cyberwarfare
Galvanizer
read my post again. by PS i meant photoshop
i also agree with abhay when he says h100 and 400r, as in get them both
41-50k Gaming plus software rig , please help out with your advice .
- Thread starter harry_houdini
- Start date
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read my post again. by PS i meant photoshop
i also agree with abhay when he says h100 and 400r, as in get them both
Here are your answers, Harry --
- Yes, these SNIPERS will do fine; to complement them go for the same RAM modules [SNIPER's] with the same capacity and specifications as the earlier kit.
- Well their is no hard and fast way of comparing things and finding right and wrong, highs and lows. Every product on the market is a compromise and whichever suits you best after these compromises is the one you need to go. In this case, under extended load the Crucial M4 is more consistent in the read-write performance and will be more speedy in random transfers / I/O operations so I will throw my weight behind the same.
- I find mechanical keyboard a slight over-kill in these days (just my opinion). the NKRO factor is good on paper but hardly a necessity for ~60% of the gaming audience [who are not MMORPG-junkies]. The MICROSOFT Sidewinder X4 is a great membrane-keyboard with upto ~20KRO rating (with the right firmware), here are a few reviews --> Review: Microsoft SideWinder X4 Keyboard : Ghost In The Machine? / Microsoft Sidewinder X4 Keyboard Review | bit-tech.net / Microsoft SideWinder X4 Review: Step Up, Son.
- If the Corsair H100 is too small for your requirements, you can look at the Cooler Master HAF series cases, OR Cooler Master STORM Enforcer ~6500/-. I cannot see how the two different budgets will accommodate the changes you entail, do a little groundwork. A lot of video reviews and otherwise reviews in general are conducted in near-pristine environments they do not factor first-hand situation like, no-soundproofing in the room, no A/C near computer [so ambient temperatures are wayward] etc etc; so do a little homework.
- Yes STEAM does have a resume option, but only under certain parameters like; you must not conduct the same download in disparate session, preferentially the same session OR consecutive sessions is best. Also the TOTAL WAR series has huge patches.
Hope this helps, Cheerio!
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harry_houdini
Contributor
@ALPHA17
Thanks , yes it does help .
Yes I will read some normal users reviews , till now I was only reading and seeing professionals .
Although I did not understand the sound proofing thing ! Sound proofing the room ? .
Also generally reviews talk of delta in the temperature , so is it still a problem if its near AC or not ? .
Yes now will do some more homework
Thanks .
Thanks , yes it does help .
Yes I will read some normal users reviews , till now I was only reading and seeing professionals .
Although I did not understand the sound proofing thing ! Sound proofing the room ? .
Also generally reviews talk of delta in the temperature , so is it still a problem if its near AC or not ? .
Yes now will do some more homework
Thanks .
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Yeah there is a review site called Silent PC Review, they take this very seriously and thus review the products sent to them in an anechoic chamber. You can visit their site and see it for yourself, I am not saying this is bad because this is how reviews should be done, unfortunately these are not the ground-realities in a country like India. So exceptions to the norm are always there and 'where there is the will to improvise, there is JUGAAD. (to make stuff happen)'
The temperature deltas will get affected if the temperatures themselves are artificially lowered with the aid of external aids like A/C's. E.g. -- Let me put my computer in an environment where the external temperature is ~20° C, I switch on my computer which due to the components in the cramped environs gets ~30° C [on idle and] ~45° C [on load] I have increased my delta T-range from ~45° C -->99° C.
Whereas in the nominal Delhi heat my PC boots in at ~38° C and at load peaks at ~55° C [this swipes my delta-T range by a full 10°'s and this can make all the difference in the reviews].
Happy RIG hunting, Cheerio!
I am lost and totally confused with the discussion that's on for the past 24 hours ..... especially about RAM's
You say you already have "2 x 4gb Gskill Sniper Ram at 1600Mhz" ..... then pray, why are you looking at 2 x 2 also (Corsair XMS 2 x 2Gb) !!!
.... Then again "No no , 4gb is too small yes , but that is for my HTPC" ..... I am going bonkers. Man, SOMEBODY HELP !!!
Are you planning on keeping your old-rig with your existing 2 x 4GB Sniper and use it as an HTPC ......... and your new rig is only gonna be 2 x 2 ?
Sort this out faaaassssst yaar.
INSTEAD JUST FOCUS ON THE COMPONENTS THAT ARE LEFT ..... PSU/COOLER/CABINET .... Am I right ?
Lastly, are you factoring in an SSD now or later (you will NEED IT ..... The performance-benefits will be astounding on this rig). Do not sacrifice this component.
Air-Cooler or Water-cooler - ? If it's H100 - go for it and a roomy cabinet (you may be tempted to later cool your GPU too with it). Do not also settle for less than 8GB RAM for this Rig (1600 or 1800Mhz).
And PSU .... well I would have suggested a modular one (since bro .... you are almost going the whole hog on this rig, why scrimp). The Seasonic ones X-Series are the best the 560/660/760 from Rs. 7150 to 8895 Buy Power Supply Units Online | India - Hardwire.in @ALPHA17 could guide you on the exact/optimal power requirement.
NOTE: The H100 + Seasonic 560 modular will come to around 14.5K.... that leaves 5.5 for the cabby (the 400R fits in) besides @cyberwarfare assures you of coming over to install it naa .....
Do some JUGAAD with your budget (upto 20K for these three naa .... and accomodate a modular PSU)
And again .... cut the RAM discussion puhleeease
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harry_houdini
Contributor
@terence_fdes
Hi Sir ,
ram confusion :
I already have a low power Amd E350N based configuration which I bought as an HTPC because that time I had no money ! .
But there was a offer for Rams online so bought them , Gskill sniper 8gb .
But the current rig does not use over 3gb .
So in my new rig , I will put the sniper 8gb and buy a new 2 x 2gb ram for my HTPC .
560W is too low . I love Seasonic myself over any other power supply , if you see my previous posts , I have even listed the advantage of Seasonic over corsair and any other power supply .
But Seasonic service in India is not nice and even in the US its pathetic , see reviews in newegg ! . That for me is an arrogant company who has unmatched products but does not care about providing good after sales support . Seasonic does not care if a single seasonic PSU is not sold , it makes the PSU's for Corsair , so any high end Corsair PSU you are buying is most probably built by Seasonic and ofcourse Corsair pays them , so anyways Seasonic makes money so they care a crap about Customer support .
But if there is a person who doesnt care about after sales service , then you can go for a Seasonic eyes closed , the features it provides are unmatched . Every component it uses is top notch because its profits directly goes in its pockets , similar power supply to Corsair has to be obviously sold at lower prices , hence some features are cut out , even the fan Seasonic uses in its gold / platinum power supplies is a Sanyo Denki San Ace Fan , just google Sanyo Denki if you dont know about them , they are one of the best out there . The fanless load operation , etc is awesome , but then again a company that doesnt provide proper after sales support is no use however good their product is crap ! . Because as Mr Chirag said once , its after all an electronic component and can fail anytime .
I will never skimp on the PSU ! . But friends said that the only advantage a modular power supply provides is good cable management , all are suggesting TX series saying its no big deal with good cable management cases . I will readily go for Seasonic but for the after sales service
.
Cyberwarfare stays too far from my place . Approx 1.5+ hrs drive considering there is no traffic , if there is then :annoyed: .
What he meants was he will guide or provide any assistance in case I need some help .
He is a champ like you when it comes to research and yea ofcourse Alpha and Jakob are always there ! .
I have decided most components but the cabinet is eating my brain . Cabinet also decides the cooler I can choose , cooling , etc . The main problem is am very inexperienced about this . I have no practical idea simply .
Also there are relatives visiting or would have got over with it this week itself . Now I dont know how long they are staying , its difficult for me too .
Got that quad in my cupboard lying to unleashed ! . But then family is also important , so trying to be patient .
At the moment they have gone out hence can post , otherwise its even difficult to switch the PC on .
Hi Sir ,
ram confusion :
I already have a low power Amd E350N based configuration which I bought as an HTPC because that time I had no money ! .
But there was a offer for Rams online so bought them , Gskill sniper 8gb .
But the current rig does not use over 3gb .
So in my new rig , I will put the sniper 8gb and buy a new 2 x 2gb ram for my HTPC .
560W is too low . I love Seasonic myself over any other power supply , if you see my previous posts , I have even listed the advantage of Seasonic over corsair and any other power supply .
But Seasonic service in India is not nice and even in the US its pathetic , see reviews in newegg ! . That for me is an arrogant company who has unmatched products but does not care about providing good after sales support . Seasonic does not care if a single seasonic PSU is not sold , it makes the PSU's for Corsair , so any high end Corsair PSU you are buying is most probably built by Seasonic and ofcourse Corsair pays them , so anyways Seasonic makes money so they care a crap about Customer support .
But if there is a person who doesnt care about after sales service , then you can go for a Seasonic eyes closed , the features it provides are unmatched . Every component it uses is top notch because its profits directly goes in its pockets , similar power supply to Corsair has to be obviously sold at lower prices , hence some features are cut out , even the fan Seasonic uses in its gold / platinum power supplies is a Sanyo Denki San Ace Fan , just google Sanyo Denki if you dont know about them , they are one of the best out there . The fanless load operation , etc is awesome , but then again a company that doesnt provide proper after sales support is no use however good their product is crap ! . Because as Mr Chirag said once , its after all an electronic component and can fail anytime .
I will never skimp on the PSU ! . But friends said that the only advantage a modular power supply provides is good cable management , all are suggesting TX series saying its no big deal with good cable management cases . I will readily go for Seasonic but for the after sales service
. Cyberwarfare stays too far from my place . Approx 1.5+ hrs drive considering there is no traffic , if there is then :annoyed: .
What he meants was he will guide or provide any assistance in case I need some help .
He is a champ like you when it comes to research and yea ofcourse Alpha and Jakob are always there ! .
I have decided most components but the cabinet is eating my brain . Cabinet also decides the cooler I can choose , cooling , etc . The main problem is am very inexperienced about this . I have no practical idea simply .
Also there are relatives visiting or would have got over with it this week itself . Now I dont know how long they are staying , its difficult for me too .
Got that quad in my cupboard lying to unleashed ! . But then family is also important , so trying to be patient .
At the moment they have gone out hence can post , otherwise its even difficult to switch the PC on .
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ram confusion :
560W is too low . I love Seasonic myself over any other power supply , if you see my previous posts , I have even listed the advantage of Seasonic over corsair and any other power supply .
But Seasonic service in India is not nice and even in the US its pathetic , see reviews in newegg ! . That for me is an arrogant company who has unmatched products but does not care about providing good after sales support . Seasonic does not care if a single seasonic PSU is not sold , it makes the PSU's for Corsair , so any high end Corsair PSU you are buying is most probably built by Seasonic and ofcourse Corsair pays them , so anyways Seasonic makes money so they care a crap about Customer support .
But if there is a person who doesnt care about after sales service , then you can go for a Seasonic eyes closed , the features it provides are unmatched . Every component it uses is top notch because its profits directly goes in its pockets , similar power supply to Corsair has to be obviously sold at lower prices , hence some features are cut out , even the fan Seasonic uses in its gold / platinum power supplies is a Sanyo Denki San Ace Fan , just google Sanyo Denki if you dont know about them , they are one of the best out there . The fanless load operation , etc is awesome , but then again a company that doesnt provide proper after sales support is no use however good their product is crap ! . Because as Mr Chirag said once , its after all an electronic component and can fail anytime .
I will never skimp on the PSU ! . But friends said that the only advantage a modular power supply provides is good cable management , all are suggesting TX series saying its no big deal with good cable management cases . I will readily go for Seasonic but for the after sales service
Cyberwarfare stays too far from my place . Approx 1.5+ hrs drive considering there is no traffic , if there is then :annoyed: .
What he meants was he will guide or provide any assistance in case I need some help .
He is a champ like you when it comes to research and yea ofcourse Alpha and Jakob are always there ! .
I have decided most components but the cabinet is eating my brain . Cabinet also decides the cooler I can choose , cooling , etc . The main problem is am very inexperienced about this . I have no practical idea simply .
Also there are relatives visiting or would have got over with it this week itself . Now I dont know how long they are staying , its difficult for me too .
Got that quad in my cupboard lying to unleashed ! . But then family is also important , so trying to be patient .
At the moment they have gone out hence can post , otherwise its even difficult to switch the PC on .
Harry your answers / solutions --
- In-case of the AMD E-350 Brazos setup, the best RAM according to me would be a single Corsair ValueRAM module [4GB OR 2GB upto you].
- For the SMPS, I reiterate that the Corsair TX v2650W / 750W should be the max you should target. If you want to get modular SMPS, the options you have are the Corsair HX650W ~8500/- OR Cooler Master Silent Pro M600W / 700W ~6000/- / 7000/- INR.
- Rest I have PM'ed you.
Hope this helped, Cheerio!
Regards - Seasonic I am aware of all that you said.....It's a risk one takes. I would look at it as being a "rock-solid product" and still go ahead. The failure rate's (I'm sure) are just too rare to bother...... it's just that small aspect "what if the unit I pick turns out to be that odd one out"
harry_houdini
Contributor
@ALPHA17 , @cyberwarfare , @Jakob , @terence_fdes , @ampdr1
Guys I ll be going to Lamington road for getting a quote , can you tell me which shops to look for ?
Mr Chirag is quite busy unfortunately so unable to get quotes at the moment , I ll wait a couple more days then I guess I ll have to go myself , so will look around a bit .
This thing has lasted too long to my liking , now feel fed up ! .
Choosing PC components is not really easy , like for most things they are ready , you just read reviews , whatever suits you , you go and order , sometimes its damn easy as there are clear winners , but for every component for every price range , there are tons of things out there for PC . But thanks to help from you guys , a lot of things are clear .
Also what GPU should I look for ? .
I have shortlisted 1. 660ti 2. gtx 670 3. HD 7950
Initially was in favor of the 7950 for the ease of overclocking but at stock there is a difference of 30 fps at 1080p in the type of game I would play most , Shogun 2 with the Gtx 670 .
In that game the 660ti and the 7950 seem similar .
One thing in which all radeon cards wipe out the gtx cards is "smallLuxGPU 2.0d4" .
What does that mean ? .
To be frank am leaning in favor of the 670 , but again wont rush without asking your opinion .
Also which companies provide good support for each AMD and Nvidia like for eg : Sapphire,XFX for AMd , MSI for Nvidia ?
Thanks
Guys I ll be going to Lamington road for getting a quote , can you tell me which shops to look for ?
Mr Chirag is quite busy unfortunately so unable to get quotes at the moment , I ll wait a couple more days then I guess I ll have to go myself , so will look around a bit .
This thing has lasted too long to my liking , now feel fed up ! .
Choosing PC components is not really easy , like for most things they are ready , you just read reviews , whatever suits you , you go and order , sometimes its damn easy as there are clear winners , but for every component for every price range , there are tons of things out there for PC . But thanks to help from you guys , a lot of things are clear .
Also what GPU should I look for ? .
I have shortlisted 1. 660ti 2. gtx 670 3. HD 7950
Initially was in favor of the 7950 for the ease of overclocking but at stock there is a difference of 30 fps at 1080p in the type of game I would play most , Shogun 2 with the Gtx 670 .
In that game the 660ti and the 7950 seem similar .
One thing in which all radeon cards wipe out the gtx cards is "smallLuxGPU 2.0d4" .
What does that mean ? .
To be frank am leaning in favor of the 670 , but again wont rush without asking your opinion .
Also which companies provide good support for each AMD and Nvidia like for eg : Sapphire,XFX for AMd , MSI for Nvidia ?
Thanks
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oops..... mate "Gaming and those krazy GPU's" not my zone (I'm into solitaire & scrabble ONLY :scared14. Moving out from here..... lol
So have you narrowed down on - PSU/Cooler/Cabby. Chalo lock kiya jaye.
Cheers
Prime at lammy is the best & most reliable .... rest I dunno (Mahavir was good for me & I used them way back in 2003-05 :yawn
. Moving out from here..... lolSo have you narrowed down on - PSU/Cooler/Cabby. Chalo lock kiya jaye.
Cheers
Prime at lammy is the best & most reliable .... rest I dunno (Mahavir was good for me & I used them way back in 2003-05 :yawn
I am not an expert on Lamington Road shops, Prime ABGB is the only shop I have dealt with and can recommend without any hesitation; they are reputed to have a very strong service end of things as well.
smallLuxGPU 2.0d4 -- It is a benchmark for the compute prowess of the card, it does not affect the gaming performance although I have read the image quality can be ascertained from this benchmark. Not very sure on this point, so no comments.
I suggest that you go for the HD7950 3GB edition OR nVidia GTX670 for your purposes, the stated prices for the GTX660Ti are too expensive to justify on it. This is because the HD7950 and the nVidia GTX670 are more future proof, with better memory bandwidth breakdowns and AMD simply owns everything when it comes to a multi-monitor setup and hence with improvements in texture quality I think future performance of the same will also remain rock-solid.
For AMD the companies you can look towards are --> Sapphire, HIS, MSi and ASUS.
For nVidia the companies I will recommend are --> ASUS, ZOTAC!, MSi and eVGA.
Hope this helps, Cheerio!
harry_houdini
Contributor
oops..... mate "Gaming and those krazy GPU's" not my zone (I'm into solitaire & scrabble ONLY :scared14
So have you narrowed down on - PSU/Cooler/Cabby. Chalo lock kiya jaye.
Cheers
Prime at lammy is the best & most reliable .... rest I dunno (Mahavir was good for me & I used them way back in 2003-05 :yawn
Thanks ,
Yes PSU : TX 850 / HX 750 whatever is available . TX is a priority here , hope the bronze of the TX vs the Silver of the HX wont be much when translated to electricity bills . Mr Chirag says there will hardly be a difference of Rs 100 / month , so taking his word for it .
Case : 400r / 500r
Cooler : CM 212 evo or H100 . Considering 212 evo because the h100 is not in stocks I guess . Also the 212 evo seems to be a nice cooler for the 3570k as per reviews . @ALPHA17 can have a definitive say in this matter because he has owned this cooler .
Availibility is a big problem man ! . One day things are available , other day not , then might not be available for a month , its a headache .
Yup Prime is in first consideration , thats why asked Mr Chirag but he is busy
, lets hope he gets free in a couple of days .- - - Updated - - -
What would you choose between the HD 7950 and the GTX 670 and why ? . That was what I was looking for , that will clear things .
All those companies provide good support , support includes both , driver support and after sales support , I guess driver is from amd and nvidia , so which companies provide best after sales support ? .
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If you are going for a standard air-cooler and want to go anywhere close to 4.0GHz+ on the Core i5 3570k I suggest that you take a beefy cooler like the following in hand over the Spartan 212 EVO --
- Cooler Master V6GT
- Thermalright Silver Arrow
- Noctua NH-U12P SE2
- Deep Cool Assassin
Between the HD7950 and GTX670 I will throw my weight behind the AMD HD7950 3GB --
- Larger V-RAM [3GB vs. GTX670's 2GB] will come handy as the days go by and better graphic engines and textures are fielded.
- proven over-clocker, get the first ~100MHz -->175MHz without altering the stock voltage, great for the daily run.
- great Compute performance which is driver independent unlike nVidia which has castrated its own cards GPU performance with the Forceware drivers.
- availability in a variety of flavours for all price ranges between ~25500/- -->30000/-.
For AMD cards with a great support network --> Sapphire, GIGABYTE and MSi.
For nVidia it will be --> MSi, ZOTAC! and GIGABYTE.
Hope this helps, Cheerio!
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If it's gonna be air-coolers then, check out these two from Noctua. Both were/are available (on and off) at Prime. Somehow, I have never seen them recomended on TE ....... any reasons ?
Both the above are relatively recent additions to Noctua's stable and took off from the much acclaimed NH-U12P SE2. Both incorporate a radical C-Type design and apart from doing it's job very well, then also offer secondary indirect cooling to various components in it's vicinity on the motherboard.
And regards cabinet, since harry_houdini is going the whole hog. Methinks he's gotta have a cabby wherein he can show off it's fabulous inards to all da gals in town ........ a bloomin see-thru window at it's sides :sign40:. Of course the usual .... good air-flow (Marilyn Monroe need it too naaa), and excellent (or decent) build quality (a la Rakhi Sawant) :bleh: ..... and for that we have
NZXT Phantom 410 Crafted (Gun Metal Edition) ..... Rs 6750 with usb 2 x 3.0 + 2 x2.0 & 3 fans (incl
1 140mm); detachable HDD trays & 1 Fan can be fitted on HDD tray for GPU + MB cooling
or
NZXT Tempest 410 Elite .......... Rs 5150
Would love your inputs ALPHA17; Jakob ......
- Noctua NH-C12P SE14 ...... (single fan) Rs 4150
- Noctua NH-C14 ........... (two fans) Rs 5400
Both the above are relatively recent additions to Noctua's stable and took off from the much acclaimed NH-U12P SE2. Both incorporate a radical C-Type design and apart from doing it's job very well, then also offer secondary indirect cooling to various components in it's vicinity on the motherboard.
And regards cabinet, since harry_houdini is going the whole hog. Methinks he's gotta have a cabby wherein he can show off it's fabulous inards to all da gals in town ........ a bloomin see-thru window at it's sides :sign40:. Of course the usual .... good air-flow (Marilyn Monroe need it too naaa), and excellent (or decent) build quality (a la Rakhi Sawant) :bleh: ..... and for that we have
NZXT Phantom 410 Crafted (Gun Metal Edition) ..... Rs 6750 with usb 2 x 3.0 + 2 x2.0 & 3 fans (incl
1 140mm); detachable HDD trays & 1 Fan can be fitted on HDD tray for GPU + MB cooling
or
NZXT Tempest 410 Elite .......... Rs 5150
Would love your inputs ALPHA17; Jakob ......
Jakob
Explorer
The Noctua NH-C12P SE14 wasn't suggested cause it performs same/Little better to NH U12P SE2 and C12P is the new launch,Will keep in mind.About the case harry should've got Nzxt Temptest 410 Elite-4.5k if he'd picked it up from prime yesterday,It's a good case he can go for it,It has 2 Front fans and 1 Rear fan installed also the transparent side panel gives a nice look.Harry if you'd started the thread today then you would've gotten HD8XXX series gpu.
harry_houdini
Contributor
Thanks
Loved this post :hail:.
Well the primary reason I loved the 500R is the big side fan , its very very important to cool the the components near the cpu socket and that fan would do it directly ! .
Also if you do not cool those capacitors , they can also hold off some of your overclocking capability .
Also Will cool the huge GPU am going to put in there .
My primary requirement with the cabinet is functionality then show off
. I have read about using airflow for indirect cooling , but am no cabinet air cooling expert , so if someone has some idea please share .
What do you guys think , a side fan helps that much or am over estimating its capabilities .
For that I was ready to sacrifice the crappy dust resistance in the 500R .
The Noctua NH-C12P SE14 wasn't suggested cause it performs same/Little better to NH U12P SE2 and C12P is the new launch,Will keep in mind.About the case harry should've got Nzxt Temptest 410 Elite-4.5k if he'd picked it up from prime yesterday,It's a good case he can go for it,It has 2 Front fans and 1 Rear fan installed also the transparent side panel gives a nice look.Harry if you'd started the thread today then you would've gotten HD8XXX series gpu.
Thanks ,
Hi there well I did not get that HD 8xxx part :scared14: , I thought they were going to be released in Jan . If there is an early release please tell me .
Seeing it from a different angle , I guess your trying to say that the amount of time I took to decide , those cards might be out till now , lol I think this is what you meant .
Whats your suggestion about the GPU ?
Any reason the tempest elite is a better cab than the 400/500R ?
Jakob
Explorer
Yes it was the joke you really would've gotten HD8XXX series GPU,You can go for either cabinet,The Temptest 410 has one extra fan than 400R but every case has its advantage you won't be harmed by any one.
harry_houdini
Contributor
Thanks , hehe doesnt matter , new GPU models are released on a half yearly basis by AMD and Nvidia combined , as Alpha has said and otherwise I ve read , GPU should be expected to last a maximum of 3 years , that what I am looking for here . Am leaning a lot on the GTX 670 but the HD 7950 has some advantages at the moment over the 670 but in gaming the 670 is better in the games I play the most .
This is the heart of everything for me because gaming is the one of the main reasons am buying the PC .
I was in love with the 200mm side fan of the 500R until I checked many users feedback & ruled it out. Now as I would look at things - I would wish to have a cabinet where
- the HDD's racks are detachable (not the trays alone)
- option of adding 1/2 fans to the inner sides of the HDD racks see Overclock3D :: Review :: NZXT Phantom 410 "Gun Metal" Edition Review :: Up Close: Interior
My personal dream cabby would be the NZXT Switch 810 (with a white interior), it's got all that one could imagine but at 10.6K ..... well, well, well:unsure:
harry_houdini
Contributor
Thanks ,
whats the problem with the side fan , sorry not able to find anything on google . May be sleep effect
. The 810 is truly awesome but the price
. But then if I could afford a 10.5k cabinet , then I would add some bucks more and go for the CM Stryker .- Status