blr_p
Pilgrim
lolz, i have to keep reminding myself that such emotinal swings are normal behaviour for his age group
Android I bought the new... Sony Xperia Z1
- Thread starter comp@ddict
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TheIndian
Forerunner
blr_p
Pilgrim
I'm a noob when it comes to photography but what little i've learnt so far is its more important to know how to take a photo. Then learn how to operate the equipment. People complaining expect miracles with point & shoot that even pros cannot achieve. How light works, simple to say much harder to understand. If the camera cant do low light then figure out a way to get more light. That it. If there is to much light then knock the exposure down so you don't overblow the highlights.@blr_p, it's not that 4UP is wrong or right, but the quality of pictures is not so satisfactory (as complained by some of the HTC one users) I'm not a tech guy for the cams so don't know much about it but they said in low lights the pics were good/ok but in bright lightand who wants to wait for 4 secs after taking a single shot. Camera Lag is of past even on my Note2.
The xperia forums are full of people complaining about the camera, does not matter which model. What are they complaining about ? the auto shoot is not good. Then the more experienced people start putting stuff up taken with manual settings and there is a signficant difference. So its not the camera that cannot do the job but the operator does not know or want to know how to take a better photo. What compounds this problem is tech reviewers are no different either.
prateekS
Herald
He asked. I wasent "harping".
36 k after discount is still a better deal than 42 for the z1.
comp@ddict
Galvanizer
Guys. I'll post the camera samples tomorrow. Got my phone back after 20 days! 20 DAYS! Apparently there is no defect in the phone.
The images, I'm warning you, will make you want to PUKE! They are so bad.
I feel like crying... Almost tearing up.. 40k of my hard earned money gone down the drain. I can't take photos in normal day to day life. You know why? Because the image is worse than a 2 MP snapper on the back of a 2007 Nokia feature phone (which my mom owned until last month, when i threw it out).
The images, I'm warning you, will make you want to PUKE! They are so bad.
I feel like crying... Almost tearing up.. 40k of my hard earned money gone down the drain. I can't take photos in normal day to day life. You know why? Because the image is worse than a 2 MP snapper on the back of a 2007 Nokia feature phone (which my mom owned until last month, when i threw it out).
TheIndian
Forerunner
You have been harping for a while, on another thread too, and here you are doing it again even though you were told no where its for 32k deal or no deal.
Whether its better or not, is a subjective thing, point is, no one has seen it for 32k
dafreaking
Innovator
Only partially. Though most flagships offer decent cameras we are discussing picture quality and not the quality of pictures. I hope you get what I am saying.
@comp@ddict Post those samples soon.
prateekS
Herald
See thats the problem, u don't read the thread properly and u come and think everyone's harping.
Go back a few pages.
blr_p
Pilgrim
So learn and it isn't difficult if you know what to look for. The harder part is knowing what to look for.
Check out the playlists for light & composition from Mike's channel.
Then get your iphone out and start practicing. Aim for better pictures, very good will come in time.
blr_p
Pilgrim
What criteria will you be using to assess picture quality ?
Blowing up to 100% will show the shortcomings but its a missing the forest for the trees thing isn't it. The only time i think you want to blow up to 100% is to compare picture quality between firmware upgrades on the same phone.
If you get good light, any camera will take a better picture, then you there are tools to sharpen the picture and clean it up and you will have a photo that looks on any screen presently out there. You will be able to print 6x4 photos but you won't be able to print A4 size (requires 8MP).
dafreaking
Innovator
To me as long as it has acceptable grain in low light amongst other things. Close to accurate color re-production when using proper white balance. As I said, almost all flagships give you decent picture quality for web consumption. I don't see a phone replacing my camera for any serious photography, but the it is more than sufficient for the occasional happy snap. if you know what I mean.
blr_p
Pilgrim
So you're saying that sony refused to give a replacement as they found no issue.
Can you post the serial number of your phone, its in the format BH90x, mention the 'x' bit.
Yeah, post your pics. Remember to link to the originals. Actually before you do that, maybe you might want to take a look at these tips and these for better photos. If you follow the evolution of the Z, it also had problems with auto, it took sony about 4 months to fix that with numerous f/w upgrades. Now people are quite happy with it. In the mean time learn to use manual and take your pics at 8MP.
The ironic thing is you skipped the Z in favour of the Z1, but i'm not seeing too much interest from existing Z owners to upgrade to the Z1. A few have but its not a wholesale bolt for the latest & greatest.
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blr_p
Pilgrim
Acceptable grain can be achieved with a longer shutter time ie lower the ISO, you need to hold the phone still to get that. You must be fixed as well as the subject. If either is moving you will get blur. Then you will have to use a fill flash with a faster shutter (know which scene mode to use) to get a sharper photo. CM + focal allows little more control than stock as it exposes more of the camera controls. focal is still in beta but it looks promising.
Colour reproduction is a tricky thing, there is accurate and pleasing. samsung, apple do pleasing, sony tries to do accurate. This sometimes leads to the charge of washed out colours. This is where light plays an important part. Good light better WB, less light and it can go awry, depends how tricky the scene is lighting wise. Many sources of different colours will trip it up.
People have complained about the inability to set a custom white balance. Problem is the phone does not know what white is, a custom white balance allows you to point to something you know as white and then tell it to use that white. There are presets to use to get the white balance closer to the real thing but otherwise the only way is to identify something you know as white in the photo and colour correct in post.
Phone will not replace camera, but you are more likely to have your phone than your camera and this allows many more opportunities when it comes to taking photos.
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dafreaking
Innovator
On my phone camera I don't want to muck around with settings. Great quality at auto is what is required (for me). You think when I want to grab that aha moment I have time to test iut how to expose my shots properly?
blr_p
Pilgrim
And can you get the same with a dslr ? if you don't anticipate and aren't prepared, no you won't. You could get lucky. That's what burst mode is for. Funny thing with burst mode is it can produce some of the cleanest shots because the camera did not have time to process them.
So how quick are you at the draw. Take a simple example at a party, just take a few test shots to calibrate and get the settings right, what wb & mode works best in this particular scene. Then when the opportunity presents itself, you are already prepared. Its actually easier to do this indoors as the light is more or less constant than outdoors with the sun coming & going. Instead of relying on auto.
Otherwise what you want works 50% of the time only. If its in low light then chances are even less.
What i'm saying is as you get to know the scene, light at the scene and your camera, you will be able to get those photos little better by picking the right settings. Those aha moments are in the minority. The bulk of the time you will mostly be in control.
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dafreaking
Innovator
Maybe I didn't write things properly.
Scenario 1: Say a party or something randomly funny on the street or something interesting. Whip out phone (already on auto) take a picture. Done. In this case I would obviously want best IMAGE quality without going into technical details. Hey the only effort I want to make in this case is trying to compose the shot. Not worry about other stuff. 99% of flagships offer this on auto I believe. They only way they could get better is say shots in low light (without flash)
Scenario 2: A little more serious. In this case I would use my DSLR. Why? Because I am absolutely comfortable using it in Manual mode. Heck, I haven't used it on any of the other picture modes ever (Apart from the No Flash mode to see how it adjusts the exposure triangle). Also I prefer manually setting the aperture and ISO.
I hope this made sense. This is my personal view of things...
blr_p
Pilgrim
You will only get it 50% of the time depending on how difficult the lighting was. The other factor is the maturity of the firmware. It will get better with time. Maybe your 50% grows to 70%. And then there is the processing which we have no control over. Some do it more than others, some saturate, sharpen, denoise. You got the photo but by how much can you improve it or not.
Now which phone will give you that ? if they are of the same generation and range its hard to say.
Am i to believe that after 5 shots in a review that they can accurately determine which camera gets it right more often than not. Course not but that's what a lot of these reviews are saying. How they can make predictions on a sample size of 5 or 10 is beyond me.
Your view is quite common, but the way the tech is going i see mobile phone cameras competing with compacts. I see vacation photos of people taken on their phones and cannot believe that's all they used. This used to be safe compact territory a few years ago. The high end phones can already match entry level compacts. Sensors are getting smaller on dslrs. Do you need a full frame sensor any more on a dslr.
I don't have a dslr, if i wanted a more serious shot, then i expect to get it with the phone. i think i can increase the odds of getting a better picture when i'm more in control. In fact you need to know more about photography when you work with limited devices as compared to a dslr.
What can't you do with a phone ? no way to do optical zoom, sensor size is smaller, no aperture control. Flash isn't adequate though this might be addressed sooner than later if projects like iblazr & nova get funding. We've already seen detachable lenses like qx10 & 100. A detachable wifi controlled flash would be much more useful indoors. A program like camera fv-5 gives you up to 30 second exposure times. What happens when a phone sensor eventually allows you to save to RAW ? You can do much more in post than present because you will have more to play around with.
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rdst_1
Juggernaut
I still believe my Pre 3 kicked some serious a** when it came to clicking pics on auto by just whipping out the camera.
Then I realized that it was due to the fact that I used it mostly on my trip to Goa and that turned out to be the discerning factor and not the camera itself.
@blr_p - I wholeheartedly agree with you. A true camera test can only be one when all the variables are the same. But since these aren't lab tests the reviewers(90% of them) will not consider wasting their time on controlling the variables. The reason they give is that is the way it will happen in a real-world scenario, which again is BS. I never gave any thought or time to learn photography but your posts have intrigued me to at least learn the basics. Just hope this doesn't turn into another expensive gadget addiction.
Then I realized that it was due to the fact that I used it mostly on my trip to Goa and that turned out to be the discerning factor and not the camera itself.
@blr_p - I wholeheartedly agree with you. A true camera test can only be one when all the variables are the same. But since these aren't lab tests the reviewers(90% of them) will not consider wasting their time on controlling the variables. The reason they give is that is the way it will happen in a real-world scenario, which again is BS. I never gave any thought or time to learn photography but your posts have intrigued me to at least learn the basics. Just hope this doesn't turn into another expensive gadget addiction.
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