admitted to the hospital

for which case?

The antibiotic which affected your liver. Actually, it is not followed in clinical practice. its a histopathological stage which doctors cannot say.

 

[TEUser2K1]

@thomasjude47
> Yes, just like horses of today restrict Ayurveda and other gimmicks to places where their absence or presence does not make a difference.

The horses are effective, that is why they are still used by defense. And even Camels. At least, get a better example.

> PLague killed so much of the population because there was no modern medicine or antibiotics during that era. Ayurveda was there, like a silent observer,

So, plague killing people in Europe was Ayurveda's fault ?
Man, if you make silly arguments like this, note that Ayurveda mentions isolation in cases like these. And considered sanitation was important. Which is even followed in modern era during Covid19 which killed millions (pharma lobby as mute spectator or greedy villain is obviously different topic). Read some history and you will find how silk route influenced it, to British rule's casual attitude and even geo-politics caused damage.
At that time, Ayurveda also provided possible options which it can.

> Google search is not research...pls understand that
Tons of research papers and articles at your finger tip dude, for basic information people don't directly travel to research labs and talk with scientists, technology these days, you know. Lol. You reached fag end of this.