Hot Debate : Unicorn or Pulsar?

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My vote for a decent commuter goes for the Unicorn. I've ridden both the Pulsar 150dtsi v1 and the Unicorn - the Uni is butter smooth. Stress free, decent handler and Honda build quality is second to none.
The Achiever is the Uni with a different clothing and cycle parts. But then cannot expect much from HH either.
As regards TVS, they should have launched the Fiero ( f2 atleast ) with 5 gears - it really needs a 5th gear. I just hope they get it right with the new model.
Please desist from fitting a wider rear tyre unless you have boosted power so much. A wider tyre might give better cornering grip, but makes the steering that much slower. From my experience, all of the Indian made bikes have had adequate grip. Grip is heavily dependent on the compound used to make the tyre. I guess the Uni comes shod with MRF Zappers which IMO offers very good grip on dry tarmac.
And wrt the alloy wheels, the best I've seen so far are the ones that come OE on the Karizma.
 
@Vignesh- Spot on pal. Now thats a senior Bangalore boy who knows his RUBBER!!:)
I hope you don't mind the senior thing- i meant seniority, not old as in ME!! He he he..:rofl:

@Caayotee- I really am starting to become a fan of yours!! What bike do you own?? And where you from??:hap2:

@nikhil- i respect your opinion and enthusiasm totally!!:hap2:
So do not fell bad. I will explain what i meant!!:cool2:

ALLOY WHEELS-
I am pleased to meet the son of an Aura Distro, seriously!! Aura is one of the best(Best in India as per me) Alloy wheel manufacturer in India!!:hap2:
Aura is the one by Hindalco, isn't it?? Awesome Quality!! But can we compare them too OZ or BBS??:huh:
In fact we can't even compare a WRC BBS to Schumacher's BBS!!:no:

But the point we talking on is Bikes in India!!:@

Karizma has the best wheels IMHO, Bajaj is good too!!
If we can cannibalise these to fit our bikes, then OK!!
But please recommend me the name of any other brand of Good alloy wheels for a bike??:huh:

Now, if Alloy wheels for bike are so strong then why restrict them to MotoGP and WSBK and the likes only??:huh:
Why don't we see them in Motocross or trials or Enduro or Baja1000 or Paris-Dakar??:huh:
The rims in these are Al alloy too but spoked!!:ohyeah:
Coz i think they absorb impact better!!:ohyeah:
To check with what i say, ride a bike with spoked wheels for a week and then shift to Alloy wheels on the same bike without altering your suspension set up!!
You will instantly notice a difference. Do let me know if you try it!!
And the important point- Try it On Mumbai's roads, not Bangalore!!
The roads are so good here that i am thinking of starting a Paris-Dakar here itself!! he he he..:rofl: :rofl:
 
DISC BRAKES-
Pulsar has always had very good brakes, made by Kalyani brakes ltd. in Tech collab.( i hope its a collab. and not a copy) with Brembo, Italy!!
Brembo is a top manuf and supplier of Braking systems to top bike manufs.!!
But don't we all know, as in chipsets, it is the implementation that matters and here is where things get a little awry!!:no:
Pulsars had too much bite for their own good which led to quite a few mishaps!!
Especially taking into consideration, how skilled the general biking junta is!!
Some of us were making the most of it- popping Stoppies- most of these couldn't be called stoppies but were braking gone wrong.
Well the trick was- if an unwanted stoppie, act as if it was intentional!! He he he... And people start looking up to you as a serious Rider!! LOL...

Karizma's Lack proper feedback- True but they are sure and safe!! The problem- they used CBZ callipers but larger Rotor!! So the braking is even more progressive!! Maybe they wanted to prevent naive riders from outbraking themselves, coz those Front fairings sure look expensive enough to replace!! LOL...
But certain Tuners abroad prefer a larger perimeter disc to Two smaller radial discs on their street versions of track bikes for the same reason!!
CBZ has best Front Braking till date, IMHO!!

I will just quote one less known fact- Within 6 months of launch of the First non-DTSi Pulsars, Bajaj Released Spares for the master cylinder!! That too available at every spare parts shopp!!:S
I was bewildered, aghast!! Till date i hadn't seen or heard a single CBZ come in with a front brake problem!! Forget Sportbikes!!:ohyeah:
In fact i wasn't so amused when my friend who owned one of the first P180s in Mumbai complained of Front brake probs!!

Well, the piston in the master cylinder, a stressed and sliding member, of Pulsars is made of PolyPropylene!!
HERO HONDA uses BRASS for the same!!
o wonder they fade out faster in Pulsars, especially in the cut and thrust traffic of Mumbai!!
So either the brake refuses to work or gives in so easily that you are taken by surprise!! Leading to sudden, unexpected braking action!!
And Forget Track racing, it is Definitely not what you want when racing on streets!!:no:

If you have to provide wonderful technology and styling, you have to cut costs somewhere!! How about Quality, eh??
Isn't that playing with our life, or should i say limbs??:rofl:
Thats one of the reasons i do not prefer bajaj, unless i am looking forward to an Economiser!! The CT100 Rules!!:clap:
 
I agrree that Honda didn't launch the ES version initially!!
And its quite plain!! But Honda played it safe!!:)
But they didn't try to hide the fact that they planned to launch it soon!!:hap2:
Their's was a well planned launch after studying the indian market well!!
Most of the P150s sold were bought by those who needed a fuel efficient bike and could have very well bought a Caliber or Wind Or Even a 4S!!
But they succumbed to the Pulsars charm!!
So if you check with Bajaj, they will point ut that the most Pulsars sold till date are P150s and that too without ES!! and even they were not too happy as it created competition for it own worse!!
Like the Swift botched up Zen and WagonR sales!!
Thats how people squeezed in the P150 by compromising on the ES!!
Guess some would have compromised on the front disc, had it not been standard fitment!!:rofl:
P180 production survives on P150 and CT100 and now Discover sales!!
 
phew....thats one exhaustive report there..bikey! And ur right...the CBZ has awesome braking power! One of my close friends keeps saying that he would be dead 10 times over if it werent for the CBZ's disks..lol.

Now, speaking about fairing, its true that engine covers restrict ventilation n all...but thats speakin about crappy cheap plastic fairing!

U should see some after-market fairing panels from companies like ZZ for the karizma. These a expensive, but they hav directed air slots so that the wind is forced onto the engine.

One of the juniors in my coll has an excellent example of it, fitted to his 'zma.
Will ask him for a fotoshoot soon :P
I have a query here...just how expensive are the K&N filters?
And how effective are they?
 
@Nikhil- these posts are specially for you!!
Do enlighten me!!
BTW, How many Kms on the clock till date??

Your take on Handling is ...!! I have nothing to say!!:cool2:
Handling was so good that people were trying To Cut sharper corners?? LMAO...:rofl:
Have you progressed to your current bike from the older Pulsars??
Try it out pal!!:ohyeah:
Have you heard of an Indian Manuf upgrading unless forced to!!:rofl:
Emessions compliance iwould have been ignored too if not forced!!:@
So the continuous change in wheelbase and suspension setup is not because they want to give you a better bike but coz they want to erase out older probs and complaints!!:rofl:
Me and my pal used to TVS factory modded shoguns!! He bought one of the 1st P180s and we took turns riding it to PUne, once it finished 1500kms on the Odo!!
We always ride Sigle unless commuting and since his shogun had been sparingly used because of the p180, we took it along instead of my baby!!
On the way back, we were fighting for the Shogun!!:rofl: :rofl:
Wel it wasn't that bad but we did feel something amiss while cornering at 100 and above!! also the Tail felt loose under Hard braking, something The shoguns always had!! So was quite manageable!!
And this worsened as the bike aged!!
The newer bikes are better definitely in handling but i find their engine and material quality suspect! IMHO!!:cool2:

Have you heard of a steering damper in any indian bike till date!!
Another first from Bajaj!! Why??
Coz the steering was not right in the first place!!
That too a Friction type damper!!
So once its worn out and loose, God save you!!
Thats why the unnerving headshakes at 100 and above, forcing the sane rider to back off!!
Then the damper disappers on the new DTSi but a longer wheelbase!!
Now, even longer wheelbase, stiffer rear shock absorbers and 17" wheels!!
Bajaj knows what next!! LOL...

The engine in the pulsars is rubber mounted!! This does damp vibrations transmitted to the chassis but they wear out unevenly, leading to undue vibration and imbalance while hard cornering!!
 
Do not want to comment on switchgear!!
You wouldn't prefer one bike over another just because it has better swicthgear!! It can be replaced with something better always!!
And not that i think Bajaj has best switches!! Damn these Auto mags!!
I miss the honest, no nonsense reporting of C&BI!!
 
0-60!! matters when you r trying to show off and none of the other guys at the signal are interested!! Else daytime commuting is more of comfort and saving at the pump!!:)
If you are out for a ride late at night, i guess the in-gear roll-ons and top gear acceleration matter much more!!:ohyeah:
Since i haven't been riding now and i haven't tried the unicorn, i shouldn't comment!!:(
Pulsar should be better with its short gearing and smaller wheels!!
Top speed is a few kmph here and there!!:huh:
What matters to me is not where or what top speed you get to but how fast you do that!!
Acceleration/Thrust rule!!:ohyeah:
No wonder we preferred our shoguns to my RX or Shaolin or Fiero(f1)!! Nothing Stock BTW!!;)

And my friend rides to work inspite of having a car!! And he does 70+ odd kms everyday!! Thats why he shifted to a pulsar180 as it was fast enough but gives 40+ as against the 25kmpl our shoguns gave!!:ashamed:
Damn The price of crude!!:@

Take care everyone!!:)
 
Now we know why you're called Bikenstein :D.

Hmm..so the normal wheels are better than alloy wheels for city riding??

Then I guess I'll have to go with the normal wheels.

I have postponed buying my bike and will only buy a bike after Mr.Bikenstein recovers fully and is in a position to ride a bike and post some more pages of amazing stuff and after thoroughly reviewing the bike I wish to buy.

I bow to thee Mr.Bikenstein.

Get well soon :D.

Regards,

DC.
 
@Bikey ---- As I have been saying, my posts are from personal experience of riding a DTSi and knowing 4 others with Pulsars. One with a non-ES 150(the old model) and the others have 150 DTSi and another guy has a 180DSTi. Nonne of us had brake problems. The old 150 has done in excess of 17K kms. My 180 and another guys 150 has done in excess of 8K kms. The other 2 Pulsars are newer(dunno how much exactly). No BRAKE problems AT ALL. And I did drive the Karizma before I bought my P180 and I hated the brakes. That is my personal view.

I prefer proper feedback from a brake and yes, it is quite sharp but you can always adjust to that. I cannot adjust to a brake which ahs no feedback.

And abt the vibrations.... 2 of us have crossed 100 on a highway outside bangalore and we felt extremely comfortable(relatively... how much comfy can you be at 110kmph?? :P) at 110kmph. We ddid not feel any undue vibrations or anything. The vibrations at that speed may be more than the vibrartions from a Karizma or something at that same speed. I do not know but it was not so bad that we felt like losing control. The only reason we stopped at 110kmph was because of traffic and it had started to rain.

Abt the alloys
WHEELS AND WHY THEY MATTER!

* Wheel quality and strength are very important, and often overlooked.

* Aluminum alloy wheel rims are a vitally important safety feature on bikes with hand brakes because they’ll stop TEN TIMES FASTER WHEN WET than steel rims can! (As reported in Consumer Reports magazine)

* Aluminum alloy wheel rims are lighter, more rigid, often stronger than steel rims, and their lighter rolling weight makes them “push” or pedal easier.

* Steel wheel rims are okay on less expensive youth bikes with foot, coaster brakes.

* Count the number of spokes on wheels. In general, the higher the number of spokes, the stronger the wheel. Usually, 32 to 48 spoke wheels are the strongest. (NOTE: Some expensive mountain bike wheels use very strong, double-wall rims and fewer spokes to reduce wheel weight but maintain strength.)

* Many “toy-store” bikes use cheap, weak wheels with fewer spokes that are much easier to damage, and are often not repairable.

* One piece, machined hubs (the middle-part of a wheel that the spokes radiate from) are dramatically more durable than cheap, pressed fit hubs. Better hubs also make the bearings and axles roll smoother and last longer.

* On some youth-market bikes you will find molded “mag” wheels that are usually made of various plastics, carbon fibers, and resins. They are very strong, a little heavier than aluminum wheels, and a good idea for rougher children. There is not (as some kids think!) a problem with “mag” wheels cracking.
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http://www.bikesrnottoys.com/wheelDiffs.htm

Wheels:

Alloy Wheels:

All good bikes will have aluminium alloy wheel rims.¤ They are lighter, don't rust and the brakes work much more efficiently than with steel rims.

Stainless Steel Spokes:

A mark of quality. Stainless steel spokes are not any lighter than the cheaper galvanised ones, but they do look better and don't rust.

Double-butted Spokes:

Like double-butted tubing, these are thinner in the middle where the extra metal is not needed. They are lighter and are stronger than the normal ones (called 'straight gauge').
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http://www.bluedome.co.uk/MoutainBiking/ideal/jargonbuster.html#a2

These are just 2 references I found on the very first page og the google search.

Another one --- http://www.indiacar.com/index2.asp?pagename=http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/wheels.htm

So you see..... Alloys are better. Now dont ask me why dont they use it on Endurance races.

And abt the ES. When you expect Honda to launch their first 150cc bike in India, launching them without ES is reall disappointing. But anyway that is not the matter now. They have an ES now finally.

And I know that 0-60 matters. Wheere did I say that 0-60 does not matter?? I have been in many traffic light GPs myself and 0-60 is the most important. Very rarely do you get to go more than 80 between traffic lights :P

And yeah, switchgear is not the most important thing. But I just pointed it out coz someone else mentioned that Bajaj switchgear is not upto the mark of the others.

And yeah..... The Pulsar tail has a tendency to step out ofmline under hard braking. But I have liked that :D Call me an ass if you will :P I dontknow why but I hae always been able to control it. Maybe coz I have not done any reall really hard braking from 80 or so. I could control on those few occassions it stepped out of line.
 
@bikey - thanks for the info man, another 2stroke addict I presume?
argus_smith said:
U should see some after-market fairing panels from companies like ZZ for the karizma. These a expensive, but they hav directed air slots so that the wind is forced onto the engine.
Click to expand...
Why add extra weight to an already overweight bike?

I have a query here...just how expensive are the K&N filters?
And how effective are they?
Click to expand...
I would prefer using the UNI foam pods to the K&N paper/mesh filters. The foam pod isn't restrictive and filters well even under wet conditions. There are lot of shootouts done comparing the effectiveness of a foam filter vs paper element.
Remember this, if you increase air flow, you will need to feed in more fuel. Else your a/f ratio will go leaner and the motor will overheat and seize. Keep in mind to upjet after making any attempt to "free-flow" the airbox.
 
the final look is worth the performance loss because of the added weight...
u wont realize that its a 'zma without takin a second look at it:P
 
I have a query here...just how expensive are the K&N filters?

And how effective are they?
Click to expand...

There has been a detailed review about a K&N filter fitted and modded Pulsar 180dtsi in BSMOTORING...check their website bsmotoring.com as i dont really remember the mag issue in which it appeared... but the results werent very satisfactory as the bsm mechanic swrewed up the carb jet settings and the 180 was drinking much more than usual...

the thing is that its always better to keep the techicals untouched moreso if ur bike is in warranty:P or atleast get it done from a reputed mech as it cud adversely affect performance...

@Argus:the final look is worth the performance loss because of the added weight...

u wont realize that its a 'zma without takin a second look at it
Click to expand...

Quiet true...:ohyeah:..and the covering hardly adds up enough weight to reduce performance noticeably...looks like million bucks though.. :)

@Nikhil:
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bro,you got me convinced about the alloys..genuine ones that is.. so does aura make 2wheeler alloys too...if yes, how much wud an 18" pair cost ?

Any other good brand tht u know about?

@BIKeINSTEIN:
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thanks for all the info u gathered...man, u are one...mechanic...haha..just jokin..:ohyeah: keep up the good work..

Pardon me..i'm here after a lot many days so i dont really know what happened to you...i heard u are on bed rest..wots up pal...?

I hope u get well soon and yeah... ride safely...:)
 
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@DC- i said for a few months:) !!
Me not sure if i will be able to walk without crutches, forget riding:( !!
But that does not mean that i won't be trying it;) !! He he he...:rofl:
And i know a few others, who ride sensibly, understand the machine they are using and whose opinion i can count on:hap2: !!
I was also doing testrides from the pillion seat before my recent surgery:rofl: :rofl: !! In fact the Uni and VictorGLX125 hav been tested with me in pillion and the rider following my commands!!:rofl:
Poor pal of mine- obliging for friendship sake!!:ashamed:

BTW, where you from??
 
@Nikhil- your Google search is a total Googly pal!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

What you posted is absolutely true but do check the context!!:cool2:
WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT BICYCLES HERE!!

Though the same extends to MOTORCYCLES with a few application oriented changes!!:)

BIKE is a loosely used word!!
For us Indians, it is a motorcycle!!:)
World over its used to denote Bicycles!!:rofl:

Won't go into details but-
assuming you rode a CYCLE as a kid-:cool2:

try rubbing your finger on wet steel and wet aluminium!! Obviously grips better on Al.
They are talking about the rubber pads at the end of Bicycle brake callipers not gripping properly on wet steel rims!!
But any kid who has ridden his CYCLE in the rains knows that!!
I used to ride to school on my Bike- as in bicycle; and to college on my Bike- as in Motorcycle!! Irrespective of the weather!! BTW, my college was 100kms from home, one way!!:cool2:

Lighter the wheel of the BICYCLE, easier to pedal it!! thats a no brainer, i guess!!:P

Now analyse the other statements in the same context!!
 
@Caayotee- i have not gathered a single bit of info, just for posting it here!!:cool2:
This is accumulated since my BICYCLE riding days!! Yes, was always the Two-wheeler types!!:P
Have worked at a few garages and authorised two-wheeler workshops just for the love of bikes, NO PAY, just unlimited access to factory manuals, tools, training camps, Insider info...AH!! the works!!:hap2:

Met with a bad accident in 2002!! three surgeries till date!! Alternating bet bed rest and crutches since then!! Living to ride... once again!!
Watch out- the Ghostrider cometh!! Muhuaha ha ha ha...:rofl:
 
Lol ppl am back, sorry for not posting for a long time.. since am in a hurry I havent gone through all the posts in this thread, but I myself *was* in this dilemma about 3 months ago... but I went ahead and bought the unicorn, I rip most of the times, do 80-100kmph very frequently but still my bike returns 52kmpl.. its more refined, smoother, reliable, just go ahead and buy it.. you wont regret it..
 
BIKeINSTEIN said:
@Caayotee- i have not gathered a single bit of info, just for posting it here!!:cool2:
This is accumulated since my BICYCLE riding days!! Yes, was always the Two-wheeler types!!:P
Have worked at a few garages and authorised two-wheeler workshops just for the love of bikes, NO PAY, just unlimited access to factory manuals, tools, training camps, Insider info...AH!! the works!!:hap2:

Met with a bad accident in 2002!! three surgeries till date!! Alternating bet bed rest and crutches since then!! Living to ride... once again!!
Watch out- the Ghostrider cometh!! Muhuaha ha ha ha...:rofl:
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hehehe finally a biking fanatic on the site:P.. hey buddy if u arent a member of Xbhp id suggest u should take a llook at it.. www.xbhp.com - largest biking club on india.

not too deviating from the topic.

TVS has a very good competition to the pulsar. with the new Apache having the looks and the performance to beat the pulsar.. as all know here so far the pulsar150 (p150) has no competition. until the tvs apache hits the roads. anyways its light, and has a shorter wheelbase and the best power to weight ratio, next to the beamer. comes with a 17inch alloys upfront with 18inch at the back.
everything for a price of 52k-54k.

But bajaj has something up their sleeve too. Come this auto expo in delhi 12th jan onwards if im right.. new pulsar 150 should be revealed also the next big bike may i say the karizma beater and probably good competition to the comet gt250 by the bajaj 200cc+ 20+/- bhp bike is supposed to be revealed at the show. expect a price of 90K +/- for the same.

As far as unicorn is concerned.. its a very good bike indeed. a smooth and refined engine with probably the best gearbox. Achiever carries the same engine. HH is using unicorn's engine cuz unicorn didnt sell in numbers like the pulsars did.. so honda is using HH to take care of their needs and as we all know HH's R&D consists of only the stickering department. which sucks more than the company on the whole itself.

God save HH when its ties break up with honda. And as u know even the karizma carries the Honda CRF250 22bhp detuned to 17 bhp engine.. i cant really wait till the JV breaks up.. and bajaj and tvs is laughin out loud at Hero Motors!!!

Also lastly expect a 160cc or higher from tvs as a stiff competition to the p180 in march.. and as far as the biking community is concerned.. and here i mean the enthusiasts only not commuters.. were in for a awesome year with lots of new goodies coming our way..

cheers.
 
BIKeINSTEIN said:
@CaaYoTee- i have not gathered a single bit of info, just for posting it here!!:cool2:

This is accumulated since my BICYCLE riding days!! Yes, was always the Two-wheeler types!!:P

Have worked at a few garages and authorised two-wheeler workshops just for the love of bikes, NO PAY, just unlimited access to factory manuals, tools, training camps, Insider info...AH!! the works!!:hap2:

Met with a bad accident in 2002!! three surgeries till date!! Alternating bet bed rest and crutches since then!! Living to ride... once again!!

Watch out- the Ghostrider cometh!! Muhuaha ha ha ha...:rofl:
Click to expand...

Feel really bad about it,man..i just hope you get well soon...But i am really inspired by your determination..definitely u'll live long and ride that much longer!!:hap2:

Though i've been a bike fanatic since times immemorial...i didnt have the privilege to see factory manuals..had to rely on auto magazines which i've been religiously collecting since 1995...ten long years of automobile mania!!

Back then the only magazines i cud get hold of were Indian Auto and Auto India!!

@KwokFist: HH is using unicorn's engine cuz unicorn didnt sell in numbers like the pulsars did..
Click to expand...

I agree Unicorn didnt sell in numbers like the pulsars but nevertheless it has been a steady seller(and is still selling) and you can see a good number of 'em on the roads.. One more reason you see more pulsars on the roads in because they have been there for almost 4 yrs now whereas Uni is only a year old..

I think Honda have taken on indian two wheeler market with a long term plan and the Uni is definitely going to stay there for a long time as it has been very well recieved and accomodated in the 150cc class market...:)
 
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