gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
Front loading or top loading washing machine?
- Thread starter DrkLord
- Start date
blr_p
Oracle
no pressure
Look at the weight of the three, the LG is the heaviest and the whirlpool is the lightest.
Search for noise and see the comments/questions for all three. I see numerous complaints about noise with the whirlpool
Then search for lint. I don't know why some people have a problem with lint and others do not.
The LG has 3 motions the others less so comparatively it will do slightly better at wash action. Unless you sort out your water quality there won't be an improvement in wash quality.
The only review that flags this LG as one to avoid is below
Check out this Amazon review of LG 6.5 Kg 5 Star Inverter Turbodrum Fully Automatic Top Loading Washing Machine (T65SKSF4Z, 3 Smart Motion, Tub Clean, Middle Free Silver)
Please Don't Buy It waste of money
www.amazon.in
What to make of it?
People say the rinse quality of this LG is not good
There is another model that is 5k more, it has 3 punch and a lid that closes slowly. It's 20k. 5 k more just for that.
Nobody complaining about rinse quality there. It's 5k more.
The Sammy is quite closely matched with the 15k LG. But people also complaining about rinse quality which is absolutely bloody crucial
I don't think any of these three is satisfactory. ALL got issues somewhere and its not surprising because you're scrapping the bottom of the barrel here.
These machines are one step above a semi-automatic. That is all.
Front loading or top loading washing machine?
Top loader. And they want semi-auto due to some bad exp. with fully auto earlier. Still will press them for a full auto. +1 here too. Although I want to go for a FL, my maternal uncle is hell bent on semi-auto TL. So given the budget constraints and my period of stay, I would need some...
techenclave.com
See the LG i recommended there, It will be better. And even that one will have average wash quality. These will likely be worse.
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Mr.J
Innovator
blr_p
Oracle
There are better options than that. Remaining with IFB in this post.
Buy IFB 6.5 kg 5 Star Fully Automatic Top Load Washing Machine (Aqua, TL-REWS, Power Steam Wash, White) Online - Croma
Buy IFB 6.5 kg 5 Star Fully Automatic Top Load Washing Machine (Aqua, TL-REWS, Power Steam Wash, White) online at best prices from Croma. Check product details, reviews & more. Shop now!www.croma.com
REWS vs. RPSS is a hands down RPSS win. The RPSS allows
- to set the temperature. The REWS does not.
- 8 water levels over 4.
- to set wash cycle time (3-20 min), soak time (38/48/58 min) and rinse duration time (1 - 5min)
What I cannot find is setting the number of rinses. Does this mean you will have to go with whatever default rinses of the program you select?
There is no user manual to download for these models.
To do one better, the SPSS model has a slow closing lid. This is very handy to have. You get a couple more wash programs for Blankets & Anti-Allergen. 10 water levels instead of 8.
You see how the UI changes. If you want to set your own custom program then the one below has that. A dial to select programs is handy. This one has a darker tinted window which is less desirable.
All are on the IFB website. These models are not available on amazon. Which means there are no reviews. When I do look for reviews for IFB I see hustling going on.
Since you know very little about these machines it's easy to get fooled. See some examples
Check out this Amazon review of IFB 6.5 Kg 5 Star Fully-Automatic Top Loading Washing Machine Appliance (REWH AQUA, White, Inbuilt Heater, 3D Wash Technology)
be aware of additional costs not included (as per installation support engineer reco.)
www.amazon.in
Insists on a 'filter' which is this one. Always refuse anything that is magnetic and claims to do water conditioning. It does not work and will do nothing.
Next, he will tell you to only use liquid detergent. This is why. IFB does not sell powder, only liquid. Surf has been in the business for over a century in this country. You don't need any of these. Unless it's for woollens. Avoid the fabric conditioner.
After that, he will insist on a stand. There is no need for that either. It will work perfectly well on its own. You will need to level it. And if he insists on a stand for that then he does not know his job. Putting a machine on a stand gives easy access to rats if there is no rat guard covering the bottom of the machine.
This machine should be able to handle voltage variations but it can stop if the variations are too much. 209V is too low to handle. You might need a stabiliser in that case.
Finally, he will want to sell you a cover. if it is indoors you don't need it. Only if it's on a veranda or someplace it will be exposed to dust and sunlight.
If he does offer any descaler. You can pick up a few of those.
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gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I understand the model you shared has only a difference of 5k but I was thinking of keeping a budget of below 15k. But still will explore the LG option shared today and decide.no pressure
Look at the weight of the three, the LG is the heaviest and the whirlpool is the lightest.
Search for noise and see the comments/questions for all three. I see numerous complaints about noise with the whirlpool
Then search for lint. I don't know why some people have a problem with lint and others do not.
The LG has 3 motions the others less so comparatively it will do slightly better at wash action. Unless you sort out your water quality there won't be an improvement in wash quality.
The only review that flags this LG as one to avoid is below
Check out this Amazon review of LG 6.5 Kg 5 Star Inverter Turbodrum Fully Automatic Top Loading Washing Machine (T65SKSF4Z, 3 Smart Motion, Tub Clean, Middle Free Silver)
Please Don't Buy It waste of moneywww.amazon.in
What to make of it?
People say the rinse quality of this LG is not good
There is another model that is 5k more, it has 3 punch and a lid that closes slowly. It's 20k. 5 k more just for that.
Nobody complaining about rinse quality there. It's 5k more.
The Sammy is quite closely matched with the 15k LG. But people also complaining about rinse quality which is absolutely bloody crucial
I don't think any of these three is satisfactory. ALL got issues somewhere and its not surprising because you're scrapping the bottom of the barrel here.
These machines are one step above a semi-automatic. That is all.
Front loading or top loading washing machine?
Top loader. And they want semi-auto due to some bad exp. with fully auto earlier. Still will press them for a full auto. +1 here too. Although I want to go for a FL, my maternal uncle is hell bent on semi-auto TL. So given the budget constraints and my period of stay, I would need some...
See the LG i recommended there, It will be better. And even that one will have average wash quality. These will likely be worse.
But even if I want the best from the worst lot I assume it would be the LG one for 15k, correct?
Kaleen Bhaiya
Innovator
How about this model from Panasonic?Check the size of this tub and compare it with this. The next size up in terms of the drum is 9kg
7Kg Top Load Smart Washer with Inverter - T70SJSF2ZA | LG IN
Buy 7Kg Top Load Washing Machine with Smart Inverter Motor and TurboDrum™ (T70SJSF2ZA) at the best price with FREE shipping and LG Certified Installation.www.lg.com
LG 7 Kg 5 Star Smart Inverter Fully-Automatic Top Load Washing Machine (T70SJSF2ZA, Middle Free Silver, TurboDrum | Jet Spray+) : Amazon.in: Home & Kitchen
LG 7 Kg 5 Star Smart Inverter Fully-Automatic Top Load Washing Machine (T70SJSF2ZA, Middle Free Silver, TurboDrum | Jet Spray+) : Amazon.in: Home & Kitchenwww.amazon.in
Jetspray+ model
Running costs will be high given the volume of water. You better give it a miss. At this budget, I doubt you will find anything with a heater.
With water between 20-30 degrees C, liquid detergent dissolves better but it is an open question of how well it washes out compared to powder.
Stick to Surf and teach him how to clean the tub as explained in the cleaning thread. He's going to have to do that at least every 3 months.
While I agree that running costs will be high, then there will be compromises with any of the functionality provided by the manufacturer. For most of the functions to be really effective, you will need hot water for the detergent to do its job the best. And at my location, temps dip to single digits in winters so washing clothes in cold water wont't be that good. So I am willing to sacrifice on those features in place of hot water.
Your views?
blr_p
Oracle
Best in terms of what? features, design, usability? that would be the Samsung. If that's what you want then go with the Samsung.
This is typical. Samsung throws in lots of features. LG is more plain jane but better built. So LG typically does not offer as many options in the lower segments.
The good news is both the LG & Samsung have user manuals, unlike Whirlpool. Both the LG & Samsung have lint filters which is not there in the Whirlpool. They say it's not required but @tech.addict has problems with lint on clothes which never got resolved.
See this video for the Samsung
The console has been moved up because it was found taking wet clothes out would drip water over the console if it was situated upfront like the LG. Maybe the earlier Samsung models with membrane panels upfront were less insulated from water damage than LG's so Samsung resolved the reliability issue with older models this way.
Samsung has a soak feature. Rinse & spin time durations can be customised and the manual says up to 5 rinses are possible. Important since your water quality is poor which means you will add more detergent than normal and it will take more water to get rid of that detergent. Really useful features to have on a machine. The LG does not offer them. The Sammy has a nice clear window so you can see better inside. From a practical pov I'd go with the Samsung.
See this video for the LG. This is the 15k model. There is no rinse problem here that I can see. It has the default two spins or rinse+ which adds a third. It is simpler. Has less options.
At this price, there does not seem to be an imbalance sensor. So it won't slow and readjust the clothes. Once it starts spinning, if there is an imbalance it will just continue and get loud. You will have to stop it and readjust otherwise leave it as is. If it can't manage it will throw up a 'UB' code and you will have to intervene. If you don't want this hassle then you will have to pay more for a model that can readjust and find its way.
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gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
@blr_p you are really great. Such indepth knowledge on the subject and detailed explanation.
We only use the normal wash and quick wash function. All other features are not being used. So main is durability and in case of out of warranty issue good and cheap repairs.
Also from above it seems Whirlpool is out so now I will have to choose between Samsung and LG. Planning to visit some shops now to see and understand about both the models not sure whether these will be available offline but will give it a try.
blr_p
Oracle
This applies to people who have good quality water. Unless you take the time and expense to improve your water quality your wash quality will at best be average if that.
If stains don't come out you can increase the wash cycle time. If the detergent does not come out you can increase the rinse cycle time or the number of rinses. I think the Samsung is more adaptable to varying conditions than the LG which will wash better under normal conditions. You do not have normal conditions.
Durability is down to you. Maintain the machine and I think either will be similar. There is no spider to worry about here. Both are belt driven. So repairs should be low in cost. If your electricity isn't erratic then either machine should last.
Did not look at the whirlpool yet but the lint issue is there. The Whirlpool has a 'hard water' feature but does not explain it further. Typically that means longer wash & rinse cycles which you can configure with the Samsung and to a lesser extent the LG.
Download the user manuals of both and study them. Don't depend too much on the salespeople. They are thinking of themselves not you. If he gets a better commission with one brand he will promote that even if it's not best for you.
Always know the product you want to buy better than the person that sells it to you.
Kaleen Bhaiya
Innovator
I am curious as to why there is lint issue faced on a TL machine than a FL. This machine at my native has linting issue and I have to scrape it off using a brush type scrubber. Never had this in FL.
Has the washing style has anything to do with it?
Has the washing style has anything to do with it?
blr_p
Oracle
Looks pretty good with a clear window. Just as configurable as the Sammy but also has a heater AND the favourite function so you can program it. Here is a review of the 7kg variant. He goes on about how powerful the motor is but didn't put clothes in there to get an idea of wash action. Still, credit is due for being the first Indian reviewer I found who shows wash action. THAT is how you review a top loader.
Panasonic Fully Automatic Top Load Washing Machine NA-F67BH8MRB
Panasonic 6.7 KG (NA-F67BH8MRB) Fully Automatic Top Load Washing Machine comes with water reuse course, ActiveFoam system, intensive stain removal and more.
Steep discount by amazon compared to list price. It's a good deal if service is available in your city. What is the drum size though? Amazed at the size fiddling here between 6.2 - 7.5kg
It looks like 52 L which means your max load is 25 litres tops for the best wash. The manual shows you can load it more but that will reduce the wash action. Best to see this model in a showroom so you can decide whether the size is big enough. There are bigger variants available though the space increase seems small for the price increase. The Koreans do bigger tubs at 62L. That's the tradeoff.
So long as it is at least 40 that is good enough. Hot means 60, you need warm at 40 as a minimum. You can see their images are what I told you about enzymes earlier
Some people will mix detergent with warm water to activate it. But this is a small quantity that will get chilled when it's put into the main wash. I doubt this way is effective.
Did you know in a top loader you have to dose detergent based on water level? Front loaders are much easier in comparison.
I don't see a figure for temperature. Just this 'hot' and 'warm'. I looked for manuals for similar and discovered that 'hot' means 40 degrees and 'warm' means 30 degrees. The IFB models had specific figures. That American reviewer mentioned that the higher the energy rating the lower that hot and warm really is. The video review above confirms these temperatures with a thermometer. So you can see the same with this Panasonic.
About running costs, I've yet to see any real-world measurements when the heater is on. Looking at an earlier IFB model the manual says half a unit at max. Now my front loader consumes a quarter of a unit at 40 degrees with 5L. If hot for this machine is 40 around half a unit or little more looks realistic.
eg. That 8kg LG with 6 motion and steam I linked a page back has the steam option for two cycles. Normal and allergen cycle where it uses hot water but the rating is only for 2.5kg and not the 8kg rating for the Allergen cycle. So if that is the case then a half unit consumption at real 60 degrees is credible. Note the LG does not mention temperatures anywhere just steam so they're being coy as well though I expect steam above 50 degrees. Since I can access the user manual we get some idea of the functionality. The thing is I can't find any explanation of whether steam with the normal cycle allows rated load. It should but the manual isn't clear about that. If not then this is not replacing a front loader that can wash at 40, or 60 at full weight rating.
Looking at the Panasonic 7kg Econavi NA-F70V9LRB, one reviewer posted the program cycle. It can handle 40 degrees at the rated load but 60 degrees can only take a 2.5kg load. See attached. There is something interesting happening here in the definition of 'hot'. If you run the normal cycle then 'hot' means 40. But if you run any of the stainmaster programs then hot translates into either 50 or 60 degrees C. This guy also says the 27k Panasonic he bought washes no better than a 14k top loader. Well, if his water quality is hard then that will be true. But if it's normal or not too hard then the difference between low and high-end will be more apparent. That is why water quality is so important
So, if you can get a copy of the page where the programs are described in the manual you will know whether this machine can do a 40-degree wash at the rated load. I suspect you will have to use the 'hot' setting for 40 degrees C and the 'warm' will be 30. For a rated load. Which is good enough.
Where is that location?
Why not check out their latest model? it pushes the console to the back so that will mean fewer problems with the controls over the long run and it's got wifi too with Alexa or google integration. If you use the phone then you won't be pressing any buttons on the machine either so that works too. It can track water and power consumption.
Can't wait for your review
Reasons according to the top loader manuals.
- mixing lint producers (towels, flannel) with lint collectors (synthetic or mixed fabrics)
- Overloading or the detergent used isn't foaming enough. You want a light foam on top but not too much to carry away the lint and dirt for that matter. With overloading, there will be not enough foam or using too little detergent or one that does not foam enough will cause this problem. To check you are using the correct amount of Detergent, lift the lid of your machine about halfway through the wash. There should be a thin layer of foam over the surface of the water. Lots of foam may look good, but it does not contribute to cleaning your clothes. No foam means not enough detergent has been used so soil and lint can settle back on the clothes or the washing machine. If excess Detergent is used, the rinse will not be efficient. Also, it could cause environmental pollution, so use it accordingly.
- the water level chosen by the machine might not be enough so set a higher water level. This can happen if the load is bulky but lightweight so the machine gets confused and sets a lower water level than necessary. I think this might fix the bulk of problems people have. Our clothes are thinner due to the weather so the machine does not use enough water. Top loaders with 8-10 water level settings offer finer grain control than just 4 water level settings and are more economical in the long run in terms of water and detergent. A mix of light and heavier items where you put the lighter items in first and then the heavier might help weight things down than if all the clothes were thin and light and just float no matter the water level. So you need a mix of clothes.
- Water not warm enough will not activate the detergent. No foam. Temperature below 18°C... will not activate laundry additives and may cause lint, residue, poor cleaning etc. In addition, Detergent manufacturers and care labels define COLD water as 26-29°C... If the temperature of the water in the tub is too cold for your hands, the Detergent will not activate and clean effectively.
You can be more adventurous with detergent in a TL than a FL. There is no spider that can break. If it cleans and does the job use it. Use too much liquids you will have to do regular tub clean cycles in hot water. Powders are low maintenance that way.
All about the look, you will have to recognise or adjust to get the water level enough, the right 'mix' of clothes and the right look of foam
Yeah, a little more fine art is required here than with FL's.
@tech.addict can you confirm?
Attachments
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gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
After all the discussions, suggestions, study and reviews ordered the Samsung top load Machine. WA65T4262GG. Waiting for delivery now. Thank you everyone for your comments and suggestions.
blr_p
Oracle
That Panasonic did not interest you? for 2k more it's the best I've seen but the tub will be smaller.
Korean 7kg is bigger than Japanese 7kg (F70 models) by 10 litres which is a pretty big difference. That's what you give up to have a heater with the Panasonic.
That's how Panasonic can offer more features for a similar price.
Korean 7kg is bigger than IFB 7kg. IFB 7.5kg matches Korean 7kg
The IFB 8kg is bigger than Koreans 8kg.
Korean 9kg is bigger than IFB 9kg.
To match Korean 9kg requires a 10.5kg IFB
.......
....... 
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gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
Never heard or seen anyone using Panasonic machine in my friends or family so didn't gave much thought. Also for warm or hot water I have solar heater so use the water from there for such use.
blr_p
Oracle
You're good then. Make sure you descale it every three months. Hard water has a way of screwing with sensors.
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gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
For descaling the descalers available on Amazon are good or shall I buy from the installation person who sells at 3times more. Also I heard the descalers are nothing but citric acid, is it true? If so can we use the common citric acid for the purpose?
blr_p
Oracle
My understanding is they are citric acid in the majority. But the packets they sell you are 100gm. That is the amount you use in a front loader with 15L water for tub clean.
For a top loader with full water, you will need more. Three packets at least and with HOT water. Hot means 60 degrees at least not 40.
Nobody will tell you this because people will complain about the price. So they make believe that 100gm for FL is as good as for TL
I would recommend you buy citric acid in bulk and use 250gm every three months in hot water with the Eco tub clean cycle. A kilo is a year's supply for a top loader.
LABOGENS Citric Acid 1000Gm : Amazon.in: Health & Personal Care
LABOGENS Citric Acid 1000Gm : Amazon.in: Health & Personal Care
www.amazon.in
This Labogens company i think we can trust. With other cheaper offerings who knows what the adulteration is
You will also have to use another cleaner to remove dirt and detergent residue that sticks to the inside of the drum. Read this thread.
When you get the machine, first thing run the eco tub clean cycle with nothing and your normal water and watch it and then describe what it does in the linked thread above. How high the water goes and how long it takes.
The thing with descaling is there is very little visual feedback unless you collect the water that drains into a bucket and inspect it.
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gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
Will sure share the details about the empty tub clean cycle.My understanding is they are citric acid in the majority. But the packets they sell you are 100gm. That is the amount you use in a front loader with 15L water for tub clean.
For a top loader with full water, you will need more. Three packets at least and with HOT water. Hot means 60 degrees at least not 40.
I would recommend you buy citric acid in bulk and use 250gm every three months in hot water with the Eco tub clean cycle. A kilo is a year's supply for a top loader.
LABOGENS Citric Acid 1000Gm : Amazon.in: Health & Personal Care
LABOGENS Citric Acid 1000Gm : Amazon.in: Health & Personal Carewww.amazon.in
This Labogens company i think we can trust. With other cheaper offerings who knows what the adulteration is
You will also have to use another cleaner to remove dirt and detergent residue that sticks to the inside of the drum. Read this thread.
When you get the machine, first thing run the eco tub clean cycle with nothing and your normal water and watch it and then describe what it does in the linked thread above. How high the water goes and how long it takes.
The thing with descaling is there is very little visual feedback unless you collect the water that drains into a bucket and inspect it.
blr_p
Oracle
gopal_agrawal
Forerunner
No not for every wash. I use that mostly for descaling and when clothes are very dirty.